Odessa collects signatures in support of Russian language

[Krishnamurty]

Russian chauvinists advocate two official languages to split and divide Ukraine national identity.

Belarus should serve as an example of the total failure of two official languages in Belarus.

Russian is the second official language there; as a result there's not a single Belarusan school in Minsk.

The Russian government, mindful of the demographic freefall that could lower Russia's population by tens of millions in the next couple of generations, is trying to shore up the Russian identity wherever it can, by spreading Russian.

For Russia, the use of Russian serves as a reminder of its imperial past and Russian chauvinist superiority complex.

In spite of ussian longing for the days of empire, Russia's population will likely become more like that of Turkey.

As a result, Russia will find it difficult to hold onto all its vast sparcely inhabited territory.

That`s why Russia still covets Ukraine whith its human recourses.

This explains why Russia opposes and tries to sabotage Ukraine'e alliances, Ukraine's growing national identity, and why Russia tries to undermine Ukrainian as a language.

Ukraine several decades ago attempted to restore its culture after centuries of Russian colonialism and Russification.

That Ukrainianization was crushed by the Russian Bolsheviks.

The Holodomor --the Russian Bolshevik Terror-Famine of 1932-1933 against millions of Ukrainian Farmers and their families, was part of the Russian strategy to hobble Ukraine and to eliminate its identy as a people and nation.

Ukraine is aware of neofascist Russian neoimperial ambitons.

As a result, Ukraine is actively diversifying its economic ties and looking to more and more ties with Europe and the rest of the world.

The proper trend is to Ukrainianization of Ukraine's institutions will make the issue evaporate over time.

Ukraine is therefore, joining the WTO and eventually NATO and EU.

[uther pendragon]

Aussie wrote:

<quoted text>
That's a good one! Belarus is a stable democracy because ...Georgia with his dictator Saakashvili is a stable democracy as well as per Mr Bush recommendations. Having no difference between Saakashvili and Lukashenko both can be considered as democracies.

But Lukashenko is much more democratic than the Georgians. He is a great patriot.

[Krishnamurty]

Many materials exist now to help monolingual Russophones to learn Ukrainian.

Here is an example:

http://images.google.com/imgres...

Learning Ukrainian will help them feel more integrated with the trend toward increasing Ukrainian usage.

[Canuck]

uther pendragon wrote:

<quoted text>
But Lukashenko is much more democratic than the Georgians. He is a great patriot.

Yes, Georgia is slipping down faster than a turd down the toilet. Why_Me could certainly relate to that. Thanks to the utter stupidity of Saakasvilli. The Georgian people thought the U.S. and the West would look after them if they took a stand against Russia.
Mr Lukashenko believes in an authoritarian style of government because the alternative, he says, is instability. He is correct because the western based and funded NGO's are tripping over their clumsey feet in their attempt to overthrow Lukashenko.
Mr Lukashenko is doing a fine job in the face of adversity.

[Krishnamurty]

As the new generation learns more and more Ukrainian, even more Ukrainians will increasingly favor one official language --Ukrainian --for national unity.

Now that Ukraine is in the WTO, and aspiring to NATO and EU, Ukrainians, like other members of the European community -- the Italians, Dutch, French, Danes -- will need to know many international languages--the languages of its present and potential trading partners for business.

Eventually, Ukrainians of Odessa will willingly and automatically learn Ukrainian --and be glad they did.

[Why_Me]

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, Georgia is slipping down faster than a turd down the toilet. Why_Me could certainly relate to that. Thanks to the utter stupidity of Saakasvilli. The Georgian people thought the U.S. and the West would look after them if they took a stand against Russia.
Mr Lukashenko believes in an authoritarian style of government because the alternative, he says, is instability. He is correct because the western based and funded NGO's are tripping over their clumsey feet in their attempt to overthrow Lukashenko.
Mr Lukashenko is doing a fine job in the face of adversity.

Your about the biggest f*cking moron on this board CanNutty ...with maybe the exception of StepOnYa. Seriously why do you even bother posting...better yet how do you manage to power up your PC? It's obvious that your brain capacity is on par with a noodle.

[Krishnamurty]

There are benefits to Odesans for learning Ukrainian:

By achieving maximum linguistic and cultural independence from Russia, Ukraine will strengthen its sovereignty, and the idea of reuniting with Russia in any way or form will be abandoned for good.

Ukrainian citizens will be more loyal to the Ukrainian government and Ukrainian national interests as opposed to Russian and Russophile political forces who favor reintegration with Russia.

Czarist Russia, Bolshevik Russia, and now neofascist Russia have been dominating over Ukraine for centuries and suppressing Ukraine's culture and language to promote Russian colonialism and imperialism.

Russian language and cultural dependence on Russia have been artificially implanted in Ukraine and should be removed from official usage in Ukrainian national institutions.

Russophone Ukrainians are a historical aberration of Russian colonialism in Ukraine and should learn to use Ukrainian in their everyday lives.

Russophones in Ukraine should learn Ukrainian and use it in their public dealings.

Ukrainian should become the default language of public use in all regions of Ukraine.

As the new generation learns more and more Ukrainian, even more Ukrainians will increasingly favor one official language --Ukrainian --for national unity.

Now that Ukraine is in the WTO, and aspiring to NATO and EU, Ukrainians, like other members of the European community -- the Italians, Dutch, French, Danes -- will need to know many international languages--the languages of its present and potential trading partners for business.

The proper trend is to Ukrainianization of Ukraine's institutions will make the issue evaporate over time.

Eventually, Ukrainians of Odesa will stop petitioning for a foreign language to be made official --and Odesans will willingly and automatically learn Ukrainian --and be glad they did.

[uther pendragon]

There is no reason to get all uptight over the language issue. Ukraine will have two languages (Ukrainian probably the one official state language). The people will know both.
What is the problem?

[Why_Me]

uther pendragon wrote:

There is no reason to get all uptight over the language issue. Ukraine will have two languages (Ukrainian probably the one official state language). The people will know both.
What is the problem?

That's the whole idea...what you just posted, and it's a great idea. But the greedy Putin arse kissing f*ckers like CaNutty want Russian as the #1 official langauge in Ukraine, or they threaten to break away. All of this becouse Ukraine was "Russified" durring the times of the Tsars after Poltova and the SU begining with Holodomor.

[Krishnamurty]

uther pendragon wrote:

There is no reason to get all uptight over the language issue. Ukraine will have two languages (Ukrainian probably the one official state language). The people will know both.
What is the problem?

Actually, there is no problem,

Ukrainian will be the official language.

As in other nations there will be other languages in use on a day-to-day interpersonal communication and business level.

With Ukraine in the World Trade Organization next month, Ukrainians will be motivated to learn many other languages.

[Foresttoday]

Krishnamurty wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, there is no problem,
Ukrainian will be the official language.
As in other nations there will be other languages in use on a day-to-day interpersonal communication and business level.
With Ukraine in the World Trade Organization next month, Ukrainians will be motivated to learn many other languages.

I agree with you on this, in fact I have found it is not difficutlt to travel in Ukraine,as an American, using my slang English from the Northwest (Oregon-Washington States).

[Canuck]

Why_Me wrote:

<quoted text>
Your about the biggest f*cking moron on this board CanNutty ...with maybe the exception of StepOnYa. Seriously why do you even bother posting...better yet how do you manage to power up your PC? It's obvious that your brain capacity is on par with a noodle.

Wow, Why_Me……What crawled up your arse today? Is this an example of your terms of endearment you use for your beautiful wife also?

[Canuck]

Why_Me wrote:

<quoted text>
That's the whole idea...what you just posted, and it's a great idea. But the greedy Putin arse kissing f*ckers like CaNutty want Russian as the #1 official langauge in Ukraine, or they threaten to break away. All of this becouse Ukraine was "Russified" durring the times of the Tsars after Poltova and the SU begining with Holodomor.

Actually Why_Nut…..Ukaine needs to have one of the official languages of the UN. If you feel Ukraine’s hate for Russia is so rabid, Russian does not have to be a option, perhaps Chinese of Arabic could be the official language of Ukraine. Nobody speaks Ukrainian nor will Ukrainian ever become a language worth speaking.
Should Ukraine continue on the current roadmap, the break up of Ukraine is inevitable.
LOL…Holodomor? I think you mean Holohoax.

[Krishnamurty]

Foresttoday wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you on this, in fact I have found it is not difficutlt to travel in Ukraine,as an American, using my slang English from the Northwest (Oregon-Washington States).

The partial collapse of the Russian Bolshevik empire was painful for Russian chauvinistic pride and self-esteem based on false underpinnings of Russian supremacism.

The bulk of the Russian society suffered from the syndrome of dismemberment stemming from the break-up of the "Soviet Union" and the collapse of its status of a "great power."

Due to a large proportion of Russians in Ukraine, Moldavia, Central Asia, Kazakhstan, and Baltic states, the dissipation of the Russian Bolshevik empire was just as painful for Russians as was the loss of colonial empires by the British, French, or other nations.

The problem of ethnic Russians living in the former Soviet "republics" --really the colonies--remains one of the most traumatic experiences for the post-Soviet Russian consciousness.

Nevertheless, ethnic Russians will gradually integrate and assimilate into the new nations.

Russians in Russia may think their Russian-speaking diaspora are loyal to Moscow, but the reality is that many Russophones are saying, I'm Estonian of Russian ancestry, or I'm a Kazakh of Russian ancestry.

This has happened in the former British, French, and Spanish colonies --and it will happen in the former Russian colonies --and it will happen in the next round of nations that break away from Russia in the future.

The Russophones will learn Ukrainian, English, Turkish, Bulgarian --you name it.

Odesans will become enriched by the new knowledge and opportunities of being multilingual.

There is no doubt that, as Ukraine enters WTO, EU and NATO, not to mention many other trade associations and alliances, English --the new "lingua franca" --will be the most important language to know.

Eventually, the remnants of Russian chauvinist "I speak Russian" clamoring will evaporate.

[Why_Me]

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually Why_Nut…..Ukaine needs to have one of the official languages of the UN. If you feel Ukraine’s hate for Russia is so rabid, Russian does not have to be a option, perhaps Chinese of Arabic could be the official language of Ukraine. Nobody speaks Ukrainian nor will Ukrainian ever become a language worth speaking.
Should Ukraine continue on the current roadmap, the break up of Ukraine is inevitable.
LOL…Holodomor? I think you mean Holohoax.

No the break up of Ukraine is not inevitable. Ukraine needs one official langauge and that's Ukrainian. Russian can be a second langauge of course, but not to be spoken in the government, and courts.

Russian is a great langauge of doing business with Russia, but not as the #1 official langauge. And I'm sorry for comming off as a arse hole in that last post. I don't want to see Ukraine to tell Russia to f*k off completely, but Russia does keep putting it's nose in Ukraines afairs, even you have to admit that.

[Why_Me]

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Wow, Why_Me……What crawled up your arse today? Is this an example of your terms of endearment you use for your beautiful wife also?

Speaking of my wife, she used Russian as a first langauge, and never used Belarusian though she speaks it. Belarusians is still spoken in the small villiages and towns in western Belarus near Poland, but not so in the larger towns.

That is the product of "Rufficication". It's sad also becouse Belarusian is a very old langauge...infact it is the oldest language of the Rus. Belarusian was the language of adminatrators durring the days of the Polish - Lithuanian Commonweath, but it was slowly destroyed by the Tsars and later the Soviets.

[Krishnamurty]

Why_Me wrote:

<quoted text>
Speaking of my wife, she used Russian as a first langauge, and never used Belarusian though she speaks it. Belarusians is still spoken in the small villiages and towns in western Belarus near Poland, but not so in the larger towns.
That is the product of "Rufficication". It's sad also becouse Belarusian is a very old langauge...infact it is the oldest language of the Rus. Belarusian was the language of adminatrators durring the days of the Polish - Lithuanian Commonweath, but it was slowly destroyed by the Tsars and later the Soviets.

Russian chauvinists keep harping about some Kyivan Rus ties --but they have done their utmost to destroy Belarusan and Ukrainian through decades of Russification and did everything possible to diminish Kyiv.

[Foresttoday]

From all my reading about Ukraine and Stalin/Lenin revolution, is that they told all the satillite countries that they had to speak Russian. this was just one way of control. then they shipped a few million Ukrainian farmers out to the far East in Siberia, and filled their homes with Russian people from Moscow. Then Stalin wanted to bring the entire country to its knees and instigated the Famine that killed a some 6-7 million Ukrainians. The real number may never be known. Stalin was trying to keep Ukraine in his fold by thinking he was clever, but in fact was using his old tried and true KGB tricks. He felt poor, hungary people that wanted food from him would love him when he did give them a crumb or two.

two Examples of multi-languages not working in on the North American Continent very well are Ottawa in Canada for one. The cost to the Canadians is enormous as every government document must be written in both English and French. DeGulle tried to get the French to form a new country and withdraw from Canada. What a mistake that would have been.

Then there is the experiment about 5-6 years back where The County of San Diego, California voted in Spannish as the primary language and English as a secondary language. Two years later the people of Southern California saw the problems and cost and toss it out and went back to English as the Primary Language. Thank you God.

[uther pendragon]

Krishnamurty wrote:

<quoted text>
Russian chauvinists keep harping about some Kyivan Rus ties --but they have done their utmost to destroy Belarusan and Ukrainian through decades of Russification and did everything possible to diminish Kyiv.

What do you mean decades? The Empire wanted to eliminate Ukrainian before the Soviets did. You mean centuries?
Western Ukraine got it easy with only decades.

[uther pendragon]

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually Why_Nut…..Ukaine needs to have one of the official languages of the UN. If you feel Ukraine’s hate for Russia is so rabid, Russian does not have to be a option, perhaps Chinese of Arabic could be the official language of Ukraine. Nobody speaks Ukrainian nor will Ukrainian ever become a language worth speaking.
Should Ukraine continue on the current roadmap, the break up of Ukraine is inevitable.
LOL…Holodomor? I think you mean Holohoax.

You are crazy. National languages are not going out of business. Ukrainian is no more going to go away than Danish or Spanish is.
The whole world is not going to adopt Mandarin or Hindi.