Update on the OCC lawsuit
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choppman68

Brockton, MA

#1 Apr 27, 2011
Hey all, I just did some research on the net on a tip from a friend who lives in Orange County and knows a little about the Teutels and OCC.
Apparently, JR won his appeal on the suit SR brought against him on his 20% share of the company. It also says that an agreement on the financial end of it had been reached in late Feb. It didnt give any numbers, but I suspect that this whole lawsuit thing will play out on the show over the next few episodes. It DID say that another valuation was made by a court appointed appraiser. Whatever JR gets from it, in my opinion, is more than he deserves given the fact that A: the percentage was given to him by SR in order to motivate JR to do his job and take an interest in the buisiness. B: JR signed an employment contract laying out what was expected of him, none of which were unreasonable demands, and he continued to violate that contract over and over. In reading from several sources on the sublect, it appears that it was the WORDING of the original document gifting JR his stake in the comapny that eventually was SR's undoing in this matter. This isnt a quote, but it was something to the effect of, The original contract stipulating that SR could buyout JR's 20% at any time was unenforceable because there was not a stipulated remedy to assesing what the fair market value of the company is, thus negating the buyout clause in the contract. So SR loses the suit because of wording. While, I will agree that the shares cant be worth nothing, Ill be willing to bet, that with the state of business at OCC JR isnt going to get the windfall that he probably assumed he would.
I also found some information on the dirty dealings that BOTH JR and SR have been involved with over the years. The OCC ironworks when it was sold to Dan, Acording to the court records, it appears that SR and JR did some double dealing to avoid a lawsuit that was filed way back in 2003. What it appears happened was this, SR transferred money and other assests of the Ironworks into A dunny corporation that was in JR's name, thus stripping the original Ironworks of any assests, so, that when IRonworks went into bankruptcy, their creditors wouldnt be able to obtain the assests. It looks as if the whole plan was, to disolve the original ironworks, let Dan take over the new corporation, thus absolving any of the Teuttels from dealing with the lawsuits. That plan however kind of backfired on them all because a judged ruled that even though the "new" ironworks, then owned by Dan were going to be responsible for 500,000 dollars owed from a previous suit. That, in part is what caused the rift between dan and SR to start with, SR wasnt willing to pay that half million dollars, so Dan, as the sole owner of the ironworks was responsible LEGALLY.
I also found a site that said that the OCC headquarters is going to file bankruptcy, unload their current building, and build a new 25,000 sq ft. facility NEXT DOOR to the current facility!
It appears to me that shady dealings in buisiness and in personal relationships is nothing new for the Teutel clan. And, that includes ALL of them, SR, JR, and Dan. They ALL have been involved in manipulating the system so that they can keep a bigger slice of the pie. It REALLY seems to me, that they ALL are extremely greedy and not the most ethical people on the planet. Its sad to see people who are obviously more motivated by the almighty dollar than anything else in their lives, and MOST of the problems that family has, comes down to which one of them can get, and keep the most money regardless of how it affects their relationships.
In closing, I cant tell anyone exactly how reliable the sources i looked at are, but at least some of them were culled from actual legal documents of public record, so id say most of what Ive found is right on the mark
choppman68

Brockton, MA

#2 Apr 27, 2011
Another thing, while apparently all of the shady dealings the Teutels have been involved in, were, technically speaking "legal" I dont think what they have been involved in is necessarily ethical
As ive stated many times here, while obviously, SR isnt any kind of saint, and maybe he wasnt a great father when his kids were young, he did in fact help make all of them wealthy way beyond any education, or skill, that any of them posses. Look at JR, heres a man who had every opportunity to gain full knowledge of bikes, and business, yet he was always to lazy and unmotivated to dedicate himself to any of it. Because right now, if JR actually had to go out and get a job in a bike shop, noone would hire him. He doesnt know the first thing about working on or repairing anything on a bike. All he really knows how to do is have someone else make trinkets for him to bolt on a bike. And Mikey well, what can be said about a useless man who just happened to fall into a big pile of money. The fact that he opened an "art" gallery shows that he obviously has the same illusions of grndeur that his brother has
Fed up - the real one

Bronx, NY

#3 Apr 28, 2011
Wow Chop, this is all obviously straight from the father and you still want to blame everyone else. He left Dan holding a bag of shit and obviously is doing nothing to help him out... I am sure that Sr. told his sons that there wasn't anything to worry about in all of this and it was using all of SENIORS lawyers. Let's face it, aren't you one of those that keep telling us how great a businessman senior is? And how he started the business, blah, blah, blah...

I can read in between the lines myself and though people should read and understand everything before they sign, you would think you could trust your own father not to screw you over.

I guess Dan and Jr. have learned a lesson.
choppman68

Burnt Hills, NY

#4 Apr 28, 2011
Well, If you look back at my post, you will see that I dont claim SR to be a GREAT buisinessman, however, he did in fact start and build the ironworks and it was successfull and he ran it for 20 years, at one time I believe it employed over 70 people. Does this make him great? No, but, at least for a time it was a successfull buysiness.
Now heres is the part of Fed ups post that baffles me. You have always claimed that Im a SR lover, which isnt true, I have always said that SR is a egotistical asshole, and wasnt a great father when his kids were young. However, for you to put the blame for EVERYTHING all on SR's shoulders is shortsighted. As far as the unethical business practices go, your post insinuates that Dan, and JR had nothing to do with the apparent scam job pulled on the Ironworks creditors and how the whole deal went down. You really are turning a blind eye to whats real obvious here. Do you really think Dan and JR had no part in this? Especially since dan was the one taking over Ironworks? C'mon! your smarter than that I KNOW you are. They created a dummy corp. in JR's name, bled all the assests and equipment from the original Ironworks, then they file bankruptcy to avoid having to pay lawsuits and creditors of the ORIGINAL Ironworks. They start a NEW ironworks which DAN BOUGHT from SR. THEN Dan bought the equipment and assests BACK from the company that was in JRS name, which i feel sure JR got a kickback on that along with SR. But a monkeywrench got thrown into the whole sordid plan when a judge ruled that Ironworks were STILL responsible for a 500,000 lawsuit. And yes, I feel sure that SR wouldnt pay it, so Dan and SR are at each others throats. With all the shit and shady underhanded dealings that went on, Do you REALLY think that Dan and JR were these little innocent boys with NO IDEA how all of this was taking place? Do you REALLY think that Dan and JR are just going to sign everything SR laid in front of them without knowing EXACTLY what was going on? You always are saying how mistreated and abused those poor little innocent Teutel boys are, and you claim that I talk SR up to be a saint. Well. its simply NOT true. In my opinion the WHOLE damn family are unethical and greedy, and at the end of the day, that familys biggest problem is GREED plain and simple. Mark my words, from what Im hearing SR is on the verge of doing virtually the same thing with OCC if the rumours are true. Hes going to let that building go into foreclosure, and bankrupt it, then hes going to open another shop. How do you think guys like Donald Trump have been in bankruptcy and foreclosures and come back more wealthy than ever? These guys know how to manipulate the system. But for you to say Dan and Jr were innocent in those dirty deals only shows me that you arent very objective at all. At least Ill tell you SR is an unethical businessman and at times a poor father, BUT it WAS Sr who was responsible for making his lazy ass sons wealthy. Yes, it was a BIG stroke of luck that Discovery caught that first arguement on tape, thus launching a wildly popular TV show BUT it was SR who reinvested in that business to grow it to its greatest potential. It wasnt Mikey or JR investing any of their gravy money, they took NO risk but wanted all the rewards.
occshowfan

Madison, NJ

#5 May 9, 2011
Obviously, one man's opinion of "sucessfull" can vary from another...yes senior ran a business for 20 years or whatever, but he also lived in a tiny old blue house before OCC blew up worldwide, and as lazy as some have branded jr,(and i think he admits to being guilty of that sometimes) it was HIS talent that got SR. that big MONSTER house of his...the bottom line is SR. is now a millionaire with 50 muscle cars and countless other toys. Had it not been for Jr's design's, pop would still be living in that old blue house...period.
mopar nut

Canandaigua, NY

#6 May 9, 2011
I find it ironic how many people here in the forum have stated that Paul Sr. owned OC Ironworks for 20 plus years until Orange County Choppers was started. Well not true, Paul Sr. actually transferred that business to Paul Teutul Jr. The business was called O.C. Iron Works. Paul Sr. continued to serve as a consultant.

Paul Jr. then sold the assets of the business to Orange County Ironworks LLC, which is owned by his brother, Daniel Teutul.

Thus leading to yet another lawsuit against the Teutul's.
choppman68

Sudbury, MA

#7 May 9, 2011
mopar nut wrote:
I find it ironic how many people here in the forum have stated that Paul Sr. owned OC Ironworks for 20 plus years until Orange County Choppers was started. Well not true, Paul Sr. actually transferred that business to Paul Teutul Jr. The business was called O.C. Iron Works. Paul Sr. continued to serve as a consultant.
Paul Jr. then sold the assets of the business to Orange County Ironworks LLC, which is owned by his brother, Daniel Teutul.
Thus leading to yet another lawsuit against the Teutul's.
Maybe I misstated that, but my point was this, The WHOLE Teutel clan is as crooked as a back road in Virginia. NONE of them are immune from shady buisiness practices and if anyone thinks its only a case of the greedy old man taking advantage of the sweet innocent angelic boys, its not the case. They are ALL crooked in their own way, and they ALL have had a role in the shady business practices of the past
choppman68

Sudbury, MA

#8 May 9, 2011
occshowfan wrote:
Obviously, one man's opinion of "sucessfull" can vary from another...yes senior ran a business for 20 years or whatever, but he also lived in a tiny old blue house before OCC blew up worldwide, and as lazy as some have branded jr,(and i think he admits to being guilty of that sometimes) it was HIS talent that got SR. that big MONSTER house of his...the bottom line is SR. is now a millionaire with 50 muscle cars and countless other toys. Had it not been for Jr's design's, pop would still be living in that old blue house...period.
JR Isnt exactly living in a ramshackle hut. Everyone says it was Jr's talent, which isnt really accurate, it was the stroke of luck that Discovery caught that first big fight. It never has been bike guys that made the show popular, its always been mostly the novice bike enthusiast, and people who wanted to see drama of it all. They all basically just hit the reality tv lottery. It wasnt JR's "talent" Or SR's great knowledge, it was just a lucky break. But I DO give them all credit for taking full advantage of that break.
rock

Queensbury, NY

#9 May 9, 2011
scumbags all of them
chadder

Appleton, WI

#10 May 10, 2011
Wow you guys are fighting just like the show is.Did you actually think that another reality show wouldnt have huge problems.Every company has little secrets,and if noone finds out good for them then.The producers are the ones to blame for all this.Although there just trying to make money just like the rest of us,it's different when it screws up a family.Lets remember family is the most important thing in the world and should always be that way.Road bumbs are inevitable but when someone else screws up your family for a profit,bad on them.That being said Paul Sr. has tried time and time again to reconcile with Mikey,and he blows his father off.Mikey is absolutely useless.Paul jr. should get his money because without him there would be no show.Just my 2 cents worth.
Page

Lindenhurst, NY

#11 Jun 2, 2011
I was at OCC last month - Juniors biles - at least the ones he wanted are not in the showroom - the place is about empty.
Page

Lindenhurst, NY

#12 Jun 2, 2011
let me redo that...I was at OCC last month - Juniors favorite bikes - at least the ones he wanted are not in the showroom - the place is about empty.
Dan

Yucca Valley, CA

#13 Jun 3, 2011
OCCSHOWFAN: like many people here think that it was just Jr that came up with the bikes. IT WAS ALL OF THE CREW THAT SHOULD GET THE CREDIT, not just Jr. Most of the time he had nothing on paper for what the build was to look like so he could change his mind when someone else had a better idea or ider as Sr would say. Some of the companies did not like the bikes they got and that is why Sr brought in Jason so they had something that the company could sign off on as to what the bike would like. Also in the show you can see the there is nothing up stairs like there used to be. I think that the reason is to make sure that are not part of any future lawsuit from the company that has the title on the building. I would think that the titles for the bikes are held by Sr or some other person or company, maybe the OCC Foundation. Either way you look at it both of them are in much better shape then 80% to 90% of the people that watch the show.
Hocus Pocus

United States

#14 Jul 4, 2011
OK A disfunctional family has been made multi-millionaires... Lets move on, enough of OCC, its a TV show.. If people are stupid enough to pay 80 to over 100 grand for a bike well you watch the show, you deserve each other.... Personlly I would love to see how these bikes held up on the road after a couple years of riding and how safe are they as no one building them has any type of engineering background.......
Hopefully OCC will get it stuck to them as they have stuck it to others!!!
Jason

San Jose, CA

#15 Jul 13, 2011
Actually I stopped watching because the drama was all they showed. At least in the beginning they talked about the welding techniques and design issues. Now even the other bike contest shows barely show anything beyond staged conversations.
Important rule of Hollywood: You will lose your business the moment you start assuming your audience is as stupid as the lowest common denominator.
Brent

Las Vegas, NV

#16 Jul 20, 2011
Dan is an idoit. I will pay for his stupid ass to build a bike next to Jr.
Dan wrote:
OCCSHOWFAN: like many people here think that it was just Jr that came up with the bikes. IT WAS ALL OF THE CREW THAT SHOULD GET THE CREDIT, not just Jr. Most of the time he had nothing on paper for what the build was to look like so he could change his mind when someone else had a better idea or ider as Sr would say. Some of the companies did not like the bikes they got and that is why Sr brought in Jason so they had something that the company could sign off on as to what the bike would like. Also in the show you can see the there is nothing up stairs like there used to be. I think that the reason is to make sure that are not part of any future lawsuit from the company that has the title on the building. I would think that the titles for the bikes are held by Sr or some other person or company, maybe the OCC Foundation. Either way you look at it both of them are in much better shape then 80% to 90% of the people that watch the show.
ohio buckeye

Saint Clairsville, OH

#17 Jul 24, 2011
jr. is a phony.what happened to his first wife and kids?he never mentions them,if he was working at mcdondalds his new wife wouldn,t give him the time of day.jr. you are no stud,you are an idiot.
Truth Hurts

Bellmore, NY

#18 Jul 24, 2011
ohio buckeye wrote:
jr. is a phony.what happened to his first wife and kids?he never mentions them,if he was working at mcdondalds his new wife wouldn,t give him the time of day.jr. you are no stud,you are an idiot.
Jr. has a first wife and kids?

Really? I have never heard of them, where is your source for this information.
Brian McCaff

Kahului, HI

#19 Jul 27, 2011
Grew up with Pauly, nick name (scibbles) and I know Rachel is his first and only wife. Shame on you ohio buckeye for your incorrect comment. Bless you Ohio Buckeye. Sorry you were not brought up to respect and obey, if it is in your vocabulary at least try to be humble. Thank Jesus my brother!!
Howell Morgan

Liverpool, UK

#20 Jul 27, 2011
Been watching OCC with my wife in Wales (UK) since it came out on DISCOVERY about 5-6 years ago?. I thought it was about Helicopters as thats what Choppers are over here,and not motor cycles. It has been quite fascinating,and about to watch last programme on current Snr v Jnr series. Very sad to see such a breakdown in relationship,however no conspiracy theorists that its a a put-up job??.The one thing that has impressed me has been the work ethic of Snr and his staff,and what ever is said about the old man (I'm 66) he's certainly a worker and not shirker.

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