Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173332 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

rider

Ishpeming, MI

#31173 Jun 19, 2012
Delta Kappa Epsilon Famous Dekes
Theodore Roosevelt; Gerald R. Ford; George H.W. Bush; J. Danforth Quayle ...
Joe Paterno (Football Coach, Penn State University); George Steinbrenner ...

http://www.vtdke.com/fraternity/famous-dekes/ - 20k -

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#31174 Jun 19, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
As you should.
Seriously, why would god make his 'word' incapable of being clearly understood even in the multiple languages he supposedly created.
BTW, speaking of multiple languages, didn't god realize that people would quickly overcome his alleged confusion of tongues?
Didn't happen overnight...and we still have problems to this day...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#31176 Jun 19, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't happen overnight...and we still have problems to this day...
We do. It's called bible translations.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#31177 Jun 19, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll take the first two here initially...
I don't understand. If jesus is a god, how could he die? If he is alive, what did he sacrifice? One cannot sacrifice their life and still live! Jesus is fully God and fully man. In this way is how is able to suffer and die. And the sacrifice was being separated from God the Father, His Father, a separation that we all face because of sin. Matthew 27:45-46
"Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Psalms 22:18
"They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture."
In Psalms 22 is revealed God's rejection of Christ because He stands in as representative for man as the second Adam (1st Corinthians 15:22,45) laden with our sins. Christ asserts that He has been forsaken and rejected by both God and man. Yet in the psalms we see the "faith of Christ" as He still trusts "His God," and continues His faithfulness. He is sure that in the end God will be His help and his faith will be justified. And Christ quotes these Psalms and other scriptures that we might search them out and consider them wisely.
Hebrews 13:5
"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."
He was forsaken for our sins, for our iniquities, for our transgressions. And because we know the answer to His plaintive question "why," we have full assurance of our completed redemption. Joyfully, our hearts may be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ (Colossians 2:2).
No; the question is, did jesus complete everything that he had to do? Nothing left?
John 5:36-39
"But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
The works were not completely finished until He died on the cross. For us to think that Christ was unable to understand fully His abandonment by God the Father as the sacrifice for us, is to completely convolute his entire ministry. For Christ knew and spoke of the work of the atonement, He knew He had to die for sins, He knew He had to suffer for the iniquity of many, and He knew that the Father had to administer that judgment. In short, He knew the cup was handed to Him of God, thus to say anything less makes a mockery of the doctrine of Christ.
That was truly wonderful. Thank you.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#31178 Jun 19, 2012
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>That was truly wonderful. Thank you.
You're welcome and God bless you brother...

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#31179 Jun 19, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll take the first two here initially...
I don't understand. If jesus is a god, how could he die? If he is alive, what did he sacrifice? One cannot sacrifice their life and still live! Jesus is fully God and fully man. In this way is how is able to suffer and die. And the sacrifice was being separated from God the Father, His Father, a separation that we all face because of sin.
He was forsaken for our sins, for our iniquities, for our transgressions. And because we know the answer to His plaintive question "why," we have full assurance of our completed redemption.
All that does not answer the question. Can jesus come back? If he is god or a god, then the answer is yes. Therefore, no sacrifice was made. If he and the father are the same god, then they cannot be separated, therefore, no sacrifice. If jesus and the father are one, then three days, in a hell that god created, is not much of a sacrifice, unless satan had power over him.

While being tempted by satan, jesus commanded satan to get behind him and satan obeyed. Doesn't sound like satan would have much influence on jesus during those 3 days. Since jesus was buried Friday afternoon and rose early Sunday morning, it was not really three days, was it? More like 36 hours, at best.

If jesus is god and alive the whole time god was, what is the sacrifice? He knew that he could not die, that he could return anytime he liked, and that he would easily survive 36 hours in a hell that he made. No sacrifice
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>No; the question is, did jesus complete everything that he had to do? Nothing left?
John 5:36-39
"But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
The works were not completely finished until He died on the cross. For us to think that Christ was unable to understand fully His abandonment by God the Father as the sacrifice for us, is to completely convolute his entire ministry. For Christ knew and spoke of the work of the atonement, He knew He had to die for sins, He knew He had to suffer for the iniquity of many, and He knew that the Father had to administer that judgment. In short, He knew the cup was handed to Him of God, thus to say anything less makes a mockery of the doctrine of Christ.
Since jesus is god, how could god not know what god knows? How could blaspheme of 1/3 of the one god be unforgivable, when blaspheme of 2/3 of that one god is forgivable?

"He knew He had to die for sins,"?!?! No he didn't! He made the plan! He did not have to plan it that way. He could have forgiven everyone without the mock death of him. It was god's plan to create the devil and let him loose on mankind. It was god who authored evil! How can you say that he HAD to do anything that he didn't want to do or did plan for?

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#31180 Jun 19, 2012
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>That was truly wonderful. Thank you.
Copying and pasting are not truly wonderful accomplishments.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#31181 Jun 19, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore, Tom has better sense than god.
He must!

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#31182 Jun 19, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
As you should.
Seriously, why would god make his 'word' incapable of being clearly understood even in the multiple languages he supposedly created.
BTW, speaking of multiple languages, didn't god realize that people would quickly overcome his alleged confusion of tongues?
God seems to be quite short sighted! He did seem to see what Lucifer was going to do and how that would affect humans.

He didn't seem to understand what hiding the evidence for a world wide flood would do.

He thought his only out was to murder all but 8 humans and 2x2 or 2x7 of the animals, depending on which noah story you believe.

Next, he thought that his only way out was to have himself mock killed on a cross.

But, about 3500 years ago, he knew that there was going to be a great battle at Armageddon... someday. Again, because he could not see anyway to avoid it!
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#31183 Jun 19, 2012
I suppose if God really only had one son (no daughters, no wife, no other sons, mind you ---???), and that son was really sacrificed to the point where he CEASED TO EXIST, then it might make sense to claim that "Jesus died for our sins" or "Jesus sacrificed himself for us."
Anonymous

Franklin, PA

#31184 Jun 19, 2012
Gillette wrote:
I suppose if God really only had one son (no daughters, no wife, no other sons, mind you ---???), and that son was really sacrificed to the point where he CEASED TO EXIST, then it might make sense to claim that "Jesus died for our sins" or "Jesus sacrificed himself for us."
But first, you either have to embrace the magic or read into it with a traditional Jewish gerontocracy point of view.

We're not really getting clarity here. The big three religions don't really sparkle once you escape the Caucasian zones of influence.

“The Edge”

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#31185 Jun 19, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually there is room for that yes...
Another words you can take a statement of any nature and twist it to fit what ever you're thinking. Fine what's the use of anyone else saying anything?
You can just make up your own story and believe that.
No more need for interaction with others....It's all "your" Knightmare. Just don't give up the day job dude, because your selling something only.......WE AIN'T BUYING !

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#31186 Jun 19, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
He entered the forum asking where are the fire breathing dragons predicted by evolution so, yeah, we've known that for quite some time.
Oh. Well, that's easy - they were selected out during the ice age.
Anonymous

Franklin, PA

#31187 Jun 19, 2012
OK. Would you buy into an "Alien Seed" theory? Or would that simply steal the thunder from both camps in this debate?

It still seems to me that nobody here is presenting or conceding anything. They just re-recite what they always do. I'm just looking for facts about how it all began. I'm not trying to market my experience in either an evolving world or God's puppet theater.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#31188 Jun 19, 2012
Anonymous wrote:
OK. Would you buy into an "Alien Seed" theory? Or would that simply steal the thunder from both camps in this debate?
It still seems to me that nobody here is presenting or conceding anything. They just re-recite what they always do. I'm just looking for facts about how it all began. I'm not trying to market my experience in either an evolving world or God's puppet theater.
Several problems. First, the "alien seed" in no way challenges evolution, that would be abiogenesis. But that leads to the other big problem, how did the "aliens" or "extraterrestrial life" come to exist in the first place. You encounter an infinite regression.
Anonymous

Franklin, PA

#31189 Jun 19, 2012
Purely rhetorical. Intelligent Design need not be "Divine", right?

“The Edge”

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#31190 Jun 19, 2012
Anonymous wrote:
Purely rhetorical. Intelligent Design need not be "Divine", right?
It also need not be right , right?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#31191 Jun 19, 2012
Anonymous wrote:
Purely rhetorical. Intelligent Design need not be "Divine", right?
No, and humanity has been in control of it's own evolution for centuries, we just had no name for it. We are being intelligently selected by our own hands now.

However, you enter infinite regression when you state "alien" life had to spark or even effect life on this planet. Because then what created that "alien" life? What created that which created that "alien" life?... and so on.

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#31192 Jun 19, 2012
Anonymous wrote:
OK. Would you buy into an "Alien Seed" theory? Or would that simply steal the thunder from both camps in this debate?
It still seems to me that nobody here is presenting or conceding anything. They just re-recite what they always do. I'm just looking for facts about how it all began. I'm not trying to market my experience in either an evolving world or God's puppet theater.
I don't know how it all began. Abiogenesis is way out of my area of expertise on so many levels, the best I can do is read what they write.

You mean the panspermia hypothesis? Well...bacteria and viruses and certain fungi spores, I think, survive in space. It's possible they float around out there and get activated when falling to a planet.

Or do you mean, aliens might have dropped off the necessary beginnings of life on this planet? Sure, but then you're into questions about why they did it, where did they come from, what's our evidence for this assertion. Are they coming back? Is this a farm planet for them?

And none of those questions generate new knowledge or interesting research - unless we found a spaceship or a fragment of one. Then suddenly those would be interesting questions that would generate research.

That's sort of the problem ID people have, too. First, it's impossible to directly test. Second, it doesn't lead to new research (for ex: "ok, we've identified that this gene could only have come from a designer - what does that tell us about the designer?" etc).

But if we had some evidence of designers then presumably those would be very relevant questions - Does the designer like beetles? There's over 300000 species of them on the planet! I think the designer must also like ants. In some forests, they make up the majority of biomass!

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#31193 Jun 19, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh. Well, that's easy - they were selected out during the ice age.
I don't even talk to him. He's got way too many screws loose.

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