Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 Full story: CNN 32,003

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19831 Jan 26, 2013
Sliding Delta_19D4L wrote:
<quoted text>
You're obviously NOT a Christian. You're a freaking bigot. Screw you and people that think like you then. Freaks like you are the reason so many people HATE you. Your "Lord" didn't preach to exclude the gentiles. He reached out to them. How un-Christian of you. Hahahaha.
Are you seeking negative attention?

Site your source that proves I am not a Christian,

Waiting.

Since: Jan 13

United States

#19832 Jan 26, 2013
Who cares there is so much more important things going on in the world. You'll never come to an agreement. Just practice what you think is right. Don't push your religion on other people. Believe in what you think is right and leave it at that.
The Watcher

Clearlake, CA

#19834 Jan 27, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I have not seen your evidence presented...
My point is nobody "FORCED" you to come to a Mormon site and post your anti-Mormonism, cult, Nazi-Germany rambles.
Present your evidence... not your opinions!
How are you implying that Brigham Young assaulted and killed the Christian members of the Church?
How was it his fault... have you read the documented historical trials those people endured to have the "CHOICE" to practice their own faith???
Isn't that what the Constitution says? We too have the right to CHOOSE. Just because you accuse the church as being non-christian doesn't make it so
.
This thread is on the main religious forum. It may also be on the Later Day Saints forum. But even if it was only on the Later Day Saints forum it would still be accessible to the general public. Topix is not owned by the Mormon church as you seem to think.

By posting the thread on the main religious forum you have done precisely what you have accused me of doing. Trying to force your ideas on mainstream Christianity with your claim that goes against the evidence that can be found in the written teachings of your masters that are a matter of public record.

And as far as evidence goes, your church made the statement claiming to be Christian. The evidence needs to be presented by the one making the claim. The only evidence that has been presented on this thread demonstrates that you are not Christian by definition.

All you and the other defenders of the mormon faith here on topix have presented so far are ad hominem attacks and allegations of liar to any evidence presented. And you want me to provide more evidence? You don't want evidence, you simply want to prove me wrong.

And I have read the historical trials of the mormons. In fact I have read the whole story including the parts omitted by your masters in Salt Lake City which helps explain why they were persecuted in the first place. Read it for yourself:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/tmpc.shtml

And the debate on this thread is concerned with the churches statement "Who says Mormons aren't Christians?"

The historical Jesus was a Jew. He grew up worshiping the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel. Your masters have rejected the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel and have you worshiping a different god of Joseph Smith's creation thus making your cult non-Christian by definition:

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/kolob.htm

Yours is not the only church that falsely claims to be Christian while rejecting the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel at the heart of the ministry of the historical Jesus. But nevertheless it does reject the Jewish Jesus and the Jewish GOD making it just another non-Christian cult that falsely calls itself Christian.

And talking about the constitution, why don't we discuss your master's teachings on a view held by Joseph Smith on a form of theocracy called theodemocracy?

Talk about forcing your religion on people! This takes the cake!

There are many other non-Christian beliefs in your church also:

http://www.basicchristian.org/Christian_vs_Mo...

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19836 Jan 27, 2013
The Watcher wrote:
<quoted text>

... blah, blah, blah...
So, what I read from your statement is that you feel that you are the only one who can state an opinion here and speak out against Mormonism...

and nobody can defend their position or make statements otherwise...

Is that correct?

because what I am hearing you keep saying is... this forum is for your purpose.

You say it's a debate forum however but you're the only one qualified to debate. What are you debating? That you can talk?

lol.

Is that your argument on all threads you debate on?

“Protest / support the marchers”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19838 Jan 27, 2013
Recovery from Mormonism
(next post)

“Protest / support the marchers”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19839 Jan 27, 2013

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19840 Jan 27, 2013
The Watcher wrote:
And as far as evidence goes, your church made the statement claiming to be Christian. The evidence needs to be presented by the one making the claim. The only evidence that has been presented on this thread demonstrates that you are not Christian by definition.
Ohhh yeah, I got this one!:)
Mormon's do claim to be Christian. They claim that because they believe in Jesus and the Bible, two requirements modern Christiandom uses to define who's a Christian and who's not.
You claim to be a Christian. But you don't believe in the Bible. You believe most of it is crap and nothing but crap. Modern Christianity would deem you not a Christian because you reject the Bible. They would call you a fake and false Christian because you do reject the Bible.
That means you have absolutely no validation to judge who's a Christian and who isn't, because Christianity today declares you're not a Christian by rejecting the Bible.
At least Mormons don't reject the Bible as you have done.
Any questions?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19841 Jan 27, 2013
The Watcher wrote:
And I have read the historical trials of the mormons. In fact I have read the whole story including the parts omitted by your masters in Salt Lake City which helps explain why they were persecuted in the first place. Read it for yourself:
I'll call you a liar. You haven't "..read the historical trials of the Mormons". You may have read this or that but you haven't read them all as you just implied you did. And you claim you don't lie?
Well tell me this if you know so much you should have an answer without pasting anything from the web.
Smith was being held in jail in one particular instance. He was facing several charges. One of the non-Mormons who had been through all the previous events Smith was being accused of having done, he stated in writing after wards that Smith was innocent of all charges. Who was he and what did he do for Smith while Smith was in custody?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19842 Jan 27, 2013
The Watcher wrote:
And talking about the constitution, why don't we discuss your master's teachings on a view held by Joseph Smith on a form of theocracy called theodemocracy?
Need more evidence of your vile insulting derogatory statements????
"why don't we discuss your master's teachings.."
In the above you have called the poster a slave. You implied mental stupidity that allowed themselves to become a slave. You disrespected them as much as you had disrespected a black African that was a slave, or a native American used for slavery. And you lie over and over claiming you don't make vile nasty remarks???? YOU'RE A LIAR.
allforjesus

Seymour, IN

#19844 Jan 27, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...
That is an extremely challenging argument you make there. How much of the Church do you know about? Where do you learn it from?
Did someone tell you?
its really not funny. I've studied many religions and my family member was an ex Mormon, they told me what happened to them after they left, and while they were still in lds and converting to christainity what he seen,

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19845 Jan 28, 2013
allforjesus wrote:
<quoted text> its really not funny. I've studied many religions and my family member was an ex Mormon, they told me what happened to them after they left, and while they were still in lds and converting to christainity what he seen,
IDK what happened for your family member to be an ex member... but my experiences are what I put into them. The members are not perfect, their purpose is to hopefully be working towards perfectness.
I know for myself... I studied world religions in college, I went to many different sects, and I seen plenty... However, I have a true testimony is Jesus Christ, the Bible, the Book of Mormon (which is about the experiences the Jews that left Jerusalem to come to America in ~600 B.C.), and in Joseph Smith who was a true prophet. I have a strong testimony that a a young boy with no education could translate this book without divine assistance from Father above (because it was not written in a language that no other had due to it being a mixture of Hebrew and Egyptian Hieroglyphs, the space the Nephites had to write on was limited so they had to compress the language-making it unique/and that language was a lost language by 1829). I have a true testimony that even though members may be wrong the Church is true, and always will be.

“Protest / support the marchers”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19846 Jan 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
From what I understand, the only babies that are be adopted to gay men are the Aids infected ones. The last baby anybody wants. If true, I don't have a problem with that. Child molestation is a problem with all groups, not just homosexuals. More and more women are being caught molesting boys also. Look at the raise of female teachers being caught having sex with their students.
No, I know of healthy babies being adopted by gays, and in one case a parent had been molested. I think many people are gay because of molestation and abuse. I believe that often affects families for generations, and am vehemently against using children in social experiments, not only because children pay the price, but that most parents are too stupid to learn from mistakes and change their own behaviors.

“Protest / support the marchers”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19847 Jan 28, 2013
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>Why should gay men not be allowed to adopt children??? Are you kidding me? You make it sound as though just because you are a gay male you are a child molester. You are freaking sick.
See previous post.
First of all, I don't think gays should be adopting children of the opposite sex. Adopted kids have enough to deal with.

“Protest / support the marchers”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19848 Jan 28, 2013
What's sick is putting the desires of adults before the NEEDS of children.
YOU sound like an emotionally retarded over-grown child, saying 'me-me-me.
01imjustsayin@gm ail.com

Mobile, AL

#19851 Jan 28, 2013
I used to think the Elders who would come out to our house were pretty cool. We'd sit there and talk about the Bible and all. Until one day they dropped the whole Joseph Smith bomb on us. Yeah. That was the last day the Elders came out to visit.
mormons hmmm

Bayonne, NJ

#19853 Jan 29, 2013
fedupwiththemess wrote:
Mormons believe in a prophet that claims to follow GOD. Why believe in a man when JESUS is all you need? This is the cult part of being a mormon...I have a problem with the book of mormon and the modern day prophet. That is NOT right. I have a problem with the horny men wanting more than one wife for his own sexual pleasures because he said GOD told him to.
true&#8679;

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#19855 Jan 29, 2013
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
See previous post.
First of all, I don't think gays should be adopting children of the opposite sex. Adopted kids have enough to deal with.
So having loving parents that care for you financially, and emotionally changes if they are gay???? Im sorry , that makes no sense. I'm Mormon, so as a rule most would disagree with me. However, that doesn't change how I feel. A child can be loved and cared for no matter the sexual preference. As I said before you make it sound as though being gay makes someone a child molester. Let me be clear when I say, that sexual gender preference has NOTHING to do with sexual fetish. Children are molested everyday by their own birth parents, which is sad and sick. I would rather see that child being raised by a loving gay well adjusted male any day.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#19856 Jan 29, 2013
The Watcher wrote:
<quoted text>
force it on others?
I'm not forcing you to reject your religion, so let's not try to force me to reject the historical evidence that accurately proves that your religion is not Christian. Topix is a debate forum. I am questioning the premise of the subject of the thread. Nobody forced you to read my posts. And nobody forced you to attack my posts with your ad hominem attacks.
How about the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I notice you offered no defense for this religious terrorism that shows your religion's lack of Christian values other than your ad hominem attack questioning my mental state.
and it isn't an opinion to site historical evidence that indicates that your religion is not Christian by any definition but your own.
And no, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, another non-Christian religion very similar to your own.
I have presented historical evidence that can be documented that backs up my opposition of your claim to be Christian. That's all. You can form an opinion based on your appraisal of the accuracy of what I presented just as I can form an opinion based on your response but again, evidence is not an opinion.
peace.
What's up Papa. See you are still stuck on Mountain Meadow Massacre huh. Well, let's pretend for a moment shall we?
Even if the massacre happened exactly as you have described,
Jesus offers forgiveness. Where is yours?
How can you judge mine or anyone else's Christianity based on how you perceive the events to happen.
not to mention I am 36 years old, what part would I have played in something that happened so very long ago.
There is no doubt that there was a massacre. I just don't agree with your thoughts on the turn of events.
In all honesty the only ones who really know without a doubt what happened that day are long dead.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#19857 Jan 29, 2013
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>What's up Papa. See you are still stuck on Mountain Meadow Massacre huh. Well, let's pretend for a moment shall we?
Even if the massacre happened exactly as you have described,
Jesus offers forgiveness. Where is yours?
How can you judge mine or anyone else's Christianity based on how you perceive the events to happen.
not to mention I am 36 years old, what part would I have played in something that happened so very long ago.
There is no doubt that there was a massacre. I just don't agree with your thoughts on the turn of events.
In all honesty the only ones who really know without a doubt what happened that day are long dead.
I am not judging people I am pointing out doctrines that I feel are harmful. Your religion teaches much that opposes historical Christianity.

The Mountain Meadows Massacre is just one example of the fruit of the teachings of your leaders. You downplay it and claim there is no evidence to prove anything but I disagree and so do a lot of other people. As to evidence, it's there. You just refuse to see it as to admit that Brigham Young was a murderer would shatter your faith in the church.

You talk of forgiveness?

I can't extend the forgiveness that should come from those who were slaughtered. That is not my place.

And there will never be forgiveness until it's asked for. Denial of the crime prevents any true forgiveness from ever occurring.

All I can do is point out the dangers of accepting a religion that would practice the blood atonement doctrine which clearly led to the massacre.

Historical Christianity is based on LOVE and as you pointed out, Forgiveness.

Those slaughtered at Mountain Meadows were thought by Brigham Young and the church to be deserving of it due to what had happened to the Mormons in Missouri and the murder in Arkansas.

A revenge killing of over one hundred people and you have the audacity to talk to me about judgment and forgiveness?

try to wake up to the reality of our existence. You will find it much nicer than what you are attempting to defend.

have a nice evening.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#19858 Jan 29, 2013
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not judging people I am pointing out doctrines that I feel are harmful. Your religion teaches much that opposes historical Christianity.
The Mountain Meadows Massacre is just one example of the fruit of the teachings of your leaders. You downplay it and claim there is no evidence to prove anything but I disagree and so do a lot of other people. As to evidence, it's there. You just refuse to see it as to admit that Brigham Young was a murderer would shatter your faith in the church.
You talk of forgiveness?
I can't extend the forgiveness that should come from those who were slaughtered. That is not my place.
And there will never be forgiveness until it's asked for. Denial of the crime prevents any true forgiveness from ever occurring.
All I can do is point out the dangers of accepting a religion that would practice the blood atonement doctrine which clearly led to the massacre.
Historical Christianity is based on LOVE and as you pointed out, Forgiveness.
Those slaughtered at Mountain Meadows were thought by Brigham Young and the church to be deserving of it due to what had happened to the Mormons in Missouri and the murder in Arkansas.
A revenge killing of over one hundred people and you have the audacity to talk to me about judgment and forgiveness?
try to wake up to the reality of our existence. You will find it much nicer than what you are attempting to defend.
have a nice evening.
I find my existence very delightful as it is. I am not defending anything. Just once again stating that you are still beating a dead horse.
We all know that the Mountain Meadows massacre was a very real event. The controversy comes in , in who gave the orders. None of us really know who did it, or for that matter why. The blood atonement we have discussed many times as well. You know my thoughts on it, and I know yours.
I can easily talk of forgiveness, even though you seem to find it in bad taste on my part. Forgiveness is something offered by our heavenly father, and you are right, to receive it, it must be asked for. However to deny it, is to place ourselves in a position superior to Christ.
My point is merely that , how are any of us to judge the heart of another, or deny someone forgiveness and still consider ourselves Christian.
I am Mormon, I am Christian. I am not defined by my faith but in ways my faith does define me. Because of my beliefs, and my love of Christ I automatically love others. You can not have one without the other.

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