Connecting the dots but drawing the w...

Connecting the dots but drawing the wrong picture

There are 149 comments on the www.examiner.com story from Mar 6, 2012, titled Connecting the dots but drawing the wrong picture. In it, www.examiner.com reports that:

I have written many times that fundamentalist religion offers certainty to people whose spiritual state is mostly fearful of God and the afterlife.A It may be their upbringing and religious background, or it may be the exact opposite .A People who have little or no religious education can be influenced very strongly by what they see and hear in the ... (more)

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Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1 Mar 6, 2012
People who have little or no religious education can be influenced very strongly by what they see and hear....

EXACTLY!!!!
Listen to the Word

Needles, CA

#2 Mar 6, 2012
It is not a matter of fundamentalism or nonfundamentalism. It is a matter of following the simple words of scripture which revolve around Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#3 Mar 6, 2012
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
People who have little or no religious education can be influenced very strongly by what they see and hear...
Then they join TEC and stay ignorant because it politically indoctrinates, not religiously educates, its members.

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#4 Mar 6, 2012
This is beyond pitiful. It is as if one entered into the land of Never Never or Wonderland.

From the article:

The relevant part of the article, which appeared on the Huffington Post online, goes as follows:

“Pat Robertson has a theory for why tornadoes ripped through the Midwest last week: People didn't pray enough.

“Right Wing Watch found a clip of the television evangelist making the claim during an episode of ‘The 700 Club.’

"’If enough people were praying [God] would’ve intervened, you could pray, Jesus stilled the storm, you can still storms,’ Robertson said on the show.

**** Should we weep or laugh at the following?****

“Robertson also blamed people for living in tornado-prone areas.

"’Why did you build houses where tornadoes were apt to happen?’ he asked.”

I have a great idea. We should blame all the people that innocently died in the World Trade Center for being at work and placing themselves in the pathway of religious lunatics like Robertson.
George

Jacksonville, FL

#5 Mar 6, 2012
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
People who have little or no religious education can be influenced very strongly by what they see and hear....
EXACTLY!!!!
Perhaps, but answer this. Do you believe in a God who enters into our world? Does God answer prayer? Because the author's premise is that God does not, or at least not in any physical sense. If you belive that God answers prayer and does indeed enter into our world (see the Incarnation, for example), then it is not entirely outside the realm of reason to believe that God could impact the physical of our world, including the weather.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#6 Mar 6, 2012
George wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps, but answer this. Do you believe in a God who enters into our world? Does God answer prayer? Because the author's premise is that God does not, or at least not in any physical sense. If you belive that God answers prayer and does indeed enter into our world (see the Incarnation, for example), then it is not entirely outside the realm of reason to believe that God could impact the physical of our world, including the weather.
George,

Rev. Pat Robertson has a long history of drawing these inferences. It is not a good history. At All.

He suggested that Hurricane Katrina wiped out New orleans and a good stretch of the Gulf Coast because the people there were seriously sinful.

He said the Haitian earthquake was divine retribution upon the Haitians for centuries of having mixed Roman Catholicism with Voudoo.

There is much superstition out there, George. Take care that you are not a part of propagating it.

Rev. Ken
George

Jacksonville, FL

#7 Mar 6, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
George,
Rev. Pat Robertson has a long history of drawing these inferences. It is not a good history. At All.
He suggested that Hurricane Katrina wiped out New orleans and a good stretch of the Gulf Coast because the people there were seriously sinful.
He said the Haitian earthquake was divine retribution upon the Haitians for centuries of having mixed Roman Catholicism with Voudoo.
There is much superstition out there, George. Take care that you are not a part of propagating it.
Rev. Ken
And you take care in that by denying God's involvement in the world He created, He is not thereby denied as well.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#8 Mar 6, 2012
If God answered prayers, George would be posting from a different zip code.
George

Jacksonville, FL

#9 Mar 7, 2012
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
If God answered prayers, George would be posting from a different zip code.
Thank you Sel. I love you too.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#10 Mar 7, 2012
George wrote:
<quoted text>
And you take care in that by denying God's involvement in the world He created, He is not thereby denied as well.
Look, George,

The Haitians near Port Au Prince experienced a devastating earthquake, magnitude +7.0.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earth...

The quake occurred because of "plate tectonics" otherwise known as a shift of the Earth's crust. The resultant deaths are now understood to exceed 300,000. The great majority of these people were Roman Catholics, many of whom practice a religion steeped in Voudou.

The great 9.2 subduction quake that occurred off the coast of Sumatra in 2004 resulted in at least 230,000 deaths. The vast majority of these people were not Christians.

The monster quake that wiped out the coast north of Tokyo, Japan, last year and resulted in the compound meltdown of multiple nuclear reactors occurred in a country where most people practice a meld of the Shinto and Buddhist religions. Many died.

In the Pacific Northwest, where the cities of Seattle, Vancouver and Portland thrive today, the Pacific Plate is in a process of continuous subduction under the North American Plate. A whole string of active volcanoes exist there as a result. Periodically and regularly over the course of time, this area of the Northwest experiences massive quakes that generate tsunamis that wreak havoc at least 100 feet above normal sea level. These cities, depending upon the configuration, energy and timing of the next big subduction quake that WILL occur in this region, will undergo massive destuction and inundation by tsunami.

It has nothing to do with neighborhood sin, George.

Neither does it have anything to do with prayer.

But, the extent of the damage and the effectiveness of the response will have much to do with how humans use the knowledge that they are receiving and the plans that they are creating, knowing that such a quake must eventually occur.

In this regard, there are parallels that can be drawn between the residents in these areas and the story of Noah's Ark.

But, for you and me, it is no longer a matter of retributional superstitions.

Rev. Ken
George

Jacksonville, FL

#11 Mar 7, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Look, George,
The Haitians near Port Au Prince experienced a devastating earthquake, magnitude +7.0.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earth...
The quake occurred because of "plate tectonics" otherwise known as a shift of the Earth's crust. The resultant deaths are now understood to exceed 300,000. The great majority of these people were Roman Catholics, many of whom practice a religion steeped in Voudou.
The great 9.2 subduction quake that occurred off the coast of Sumatra in 2004 resulted in at least 230,000 deaths. The vast majority of these people were not Christians.
The monster quake that wiped out the coast north of Tokyo, Japan, last year and resulted in the compound meltdown of multiple nuclear reactors occurred in a country where most people practice a meld of the Shinto and Buddhist religions. Many died.
In the Pacific Northwest, where the cities of Seattle, Vancouver and Portland thrive today, the Pacific Plate is in a process of continuous subduction under the North American Plate. A whole string of active volcanoes exist there as a result. Periodically and regularly over the course of time, this area of the Northwest experiences massive quakes that generate tsunamis that wreak havoc at least 100 feet above normal sea level. These cities, depending upon the configuration, energy and timing of the next big subduction quake that WILL occur in this region, will undergo massive destuction and inundation by tsunami.
It has nothing to do with neighborhood sin, George.
Neither does it have anything to do with prayer.
But, the extent of the damage and the effectiveness of the response will have much to do with how humans use the knowledge that they are receiving and the plans that they are creating, knowing that such a quake must eventually occur.
In this regard, there are parallels that can be drawn between the residents in these areas and the story of Noah's Ark.
But, for you and me, it is no longer a matter of retributional superstitions.
Rev. Ken
I never said it was. But my questions remains. Do you believe in a God who answers prayer? Do you believe God enters into our world and influences events (see, the Incarnation)? If not, you cannot be a Christian unless you do some fancy tap dancing trying to explain away everything that Christians have beleived for 2,000 years. You cannot recite the Nicene Creed and mean it. I am not attributing any particular event to God's wrath or retribution so stop trying to put words into my mouth. but that is a far cry from denying that God interacts with the world.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#12 Mar 7, 2012
George wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it was. But my questions remains. Do you believe in a God who answers prayer? Do you believe God enters into our world and influences events (see, the Incarnation)? If not, you cannot be a Christian unless you do some fancy tap dancing trying to explain away everything that Christians have beleived for 2,000 years. You cannot recite the Nicene Creed and mean it. I am not attributing any particular event to God's wrath or retribution so stop trying to put words into my mouth. but that is a far cry from denying that God interacts with the world.
Because I openly rebuke those, including Rev. Pat Robertson, who would attribute massive destruction and death to be due to deserved retribution from God for their sinful ways...

instead of recognizing the actual movements of plate tectonics that are known to be occurring because of natural forces...

You accuse me of denying the Nicene Creed? Of denying the effectiveness of prayer? Of suggesting that Christ Jesus could not and did not heal or had no real control over the elements?

Go blow it out your rear sphincter and remember to wipe and flush, Georgeiekins. You are such a lovely Jerk.

In the meantime, I'll do as Christ directed and seek the Truth.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#13 Mar 7, 2012
RevKen wrote:
Go blow it out your rear sphincter and remember to wipe and flush, Georgeiekins. You are such a lovely Jerk.
In the meantime, I'll do as Christ directed ...
... is this how he "directed" you to "love your enemies"?

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#14 Mar 7, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... is this how he "directed" you to "love your enemies"?
No. This is how He directed me to reply to Georgiekin's baseless, arrogant, insulting, superstitious insinuations.

Arrogance. One of the lawyer's most commonly employed tools.

You know, the Yellowstone Caldera has been blowing its monstrous top on an average of every 650,000 to 750,000 years. Geologists have now found the actual evidence of the dang thing erupting with remarkable periodicity at least five times going back at least 3.5 million years, leaving a string of great big holes in a swath about a thousand miles long.

Guess what? Some time in the next hundred thousand years or so, it's going to do it again. Every time it does this, it covers the surrounding territory about five hundred miles in diameter with a couple hundred feet of ash. The ash fall extends all across the entire central North American continent. Illinois, fifteen hundred miles east, will likely be covered with about 15 feet of ash.

Anybody who wants to survive the eruption will probably have to move to another continent.

This "Act of God" has been repeating itself regularly since before Adam and Eve sinned and picked their first set of fashionista fig leaves or ever uttered their first prayer.

So,... You make the determination, Joe.

Is the death and destruction that always comes on the heels of the eruptions at Yellowstone a matter of homosexuals sinning in their hot tubs at Jackson Hole? Or is it simply the magma chamber at the Yellowstone Caldera ginning up on its normal 700,000 year schedule?

There is a lot of superstitious foolishness out there, Joe. And, there is no reason for either you or George to take any part in perpetuating any more of it than you can reasonably put to rest.

Rev. Ken

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#15 Mar 8, 2012
Rev. Ken...this is gong to blow the TOP off their pointy little tin foil covered heads....

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#16 Mar 8, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
No. This is how He directed me to reply to Georgiekin's baseless, arrogant, insulting, superstitious insinuations.
Arrogance. One of the lawyer's most commonly employed tools ...
Yet you can't see the "arrogance" of TEC when it dismisses the opinions of its disaffected members because they refuse to go along with it's New Age agenda?

And I've never heard you complain about any of PB Schori's army of lawyers, or has George become a Pharisee simply by disagreeing with you?
George

Jacksonville, FL

#17 Mar 8, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
No. This is how He directed me to reply to Georgiekin's baseless, arrogant, insulting, superstitious insinuations.
Arrogance. One of the lawyer's most commonly employed tools.
You know, the Yellowstone Caldera has been blowing its monstrous top on an average of every 650,000 to 750,000 years. Geologists have now found the actual evidence of the dang thing erupting with remarkable periodicity at least five times going back at least 3.5 million years, leaving a string of great big holes in a swath about a thousand miles long.
Guess what? Some time in the next hundred thousand years or so, it's going to do it again. Every time it does this, it covers the surrounding territory about five hundred miles in diameter with a couple hundred feet of ash. The ash fall extends all across the entire central North American continent. Illinois, fifteen hundred miles east, will likely be covered with about 15 feet of ash.
Anybody who wants to survive the eruption will probably have to move to another continent.
This "Act of God" has been repeating itself regularly since before Adam and Eve sinned and picked their first set of fashionista fig leaves or ever uttered their first prayer.
So,... You make the determination, Joe.
Is the death and destruction that always comes on the heels of the eruptions at Yellowstone a matter of homosexuals sinning in their hot tubs at Jackson Hole? Or is it simply the magma chamber at the Yellowstone Caldera ginning up on its normal 700,000 year schedule?
There is a lot of superstitious foolishness out there, Joe. And, there is no reason for either you or George to take any part in perpetuating any more of it than you can reasonably put to rest.
Rev. Ken
I accused you of nothing but you fly off the handle defending yourself against something I never said. Go back and read it. I don't attribute all evil and calamity to God's retribution. I merely asked if you disbelieve that God interacts with the physical world. The Nicene Creed absolutely professes a beleif in that interaction. I presume you say it and lead others in saying it. Do you believe it? Was He made flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit? Did He conquer death and rise fro the tomb? Is he coming again in Glory to judge the living and the dead? Why can't/won't you answer me?

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#18 Mar 8, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you can't see the "arrogance" of TEC when it dismisses the opinions of its disaffected members because they refuse to go along with it's New Age agenda?
And I've never heard you complain about any of PB Schori's army of lawyers, or has George become a Pharisee simply by disagreeing with you?
New Age agenda???

The Episcopal Church does not support or advocate a New Age agenda.

Three issues define the problems that TEC is facing.

1.) Allowing women and openly behaving homosexuals to serve as clergy.

2.) Recognizing the value of and fundamental precepts that Christians share with members of the world's other main religions.

3.) Placing medical, genetic and other scientific knowledge and discoved fact equal to or above the value of superstitious concepts that clearly exist in the body of dogmatic belief that is called Christian Doctrine. This includes finding and rooting out traditional hypocrisy and bigotry.

Essentially, this means that we actually take the Teachings of Christ Jesus seriously and determine to act upon them.

As for lawyers, arrogance is an intimidation tool often used effectively. The Pharisee was educated in the Law. Not all Pharisees were arrogant. Some were. Generally, their arrogance was a source of contention with Christ.

Why would I complain about the lawyers retained by TEC to pursue legal remedies. That is what they are hired to do. Is it a shame that we have to do this? Yep.

Is it important for TEC to pursue legal remedies concerning those who have absconded with Episcopal Church property and financial assets. Oh, yes! Force the absconders to the table and let them account for every Dollar that they have taken and spent. Make them give it up. Make them hire very expensive lawyers and force them to spend their grabbed bags of gold and silver.

In fact, if I were the Presiding Bishop, I would hire only Presbyterian lawyers. They are the best and not one Dollar paid to them would directly find its way back into TEC collection plates. Let this whole dastardly business bleed out all of the participants.

Maybe then, when it is all over but the shouting, we will all learn that money and property is not the basis for our faith or the source of our influence.

Rev. Ken

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#19 Mar 8, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age agenda???
The Episcopal Church does not support or advocate a New Age agenda.
Three issues define the problems that TEC is facing.
1.) Allowing women and openly behaving homosexuals to serve as clergy.
2.) Recognizing the value of and fundamental precepts that Christians share with members of the world's other main religions.
3.) Placing medical, genetic and other scientific knowledge and discoved fact equal to or above the value of superstitious concepts that clearly exist in the body of dogmatic belief that is called Christian Doctrine. This includes finding and rooting out traditional hypocrisy and bigotry.
Essentially, this means that we actually take the Teachings of Christ Jesus seriously and determine to act upon them.
As for lawyers, arrogance is an intimidation tool often used effectively. The Pharisee was educated in the Law. Not all Pharisees were arrogant. Some were. Generally, their arrogance was a source of contention with Christ.
Why would I complain about the lawyers retained by TEC to pursue legal remedies. That is what they are hired to do. Is it a shame that we have to do this? Yep.
Is it important for TEC to pursue legal remedies concerning those who have absconded with Episcopal Church property and financial assets. Oh, yes! Force the absconders to the table and let them account for every Dollar that they have taken and spent. Make them give it up. Make them hire very expensive lawyers and force them to spend their grabbed bags of gold and silver.
In fact, if I were the Presiding Bishop, I would hire only Presbyterian lawyers. They are the best and not one Dollar paid to them would directly find its way back into TEC collection plates. Let this whole dastardly business bleed out all of the participants.
Maybe then, when it is all over but the shouting, we will all learn that money and property is not the basis for our faith or the source of our influence.
Rev. Ken
Can I get an AMENZ!!?!

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#20 Mar 8, 2012
George wrote:
<quoted text>
I accused you of nothing but you fly off the handle defending yourself against something I never said. Go back and read it. I don't attribute all evil and calamity to God's retribution. I merely asked if you disbelieve that God interacts with the physical world. The Nicene Creed absolutely professes a beleif in that interaction. I presume you say it and lead others in saying it. Do you believe it? Was He made flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit? Did He conquer death and rise fro the tomb? Is he coming again in Glory to judge the living and the dead? Why can't/won't you answer me?
OK. Here is some of what you have written in the preceding posts, word for word, letter for letter:

"If you belive that God answers prayer and does indeed enter into our world (see the Incarnation, for example), then it is not entirely outside the realm of reason to believe that God could impact the physical of our world, including the weather."

I reply: Every lawyer - and you say you are a lawyer - who writes contracts is familiar with the phrase "Act of God." This phrase is a direct statement acknowledging that God impacts the physical of our world. I am not a lawyer. I am an ordained priest and disciple of Our Lord, Christ Jesus. Of course I believe God impacts the physical of our world. There is nothing that is NOT God.

"Do you believe in a God who answers prayer? Do you believe God enters into our world and influences events (see, the Incarnation)? If not, you cannot be a Christian unless you do some fancy tap dancing trying to explain away everything that Christians have beleived for 2,000 years. You cannot recite the Nicene Creed and mean it."

I reply: You have the unmitigated gall, the audacity, the arrogance, to suggest that an openly professing priest and disciple of Christ Jesus, with whom you have been having conversations for at least two years, cannot be a Christian and is trying to explain away everything that Christians have believed for the past 2,000 years. Your words. Not mine.

You know I believe and mean it. Either that or as you have suggested, I am a liar and so was Jesus.

"I accused you of nothing but you fly off the handle defending yourself against something I never said."

I reply: Well, you said it, wrote it, suggested it and insinuated it and now you are trying to back away from your own words.

"I presume you say it [the Nicene Creed] and lead others in saying it. Do you believe it?"

Here, you do it again, you arrogant JERK!

Now. Since you are obviously determined to persist in this insulting line of reasoning, why don't we just cut to the chase?

Do you believe that the Rev. Pat Robertson of the 700 Club is correct in stating that the Haitians have experienced the Wrath of God in retribution for having mixed their Catholicity with Voudou over the past few centuries?

Just so everybody knows where I stand, I do not believe what the Rev. Robertson says in this matter. In fact, I specifically and assuredly rebuke him for having even suggested it.

Or are the Haitians' deadly misfortunes a result of having unknowingly established a center of population directly over a deadly juncture of active fault zones in the Earth's crust, which crustal deformity recently let loose with the inevitability of a massive +7.0 quake without any particular prompting by human influence, prayer or otherwise, and without ANY form of retribution from God.

This latter is what I believe. And yes, it was an "Act of God." But, it was not an act of retribution.

What say you, Georgeikins?

Rev. Ken

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