Analysis: Chinese electric taxis struggle to win mass appeal

Jun 29, 2011 Full story: Reuters 35

A pioneering electric taxi project in China's southern economic powerhouse of Shenzhen seems a success by most accounts.

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“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#1 Jun 29, 2011
The EV industry can go either of two ways, boom or bust, people who buy into the early idea will be disappointed, as new technology becomes available, replacing yesterdays.
In this rapidly changing technologogical world, it won't be like the old days of the Model T being produced from 1909 to 1927, or the original VW Beetle, 1938 to 1976, with only slight modifications over the period.
The Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf will be out of date in about two years.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#2 Jun 29, 2011
piddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
...... it won't be like the old days of the Model T being produced from 1909 to 1927......
The Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf will be out of date in about two years.
In 1955 one of the deck hands on a ferry saw a brand new Model T drive onto the ferry. Thinking it was some renovation or Model T copy, he watched as 2 seniors get out of the T. Curious, the deckhand talked with the seniors & got the following story.

In 1925 they loved the Model T so much they bought two of them. Driving only one of them, the first one had finally worn out. So in 1955, they began driving the second one. They found the Model T to be meet their needs & did not agree that it was out-of-date.

In the Volt's & Leaf's cases, barring a new technological leap, they will provide owners nearly the same efficiency as future EVs & much more efficiency than ICE(internal combustion engines). If owners can satisfy themselves with the short range, then drive on....... & be happy. One person's technological advancement may later be another person's delightful anachronism.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#4 Jun 29, 2011
Electric Cars Doomed by Technology Shortcomings?
A report in the magazine of the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) has cast doubt on the ability of electric vehicles (EVs) to ever supersede conventional models, just as many manufacturers report significant progress with pre-launch trials.

An investigation by Engineering and Technology (E&T) Magazine, published by influential UK-based engineering and electrical body the IET, has suggested that the current inefficiencies of batteries and the investment needed in infrastructure for EVs may mean that governments would do better to focus their efforts on high-efficiency diesel models and hybrids.
http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm...
bronck burger

Bayonne, NJ

#5 Jun 29, 2011
HA-HA-HA-HO-ho-HO ONE FROM COLUME A and ONE FROM COLUME B and please include extra hot sauce. BUCK TOOTHED COMMIE'S
Some American born STUPID

Skudai, Malaysia

#6 Jun 29, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
The EV industry can go either of two ways, boom or bust, people who buy into the early idea will be disappointed, as new technology becomes available, replacing yesterdays.
In this rapidly changing technologogical world, it won't be like the old days of the Model T being produced from 1909 to 1927, or the original VW Beetle, 1938 to 1976, with only slight modifications over the period.
The Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf will be out of date in about two years.
True.
In the US where the US Petroleum Companies ruled supreme. Thes companies have been buying and burying all the innovative alternative stuffs in order to protect their interests.
But in a STATE CAPITALIST country like China, these companies have NO SAYS. SO these US Petroleum Companies and others best defense is to invest in PROPAGANDA and sabotage what goes against their interest.

Driven by NEW ENERGY VEHICLE STRATEGY, China Li ion Battery may seen explosion growth.
June 8, 2011

China’s Li-ion battery industry may see explosive growth in the next three to five years due to the factors like new energy vehicle strategy, environmental problems of lead-acid batteries, and the transfer of Japan’s Li-ion battery industry to China after March 11 earthquake.
The Li-ion battery manufacturers intending to attend the 3rd China (Shanghai) International Battery Industry Fair doubled from a year earlier and become a major force of the fair.
Fatboy

Bromma, Sweden

#7 Jun 30, 2011
B.Y.D has supplied statecontrolled Pengcheng Taxi with 50 of their model e6 E.Vs.

What this nice and cute story fails to mention is that B.Y.Ds experiment CLEARLY shows,That for a private runned Taxicompany where the "magic" word is PROFIT,The e6 can simply not deliver the necessary performance to justify it's much higher pricetag.
FAR FROM IT!

B.Y.D e6 for a cleaner enviroment?YUP!!
B.Y.D e6 for your daily bread?Well how about...LOL?!
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#8 Jun 30, 2011
piddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
Electric Cars Doomed by Technology Shortcomings?
Of course, not. EVs don't have to supersede ICE(internal combustion engines). To whatever level electric vehicles can be effectively used, EVs already can be a part of multi-vehicle households. EVs are more economical than ICE, which millions of households are & will discover. As far as economics is concerned, ICE is beaten already. Now ICE is scared & strong efforts are being made to raise EPA MPG(Hyundai Elantra & Chevy Eco Cruze-40+MPG). However, in stop& go traffic, ICE is still mired & MPG drop precipitously. But EV equivalent MPG approaches 100+MPG... whether on the highway OR IN CITY TRAFFIC.

See, already EVs are having a strong impact. ICE now has competition. repubs, oil, energy, & business would see the advantage of competition. Except repubs, oil, energy & business have been backing the wrong horse(powers), when they should have backed the watt-powers.

In one fell swoop, electric motors (90+% efficiency) beat ICE(25-30% efficiency). In 2 fell swoops, EVs can eliminate almost all pollution that is affecting children's health who live, school & play near stop&go clogged freeways (what a misnomer). In 3 fell swoops, EVs eliminate the 28 pounds of CO2 per gallon of ICE, including the fuel used by gas tankers to deliver fuel to gas stations.

"piddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling" has no upper level mathematics or science background & has made errors of as much as 500 million TIMES.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#9 Jun 30, 2011
Correction of above post:

'28 pounds of CO2 per gallon of ICE' should be:
'28 pounds of CO2 per gallon of gas'.
TRUTH

New York, NY

#10 Jun 30, 2011
Some American born STUPID wrote:
<quoted text>
True.
In the US where the US Petroleum Companies ruled supreme. Thes companies have been buying and burying all the innovative alternative stuffs in order to protect their interests.
But in a STATE CAPITALIST country like China, these companies have NO SAYS. SO these US Petroleum Companies and others best defense is to invest in PROPAGANDA and sabotage what goes against their interest.
Driven by NEW ENERGY VEHICLE STRATEGY, China Li ion Battery may seen explosion growth.
June 8, 2011
China’s Li-ion battery industry may see explosive growth in the next three to five years due to the factors like new energy vehicle strategy, environmental problems of lead-acid batteries, and the transfer of Japan’s Li-ion battery industry to China after March 11 earthquake.
The Li-ion battery manufacturers intending to attend the 3rd China (Shanghai) International Battery Industry Fair doubled from a year earlier and become a major force of the fair.
This is true. China alone can make it happen. Since it's not greed driven like capitalistic fools, China can do the right thing.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#11 Jul 1, 2011
The Taxi is the only public transportation network that makes a profit; people are willing to pay to take a cab but trains require public subsidy for their survival. Only green policy could screw up a Taxi system.
Many FAKE American here

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#14 Jul 1, 2011
IMO only a STATE CAPITALIST such as China can and will succeed in pushing massive green project such as EV because they have both the WILL and the DETERMINATION.

Take a look at this survey.
Research: Chinese Consumers Most Likely to Buy EV
Apr 20, 2011
Naoshige Shimizu, Nikkei Automotive Technology

Deloitte Tohmatsu Consulting Co Ltd announced the results of its consumer research on electric vehicles (EVs) April 19, 2011.

The company published part of the results concerning consumers in China, the US, Europe and Japan. According to the results, consumers in China showed the MOST POSITIVE ATTITUDES toward EVs while those in Japan showed the MOST NEGATIVE ATTITUDES. For example, while 50% of the Chinese consumers are likely to purchase or lease an EV within a year, only 4% of the Japanese consumers are likely to do that.

The research was conducted on the Internet with 1,163, 1,007, 4,760 and 2,075 general consumers, respectively, in China, the US, Europe (seven countries) and Japan during the period from November 2010 to March 2011. It contains four major items:(1) consumer segment analysis,(2) vehicle price,(3) charging time and (4) travel distance.

In the consumer segment analysis, the percentage of consumers who are highly interested in purchasing an EV was researched. The percentage of consumers who are likely to purchase or lease an EV within a year is 50% in China, 12% in the US, 16% in Europe and 4% in Japan.

The second item is about how much additional cost consumers are willing to pay for EVs in comparison with gasoline vehicles. Consumers in Japan turned out to be the severest about EVs' prices, and 63% of them answered that they will consider purchasing or leasing an EV if its price is equivalent to or lower than that of a comparable gasoline vehicle. In other regions, the percentage is between 51 and 57%.

The third item is about the charging time that makes consumers consider buying or leasing an EV. And consumers in Japan demanded the shortest charging time. The percentage of the consumers who demanded a full charging time of two hours or less is 81% in Japan, 67% in Europe, 60% in the US and 55% in China.

As for the fourth item, consumers in Japan reported the shortest travel distance. The percentage of consumers whose travel distance on a weekday is less than 80km is 94% in Japan, 80% in Europe, 79% in the US and 77% in China.

Here is another interesting article from The Economist July 2, 2011
Excerpts:
The Chinese government wants to have 500,000 electric cars, lorries and buses on Chinese roads by 2015 and 5m by 2020. It is providing customers with subsidies worth up to 60,000 yuan ($9,250) and other incentives, too. If it carries on doing so, electric cars and plug-in hybrid s could account for 7%of new-car sales in China by 2020, says a forthcoming report by th e Boston Consulting Group.
That would make China the biggest market for electric vehicles, by volume, in the world.
Foreign firms are salivating. But they are also nervous. "The price for market access has gone up," says Michael Dunne,the president of Dunne & Co,a
car consultancy in Hong Kong. Foreign producers are being told about new "draft" rules which mean they must share more intellectual property and branding rights with their Chinese joint venture partners, he says.
Fatboy

Bromma, Sweden

#15 Jul 1, 2011
Many FAKE American here wrote:
IMO only a STATE CAPITALIST such as China can and will succeed in pushing massive green project such as EV because they have both the WILL and the DETERMINATION.
Most things in your post is well known,not much to argue about.

China will play a crucial role in the development of E.Vs,WHO HAS SUGGESTED ANYTHING ELSE?!!

But will B.Y.D be one of those players?
They better get that uneven quality for their e6 in order or else..
http://www.chinacartimes.com/2011/06/29/byds-...

The e6 will soon hit the American market,now with befeed up batteries and longer recharge time.

B.Y.D claims that the American version will have a 321Km driving range, Now thats a hole lot more compared to the average of 170Km obtained by the Shenzhen taxis.
It will be interesting.

For the many rich Chinese buyers,A REAL E.V will be offerd to them in 2012...MADE IN THE U.S.A..
http://www.cartype.com/pics/7009/full/tesla_m...
American are so STUBBORN

Petaling Jaya, Malaysia

#16 Jul 1, 2011
Fatboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Most things in your post is well known,not much to argue about.
China will play a crucial role in the development of E.Vs,WHO HAS SUGGESTED ANYTHING ELSE?!!
But will B.Y.D be one of those players?
They better get that uneven quality for their e6 in order or else..
The e6 will soon hit the American market,now with befeed up batteries and longer recharge time.
B.Y.D claims that the American version will have a 321Km driving range, Now thats a hole lot more compared to the average of 170Km obtained by the Shenzhen taxis.
It will be interesting.
For the many rich Chinese buyers,A REAL E.V will be offerd to them in 2012...MADE IN THE U.S.A..
I disagree! In fact most folks are unaware of the current development of EV!

But why are you in a hurry to prove yourself right?

When the BYD e6 hit the USA market then you will know the answer!

Time will tell whether or not BYD E6 is a worthy competitor after all Warren Buffet is NO Fool or NEW when it comes to INVESTMENT or identifying a wining products.

BYD is not the only company in China engaged in this green EV project. There are so many e.g. Haima, SAIC, Chery, Hafei, Lifan, etc

Personally I would like to see it succeed, seeing how the Middle Eastern and the Oil Carter manipulated gasoline prices which has escalated to record high nowadays despite the fact there is no shortage in supply.

But like I says I do not see EV revolution happening in USA because the US Oil Carter is only interested in protecting their own interest and not the American consumers interest!
USA will be frozen in a TIME WARP and green projects like HSR and EV will slowly take off after the rest of the world have theirs.

Maybe by then, gasoline will be dirt cheap because no other nations are using it and USA remains the king of ICE.
But what about USA commitment to the environment?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#17 Jul 1, 2011
Before raising taxes, Obama should sell his dog Bo on eBay.
Many FAKE American here

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#18 Jul 1, 2011
E6 is gaining popularity with taxi-go’ers but not with the operators
June 29, 2011

Reuters has some good analysis on the state of the E6 taxi pilot project which has seen BYD’s flagship pure electric vehicle take to Shenzhen’s roads over the past year. It appears that the E6 is gaining popularity with taxi-go’ers but not with the operators who say that the car is too expensive when compared to the VW Santana. Taxi riders appear to like the E6&#8242;s size and lack of a fuel surcharge that was introduced to help taxi drivers cover the cost of expensive fuel.

From Reuters
The pilot project, which could be replicated in other cities, underpins China’s ambitious plans to put at least half a million electric vehicles (EV) and plug-in hybrids on the road by 2015.
The country is already the world’s biggest emitter of greenhouse gases from burning fossil fuels and other human activities that scientists say are causing global warming.
As the world’s largest and fastest-growing auto market, China’s carbon footprint can only grow.
To bolster China’s energy security, Beijing has pronounced the electric vehicle industry a top priority, earmarking $1.5 billion annually for the next 10 years in the hope it can transform the country into one of the leading producers of clean vehicles.
But even with government support and the popular support of e-taxi customers, challenges remain for electric vehicles such as the e-taxis to gain broader acceptance and widespread use.
Charging stations are few and far between, repair shops are hard to find and the cars are costly. Even after generous government support, the Shenzhen e-taxi costs 80 percent more than the Volkswagen Santana that ordinarily cruises the streets of Shenzhen.
“The electric car is still too expensive and we ended up paying a lot more than for a (VW) Santana, even with government subsidies,” said Du Jun, general manager of Pengcheng E-taxi, the taxi operator participating in the pilot project.

Local automakers, from SAIC Motor to Dongfeng Motor Group Co, have pledged massive investments in greener vehicles. Global automakers, including BMW and Nissan Motor, are also working with local governments to roll out their E-Mini and Leaf respectively.

The country’s investment in the electric vehicle industry has no comparable program in the United States, although the U.S. Congress is considering a bill that would allocate $2.9 billion for a program to help develop the infrastructure for the widespread use of electric cars.

Germany’s cabinet agreed on plans in May to boost the country’s electric auto sector with billions of euros in subsidies, aiming to have 1 million of the cars on the road by 2020. Berlin’s move will double state support for research and development to 2 billion euros through 2013.

For China to hit its EV targets however, will mean quickly winning market acceptance for an untested technology.

“I think it’s going to be a very, very long time because the Chinese consumer, at the end of the day, is very pragmatic and wants a reliable car with a gasoline engine. They don’t want to be the ones experimenting,” said Michael Dunne, president of industry consultancy Dunne & Co. in Hong Kong.
“You’re going to see government fleets buying, buses buying, not a mass movement toward electrics, definitely within the five years.”
Many FAKE American here

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#19 Jul 1, 2011
In 2009, the Chinese government picked Shenzhen, along with 12 other cities, to lead the migration to green vehicles. Shenzhen and Hangzhou are the only ones attempting to launch e-taxi fleets.
State-controlled Pengcheng E-Taxi, partly owned by BYD, a major domestic manufacturer of green vehicles, was incorporated in March 2010. Fifty e6 cabs, made by the Warren Buffett-backed automaker, hit the roads in the city three months later.
“People are really INTERESTED in the car. Over 90 percent of customers start asking questions once they get in. And it’s not just me. All my colleagues have similar experiences as well,” said Zeng Xiweng, one of the company’s top drivers.
Shenzhen resident Daniel Li recently took a ride in an electric taxi, one of the red cars with a wavy white band around the body that have been OPERATING around the southern Chinese city for MORE THAN A YEAR.
“I like the car. It’s BIG and STURDY, pretty much like an SUV but NOT as NOISY. It also saves me the 3 yuan fuel surcharge,” the 32-year old software engineer said as he got out of the taxi.“The PROBLEM is there aren’t many out there.”

BYD is using the pilot project to gather market feedback and make adjustments to the vehicles before rolling out the electric car nationwide.
“We had anticipated a lot of problems early on, but that DID NOT HAPPEN and the data we’ve collected are ACTUALLY BETTER than what we got in lab tests,” Stella Li, senior vice president of BYD, said in an interview.
But for Du Jun of Pengcheng, the project’s hurdles are apparent. The company is still sitting on a big loss that Du blames on hefty upfront investments, INSUFFICIENT CHARGING SPOTS and the limited distance that an EV can travel per charge.
And then there’s the cost. Though cheaper to operate, BYD’s e6 taxi costs 179,800 yuan ($28,000) after deducting 120,000 billion yuan in subsidies, compared with less than 100,000 yuan for Volkswagen’s Santana.
In Hangzhou, a similar green pilot program stumbled when all the 30 of the city’s electric taxis, which appeared on the streets in late January, were pulled from service in April after one cab’s engine compartment caught fire. The fleet resumed operations in June.
“Taxis are definitely a smart way for people to gain the kind of practical hands-on, in-the-field experience, but it will be very closely watched,” said William Russo, an industry veteran who runs the Synergistics consulting firm in Beijing.

LONG-TERM BET
For their part, automakers have decided that China’s green-car drive is a good bet, but BYD has more at stake than others.
The company, 10 percent-owned by Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, has been pushing more aggressively into clean technologies, from plug-in hybrids to energy storage facilities. The company recently raised $219 million in an IPO in Shenzhen to help fund battery research.
It has sold several hundred of the F3DM plug-in hybrid in China so far, more than any other domestic automakers, and its e6 will be available in showrooms in Beijing and Shenzhen in the second half.
BYD plans to deliver 250 more e6 cabs to Pengcheng by August. It will also provide 200 of its electric buses in coming months to the city’s public transportation system.
An electric sedan, jointly developed BYD and Daimler, will also be launched by 2013, Li said.
Green cars have yet to take off with ordinary consumers, though, despite consumer subsidies that Beijing started offering last year in some cities.
In Shanghai for example, a metropolitan area with a population of more than 20 million, there are only 10 registered electric cars, while the number in Hangzhou is only slightly higher at 25, according to China Business News.
“Consumers are less concerned about government interests. They are more concerned about the economics and the real practical side of what it means to own an electric vehicle,” said Synergistics’ Russo.“They are not going to buy an EV to save the planet. They will buy it only when it saves them money.”
HCM

New York, NY

#20 Jul 1, 2011
China doesn't need any more pollutants which gasoline guarantees. It's a big mess.

Electric is the wave of the future.
Many FAKE American here

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#21 Jul 1, 2011
BYD E6 American Edition render leaked.
July 1, 2011

BYD maybe having some financial trouble at home in China but this has not deterred them from their plans to take on the American market. For the American market it looks like the E6 will be getting some minor changes to the front end and will also have an improved interior according to media reports. The E6&#8242;s tech specs are still being reported as 60kW iron batteries which should be able to PROPEL the E6 for 321km on a full charge which is considerably longer than what BYD’s closet rivals are reporting. As the battery pack has been increased, so has charging time with a full charge taking up to 6 hours, although it has not been reported in Chinese media if this is via a low voltage or high voltage charger.
Many FAKE American here

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#22 Jul 1, 2011
BYD E6 American Edition render leaked.
July 1, 2011

As the Chevrolet Volt sells for around USD35,000 in the US market the BYD E6 is likely to retail for the same or less depending on market conditions.

BYD did have plans to enter the USA in early 2009 but these plans were shelved due to poor market conditions in the US and a booming market in China, but BYD have set up their American HQ already in California and are currently doing fleet testing with the LA Housing Authority.

GUESS we have to wait and see how good these BYD E6 are? But like it or not, PEV are the FUTURE!
These green and alternate energy machine has prompt Prince Alweed, nephew and advisor to King Abdullah to act on LOWERING CRUDE OIL PRICE recently but is it too late! Once State Capitalist China is set in motion can Suadi Arabia with its hundreds of year OIL RESERVE turned back the clock!

I certainly HOPE NOT! The OIL CARTER has been screwing up the economies and the people of the world for much too long.

IF American insists on keeping their ICE technology, it is their choice. But for the rest of the world we surge ahead and follow a different path and roadmap to a GREENER and MORE ENVIRONMENTAL FRIENDLY ALTERNATE ENERGY.
litesong

Arlington, WA

#23 Jul 1, 2011
One fake communist chinese there wrote:
IMO only a STATE CAPITALIST such as China can and will succeed in pushing massive green project such as EV because they have both the WILL and the DETERMINATION.
chinese communists(always small letters) had the will & determination(always small letters) to murder, torture & starve 100 million of their own BROTHERS, SISTERS, CHILDREN & BABIES between 1949 & the early 1970's. If civilian Chinese, at the time, couldn't cast off the deathbonds of chinese communists(always small letters) then, civilian Chinese will drive electric vehicles tomorrow, whether the EVs are any good or not.

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