Trump, Touring Fire Ruins in Californ...

Trump, Touring Fire Ruins in California, Repeats Disputed Claim on Forest Management

There are 40 comments on the The New York Times story from Saturday Nov 17, titled Trump, Touring Fire Ruins in California, Repeats Disputed Claim on Forest Management. In it, The New York Times reports that:

President Trump walked through the ashes of the Northern California town of Paradise on Saturday, promising to help the state recover but repeating his disputed view that forest management was to blame for the fire, the most destructive in California's history. The president, expressing shock at the scale of the devastation and praising the efforts of emergency workers, offered much more conciliatory words than he had used a week earlier when he accused state officials of mismanaging California's forests and threatened to withhold financial assistance.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The New York Times.

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ol Billybob

Las Vegas, NV

#1 Saturday Nov 17
Should having campfires become a felony offense in Californiaís dry, windy forests?

...

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Fer more'n n'fermation:

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...

WELL? Should having campfires become a felony offense in Californiaís dry, windy forests? HELLO YOU IDIOTS! HELLO!
Fumblementally ill

Philadelphia, PA

#3 Sunday Nov 18
About three quarters of CA land is federal land. Ill Duce Trump is not attacking CA or CA politician's policies as he drearily thinks he is.
OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#4 Sunday Nov 18
There's no disputing the claim. California's forest lands have been chronically mismanaged.

In addition, the progressive democrat government of California has willfully failed to ensure that the state has adequate fire fighting capability to fight these fires.

California has needed a fleet of 100 air tankers now for years. But instead, the progressive democrats in Sacramento spent all the tax dollars on bullet train projects, free solar panels and healthcare and other benefits for illegal aliens.

Obviously, the lives and property of California's legal, tax paying citizens are simply not a priority to the progressives running California (running California into the ground).
The Piper

Manassas, VA

#5 Sunday Nov 18
OccupyThis wrote:
There's no disputing the claim. California's forest lands have been chronically mismanaged.

In addition, the progressive democrat government of California has willfully failed to ensure that the state has adequate fire fighting capability to fight these fires.

California has needed a fleet of 100 air tankers now for years. But instead, the progressive democrats in Sacramento spent all the tax dollars on bullet train projects, free solar panels and healthcare and other benefits for illegal aliens.

Obviously, the lives and property of California's legal, tax paying citizens are simply not a priority to the progressives running California (running California into the ground).
Again you pump out the same nonsense even as the fire chiefs and experts on the scene explain that no amount of human management can prevent disaster like this. These exponential increases in violent dangerous storm systems are a symptom of a rapidly warming planet. We know the causes we know the remedies but some science denying fanatics and religious extremists disagree with the expert consensus. No oine is swallowing your bs any longer.
OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#6 Sunday Nov 18
The Piper wrote:
<quoted text>

Again you pump out the same nonsense even as the fire chiefs and experts on the scene explain that no amount of human management can prevent disaster like this. These exponential increases in violent dangerous storm systems are a symptom of a rapidly warming planet. We know the causes we know the remedies but some science denying fanatics and religious extremists disagree with the expert consensus. No oine is swallowing your bs any longer.
There you go talking out of your backside again.

There are no fire chiefs and "experts" on the scene saying any such thing. What are the "experts" expert in? Basket weaving?

The fact is, California is the only Western state suffering from these devastating fire storms? WHY IS THAT? I'LL TELL YOU WHY YOU IGNORAMOUS. It's because California has done NOTHING for decades in terms of thinning the trees in the forests and removing dead wood over thousands of square miles of wild lands. The forests have to be managed correctly - Ask any REAL EXPERT you stupid leftwing stooge!

Furthermore, Brown and the rest of the progressive corrupt incompetents have had YEARS to divert tax dollars to increasing the state's fire fighting capability. But APPARENTLY, the lives and property of California's LEGAL CITIZENS are not any where near as important as bullet trains, free solar panels, and health insurance and other benefits for ILLEGAL F'N ALIENS.

And it's not climate change you know-nothing nincompoop. The native grasses ALL OVER THE GROUND in California are proof that the entire region has been experiencing periodic drought conditions for hundreds of thousands IF NOT MILLIONS of years. DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS, YOU DUMB ASS?
St Rick Saintpornum

Philadelphia, PA

#9 Monday Nov 19
OccupyThis wrote:
<quoted text>
There you go talking out of your backside again.
Literally 70% of CA's land is federally owned. You are talking about federal responsibilities when you're ignorantly, hyper partisanly attacking CA.

CA has different vegetation than the more desert like states to its east. It has different winds. Even with those differences forest fires have also increased in neighboring states, including WA, CO, UT, ID, and OR, in particular.

You dolt.

"In many cases, the massive wildfires that burned in California, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, British Columbia, and other parts of North America in 2017 exhibited a disturbing trend: a marked increase in the amount of area burned.

"Taking into account geographic variation, the study data focused on fire occurrence, seasonal temperatures, and snowpack. Summer temperatures during fire season, spring temperatures and rainfall, and winter temperatures [and snowpack] were the seasonal climate variables that turned out to be driving the amount of area burned." futurity dot org

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10 Monday Nov 19
St Rick Saintpornum wrote:
<quoted text>

Literally 70% of CA's land is federally owned. You are talking about federal responsibilities when you're ignorantly, hyper partisanly attacking CA.

CA has different vegetation than the more desert like states to its east. It has different winds. Even with those differences forest fires have also increased in neighboring states, including WA, CO, UT, ID, and OR, in particular.

You dolt.

"In many cases, the massive wildfires that burned in California, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, British Columbia, and other parts of North America in 2017 exhibited a disturbing trend: a marked increase in the amount of area burned.

"Taking into account geographic variation, the study data focused on fire occurrence, seasonal temperatures, and snowpack. Summer temperatures during fire season, spring temperatures and rainfall, and winter temperatures [and snowpack] were the seasonal climate variables that turned out to be driving the amount of area burned." futurity dot org
You're right about the Federal land owned in California.Proponents of California seceding
forget this when they talk about the state becoming an independent country.
I'm sure the Federal government would want to be PAID for that land!
In any event,on top of everything else Cali has a water problem.How California solves this water problem in the most populous state in America remains to be seen.
jtkluempers

Henderson, NV

#11 Monday Nov 19
Occupy?

I live in Nevada. The reason these western states are NOT on fire is that no one lives in the boonies

YET

In Cali they do.

It IS that simple. There are about 4-5 million people statewide that live in what would be called "ex-burbs", usually 75-100 miles from the geographic center of LA, SF and SD.

That many people were NEVER meant to live in those areas.

We have a bit less than 2 million people here. There's a town of about 40,000 called Pahrump about 60 miles away, but everyone else lives with 25 miles of the center of the Valley.

If more people lived in the countryside, there'd be fires all the time.
St Rick Saintpornum

Philadelphia, PA

#12 Monday Nov 19
waco1909 wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right about the Federal land owned in California.Proponents of California seceding
forget this when they talk about the state becoming an independent country.
I'm sure the Federal government would want to be PAID for that land!
In any event,on top of everything else Cali has a water problem.How California solves this water problem in the most populous state in America remains to be seen.
Fine, you have agreed Ill Duce Trump is again talking out of his azz on this "CA forest mismanagement" thing. You for once said something correct - that I am correct.

Those water problems, like massive forest fire problems, are hardly limited to CA. A lot of surrounding, R. dominated states, and R. dominated states in the southwest and R. type states in parts of the buybull belt are or have been having or are heading for potable water problems (along with other purple states, depending.) CA has actually been somewhat proactive in addressing the matter.
St Rick Saintpornum

Philadelphia, PA

#13 Monday Nov 19
jtkluempers wrote:
<quoted text>
I live in Nevada. The reason these western states are NOT on fire is that no one lives in the boonies
The states around CA are on fire, if not as badly. You don't know anything.

Now, Nevada has been hit much less than ID, OR, WA, etc., since much of it is desert.
jtkluempers

Henderson, NV

#14 Monday Nov 19
St Rick Saintpornum wrote:
<quoted text>

The states around CA are on fire, if not as badly. You don't know anything.

Now, Nevada has been hit much less than ID, OR, WA, etc., since much of it is desert.
I know that I've lived here for 30 years, and we've had ONE fire that you would call large. And no one died. Because no one lives there.

The desert is covered in shrub. It can burn also. But NO ONE LIVES THERE.

I hear it's going to rain there. That may cause some landslides, but it'll be good for dampening the fires and clearing the air.

NOTHING works as well as rain. Our air here can get pretty crappy, but after a rain, the mountains look like they are in HD.
Enough Already

United States

#15 Monday Nov 19
OccupyThis wrote:
There's no disputing the claim. California's forest lands have been chronically mismanaged.

In addition, the progressive democrat government of California has willfully failed to ensure that the state has adequate fire fighting capability to fight these fires.

California has needed a fleet of 100 air tankers now for years. But instead, the progressive democrats in Sacramento spent all the tax dollars on bullet train projects, free solar panels and healthcare and other benefits for illegal aliens.

Obviously, the lives and property of California's legal, tax paying citizens are simply not a priority to the progressives running California (running California into the ground).
Trumpís brain has never been managed with an ounce of education. Amazing that his parents managed to potty train him.
OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#16 Monday Nov 19
St Rick Saintpornum wrote:
<quoted text>

Literally 70% of CA's land is federally owned. You are talking about federal responsibilities when you're ignorantly, hyper partisanly attacking CA.

CA has different vegetation than the more desert like states to its east. It has different winds. Even with those differences forest fires have also increased in neighboring states, including WA, CO, UT, ID, and OR, in particular.
This is just more disingenuous, out of the ass talk from Progressives.

It was SACRAMENTO as well as other leftwing progressive groups who have prevented the Federal government from managing the federally owned land in California! The State as well as other leftwing know-nothing groups have been constantly SUING the federal government in order to prevent them from thinning federally own forest lands and removing dead wood.

AND OF COURSE OTHER WESTERN STATES HAVE FOREST FIRES YOU HALF-WIT. BUT NONE OF THEM OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE BECOME OUT OF CONTROL FIRE STORMS THAT LEVEL ENTIRE CITIES AND KILL DOZENS OF PEOPLE AND WIPE OUT THOUSANDS OF HOMES - THAT ONLY HAPPENS IN CALIFORNIA - YOU MORON.
OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#17 Monday Nov 19
And less than half of California's wild lands are federally owned - you lying sack of shyte.
OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#18 Monday Nov 19
jtkluempers wrote:
Occupy?

I live in Nevada. The reason these western states are NOT on fire is that no one lives in the boonies

YET

In Cali they do.

It IS that simple. There are about 4-5 million people statewide that live in what would be called "ex-burbs", usually 75-100 miles from the geographic center of LA, SF and SD.

That many people were NEVER meant to live in those areas.

We have a bit less than 2 million people here. There's a town of about 40,000 called Pahrump about 60 miles away, but everyone else lives with 25 miles of the center of the Valley.

If more people lived in the countryside, there'd be fires all the time.
I've been all over this country - including all the western states. There are plenty of people living every where.

The reason other western states do not have devastating fire storms like California is because they are managing their wild lands responsibly - IT'S THAT SIMPLE. But apparently, it's too hard for progressives to fathom.

Other forested countries - like the Scandinavian countries have huge populations and almost NO FOREST FIRES EVER. Why? Because they manage their forests responsibly. IMAGINE THAT...SOCIALISTS WHO CAN PRACTICE RESPONSIBILITY!
St Rick Saintpornum

Philadelphia, PA

#19 Monday Nov 19
jtkluempers wrote:
<quoted text>
The desert is covered in shrub. It can burn also.
The discussion is about "managing forests," not "how many die in forest fires." Because we're discussing what Ill Duce Trump has been claiming. You're simply too stupid to follow what the premise of the debate is.

I looked it up on scatter charts - Nevada is the exception among those states to the north and to the east of CA. The reason is that Nevada is mostly desert. Sparse, desert scrub is not going to cause a massive forest fire. Do I have to 'splain that?

The point I was making is that the right wing complaints about "mismanagement" in CA, which is literally 70% federally owned land, is the usual fake, ignorant sort of complaint. The states around CA are facing similar issues with forest fires (and potable water) yet the slimy, lying, right wing Birthers aren't braying how _those_ states are mismanaged.

Now, CA has some extra challenges with winds and that will make it harder for the feds to manage forest fires on that 70% of CA which is federal land.
OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#20 Monday Nov 19
I have driven all through California's forest lands many times over too.

As an example of California's lack of forest management? In various areas, there is BLM land (federal land) with densely packed pine trees and as much as 3 or 4 meters of dead wood all over the land.

The BLM had been prevented from thinning the trees and removing the dead fuel on the ground by the progressives in Sacramento as well as leftwing progressive groups - I believe including the Sierra Club. The progressives were more concerned with owl habitat and habitat on the ground for small rodents, than they were about forest fires.

This kind of thing only happens in California. About 10 years ago, I happened to be driving through the northern edge of the Tahoe National Forest. I remember thinking, "WOW, there is a lot of dead wood on the ground in this part of the forest - as far as the eye could see in every direction, there was a several foot deep layer of dead wood - tree trunks, huge branches, dried pine needles and other kinds leaves as well as dried, dead bushes and brush everywhere. It was like spreading a 2 meter thick layer of gun powder all over the ground for hundreds of miles in every direction and then just waiting for a spark to ignite the whole thing. And sure enough, less than 2 weeks after I drove through, that same area went up in smoke - and exploded like a bomb!

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#21 Monday Nov 19
St Rick Saintpornum wrote:
<quoted text>

Fine, you have agreed Ill Duce Trump is again talking out of his azz on this "CA forest mismanagement" thing. You for once said something correct - that I am correct.

Those water problems, like massive forest fire problems, are hardly limited to CA. A lot of surrounding, R. dominated states, and R. dominated states in the southwest and R. type states in parts of the buybull belt are or have been having or are heading for potable water problems (along with other purple states, depending.) CA has actually been somewhat proactive in addressing the matter.
Cali is a Democrat dominated state. Their high population requires a lot of water.
Will Cali require federal money to assist in their problems? Likely.
California has indeed mismanaged its forests to a degree,as have many other states,regardless of political affiliation.I don't know why you're so hostile to the "buybull" ;).
Or any person who does not share all your views.
Intolerance indicates fear.
OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#22 Monday Nov 19
waco1909 wrote:
<quoted text> Cali is a Democrat dominated state. Their high population requires a lot of water.
Will Cali require federal money to assist in their problems? Likely.
California has indeed mismanaged its forests to a degree,as have many other states
To solve California's water problem, Gavin Nuisance plans to bring in 50 million additional illegal aliens and then harvest the sweat off their backs to provide the needed water.

And no other states have mismanaged their forest lands. It's only California. That's why all the devastating wildfires on this planet in the last 2 years all occurred in California.

OccupyThis

Lakeport, CA

#23 Monday Nov 19
And notice also that after each disaster - or wave of disasters - that come to pass because of the incompetence and corruption within progressive government - that the progressive solution is always more tyranny and restrictions on personal freedom.

The solution to progressively caused problems is always more progressivism! Thanks to corrupt and incompetent progressives in our government, people - free citizens - are now looking at life in prison for accidently starting a forest fire...if their camp fire or BBQ causes a fire for example. One of California's firestorms was caused by a lady who got a flat tire on the hwy...sparks flew and a fire started that quickly grew into a fire storm. Is this poor lady responsible, or is Governor Brown responsible?

The true cause of these kinds of fires are not free citizens who make a mistake. It's the progressives in Sacramento who are directly to blame.

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