Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

[sportxmouse]

REPOST 15861

Dana Robertson wrote:

<quoted text>
]And you worship a bastard God. One created in your own image. Your God lies when he claims to be just. I worship an honest God, one that promises not to put more on us than we can handle. Your God is a pig.

[sportxmouse]

REPOST 15835 Quote From Dana

Only the false ones of the LDS church. The Old Testament says to kill the false prophets.

[sportxmouse]

REPOST <Exposing Dana & his quotes>

mrs dane roberts

You are a cry baby... trying to be a bully, so you can make your own Church.

185 year Church standing on the foundation of God... Jesus Christ Church. THe History and principles can't be perverted by trash like you.

->You are replica of Cain... so jealous of his brother Able that he killed him.

Isn't that' what you threatened:

-> you will "Crucify Jesus Christ himself"
-> you will kill his prophets
-> you call God the Father a "bastard", a "pig", "retarded"

then, of course there's your famous saying....

Dana Robertson wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not going to embrace fantasies just to please a phony religion that only wants to run every detail of my life without giving me anything in return. Sorry, that's not going to happen.

...

What exactly do you want from God?

YOU HAVE NEVER ANSWERED THAT...
is it because your ashamed of your behavior or is it because you think your too good to be responsible for your actions?

Jesus came down here and died for you. Isn't that enough?

You don't want to embrace a religion that wants to run every detail of your life without giving you anything in return?

EXCUSE ME?

Isn't that what God's intent is... for you to adhere to his plan... the one you agreed to when you chose to come down here?

yet, you won't even act decent or moral because you don't get anyting in return?

WHAT?

YOU REALLY ARE A MORON!

Continue to:

Mock it all you want... today.
Celebrate your followers... today.

God will win in the end.

[sportxmouse]

Dana said

"I would crucify Jesus Christ himself if he taught polygamy to the Jews"

Dana... is a self serving manipulative life term blogger who lies about truths. She/He does everything because of personal

Agenda.

[sportxmouse]

Dana... just for your information.

"::: GOD STILL WINS!"

[sportxmouse]

Dana... SAME QUESTION?

HOW MANY GOD's are we discussing again?

Are you really to ignorant to realize that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

We have 1 Heavenly Father.... he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

It's the different religion sects that are different!

What is wrong with you.

IF YOU WOULD CLICK ON A LINK OCCASIONALLY AND RESEARCH FACTS you would understand how all the different religions came to exist in the dark ages until Jesus restored HIS Church.

You're so angry that you can't see logic anymore.

[Sambrotherofneph i]

concerned in Egypt wrote:

<quoted text>
That sounds very nice and is quite interesting its Mormon Doctrine but not Christian
Christians 2000 Years ago believed the following and we believe it today.
Mt 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
Angels in heaven are not married.
Another irrefutable fact why Mormons are not Christians they are MORMONS.

I totally agree with Matthew 22:30. In heaven we can't marry. It doesn't say anything about not being married if already married.

Peter says we will be married when he says that the husband and wife will be "heirs together of the grace of life" in 1 Peter 3:7

How can we be heirs together in heaven when we no longer have that marital relationship?

[Sambrotherofneph i]

concerned in Egypt wrote:

<quoted text>
This is one case in which I will answer your question with a question that to which I am not to found of doing.
HOW COULD Abraham recongnize somebody he had never seen before right of the Bat??
When you answer that question you will have the answer to your question.
REMEMBER he had never seen Jesus before.
REMEMBER even by LDS teachings Jesus did not dwell in the flesh or have flesh till the Incarnation when his flesh was born to Mary.
YOU have not thought this through take some time.

Answer:
1. The spirit takes a form
2. Spirit/holy ghost testifies

[Sambrotherofneph i]

Dana Robertson wrote:

<quoted text>
You can find a similar statement in every Ensign. The church has been bitten in the butt so many times by it's own publications they make such claims in almost every publication to have a cop out. In the 60's and 70's "Mormon Doctrine" was a must have for every member of the church and could be found in most of their homes.

Dana,
Where did you read that you can find similar statements in every Ensign?

I am sitting in my home at this moment looking at page 3 of my Ensign. A section says "The Ensign is published monthly by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..." There is no disclaimer.

The Ensign IS published by the Church.

[Sambrotherofneph i]

lamer wrote:

So what i got out of this thread seems to be that the Mormons consider themselves to be christians yet, everyone disagrees with them.

Pretty much.

I think I have the right to say I'm a Christian.

I believe in God and I believe in Christ, he is my Savior, and his sacrifice is the only thing that is going to allow me to get into Heaven.

Yet some people are telling me that believing that is not enough to call yourself a Christian.

[concerned in Egypt]

Father overtime wrote:

<quoted text>
Faith matters more than your supposed truth that you pretend to comprehend liar.

Actually you are once again in error.

Faith in a lie is suicide.
Faith in Truth is LIFE>

They go hand in hand if you are missing either on of them you are missing everything,

Jesus is the Truth and the way.

[concerned in Egypt]

No Surprise wrote:

<quoted text>
You dodged the question and not well. But I understand why you dodged it :)
You stated the following...
"These are excellent points you bring up here.
You are welcome to your LDS view on them.
But here is the kicker.
For over 2000 years all Christians have believed that Jesus did as he saw the father do with his spiritual eyes. Even the LDS teach Jesus did not have bodily form in heaven he got his body when he came to earth.
Thus even by LDS teaching Jesus never had seen God the father with eyes of flesh before his incarnation and even then not until he ascended.
So even by your own teachings the ONLY way Jesus could do what the Father was doing was by spiritual means. Thus your conclusion that God the Father was flesh is illogical and erroneous."
Your first error is the LDS have always taught that even as spirits, we all had the same shape and form as our physical bodies encompass. That our spirits had a trunk, head, arms and legs and genitalia but that the spirit was of a purer material then what the body is made of.
So the premise of your whole argument is incorrect and wrong because you stated it on information that was incorrect and wrong.
The LDS believe God the Father and God the mother came here from another time and space in bodies of flesh and bone, to create all that exists because it was their time to be Gods of their own time and space and worlds they would create.
And that is how the LDS believe that Jesus saw what the Father did and knew what to do besides the fact that he learned all he knew how to do from the Father by word and deed.
So by the LDS teachings, to them it is not illogical and erroneous to believe they are and can be as their creator in word and deed and substance and shape and form.
You have to base your argument/debate on how the LDS actually believe and teach to have a good argumant/debate, just saying :)

No they LDS have not always taught we have the same form as Spirits as we do our physical bodies but hey if I am wrong quote your MORMON Scriptures that prove me wrong. Redeemer no fringe or unofficial LDS documents.

I await your proof.

But the point was not if LDS teach it, the point that you did a dance around is Christians have never taught it from Christianity's inception till today.

That is why Mormons are not Christians

[concerned in Egypt]

Sambrotherofnephi wrote:

<quoted text>
Ohh, I'm sorry about that. This all makes sense now. I see why you were responding the way you did. My point and case were not that Jesus saw God hence God has flesh. My point was that Jesus Christ said that he has done nothing except he has seen the father do it. In other words, if Christ came to have a body, God must have done that at some time too.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Wow you really half to take Jesus's words out of Context to come up with that conclusion.

If I say I am only doing that which my President is doing that does not mean I am black if he is. But that is exaclty how you illogic works.

YOU clearly have no clue what metaphor Simille is.

But that is here nor there for the purpose of this thread.

Again the FACT LDS use this verse out of context to justify your 19th century doctrine that previous was unheard of and never taught or believed by Christians for 1900 years continuously before proves in of itself you and LDS are not Christians.

[concerned in Egypt]

Sambrotherofnephi wrote:

<quoted text>
The above quoted text sounds like a dodge, but I'll roll with it. My point is, you can't say our view of God being visible is "unChristian" when we can back it up in the Bible. But perhaps that is debatable and such a discussion would be a rabbit trail leading off the topic of this forum.
A few questions I would like answered:
Note: I apologize if you have answered these questions previously on this forum. I simply don't have the time or patience to sift through the last few hundred pages I missed.
-How would YOU define a Christian and why?
-What is your religious background?
-How did you come to your belief in your faith?
-Do you think our loving Savior would tell me that I am not a Christian?
-Do you think I am going to hell? Why?
-How can I be saved?(Not applicable if you don't think I need saving)
I hope that by answering these questions we can get to the meat of this forums topic.
Thanks!

The forum is about whether LDS Mormons are Christian.

It is not about me.
My definition of Christian is irrelevant.
My religious background is irrelevant.
Whether you are going to hell or not is irrelevant that's your choice.
How you are saved is irrelevant to this forum other than the fact how Christians have believed one is saved for the last 2000 years differs from how Mormons believed one is saved for the past 180 years of so.

My post and Posts that you have posted to are not a dodge as you try to imply as you ignore the 6 pages of LDS prophets and apostles I quoted teaching contray to what again Christians have taught for 2000 years.

Christianity is defined in the Bible not me it is defined by what Christians believed and taught in the Bible.
LDS teachings directly contradict it.

For one the Bible teaches there is only one REAL God and Christians have been and are monotheistic. LDS are polytheistic and believe in many REAL Gods and thus are not Christian.

Shall I continue with the facts.

[concerned in Egypt]

Sambrotherofnephi wrote:

<quoted text>
I totally agree with Matthew 22:30. In heaven we can't marry. It doesn't say anything about not being married if already married.
Peter says we will be married when he says that the husband and wife will be "heirs together of the grace of life" in 1 Peter 3:7
How can we be heirs together in heaven when we no longer have that marital relationship?

ARE you that daft read

Ro 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Tit 3:7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Heb 6:17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath.

Heb 11:9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.

1Pe 3:7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers

They are heirs because they both have faith in Jesus the Christ.

NOT because they are married.

The verse says they won't be married they will be like the Angles
Marriage ends at death.

Again I could give you full lesson on this from the Bible scripture but that not the threads Premise.

What is if if Mormons are Christians and again because you believe contrary to what Christians believe today and Yesterday all the way to 33 AD you are not Christian.

[No Surprise]

concerned in Egypt wrote:

"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins ... This is loving our neighbor as ourselves, if he needs help, help him, and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 220).[Many were killed under what is called the "Blood Atonement Doctrine" Leaving Mormonism was one of the sins that the blood of Jesus could not atone for, and a person's own blood must be shed by Mormon priests as an atonement for sin.]
"I intend to meet them on their own grounds.... and if any miserable scoundrel comes here, cut their throats." [And they obeyed; a wagon train of innocent men, women, and children were massacred at Mountain Meadows under the orders of Brigham Young. They were passing through Utah, and Brigham thought they were from Illinois where Joseph Smith had been killed. Many more were "atoned."]

You have a contradiction in the above between what Young states and what the narrator states, did you know that?
The narrator claims that wagon train massacre was done for blood atonement.
Unfortunately Young declared the only way blood atonement could happen was by slicing a person's throat.
See, the people in that wagon train massacre were killed by bullets. Many were stabbed. The deed was done quickly, meaning they didn't have the time or cooperation of the people in the wagon train to ask them to all line up so they could quickly slit open every one's throats for their blood atonement doctrine. Understand?
So the massacre wasn't done for reasons concerning the blood atonement doctrine. People were stabbed and shot to death in as hurried of a manner as was possible.
So explain from your sources, how that massacre was done for blood atonement if it wasn't done as Young stated it had to be done.
By the way, please give evidence of all these blood atonement killings the narrator and Young spoke of having taken place.

[No Surprise]

Dana Robertson wrote:

<quoted text>
Go whine somewhere else, I don't care.

lol...you won't answer the question because you'll have to reveal some of your own anti-Mormon crap. At least we agree here :)

[No Surprise]

Dana Robertson wrote:

<quoted text>
If your god has limits, that is your problem. The God that can create heaven and the earth can certainly sit down and have lunch with Abraham. How "fricking" pathetic are you? LOL!!!

You realize A. you jumped into a conversation that as usual you had not a clue of what was being discussed and B. you keep dissing Egypt with your pathetic replies, not me lol.

[No Surprise]

concerned in Egypt wrote:

<quoted text>
No they LDS have not always taught we have the same form as Spirits as we do our physical bodies but hey if I am wrong quote your MORMON Scriptures that prove me wrong. Redeemer no fringe or unofficial LDS documents.
I await your proof.
But the point was not if LDS teach it, the point that you did a dance around is Christians have never taught it from Christianity's inception till today.
That is why Mormons are not Christians

They have taught that. Maybe you should begin with this reference as spoken by Smith himself so you can have some clarification on the matter. Please read it all.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_t...

[No Surprise]

concerned in Egypt wrote:

<quoted text>
No they LDS have not always taught we have the same form as Spirits as we do our physical bodies but hey if I am wrong quote your MORMON Scriptures that prove me wrong. Redeemer no fringe or unofficial LDS documents.
I await your proof.
But the point was not if LDS teach it, the point that you did a dance around is Christians have never taught it from Christianity's inception till today.
That is why Mormons are not Christians

Now consider the following from a guy that had not a day of schooling in the sciences. please read the link so you'll read the comments below in context okay?
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Matter
..
"The elements are eternal" (D&C 93:33). "The spirit of man is not a created being; it existed from eternity, and will exist to eternity. Anything created cannot be eternal; and earth, water, etc., had their existence in an elementary state, from eternity" (Joseph Smith, in HC 3:387).
..
Addressing the issue of creation ex nihilo, Joseph Smith asserted in one of his final sermons: "Now, the word create…does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize; the same as a man would organize materials and build a ship. Hence, we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos-chaotic matter, which is element…. Element had an existence from the time [God] had. The pure principles of element are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning and can have no end" (HC 6:308-309).
..
Extending the concept of the eternal nature of matter to the substance of spirit, Joseph Smith revealed, "There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes; we cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter" (D&C 131:7-8).
..
Parley P. Pratt, an apostle and close associate of Joseph Smith, wrote, "Matter and spirit are the two great principles of all existence. Everything animate and inanimate is composed of one or the other, or both of these eternal principles…. Matter and spirit are of equal duration; both are self-existent, they never began to exist, and they never can be annihilated…. Matter as well as spirit is eternal, uncreated, self existing. However infinite the variety of its changes, forms and shapes; …eternity is inscribed in indelible characters on every particle" (HC 4:55).