Women need to speak up about birth control

Feb 16, 2012 Full story: The Baltimore Sun 375

Where are the women? In the extreme and ill-tempered debate over the availability of contraceptives for women, we have heard from the president, the bishops of the Roman Catholic Church, the Republican presidential candidates, members if Congress and various talking heads on TV.

Full Story
Door King

Sylvan Grove, KS

#22 Feb 18, 2012
The figure I read was 98 percent of all women. I'd also wager 100 percent of the men used a condom at one time or another, and since it takes two to tango, when the women use birth control, so are the men. I will wager one thing. 100 percent of the priests, unless diseased, are not celebate through their entire careers as this is physically impossible for men. They dream.

Since: Sep 08

Placitas, NM

#23 Feb 18, 2012
kansasguy wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, the facts of previous elections indicate just the opposite....that women do in fact vote Republican. I am afraid that the moderate middle will not realize what they have lost (after voting Republican) until too late.
I really like the question Greg Sargent asks about the current birth control debate, pitting the Republican party and the Catholic bishops against President Obama, most Americans, and even most Catholics (including Republican Catholics).“Is this the GOP's "Terri Schiavo" moment””
.
New poll from Democracy Corps has just published an important polling memo that gets right to the heart of why the birth control battle could matter so much in this year’s elections.

The firm’s poll finds that one of the most important factors powering Obama’s gains against likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney has been the President’s improving numbers among unmarried women, a key pillar of the present and future Democratic coalition.

AMONG THIS GROUP, OBAMA NOW LEADS ROMNEY BY 65-30 — and there’s been a net 18-point swing towards the President among them. Nothing scares unmarried women quite as much as a bunch of old men telling them what to do with their bodies! http://www.democracycorps.com/wp-content/file...

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#24 Feb 18, 2012
Ellie16 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, because when I'm posting on my itouch I can't see if I have PM's until I go to "full site". I do need to meet a friend in a few minutes. I'll check a little later though. Have a nice day.
No problem. Hope you have a great day.

Since: Sep 08

Placitas, NM

#25 Feb 18, 2012
testpattern wrote:
<quoted text>
That Congressional hearing was not over "women's rights to choice about birth control". It was expressly about the Constitutionality of a law requiring the Catholic church and it's entities to indirectly provide for birth control through insurance coverage to it's employees......
Sure that was what the title of the Republicans' dog and pony show was. But even if we PRETEND that was the actual purpose of the GOP-Fox headline grabbing Obama bashing hearing....where were the women in that first panel? Of the nine witnesses Issa originally indicated he would invite, he failed to invite any women. Two rabidly right-wing women were added after the initial outrage.

Women DAMN SURE have opinions and know things a HELL OF A LOT about "Lines Crossed: Separation of Church and State. Has the Obama Administration Trampled on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience?"

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#26 Feb 18, 2012
Door King wrote:
The figure I read was 98 percent of all women. I'd also wager 100 percent of the men used a condom at one time or another, and since it takes two to tango, when the women use birth control, so are the men. I will wager one thing. 100 percent of the priests, unless diseased, are not celebate through their entire careers as this is physically impossible for men. They dream.
Well, it is not "physically impossible" for a man to be celibate. It is extremely difficult and unlikely, though. In fact, I think the celibate rule for the priesthood is not necessary, at least not according to the bible. But as I said before, it is was the Catholic church teaches, and has taught for centuries. It is not as though they get someone into the church and then surprise them years later... "hey, you can't use birth control, we just decided it's bad".

My only point was, and still remains: no matter how many people, either within the Catholic church or from without, disagree with the teaching, it is not the government's business to tell the church they have to do something that violates the church's teachings.

You don't have to agree with their teachings, you may think they are totally off-base and crazy. But as long as their teachings do not cause harm to others, then the government has no ground Constitutionally to tell them they must do otherwise.

Again, people are free to come and go in the Catholic church. If the pope makes a decree you disagree with, you can leave. Yes, I understand the whole "ex-communicated" thing. But if you truly think they are wrong, then why would you care if you are ex-communicated or not? But the big problem is this: you CAN'T just tell the U.S. Government to "f*** off". When they turn their sights from the Catholic church to you, then where will you turn? If you say, "hey, the Constitution doesn't allow you to do this" they are just going to say "apparently the Constitution doesn't matter, because you were okay with what we did to the Catholic church".

I am not saying it is not an incredibly difficult issue. Nothing here on earth is perfect, or ever will be. We get into the most trouble when we try to make the world conform to our own ideas of how it could be made perfect.
Your Ex

Madison, WI

#27 Feb 18, 2012
Women will speak up about birth control
This November
And you can bet that every male politician
that even thought about having an opinion about womens reprductive rights
will be begging for a job
(hand or otherwise)
Obama '12!

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#28 Feb 18, 2012
PlacitasRoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure that was what the title of the Republicans' dog and pony show was. But even if we PRETEND that was the actual purpose of the GOP-Fox headline grabbing Obama bashing hearing....where were the women in that first panel? Of the nine witnesses Issa originally indicated he would invite, he failed to invite any women. Two rabidly right-wing women were added after the initial outrage.
Women DAMN SURE have opinions and know things a HELL OF A LOT about "Lines Crossed: Separation of Church and State. Has the Obama Administration Trampled on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience?"
Read your own post here. Who are you to call anyone "rabid". You sound just as rabidly left-wing. I made what I think was a thoughtful post. Why can't you respond to the points I made, rather than just slinging hateful rhetoric all over the place? Can't you see that you are doing the same thing on the left, that you accuse others of doing on the right?
Dingo

Sacramento, CA

#30 Feb 18, 2012
Up Vote for you
Your Ex wrote:
Women will speak up about birth control
This November
And you can bet that every male politician
that even thought about having an opinion about womens reprductive rights
will be begging for a job
(hand or otherwise)
Obama '12!

Since: Sep 08

Placitas, NM

#31 Feb 18, 2012
testpattern wrote:
<quoted text>
And that's my point. First of all, I have heard that statistic, and it is 98% of members who do not want get pregnant who use birth control. So obviously if those members do not want a pregnancy then they are using birth control. It is not 98% of ALL Catholics, just 98% of those who are trying to prevent a pregnancy that use birth control. So that statistic is very misleading and way off base....
But, lets assume that it is true that nearly all Catholics use contraception. And I would still assume that the true percentage is quite high, I am not naive. The proper response would be for those Catholics to attempt to change the church's position from within. And if they cannot change the position from within, then they should probably consider leaving the change, as Ellie in the post above has done....
The ACCURATE and VALID statistic:



"Among all women who have had sex, 99% have ever used a contraceptive method other than natural family planning. This figure is virtually the same, 98%, among sexually experienced Catholic women." http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-C...

AND: "98% of "sexually experienced" Catholic women have used birth control at some point in their lives and 87 percent of "sexually active" Catholic women who are not pregnant, post-partum or trying to get pregnant are currently using some form of birth control. Also, the data does report whether the women who reported having used birth control at some point in their lives were Catholic at the time they were using it." http://m.christianpost.com/news/white-house-p...

And from Facts on Contraceptive Use in the United States:

"Virtually all women (more than 99%) aged 15–44 who have ever had sexual intercourse HAVE USED AT LEAST ONE CONTRACEPTIVE METHOD.[2]
• Overall, 62% of the 62 million women aged 15–44 are currently using a method.[2]
• Almost one-third (31%) of these 62 million women do not need a method because they are infertile; are pregnant, postpartum or trying to become pregnant; have never had intercourse; or are not sexually active.[2] http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_contr_use.h...

Since: Sep 08

Placitas, NM

#32 Feb 18, 2012
testpattern wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it is not "physically impossible" for a man to be celibate. It is extremely difficult and unlikely, though. In fact, I think the celibate rule for the priesthood is not necessary, at least not according to the bible. But as I said before, it is was the Catholic church teaches, and has taught for centuries. It is not as though they get someone into the church and then surprise them years later... "hey, you can't use birth control, we just decided it's bad".
My only point was, and still remains: no matter how many people, either within the Catholic church or from without, disagree with the teaching, it is not the government's business to tell the church they have to do something that violates the church's teachings.
You don't have to agree with their teachings, you may think they are totally off-base and crazy. But as long as their teachings do not cause harm to others, then the government has no ground Constitutionally to tell them they must do otherwise.
Again, people are free to come and go in the Catholic church. If the pope makes a decree you disagree with, you can leave. Yes, I understand the whole "ex-communicated" thing. But if you truly think they are wrong, then why would you care if you are ex-communicated or not? But the big problem is this: you CAN'T just tell the U.S. Government to "f*** off". When they turn their sights from the Catholic church to you, then where will you turn? If you say, "hey, the Constitution doesn't allow you to do this" they are just going to say "apparently the Constitution doesn't matter, because you were okay with what we did to the Catholic church".
I am not saying it is not an incredibly difficult issue. Nothing here on earth is perfect, or ever will be. We get into the most trouble when we try to make the world conform to our own ideas of how it could be made perfect.
As long as non-profits corporations are sucking at the government teat, employing persons of various religion (or no) affiliations, and employing persons of various religion (or no) affiliations, those employes and 'customers' have the right to 'equal protection' as the employes and customers of every other corporation.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#33 Feb 18, 2012
PlacitasRoy wrote:
<quoted text>
As long as non-profits corporations are sucking at the government teat, employing persons of various religion (or no) affiliations, and employing persons of various religion (or no) affiliations, those employes and 'customers' have the right to 'equal protection' as the employes and customers of every other corporation.
And which "government teat" would that be. You still have not demonstrated how ANY woman employed by ANY Catholic institution is being denied access to contraceptives. "Equal protection" does not mean "equal access". Any employee of a Catholic institution is not being denied access to birth control, and as such ARE "equally protected". You like to post a lot of stuff, but you STILL are not showing me how these employees are being denied access to contraceptives. Having access to contraceptives, and making someone else pay for it, are two VERY different things.
Door King

Sylvan Grove, KS

#34 Feb 18, 2012
"But as long as their teachings do not cause harm to others,"

But they do.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#36 Feb 18, 2012
Door King wrote:
"But as long as their teachings do not cause harm to others,"
But they do.
What harm?
Dingo

Sacramento, CA

#37 Feb 18, 2012
When you wake up, let me know.
.
.
"Equal protection" does not mean "equal access".

.
.
The catholic church and their many businesses are tax exempt.
.
what does that mean to you?
.
testpattern wrote:
<quoted text>
And which "government teat" would that be. You still have not demonstrated how ANY woman employed by ANY Catholic institution is being denied access to contraceptives. "Equal protection" does not mean "equal access". Any employee of a Catholic institution is not being denied access to birth control, and as such ARE "equally protected". You like to post a lot of stuff, but you STILL are not showing me how these employees are being denied access to contraceptives. Having access to contraceptives, and making someone else pay for it, are two VERY different things.
Door King

Sylvan Grove, KS

#38 Feb 18, 2012
The harm given inconsequential human actions by assigning moral values to them. This is our inheritance from Judism, and at the root of many of the ills of society. Rules about sex, for example.
Marie

Lenexa, KS

#39 Feb 18, 2012
testpattern wrote:
<quoted text>

My only point was, and still remains: no matter how many people, either within the Catholic church or from without, disagree with the teaching, it is not the government's business to tell the church they have to do something that violates the church's teachings.
You don't have to agree with their teachings, you may think they are totally off-base and crazy. But as long as their teachings do not cause harm to others, then the government has no ground Constitutionally to tell them they must do otherwise..
That's fine as long as they are basically functioning as just a church, but if they are functioning basically as a business - employing and serving people and making a profit from people who are not Catholics, then they have to follow the rules required of any other business.
Dan

Québec, Canada

#40 Feb 18, 2012
Wow, I did not think that this was still a debate.

Here in Quebec we kicked religion out of our bedrooms. Like my grand father said once to a priest... hey if your willing to support them I will make them for you ;-)

Have you seen the Vatican fork money to help orphans? nope.. that comes from your taxes.

And here when it was the priest or the sisters caring for the orphans, there were massive abuse physically and mentally on the kids... dont recall seing in the bible to beat up or abuse kids that are orphans.

They were so controling that the priest in front of the church was condeming the women that were due for pregnancy putting pressure on them. That is bad.

Religion tried too much to control every aspect of people:
Sex, Schools, Husband / wives way to live.....
Our point of view here is its a way to make the community bigger and bigger.. make babies.

Its ok to beleive in any religion that makes you confortable, but before all:
Your the one raising and caring for the kids not religion so you have all the rights in the world to protect your self till you meet the right person you want to have a familly with.

Religion has no place in a bedroom.
Some will say abstinence... maybe, personally with this type of fast world that focuses alot on performance and openness, open to sex early, shack up after 18-23... abstinance in most places good luck!!

Also.. remember.. most of our grand parents married quick, did not date for a long time and they married very young so abstinence was not that hard compare to today.

Live your sexuality with proper birth control, it does not make you a bad catholic girl at all.

There are worse thing than having sex...
killing, cheating, stealing....

My 2 cents.
Dingo

Sacramento, CA

#41 Feb 18, 2012
Up Vote for you chic.
.
REASON: Not blinded by the nonsense of the religious right.
Marie wrote:
<quoted text>
That's fine as long as they are basically functioning as just a church, but if they are functioning basically as a business - employing and serving people and making a profit from people who are not Catholics, then they have to follow the rules required of any other business.
Dingo

Sacramento, CA

#42 Feb 18, 2012
You got it all wrong.
.
Religion has NO place in "Their" bedroom, but "Your" bedroom IS their concern, the mudder flowkers want to dictate what you can and cannot do.
.
.
Welcome to my planet.
.
Dan wrote:
Wow, I did not think that this was still a debate.
Here in Quebec we kicked religion out of our bedrooms. Like my grand father said once to a priest... hey if your willing to support them I will make them for you ;-)
Have you seen the Vatican fork money to help orphans? nope.. that comes from your taxes.
And here when it was the priest or the sisters caring for the orphans, there were massive abuse physically and mentally on the kids... dont recall seing in the bible to beat up or abuse kids that are orphans.
They were so controling that the priest in front of the church was condeming the women that were due for pregnancy putting pressure on them. That is bad.
Religion tried too much to control every aspect of people:
Sex, Schools, Husband / wives way to live.....
Our point of view here is its a way to make the community bigger and bigger.. make babies.
Its ok to beleive in any religion that makes you confortable, but before all:
Your the one raising and caring for the kids not religion so you have all the rights in the world to protect your self till you meet the right person you want to have a familly with.
Religion has no place in a bedroom.
Some will say abstinence... maybe, personally with this type of fast world that focuses alot on performance and openness, open to sex early, shack up after 18-23... abstinance in most places good luck!!
Also.. remember.. most of our grand parents married quick, did not date for a long time and they married very young so abstinence was not that hard compare to today.
Live your sexuality with proper birth control, it does not make you a bad catholic girl at all.
There are worse thing than having sex...
killing, cheating, stealing....
My 2 cents.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#43 Feb 18, 2012
Dingo wrote:
When you wake up, let me know.
.
.
<quoted text>
.
.
The catholic church and their many businesses are tax exempt.
.
what does that mean to you?
.
<quoted text>
It means they are tax exempt. That exemption is not "taking" anything from the government. They simply are allowed to not PAY tax to the government because they are considered charitable organizations. It does NOT give the government any right to dictate the actions of the Catholic church.

You are the one that needs to wake up. I have said it here over and over an over. And I will keep saying it. The government is NOT your friend. If they are allowed to roll right over the Catholic church in this fashion, what makes you think that your rights will be any safer?

BTW, the first Amendment to the Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF...." Requiring the Catholic church to provide or pay for, either directly or indirectly, contraceptive services, is in direct violation of the tenets of their religion. THAT is prohibiting the free exercise of their religion.

My friend, THAT is a right expressly guaranteed by amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Health care is NOT a right expressly guaranteed by the Constitution. So whose rights are being trampled on here?

Finally, I will repeat AGAIN: NO ONE is being denied access to health care. Any woman or man employed by a Catholic institution is totally free to obtain whatever type of contraceptives they desire.

PLEASE tell me how "rights" are being violated here? Even if health care was a "right", it is NOT the right of an individual to require an institution to PAY for their health care. Health insurance is NOT a right.

You people are treading on VERY dangerous ground, and it is like you just don't care. One day you are going to wake up in a very different country. You make think right now that that would be just great. Because I am sure there are many of you that think things in this country would be better off if people like me were not allowed to say what we think. Most of you probably think I am ignorant, or, as you suggest, "asleep". Sorry, my friend. One day you will wake up to find the rights that YOU cherish being taken away. And you will not have anyone but yourself to blame.

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