Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 568,402
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
charts1

Hamilton, Canada

#202732 Jun 30, 2010
RealSheryl wrote:
<quoted text>
Go, charts1!
I am on a roll!!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#202734 Jun 30, 2010
Justified 7 wrote:
<quoted text>If you are gonna base your views on Church Fathers being in agreement with your church(rome); then why doesn't your church support Irenaeus and Martyr's views over premillenialism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillenialism#...
--//--
There is not a consensus of the Church fathers over papal supremacy and Mt 16:18. I've given many quotes. You proceeded to say something Cyril said which would conflict the other quote I gave on him. All quotes give references; so you can start there. Blessings
Sorry for the delayed response...

I honestly don't know what the church's or church father's positions are concerning premillenialism, so I can't help you there.

The intent behind my initial response was simple - if I recall correctly, you provided some quotes which you used as evidence that Cyril did not support the papacy (or was it specific to Matthew 16:18), and I showed you that Cyril did actually support the papacy. Here are Cyril's quotes again:

"Peter, the first and foremost of the apostles"
"It was marvelous enough, and yet no marvel at all, for Peter was there—he that carries about the keys of heaven" (note that this is a continuation of the quote that you give above regarding "the noble pair" of Peter and Paul)
"In the power of the same Holy Spirit, Peter, both the chief of the apostles and the keeper of the keys of the kingdom of heaven"

So are we agreed that we can take Cyril of Jerusalem off the list of those who did not support Peter's primacy?

Peace

Since: Apr 10

Hazleton, PA

#202735 Jun 30, 2010
charts1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am on a roll!!
Good - I like that!(We'll team up and kick ass.)
WGAC

Malvern, PA

#202737 Jun 30, 2010
charts1 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK! You have all the christian answers. Thats good! thats good! Expand my mind please? Please post back what archeoligical or historical evidence that you can share with us that exists from 4 BCE to 30 AD that a divine jesus existed?
I am awaiting your logical reply.......expand my mind.
There has been much archeological evidence, however, you will get no solid proof. It is a matter of faith. Could it be that you really don't want to face up to the possibility that God is indeed there? Can you disprove His existence?

I can't disprove a giant purple frog on Mars controls the universe, either. One can never disprove any given thing exists. The atheistic position denying God's existence, if based on the emperical method, is absurd. Why do I say that? In order to prove the assertion No God exists experimentally, one would need to comprehensively know all of reality. Comprehensive knowledge of reality is called omniscience. One would need to be omniscient in order to prove there is no God, but if one were omniscient one would, by definition, already be God! So, based on emperical methodology, the only one capable of disproving the existence of God would be God himself! To assert God cannot exist, despite the impossibility of proving that statement, is the ultimate irrational leap!

King David wrote: The fool says in his heart there is no God.(Psalm 14:1)

In other words, Atheism is irrational. Apart from God there is no basis for truth or ethics.

WGAC

Malvern, PA

#202738 Jun 30, 2010
RealSheryl wrote:
<quoted text>
Good - I like that!(We'll team up and kick ass.)
Wow, are you always such an astute judge of character?

Since: Apr 10

Hazleton, PA

#202739 Jun 30, 2010
WGAC wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, are you always such an astute judge of character?
LOL - I try :)

Actually, in real life I judge nobody.'cause I'm not unblemished.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#202740 Jun 30, 2010
jonah wrote:
<quoted text>AGAIN THE STUPIDITY OF FULL OF IT SHOWS VERY CLEARLY.
i BELEIVE THAT I EXERCISED THAT VERSE WHERE IT SAYS TO BE LONG SUFFERRING.
OVER WEEKS, i TALKED TO DOMINO ABOUT THIS SIN, HIS FAILING TO LEAVE THAT SITUATION THEN ALLOWED ME NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE BUT TO DISCUSS IT PUBLICLY, THE BIBLE SAYS PUBLICLY.
IF YOU WISH TO CHANGE THE BIBLE,TO FIT HIS SIN, THAT WILL BE ON YOUR HEAD,
not mine
There are some people who could stuff themselves with Scripture until it came out their noses, and they'd still refuse to let the Spirit teach them anything.

They're not trying to discern at all; they're seeking support, not truth.

From your source, http://www.spirithome.com/discrnmt.html#whati...

the same words you used on GIF on Saturday June 26 and didn't give credit where credit was due,the very thing you accuse GIF of doing.

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TV910R5...

Now,why don't you focus on Christ instead of drawing the attention away from Him,
Oh sinless one.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#202741 Jun 30, 2010
Justified 7 wrote:
<quoted text>Then why do you need confession to them?
I was looking for another post, when I came across this, so I thought I'd respond. Quite simply, we confess our sins because Jesus himself told the apostles in John 20:
"And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
There is one part of this that is often, and understandably, overlooked - he breathed on them. The only other time God breathes on man is when he breathed life into Adam. That means something very important is happening. What comes next, they receive the Holy Spirit and are given this ministry. How can they forgive or not if they are not told the sins?

Paul himself referred to confession (which we also call reconciliation) as a ministry in 2 Corinthians 5:18 -
"All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION"

God Bless
WGAC

Malvern, PA

#202742 Jun 30, 2010
RealSheryl wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL - I try :)
Actually, in real life I judge nobody.'cause I'm not unblemished.
Really? Then what are you doing here? Are you not judging our faith?
The Heathen

Daytona Beach, FL

#202743 Jun 30, 2010
Rainchester1 wrote:
<quoted text>
But Jonah believes he is saved by Christ. You are too young to know better, and you don't believe. Therefore sin is not in your vocabulary.
Too young to know... what? Trust and believe, I'm not all that young... and I've seen and know quite a bit. And no.. it isn't in my vocabulary... but then again, neither is leprechaun (unless it is St. Patty's Day), unicorn and jabberwocky... because those TOO are beings/concepts of imagination.
The Heathen

Daytona Beach, FL

#202744 Jun 30, 2010
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL...we don't have to.
Apparently the concept of "Burden of Proof" is lost on you.
ReginaM wrote:
Keep going the way you're going and I'll bet one of these days you'll be able to prove it all by yourself.
Telling me that "it will be proven to me one day" is like me telling you that I'm going to punch you in your aura.

I'm just as worried about your little threat as you would be about mine. Which is to say, NOT AT ALL.
marge

United States

#202745 Jun 30, 2010
What also bugs me about you catholics is that you say the "fullness of faith" can only come from your church, when in fact the Scriptures say that it is "Christ dwelling in our hearts" that brings the fullness;

I pray that according to the wealth of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner person, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, so that, because you have been rooted and grounded in love, you may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and thus to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled up to >>>all the fullness of God.<<< Ephesians 3:16-19

Blessings
charts1

Hamilton, Canada

#202746 Jun 30, 2010
WGAC wrote:
<quoted text>
There has been much archeological evidence, however, you will get no solid proof. It is a matter of faith. Could it be that you really don't want to face up to the possibility that God is indeed there? Can you disprove His existence?
I can't disprove a giant purple frog on Mars controls the universe, either. One can never disprove any given thing exists. The atheistic position denying God's existence, if based on the emperical method, is absurd. Why do I say that? In order to prove the assertion No God exists experimentally, one would need to comprehensively know all of reality. Comprehensive knowledge of reality is called omniscience. One would need to be omniscient in order to prove there is no God, but if one were omniscient one would, by definition, already be God! So, based on emperical methodology, the only one capable of disproving the existence of God would be God himself! To assert God cannot exist, despite the impossibility of proving that statement, is the ultimate irrational leap!
King David wrote: The fool says in his heart there is no God.(Psalm 14:1)
In other words, Atheism is irrational. Apart from God there is no basis for truth or ethics.
What archeological evidence from 4 BCE to 30 AD do you speak of?

My point is this.

We were taught that just over 2000 years ago a man/god named jesus tripped around jerusulem with an enterouage of 12 men performing miracles for thousands and witnessed by many more. A man supposedly brought back from the dead, another made to see again, turned water into wine to make many happy and he made food multiply to feed 5,000 people loaves fishes. EVERYONE of these people would be very grateful for his miraclous powers that helped them and all that witnessed these feats would be totally impressed. I would! The story goes that a short time later this man jesus rode into jerusulem on a donkey and the entire crowd threw palm leaves down as a thumbs up to him. Now the story gets cloudy. We are taught a short time later jesus gets caught up in some government red tape of a serious nature and the crowds of people whom must have been supporters of jesus have a choice to make to crucifiy one of two men. The crowd screams jesus. But why? Aren't these the people who he miraclized? Doesn't make sense. Did these miracles really take place or was he a David Copperfield ahead of his time? There is nothing in the story that indicates that he died for our sins. He died because the crowd chose him to die not Barabas. How would christianity have unfolded if the crowd screamed Barabas and there was no crucifiction of a man named jesus? Makes one wonder.

If the 12 apostles were best friends of jesus and they witnessed these miracles and BELIEVED IN HIM why were they in hiding as the story of the crucificition is told?

There were dozens of hebrew and roman writers of the day in jerusulem and they recorded daily events. NOT one event do we have of this miracle worker jesus. Personal and government writings by Pontious Pilate, yet nothing about a crucifiction of a jesus. Nothing recorded by anyone. For this man from the day he was born the story tells us was brought 3 gifts by Kings, performed miracles, christians call him the greatest man that ever lived yet no one at the time thought he was important enough to write anything about him, not even a description of what he looked like. NOTHING! Something is wrong!

Yes I would love to believe in a divine jesus, but total lack of contemporary evidence makes me believe otherwise.

Just my personal opinion.....
Rainchester1

North Berwick, ME

#202747 Jun 30, 2010
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently the concept of "Burden of Proof" is lost on you.
<quoted text>
Telling me that "it will be proven to me one day" is like me telling you that I'm going to punch you in your aura.
I'm just as worried about your little threat as you would be about mine. Which is to say, NOT AT ALL.
Hey don't worry about it. In a hundred years it's all new people anyway.
WGAC

Malvern, PA

#202748 Jun 30, 2010
LTM wrote:
If all these things in beauty give glory to God, how much more should humans, whom He created in His own image, desire to praise Him. The beauty of creation itself makes man stand in awe and reverence of what God has provided for the people of His creation.
God desires and promises to provide for His people's total well-being, their spiritual, physical and material needs. His source is unlimited. God does not promise to provide all that believers want, He does promise to provide all that is needed.
Many Christians have needs that are not met simply because they do not pray and ask.
God also directs each individual to whom He has given certain responsibilities because they have decided to obey His will, as they serve and minister to others in The Name of His Son, Jesus.
He offers to share His wisdom with His people if we but ask. Through prayer and trust His people can experience God's peace and strength, His mercy, and help daily as well as in times of need.
People have the choice of accepting or rejecting personally His offer of salvation of eternal life. To accept is done by submission to Him through believing in His Son Jesus, The Christ, who God sent to the world to redeem the human race, and who then, after successfully accomplishing this on The Cross of Calvary, returned to heaven.
The manner of a sinful person in the world's system, creates hostility towards God, and brings about judgement upon their own self, but God has provided a way for humankind to be saved from His Wrath and the Second Death, by being able to live with Him for eternity. It is up to each individual to respond to His providential care now and in the future, through Christ.
But can you lose your salvation if you continue to sin willfully and without repentance after you proclaim yourself to be "saved"?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#202749 Jun 30, 2010
charts1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't be done!! No one on this forum can prove it. No one has posted back to me yet stating archeological or historicl evidence that a divine jesus ever existed. No one on this forum, They just post back negative comments using nice christian words such as JACKASS AND LIAR!..... SELF RIGHTEOUS HIPICRITS THEY ARE! UNBELIEVALBE!
Perhaps the problem you are facing is that what you are asking for is not reasonable. What archeological evidence would you expect for a man who was considered by the Jews to be unimportant, though a threat? A man with relatively few followers? He certainly didn't occupy any type of governmental or secular authoritative position to justify archeological evidence. Any archeological evidence that may have existed in Jerusalem is most certainly in ruins following the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. So I think we can agree that the demand for archeological evidence is really just not reasonable. That being said, here's a link that gives an interesting perspective on this issue, and perhaps the closest to "archaeological evidence" we'll ever have. Surely you realize that we won't find his bones!

So, how about historical evidence? Well, there is an abundance of this type of evidence - the letters of Paul of Tarsus, a more historical book such as the Acts of the Apostles for starters. I predict you will not want to use the Bible as a source document, despite the validity of doing so, particularly Paul's letters. But there are extra biblical references to Jesus found among the early church fathers. Looking for non-Christian sources? Well, certainly you're familiar with Josephus, though there are some disagreements regarding the historicity of his mention of Jesus. A letter by Tacitus is also a good source. In short, there is ample historical evidence for Jesus.

Blessings
WGAC

Malvern, PA

#202750 Jun 30, 2010
charts1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What archeological evidence from 4 BCE to 30 AD do you speak of?
My point is this.
We were taught that just over 2000 years ago a man/god named jesus tripped around jerusulem with an enterouage of 12 men performing miracles for thousands and witnessed by many more. A man supposedly brought back from the dead, another made to see again, turned water into wine to make many happy and he made food multiply to feed 5,000 people loaves fishes. EVERYONE of these people would be very grateful for his miraclous powers that helped them and all that witnessed these feats would be totally impressed. I would! The story goes that a short time later this man jesus rode into jerusulem on a donkey and the entire crowd threw palm leaves down as a thumbs up to him. Now the story gets cloudy. We are taught a short time later jesus gets caught up in some government red tape of a serious nature and the crowds of people whom must have been supporters of jesus have a choice to make to crucifiy one of two men. The crowd screams jesus. But why? Aren't these the people who he miraclized? Doesn't make sense. Did these miracles really take place or was he a David Copperfield ahead of his time? There is nothing in the story that indicates that he died for our sins. He died because the crowd chose him to die not Barabas. How would christianity have unfolded if the crowd screamed Barabas and there was no crucifiction of a man named jesus? Makes one wonder.
If the 12 apostles were best friends of jesus and they witnessed these miracles and BELIEVED IN HIM why were they in hiding as the story of the crucificition is told?
There were dozens of hebrew and roman writers of the day in jerusulem and they recorded daily events. NOT one event do we have of this miracle worker jesus. Personal and government writings by Pontious Pilate, yet nothing about a crucifiction of a jesus. Nothing recorded by anyone. For this man from the day he was born the story tells us was brought 3 gifts by Kings, performed miracles, christians call him the greatest man that ever lived yet no one at the time thought he was important enough to write anything about him, not even a description of what he looked like. NOTHING! Something is wrong!
Yes I would love to believe in a divine jesus, but total lack of contemporary evidence makes me believe otherwise.
Just my personal opinion.....
You are entitled to your opinion, but you cannot state as fact that God does not exist until you can find a way to disprove His existence. It is unfair for you to judge others harshly because they have faith in something that you, by your personal opinion, do not believe in.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#202751 Jun 30, 2010
WGAC wrote:
<quoted text>
But can you lose your salvation if you continue to sin willfully and without repentance after you proclaim yourself to be "saved"?
I think Paul gives us a good answer to this question. Here's one example:

Romans 11
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE IN HIS KINDNESS. OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.
Rainchester1

North Berwick, ME

#202752 Jun 30, 2010
You could look at the findings of Noetic Science as proof of, at the very least, the power of prayer.
Of course Christians knew it long before Noetic Science was born.
Jews knew it too.
Interesting huh. What other religions pray to a deity? Let's see.......hmmmmm.......the Greeks, what we call "mythology" now. They traveled across the water between the Islands in boats to Itea, to visit the Temple of Apollo, the Prince of Peace, and they prayed. hmmmmmm

Since: May 08

Belle Mead, NJ

#202754 Jun 30, 2010
Justified 7 wrote:
<quoted text>I'm glad you find it interesting; and you should; but do you care to point out with proof which is meaningless?
--//--
Justified 7 wrote:
There are problems with the Roman Catholic position. First of all, when we look at the Greek of Matthew 16:18 we see something that is not obvious in the English. "...you are Peter (&#960;&#941;&#964 ;&#961;&#959;&#962 ;, petros) and upon this rock (&#960;&#941;&#964 ;&#961;&#945;, petra) I will build My church..." In Greek nouns have gender. It is similar to the English words actor and actress. The first is masculine and the second is feminine. Likewise, the Greek word "petros" is masculine; "petra" is feminine. Peter, the man, is appropriately referred to as Petros. But Jesus said that the rock he would build his church on was not the masculine "petros" but the feminine "petra." Let me illustrate by using the words "actor" and "actress": "You are the actor and with this actress I will make my movie." Do see that the gender influences how a sentence is understood? Jesus was not saying that the church will be built upon Peter, but upon something else. What, then, does petra, the feminine noun, refer to?
The feminine "petra" occurs four times in the Greek New Testament:
•Matt. 16:18, "And I also say to you that you are Peter (petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it."
•Matt. 27:60, "and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock (petra); and he rolled a large stone against the entrance of the tomb and went away."
•1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."
•1 Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."
We can clearly see that in the three other uses of the Greek word petra (nominative singular; "petras" in 1 Cor. 10:4 is genitive singular) we find it referred to as a large immovable mass of rock in which a tomb is carved out (Matt. 27:60) and in reference to Christ (1 Cor. 10:4; 1 Pet. 2:8). Note that Peter himself in the last verse referred to petra as being Jesus! If Peter uses the word as a reference to Jesus, then shouldn't we?
In addition, Greek dictionaries and lexicons give us further insight into the two Greek words under discussion:
1.Source: Liddell, H.(1996). A lexicon : Abridged from Liddell and Scott's Greek-English lexicon (636). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
A.Petros: "&#960;&#941; &#964;&#961;&#959; &#962;, a stone, distinguished from &#960;&#941;&#964; &#961;&#945;
B.Petra: &#960;&#941;&#964; &#961;&#945; , Ion. and Ep. &#960;&#941;&#964; &#961;&#951;,, a rock, a ledge or shelf of rock, Od. 2. a rock, i.e. a rocky peak or ridge...Properly, &#960;&#941;&#964; &#961;&#945; is a fixed rock, &#960;&#941;&#964; &#961;&#959;&#962; a stone."
2.Source: Vine, W., & Bruce, F.(1981; Published in electronic form by Logos Research Systems, 1996). Vine's Expository dictionary of Old and New Testament words (2:302). Old Tappan NJ: Revell.
A.PETRA &#960;&#941;&#964; &#961;&#945; ,(4073)) denotes a mass of rock, as distinct from petros, a detached stone or boulder, or a stone that might be thrown or easily moved.
http://www.carm.org/is-peter-the-rock
As I said, interesting but meaningless.

Some thought St. Peter was the rock and others did not.

Doesn't change a thing about anything.

Unlike you, they knew who St. Peter was.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 4 min Kaitlin the Wolf ... 796,104
Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 5 min WasteWater 267,519
Corruption At The Gaston Inn Motel In Gastonia,... 17 min Marty Fong 1
The Knights of Columbus, Scottish And Yorkrite ... 19 min Marty Fong 13
I live with my cousin, we had sex and we loved it. 21 min Ed Teach 6
contagion what ails the system (Oct '08) 41 min uttam hathi 734
Homosexuals are servants and human children of ... 43 min Doctor REALITY 25
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 50 min Black Thunder 42 607,243
Scientific proof for God's existence 1 hr Make World peace ... 607
Blaming Israel for carnage (Jul '06) 4 hr AN NFL FAN 120,750
More from around the web