created by: CitizenTopix | Oct 11, 2010

Oklahoma

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OK Health Care Freedom Amendment, State Question 756

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Jesse

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#31735
Oct 6, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
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Here is my point. In order to agree to raise the national debt last time both parties said that there would be severe cuts everywhere including the Military if they couldn't get a budget down before the next spending vote. Now both sides are finger pointing at each other and claiming "they never meant to cut the military". I keep bringing up the tanks because this is a prime example. But there are many more cases where the Pentagon has said we don't need something. There was the fighter jet the Pentagon said would be obsolete by the time it went into production but Trent Lott back then wouldn't hear it and rammed the plane through. The GOP does this sort of thing constantly and if anyone calls them on it they revert to the ole "you're anti our Military personal". That's a crock of shit. Nobody is more pro service people than I. But that doesn't mean we need to refurbish 10,000 more tanks at 30 million per tank when we have 30,000 already refurbished and sitting in mothballs. That's just spending to be spending.
Some say we will lose jobs if we don't keep the military contractors busy. Yes we might. But you can't demand deficit reduction and fiscal accountability if you don't get the military spending under control. I mean, my God, they have the largest spending budget of anyone in government that doesn't bring anything back. At least the seniors paid in. We can't sustain our current levels of Military spending. THAT was the downfall of the USSR. They simply went broke spending on the Military.
We give companies like Halliburton blank checks in a war without oversight and yet we can't buy body armor for our troops? That is just flat out wrong. If we're ever going to get this deficit under control the Military spending must be cut. The social security thing will bottom out once the boomers start dying which is not but a decade away. two decades and the problem is over with SS. But the Military spending is out of control with no end in sight. For us to have 300 million people and China to have 3 billion plus and we outspend China 10-1 on Military?
It's just irrational. We need a strong national defense and stop meddling in other countries affairs, stop being the world's policeman, stop going to war for the profit of the Military Industrial Complex. We can't afford this any longer.
If we stop policing the world. Countries that expect America to come in and assist them with military might should have a stake in the cost.

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#31736
Oct 6, 2012
 

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WMCOL wrote:
<quoted text>
==========
So you agree with Dusty that there should be no sacred cows? That theory covers an awful lot of territory---includes all corporate and social welfare. No safety valves.
As you already know I support workfare instead of welfare. I find it interesting that according to the Americans with Disabilities act the disabled are required to be considered equally as job applicants and yet we pay them with our tax dollars for being disabled. The reality would seem to be that very few Americans could not contribute in some way for their own support. Yet we have become a hypocritical nation in many ways.

We will put community service workers out alongside a road in orange vests picking up trash but for some reason when you put a thin chain around their ankles and they they are prisoners who have committed a far more serious crime, it suddenly becomes "demeaning" to require them to work doing the same thing.

Somehow it has also become "demeaning" to require someone on welfare to clean up their own neighborhood. Yet if I as a taxpayer, don't clean up my front yard I can be fined and eventually have my home seized and evicted.

On my way to visit my son, he asked if I would stop and pick up a six pack of beer. I stopped at Wal Mart Grocery and lo and behold they demanded I.D.. Now being 65 I found that funny and reached for my wallet only to find I had left it in my vehicle. They flat out refused to sell me the beer unless I went to the vehicle and got my I.D.. "Company policy".(Bought the beer down the street). YET people on welfare can use their entire EBT card on colas, candy, chips and donuts without a single restriction. That's just absurd to me.

Yes, I think there should be more restrictions on welfare. But I never said there should no social subsidies for individuals. What I said was there should be no subsidies for companies.
Jesse

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#31737
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Justaminute wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet they have every right to tell you what to do with your body especially if you are a female and who gets to use the word marriage. So watch the hits on Iran, today the churches announced that this Sunday they plan to talk politics in the pulpit. Kind of like a child that you say no that against our rules and they say 'make me.' There doing this full well knowing that there is not the will in election season or the staff of the IRS to make them comply with the law. That's how it starts. Maybe they want some of the Muslim compliance like that here in the US. If they really wanted let them give up their tax exempt status, because why should they be tax exempt. They should only be exempt on the actual charity work they do, not on their church property.
You keep referencing Iran, well Oklahoma doesn't mind making some dumb ass laws and our House Republicans don't either trying to limit a women rights they only difference is the name of the Religion.
Like I pointed out earlier that showed that free contraceptives limited abortions 70% and the Oklahoma turns around and defunds Planned Parenthood. Oh lets go nationwide, all Republican controlled states have tried or did defund Planned Parenthood which is the greatest source for low income women to obtain almost free birth control products.
So really, this thing you have about Iran when you talk to me is quite funny seeing how Iran is starting to be in crisis monetarily and there some actual pushback from the citizens from Iran and not one bullet or bomb was used to achieve it.
So really earlier you attacked me for being anti-christian, and your not huh? And you have attacked me about the abortion too, and tried to limit it to rape and life of the mother and then you turn around and talk about overpopulation. And now you would like to set yourself apart from Iran. They just take anti-choice further than you.
See that's why I call you a windmill, Dusty. You are perfectly fine with limits on a person as long as they are limits you approve of.
Try some contraceptives instead of killing babies because you didn't..simple concept easy to do.
Jesse

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#31738
Oct 6, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all you idiot I have been completely consistent in my view of religion. I'm opposed to ALL religion. I think our Constitution (regrettably) allows for freedom of religion but that should be restricted to place of worship and the home. You can bend that, shape it and distort it all you want. I am no more anti Christian than I am anti Muslim or any other religion. I'm anti RELIGION. You are pro Muslim and anti Christian. Big difference.
Next, I have stated many times including today that I am in favor of free birth control or at the very least easily available low cost birth control. I have also state numerous times that I am against surgical abortion as birth control, which I find your doing so abhorrent, but I have never once advocated legislating it out of existence and consistently advocated alternative means to lower the abortion rate. You're flat out lying here.
And for you to say I support right wing Okie politicians is laughable.
Finally, I have consistently advocated for taxing churches on their money making businesses.
So your whole post attacking me is one big lie.
That's what she consistently does LIE. There is hardly anyone I've seen on this thread that hasn't called her on her random lying.

She lies to just-be-lying!

Since: Apr 10

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#31739
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Justaminute wrote:
<quoted text>
Your a pretty simplistic person. Every thing is white and black to you. You like to generalize and your pretty pedantic for someone who likes to consider himself some where over the top of us in intelligence. In fact it's kinda boring after all this time on this message board. Your opinions are your own. Your compulsive need to place people in your little slots you have judged us to be is dismissive. Well so be it. You become more temperamental and verbally antagonistic when your challenged on your pet theories. Your a narcissist. That's funny that someone who consider himself to be so superior would confine himself to this little board.
But your just another fish in a little pond and you don't seem to venture out into larger venues. I know a board with Jews on it that would call you out in a New York minute for your careless use of the term Nazi and a very Jewish grandma that would kick you in the nuts for using the term Femi Nazi. That's why you hang out on here because you can't be challenged by people that know better. I've been on that board years before being on this one. You won't last a minute with your crap.
Let me make sure everyone understands you. You're bragging about being a Keyboard Commando longer than I have been? We're both wasting time so how is it that you wasting more time makes you more important? The difference in you and I is that I know what is said here doesn't change one single thing. I understand we're less than small fish in a small pond. We're sardines in the ocean.

I don't have to put people in "little slots". People put themselves in those slots. You make it quite clear you're a fem Nazi. The only difference in you and Hitler's "values" is that your "enemy" is white men along with the Jews. You've made it crystal clear that your fat ass would kill off all the white men and Israel if that were in your power. Hitler thought he was all the religion people needed and you think liberalism is all the religion people need. I don't think people need religion at all.

Your rhetoric is all inclusive for everyone except white men and Jews. Hilter's rhetoric was all inclusive for everyone except Jews and those he didn't like. Sorta like you.

But the most telling of all is Hitler was a ugly little man with a Napoleonic complex and you are a fat little woman with a Napoleonic complex.

The major difference in Hitler and someone like you or the religious fundamentalist right is Hitler came along before instant communication was possible and he did a lot undercover before it was understood what he was up to. So he got away with it for a while. But you'd do the same thing, different victims except for the common bond in hating the Jews, that he did if you could get away with it. You're just another petty wanna be dictator.
SayWhat

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#31740
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Justaminute wrote:
Heck, they don't want to think about how many children and women and men died in Iraq in our search for those WMD but heck they should understand our Woops we thought he had WMD. Sorry about your child but heck we are the worlds policeman.
Lady, you would be better off talking about other things than children. You don't have the right to condemn a military mission in Iraq or other countries for having some collateral damage that happens in incursions. No one likes that the military doesn't LIKE unnecessary deaths ask your son why don't you? Next, in a military mission those service people ARE SENT by our president/congress to enforce a mission, they don't just randomly decide to go kill somebody.

But, that's exactly what you did when you chose to terminate your baby, you had other choices no one FORCED you to make that decision. What is truly sad is contraceptions were available as Dee Smith,Misty,Tamara and other testified so there were choices for you. Then you posted in one of your rants that you would DO IT AGAIN!

No, when it come to children you would be better to leave it alone!
SayWhat

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#31741
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Justaminute wrote:
<quoted text>
Agra-business is the big beneficiary of our largess to farmers. Not the individual farmer. Otherwise we would take global climate change more seriously and especially Oklahoma. Like fraking does nothing to drinking water supplies or that pipeline from Canada. But it's starting to get you attention now because we have had 2 years of constant drought. You think food costs are high now, you haven't seen anything yet. The cost of this year's drought are just slowing becoming realized but next year, oh boy. At least that is what food suppliers are telling us in the Restaurant.
So really if your going to keep electing Republicans in the state and in the nation, your going to pay for your denial of science right now in the future on what it costs for you to eat and the subsidies you help poor people eat. The future cost are going to be born by your children and the next generation. Because frankly we've been fiddling while Rome burns. So in the scheme of food and water, deficits are going to be a blimp on their general well being. But heck, if your over 50 you'll be dead.
The single largest reason for cost of food is the cost of gasoline/diesel.
Jesse

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#31742
Oct 6, 2012
 

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WMCOL wrote:
<quoted text>
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So you agree with Dusty that there should be no sacred cows? That theory covers an awful lot of territory---includes all corporate and social welfare. No safety valves.
I think those who paid into social security/medicare should receive the benefits they paid for period. They paid for it for years, end of story.

There is corporate welfare and giveaways that are directed to pet projects i.e. political cronies, if we eliminated this we would eliminate an avenue of corruption. I would be in favor of elimating lobbyist they rule congress. Dusty always says follow the money...well follow the money.

Since: Jul 10

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#31743
Oct 6, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
As you already know I support workfare instead of welfare. I find it interesting that according to the Americans with Disabilities act the disabled are required to be considered equally as job applicants and yet we pay them with our tax dollars for being disabled. The reality would seem to be that very few Americans could not contribute in some way for their own support. Yet we have become a hypocritical nation in many ways.
We will put community service workers out alongside a road in orange vests picking up trash but for some reason when you put a thin chain around their ankles and they they are prisoners who have committed a far more serious crime, it suddenly becomes "demeaning" to require them to work doing the same thing.
Somehow it has also become "demeaning" to require someone on welfare to clean up their own neighborhood. Yet if I as a taxpayer, don't clean up my front yard I can be fined and eventually have my home seized and evicted.
On my way to visit my son, he asked if I would stop and pick up a six pack of beer. I stopped at Wal Mart Grocery and lo and behold they demanded I.D.. Now being 65 I found that funny and reached for my wallet only to find I had left it in my vehicle. They flat out refused to sell me the beer unless I went to the vehicle and got my I.D.. "Company policy".(Bought the beer down the street). YET people on welfare can use their entire EBT card on colas, candy, chips and donuts without a single restriction. That's just absurd to me.
Yes, I think there should be more restrictions on welfare. But I never said there should no social subsidies for individuals. What I said was there should be no subsidies for companies.
==========
Excellent points.

On subsidies, they are essentially government regulation. The Gov is telling someone what they can and can't do and how they can and can't do it.

Mitt says he does not dislike PBS, Sesame Stret, Big Bird, what he does not like is government regulation.

Big Bird is not the issue here.

The issue is what right does Federal Government have to regulate and how should it be decided what and who to regulate, and when and where, and under what circumstances.

Obama nor Romney care much, if any, about Big Bird, but they do have differing views on regulation, and what is in "the best interest of the General Public" as opposed to "best interest of the few".

Romney would gladly acquiesce to subsidies to Big Bird in exchange for ending regulation of corporations.

Subsidies are here to stay. Obama wants more to Big Bird(humanity/education) and less to corporations while Romeny wants more to corporations(special interests of elites), and less to Big Bird(education) Different values with both having "potential" for good to society with Romney's way less so. We will decide which course we take on November 6.

Since: Jul 10

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#31744
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Justaminute wrote:
<quoted text>
Agra-business is the big beneficiary of our largess to farmers. Not the individual farmer. Otherwise we would take global climate change more seriously and especially Oklahoma. Like fraking does nothing to drinking water supplies or that pipeline from Canada. But it's starting to get you attention now because we have had 2 years of constant drought. You think food costs are high now, you haven't seen anything yet. The cost of this year's drought are just slowing becoming realized but next year, oh boy. At least that is what food suppliers are telling us in the Restaurant.
So really if your going to keep electing Republicans in the state and in the nation, your going to pay for your denial of science right now in the future on what it costs for you to eat and the subsidies you help poor people eat. The future cost are going to be born by your children and the next generation. Because frankly we've been fiddling while Rome burns. So in the scheme of food and water, deficits are going to be a blimp on their general well being. But heck, if your over 50 you'll be dead.
==========
Your comments on rising prices could have come directly from Glen Beck's preaching over the past several years. Different reasons however, but same results.

Since: Jul 10

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#31745
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Jesse wrote:
<quoted text>
I think those who paid into social security/medicare should receive the benefits they paid for period. They paid for it for years, end of story.
There is corporate welfare and giveaways that are directed to pet projects i.e. political cronies, if we eliminated this we would eliminate an avenue of corruption. I would be in favor of elimating lobbyist they rule congress. Dusty always says follow the money...well follow the money.
==========
Funny thing, everyone thinks Congress sucks, but everyone also thinks their representatives are doing a good job.

As long as we think our representatives we send to Washington are doing a great job, nothing will change with the lobbying system that controls this country.

And I know we think our elected officials are great, because we keep electing them and not those who would take a different approach to governance. So in essence we always get the guv'mint we deserve. We the people do it.
Jesse

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#31746
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Justaminute wrote:
Heck, they don't want to think about how many children and women and men died in Iraq in our search for those WMD but heck they should understand our Woops we thought he had WMD. Sorry about your child but heck we are the worlds policeman.
Whenever congress and the president sends thousands of soldiers into a country in war people will die that is what happens in WAR.
The soldiers aren't randoming killing women and children that's not their mission. What happens is people die (collateral damage)for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. America tries to avoid unnecessary death it's planned into the mission to avoid unnecessary death.

Now, is about the time for justaliar to post one of her notoriously famous statements like "My son doesn't kill people!, you stupid wingnuts act like he's in the infantry! My son is a pilot in the Navy and an OFFICER. He doesn't use a rifle or hand gun! How stupid are you republican winguts? You republicans haven't got a clue all you want to do is regulate who I can love legally and how I use by uterus! You people are uneducated and stupid! My son isn't like the soldiers that killed all those innocent women and children in Iraq, instead MY SON DROPPED BOMBS!"

Welcome to the world of the loonies!

Since: Jul 10

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#31747
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Jesse wrote:
<quoted text>
Whenever congress and the president sends thousands of soldiers into a country in war people will die that is what happens in WAR.
The soldiers aren't randoming killing women and children that's not their mission. What happens is people die (collateral damage)for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. America tries to avoid unnecessary death it's planned into the mission to avoid unnecessary death.
Now, is about the time for justaliar to post one of her notoriously famous statements like "My son doesn't kill people!, you stupid wingnuts act like he's in the infantry! My son is a pilot in the Navy and an OFFICER. He doesn't use a rifle or hand gun! How stupid are you republican winguts? You republicans haven't got a clue all you want to do is regulate who I can love legally and how I use by uterus! You people are uneducated and stupid! My son isn't like the soldiers that killed all those innocent women and children in Iraq, instead MY SON DROPPED BOMBS!"
Welcome to the world of the loonies!
==========
>>>My son isn't like the soldiers that killed all those innocent women and children in Iraq, instead MY SON DROPPED BOMBS!"<<<

Wanna explain that and show how bombs don't take innocent life?
Jesse

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#31748
Oct 6, 2012
 

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WMCOL wrote:
<quoted text>
==========
>>>My son isn't like the soldiers that killed all those innocent women and children in Iraq, instead MY SON DROPPED BOMBS!"<<<
Wanna explain that and show how bombs don't take innocent life?
Helloooo? Your supposed to be one of the bright ones here??? Well I was using justaliar's thought process to show how loony tuned her rants are most of the time.

Sorry you missed my attempt at humorous instruction!
SayWhat

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#31749
Oct 6, 2012
 

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WMCOL wrote:
<quoted text>
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>>>My son isn't like the soldiers that killed all those innocent women and children in Iraq, instead MY SON DROPPED BOMBS!"<<<
Wanna explain that and show how bombs don't take innocent life?
WTF? You've got to be kidding? Really? Ah come on you can't possibly be that dense?

I can't believe it... LMFAO

Geez!:D

Dude re-read the entire post you responded to...LOL
Katmandu

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#31750
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Jesse wrote:
<quoted text>
Helloooo? Your supposed to be one of the bright ones here??? Well I was using justaliar's thought process to show how loony tuned her rants are most of the time.
Sorry you missed my attempt at humorous instruction!
Hey, I thought your post was spot on and funny as hell! Maybe it's a liberal mental block that's causing a problem?

LOL
TAMARA

Edmond, OK

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#31751
Oct 6, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
While I would agree that the amount of taxpayer funding that goes into PBS is miniscule compared to virtually any Corporate welfare, I wonder on what grounds you justify that funding? Kiddies? Nope. Seasame Street and Thomas the Train and Big Red Dog would find alternative channels. I can understand the theory of PBS back when there was 4-5 channels. I can't today.
I have spent several days watching and tracking what is on PBS. I tend to agree with Dusty. I also can understand the theory of
the government funding back when there were 4 or 5 channels. But from what I saw now on PBS it should not be funded by the government.
Most kids are in day care and Big Bird and such programs are not being used as a learning tool. So I would say very small percent gets anything from these programs. I agree this government funding could be put to better use. That is if are government is smart enough to do this!

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#31752
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Jesse wrote:
<quoted text>
Helloooo? Your supposed to be one of the bright ones here??? Well I was using justaliar's thought process to show how loony tuned her rants are most of the time.
Sorry you missed my attempt at humorous instruction!
==========
I actually thought I was responding to Minute.
Justaminute

Oklahoma City, OK

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#31753
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Jesse wrote:
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That's what she consistently does LIE. There is hardly anyone I've seen on this thread that hasn't called her on her random lying.
She lies to just-be-lying!
Poor Jesse or who ever you are! I never said anything to you that was a lie that obviously burst your little wingnut bubble. In fact you use the tell that all wingnuts use by chanting 'lie, liar, lying liar' but don't say what is the lie or give proof that it was a lie. I know you wingnuts are butthurt right now when you thought you had a win after the debates, then all you little sandcastles that you had painstaking built up came crashing down with the jobs report. Well just know, your candidates are all built out of sand and it doesn't taken much to blow them away. LOL Loser!

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#31754
Oct 6, 2012
 
TAMARA wrote:
<quoted text>I have spent several days watching and tracking what is on PBS. I tend to agree with Dusty. I also can understand the theory of
the government funding back when there were 4 or 5 channels. But from what I saw now on PBS it should not be funded by the government.
Most kids are in day care and Big Bird and such programs are not being used as a learning tool. So I would say very small percent gets anything from these programs. I agree this government funding could be put to better use. That is if are government is smart enough to do this!
==========
Well bless you. I haven't watched PBS that much since my children were pre-school. They loved the programming. They really got involved with the learning process. Helped them immensely. The bad thing about it is they were bored out of their minds during the first few years of school. Then things began to level out and it was not all positive.

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