Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 692145 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

June VanDerMark

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#558429 Sep 1, 2014
Maybe it's time for a different group of cruel religionists such as the Muslims to take over the world.

It's the only way those in other religions will learn any humility whatsoever.

But then again they might refer to their selves as martyrs and die as devout religionists ought to die ... with the names of gods on their lips.

The divisive insanity of religion will probably never end.

But I still have hope that humans will some day shed their religious pomposity as being outdated garbage.

What can I lose by having HOPE?

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#558430 Sep 1, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
REALLY???
You are going to blame my parents who WERE religious for me becoming an Atheist.
That is as silly as blaming all future generations for the supposed sin of Adam and Eve.
I don't blame them for your religion, goofy; I blame them for you.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#558431 Sep 1, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
The attitude of religionists has been ... "It's acceptable for me to use my religion to bully others into submission ... but I don't like it when others use their religion to bully me into submission."
Well ... life doesn't always work to our own advantage.
Cry me a Christian river!
How about a whiskey river.

June VanDerMark

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#558432 Sep 1, 2014
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it has more to do with the Satanic side,
November 14, 2009

Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Greetings June
It is fear that makes the KNOW. Fear of death, and fear of hell, and fear of not making it to heaven.....Religion is based on fear....
Robert

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#558433 Sep 1, 2014
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>You are taking this personally,and I never accused anyone of having another god,or rather goddess in the case of Mary.But that the Church continues to give her divine attributes,which have never been given by Christ in Person,nor through the teaching of the Apostles.
You can only go by the apparitions which give credence to the many doctrines that place Mary on a pedestal. Any type of divine office that is given to Mary has never been confirmed by the whole of the Scriptures. To have apparitions as confirmation,when in fact the RCC has spent years even refuting with those who had apparitions,even more points to the fact that the BIBLE is needed to settle the matter,not someone's vision.
I do not condemn Catholics for believing the way they do,but on the other hand I do not have to believe in those things that Catholics hold dear,outside of Christ and Who and What He was,is and will be to us who live in Him by faith.
Not that this subject has not been hashed over for a long time,but it always remains a thorn of contention between Roman Catholics and non- Catholics as a whole who are Christians. And you claim that your church is the true church,having the basis as it were of Marian doctrines to validate your claim.
Pad

Peace

Are their eccentrics in their belief in Mary in the RCC? Of course And this is what the world sees from the outside, the eccentrics.

But the same is true in non Catholic, non-denominational, and denominational churches.

Will it be resolved?

Probably not, because people tend to believe in different ways, especially in regards to the importance of Mary in the life of Jesus.

So if Mary was important to the life of Jesus, then is she important to the life of his brothers and sisters(the church)?

I think., in general, because she is in every generation to be called Blessed, as per the Bible, that she has an importance to the church, for which we may not fathom, but each believe on their own level and knowledge. Some have more intimate knowledge of her as a mother, and thus a mother figure in their lives to which they can turn to.

Similarly, the lives of past saints can also be a help to us as we face certain difficulties, or understand how they dealt with events in their lives. Likewise, Mary understood, and knew Jesus in her life, and because of this the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

So to understand the Word of God to some, means that they begin through Mary.

Some people search the scriptures for Jesus, and do not find him, and some who do not know the scriptures but begin with Mary may find him. It is faith in Jesus. So she leads us to know better both the Gospel, and Jesus, as well, for those who have faith in Him Alone.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#558434 Sep 1, 2014
Continued Prayer by an Orthodox priest to the Blessed Virgin Mary:"For this reason, I beseech your inexhaustible goodness: open the gates of your mercy to me who have sinned and fallen into darkness. Sinful as I am, do not despise me nor reject my appeal; in my wretchedness, do not forsake me whom the enemy has seized for destruction. Beseech the merciful God, born of you, t h a t He forgive my grievous sins and deliver us from ruin, so that we too, will all those who have been forgiven before,may praise and glorify God's boundless mercy and unfailing intercession for us, both in this life and in the age to come.

" With great humility, we appeal to your maternal boldness, as we pray for the protection of our country, and all Orthodox Christians worldwide, and all those who suffer from strife during these troubled times.... we pray for vocations to the Holy Priesthood.....Monastic profession in our diocese....we pray for the health and salvation of our diocesan clergy... and we also pray for our individual intentions.........

We beseech your maternal, and tender, regard for our needs, O Most-Holy Theotokos and Mother of our God, that you might present our prayers to your Son and our God, to Whom, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, are due all glory, honor and adoration, now and ever and forever."

Response of the laity praying with the priest silently but praying aloud after his prayer.

"We have no other help, we have no other hope, aside from you O Most-Pure Virgin: Do you help us, we hope in you and we praise you, for we are your servants let us not be ashamed."

This is an Orthodox person who is explaining to a seeker the difference between the Orthodox and RC devotion to Mary.
"SOMETIMES the devotionalism does go too far but I should like to remind you that the Orthodox have prayers like 'Most Holy Mother of God, save us' and'for thou are the salvation of Christians.' Things that are Orthodox but need a lot of explaining particularly to Protestants!"

And about Mediatrix:" That's fine and really what Western Catholicism teaches as well. There is an Orthodox prayer, the Theotokion in the post-Communion prayers, that calls her a mediatix. "Co-Redemptrix' can be spun to make it acceptable but I don't think it's worth the bother. Leave it as opinion.

Well it would seem Anthony and Liam,explaining the whole matter would boil down to opinion,but it is so obvious that such language in prayer to Mary gives her Divine Attributes that Christ already has from the beginning of His earthly ministr4y,and due to the fact that He is God Incarnate. It has to stand to reason that Jesus according to RCs and Orthodox shares His divine office with Mary,and that includes worship as well!
Pad

Rockford, IL

#558435 Sep 1, 2014
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Pad
Peace
Are their eccentrics in their belief in Mary in the RCC? Of course And this is what the world sees from the outside, the eccentrics.
But the same is true in non Catholic, non-denominational, and denominational churches.
Will it be resolved?
Probably not, because people tend to believe in different ways, especially in regards to the importance of Mary in the life of Jesus.
So if Mary was important to the life of Jesus, then is she important to the life of his brothers and sisters(the church)?
I think., in general, because she is in every generation to be called Blessed, as per the Bible, that she has an importance to the church, for which we may not fathom, but each believe on their own level and knowledge. Some have more intimate knowledge of her as a mother, and thus a mother figure in their lives to which they can turn to.
Similarly, the lives of past saints can also be a help to us as we face certain difficulties, or understand how they dealt with events in their lives. Likewise, Mary understood, and knew Jesus in her life, and because of this the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
So to understand the Word of God to some, means that they begin through Mary.
Some people search the scriptures for Jesus, and do not find him, and some who do not know the scriptures but begin with Mary may find him. It is faith in Jesus. So she leads us to know better both the Gospel, and Jesus, as well, for those who have faith in Him Alone.
I understand your post here,but in the end of it you bring out a point that again substitutes the Holy Spirit with Mary. It is soley the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives Robert F. to reveal the Risen Savior to us. Mary is still a woman,she has not been transformed into a n Angel,or a celestial being to obtain divine graces and power,in order to reveal her Son unto us.

The Catholics are taking the ministry of the Holy Spirit to illumine our hearts and minds to the CHRIST,and literally giving it to Mary.
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#558436 Sep 1, 2014
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you for sharing this Orthodox perspective,

It is basically evident that worship is done here. Is there any angels or human beings who are greeted or beseeched in this way?

It does not take a genius to even see here that adoration is what are in these SNIPPED

Even more pointed as worship and adoration is the prayer by the priest,as they humbly pray before an ICON of the Theotokos.
You are a bold guy. You simply can't stop falsely accusing us.
We do not worship Mary, Dan. You can't provide any teaching from the Catholic or Orthodox Churches that say we are to adore the Blessed Mother.

Before you guys invented sola scripture. And made Christianity "just me my Bible and Jesus", Christianity was a world wide FAMILY. With one Father, one MOTHER, and one MEAL (the Eucharist). It still is like this today unless you're one of the forty thousand bible only sects.

We strive to become like Christ. This means we try to love His Mother like He did.
Its ridiculous that you speak for Him and suggest songs honoring His Mother offends Him! You know what offends Him? Undoing things He taught, like the Eucharist.

"Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor"
Pad

Rockford, IL

#558437 Sep 1, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
November 14, 2009
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Greetings June
It is fear that makes the KNOW. Fear of death, and fear of hell, and fear of not making it to heaven.....Religion is based on fear....
Robert
Your right June, r e l i g i o n is based on fear,and it is often manipulated by the politics of a given organization of Religious entity,to impose fear on followers.

We do not disagree with you here. But every time you bring this up,and I see it,I will tell you again and again,that Jesus Christ is not religion,nor is He religious,The kingdom of the Father is not a religion,nor is it a religious entity. The kingdom of the Father is a reality of who and what the Creator is,a kingdom that has no beginning nor end,but is responsible for this Universe.

Religion is human in development and in theory.All the organizations of religion have the infrastructure of philosophy,and human reasoning. The Kingdom of the Father of Lights is alien to our religious structures and organizations. What is of God is truth,and true reason,and His WILL.

You limit God to our human religious entities,and that is a mistake of judgment on your part,it clouds your perspective June,and you will always be a t a disadvantage concerning your stance against God, and those who believe in Him!
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#558438 Sep 1, 2014
Pad wrote:
Continued Prayer by an Orthodox priest to the Blessed Virgin Mary:"For this reason, I beseech your inexhaustible goodness: open the gates of your mercy to me who have sinned and fallen into darkness. Sinful as I am, do not despise me nor reject my appeal; in my wretchedness, do not forsake me whom the enemy has seized for destruction. Beseech the merciful God, born of you, t h a t He forgive my grievous sins and deliver us from ruin, so that we too, will all those who have been forgiven before,may praise and glorify God's boundless mercy and unfailing intercession for us, both in this life and in the age to come.
" With great humility, we appeal to your maternal boldness, as we pray for the protection of our country, and all Orthodox Christians worldwide, and all those who suffer from strife during these troubled times.... we pray for vocations to the Holy Priesthood.....Monastic profession in our diocese....we pray for the health and salvation of our diocesan clergy... and we also pray for our individual intentions.........
We beseech your maternal, and tender, regard for our needs, O Most-Holy Theotokos and Mother of our God, that you might present our prayers to your Son and our God, to Whom, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, are due all glory, honor and adoration, now and ever and forever."
Response of the laity praying with the priest silently but praying aloud after his prayer.
"We have no other help, we have no other hope, aside from you O Most-Pure Virgin: Do you help us, we hope in you and we praise you, for we are your servants let us not be ashamed."
This is an Orthodox person who is explaining to a seeker the difference between the Orthodox and RC devotion to Mary.
"SOMETIMES the devotionalism does go too far but I should like to remind you that the Orthodox have prayers like 'Most Holy Mother of God, save us' and'for thou are the salvation of Christians.' Things that are Orthodox but need a lot of explaining particularly to Protestants!"
And about Mediatrix:" That's fine and really what Western Catholicism teaches as well. There is an Orthodox prayer, the Theotokion in the post-Communion prayers, that calls her a mediatix. "Co-Redemptrix' can be spun to make it acceptable but I don't think it's worth the bother. Leave it as opinion.
Well it would seem Anthony and Liam,explaining the whole matter would boil down to opinion,but it is so obvious that such language in prayer to Mary gives her Divine Attributes that Christ already has from the beginning of His earthly ministr4y,and due to the fact that He is God Incarnate. It has to stand to reason that Jesus according to RCs and Orthodox shares His divine office with Mary,and that includes worship as well!
Everything about that beautiful prayer points to God. That's it. Whoever thinks that was all about Mary and not God is an idiot.
But really, Dan, what this is really about (and always has been) is the frantic attempts of fundamentalist to separate themselves from the Catholic Church. Marian doctrine and dogma is mostly a Catholic and Orthodox thing. Therefore you must eradicate it. You can't be associated with the whore of Babylon, right?

"thou shall not bear false witness".

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#558439 Sep 1, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
You and Gif ought to be afraid of your out of control egos.
~~~
JUNE....CHRISTIANITY IS CONTROLLING YOU

YOUR EVERY POST is ...in one way or another is A response to CHRISTIANITY

IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER

WE CHRISTIANS CONTROL YOUR EVERY THOUGHT THAT YOU POST HERE IN THIS FORUM.
KayMarie

Carlisle, PA

#558440 Sep 1, 2014
who="Pad"]<quoted text>Thank you for sharing this Orthodox perspective,it is clear, and even more confirms my point of view on the whole subject. "Higher than the heavens above are you, and you are much purer than the radiance of the sun; You who have redeemed us from the curse which is upon us; The Lady of all people, in hymns,do we honor you.
" From the great multitude of my sins, Ill am I in body, Ill am I also in my soul; I am fleeing to you, the one who is all-blessed, the hope of all the hopeless, PLEASE come bring help to me." It is basically evident that worship is done here. Is there any angels or human beings who are greeted or beseeched in this way?
It does not take a genius to even see here that adoration is what are in these words. I have read such to pagan gods in books that explain prayers to Isis,Osirus,Diana and so on.Catholics and Orthodox are so used to these type of prayers,that they don't even realize the impact it has on the minds of those who would never pray to the Blessed Mother. However I am not condemning anyone for these prayers,so don't get haughty about this.
Even more pointed as worship and adoration is the prayer by the priest,as they humbly pray before an ICON of the Theotokos.
"O my most blessed Lady, Defender of the human race, Refuge and s a l v a t i o n of all who hasten to you: I know that I have sinned many times and angered the most Good God Who was born of you. But I have many examples of those who abused his loving kindness before I did; All were sinners who received forgiveness of their sins after confession and penance.Having before my sinful eyes the example of those pardoned, and behoding the great mercfy of God in receiving them anew, I too a repentant sinner, dare to have recourse to Y O U R compassion, o my gracious Lady. Give me your helping hand, and obtain from your Son and our God the forgiveness of my grievous sins.
"I believe and confess that the One you have borne, your Son, is truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Judge of the living and the dead Who will deal with each one according to his deeds. I further believe and profess that you are truly the Theotokos, the Mother of God, and that in your deep love for the Christian people, you are a fountain of mercy, the consolation of the afflicted, a haven for the lost, a powerful and constant advocated before Christ, and the guarantee of my repentance. Truly, there is no help or refuge for humanity besides you, O merciful Lady: no one who hopes in you is ever disappointed, on one who implores God through you is ever forsaken.
Continued prayer on next post:

----------
How revealing...
Pad

Rockford, IL

#558441 Sep 1, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything about that beautiful prayer points to God. That's it. Whoever thinks that was all about Mary and not God is an idiot.
But really, Dan, what this is really about (and always has been) is the frantic attempts of fundamentalist to separate themselves from the Catholic Church. Marian doctrine and dogma is mostly a Catholic and Orthodox thing. Therefore you must eradicate it. You can't be associated with the whore of Babylon, right?
"thou shall not bear false witness".
Don't rest your case yet Liam. I do not grab onto theories such as Babylon,or the great whore,which by the way does represent a religious entity(a woman wanton). Let God keep His mystery,of which such things are mysteries.

I do not intend to vilify any church,but I do believe that your church believes it is the true church because you are validated by what historical church fathers said,and that apparitions of Mary confirmed your Church's existence as the only true church started by Jesus Christ.

Having this mind set also has shaped the laity into believing that not only is the church the only true one,but that no one can be saved unless they are RC.Although the Ecumenical councils recognize "Separated Brethren" and the Orthodox Church,the many writings of Popes foregone indicate factually that the RCC and its beseeching of the Holy Virgin guarantees the salvation as complete in the framework of Roman Catholicism. Every Pope in the last few centuries have declared Mary the Mother of the Church,and basically she is the Queen of it as well. It is more and more apparent that Mary is much more than blessed,but that she holds divine office over the church and its followers.

The prayers said to her on a daily basis brings out that whole belief system that has been no doubt sophisticated in its reality of being the main focus of the RCC. The RCC believes that Mary is not only the fiat,but now the reigning Queen of the Church,and it has to be kept subdued,due to the fact Jews and non-Catholic Christians would reject OPEN declaration of her divine office.Some Catholics are truthful about how they feel about Mary. You Liam would rather accuse me of bearing false witness,to that which is so blasted obvious from every RC venue there is.
KayMarie

Carlisle, PA

#558442 Sep 1, 2014
who="Robert F"]<quoted text>
Pad
Peace
Are their eccentrics in their belief in Mary in the RCC? Of course And this is what the world sees from the outside, the eccentrics.
But the same is true in non Catholic, non-denominational, and denominational churches.
Will it be resolved?
Probably not, because people tend to believe in different ways, especially in regards to the importance of Mary in the life of Jesus.
So if Mary was important to the life of Jesus, then is she important to the life of his brothers and sisters(the church)?
I think., in general, because she is in every generation to be called Blessed, as per the Bible, that she has an importance to the church, for which we may not fathom, but each believe on their own level and knowledge. Some have more intimate knowledge of her as a mother, and thus a mother figure in their lives to which they can turn to.
Similarly, the lives of past saints can also be a help to us as we face certain difficulties, or understand how they dealt with events in their lives. Likewise, Mary understood, and knew Jesus in her life, and because of this the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
So to understand the Word of God to some, means that they begin through Mary.
Some people search the scriptures for Jesus, and do not find him, and some who do not know the scriptures but begin with Mary may find him. It is faith in Jesus. So she leads us to know better both the Gospel, and Jesus, as well, for those who have faith in Him Alone.

----------
Yes, Mary shall be called blessed by all generations.
Here's proof:

Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

That includes me, too. Are YOU blessed?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#558443 Sep 1, 2014
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Your right June, r e l i g i o n is based on fear,and it is often manipulated by the politics of a given organization of Religious entity,to impose fear on followers.
We do not disagree with you here. But every time you bring this up,and I see it,I will tell you again and again,that Jesus Christ is not religion,nor is He religious,The kingdom of the Father is not a religion,nor is it a religious entity. The kingdom of the Father is a reality of who and what the Creator is,a kingdom that has no beginning nor end,but is responsible for this Universe.
Religion is human in development and in theory.All the organizations of religion have the infrastructure of philosophy,and human reasoning. The Kingdom of the Father of Lights is alien to our religious structures and organizations. What is of God is truth,and true reason,and His WILL.
You limit God to our human religious entities,and that is a mistake of judgment on your part,it clouds your perspective June,and you will always be a t a disadvantage concerning your stance against God, and those who believe in Him!
~~~

YOU CLAIM SPECIAL BRAGGING RIGHTS FOR YOUR PERVERTED RELIGIOUS SOCIETY,

YET YOUR RELIGIOUS SYSTEM..... IS A POWERLESS (as far as the power of God is concerned
YOUR WORSHIP IS LIKE ATTEMPTING TO NAIL JELLO TO A WALL.)
COLORFUL,... NERVOUS WHEN SHAKEN..UP.....BUT WITHOUT SUBSTANCE.

When you attempt to stand on your foundation of Peter... before God in judgment.... You will find that you have chosen sand
YOU HAVE REJECTED THE TRUE ROCK OF SALVATION the ROCK CHRIST JESUS...

Mat_21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Mar_12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Luk_20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
KayMarie

Carlisle, PA

#558444 Sep 1, 2014
who="Liam"]<quote d text>
You are a bold guy. You simply can't stop falsely accusing us.
We do not worship Mary, Dan. You can't provide any teaching from the Catholic or Orthodox Churches that say we are to adore the Blessed Mother.
Before you guys invented sola scripture. And made Christianity "just me my Bible and Jesus", Christianity was a world wide FAMILY. With one Father, one MOTHER, and one MEAL (the Eucharist). It still is like this today unless you're one of the forty thousand bible only sects.
We strive to become like Christ. This means we try to love His Mother like He did.
Its ridiculous that you speak for Him and suggest songs honoring His Mother offends Him! You know what offends Him? Undoing things He taught, like the Eucharist.
"Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor"

----------
Loving Jesus means LOVING HIS MOTHER LIKE HE DID ???
And you don't worship her ???

Jesus said, "IF you love ME, keep MY commandments, " NOT love my mother !!!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#558445 Sep 1, 2014
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>1 John 1:9, "IF we confess our sins,He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Jesus is our ADVOCATE,as He is our only defense against the wiles of the Devil. The Holy Spirit is the ONE who reveals the truth of His Word to us that is Christ is in us when we do not lie, and claim we are not sinners. Again,Catholics claim they do not worship Mary,but they are forming a dogma that declares her as having the Divine attribute of Christ to be an Advocate,which by the way has been in litanies and prayers to Mary for centuries.
"MY little children, these things I write to you , that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins,and not for ours only but also for the whole world."
1 John 2:1.
I find it hard to believe that any C h u r c h, has the right to form any new doctrines,than that which has already been given to us by the Apostles in the Gospels,and Epistles,along with Revelation.
Amen.....undeniable truth based on Scripture....

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#558446 Sep 1, 2014
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>]
Oxbow has said "nothing but distorted anti-catholic opinion" when it relates to the TRUE teachings about what the Catholic Church actually teaches regarding Mary....Ox continues to "blow polluted smoke" like he always has done ever since he came on this forum...
Liar...

There is no Scripture quoted to support the following...because there is none...show me the distortion in that truth....

Four Marian Dogmas have already been proclaimed. They are

Mary is the Mother of God (QeotokoV, Theotokos), proclaimed at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

Mary was Ever Virgin, before, during and after the birth of Jesus, proclaimed in 649.

Mary was immaculately conceived, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX on 8th December 1854.

Mary was assumed into heaven body and soul, proclaimed by Pope Pius XII on 1st November 1950.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#558447 Sep 1, 2014
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>I understand your post here,but in the end of it you bring out a point that again substitutes the Holy Spirit with Mary. It is soley the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives Robert F. to reveal the Risen Savior to us. Mary is still a woman,she has not been transformed into a n Angel,or a celestial being to obtain divine graces and power,in order to reveal her Son unto us.
The Catholics are taking the ministry of the Holy Spirit to illumine our hearts and minds to the CHRIST,and literally giving it to Mary.
Pad

I agree, that some might substitute the Holy Spirit's work for Mary. At least that is the outward appearance. So let me politely do some apologetics here....

Because you are an "aficionado" of EWTN, I can see appreciate your observation.

I prefer to think of it in two different ways that merge.

First, that the Holy Spirit and Mary had a "special" relationship with the overshadowing of Mary. In this way, we can see that just as Mary had one, so does the Christian have a "special" relationship, because of Jesus. So I am trying to say is that these "special" relationships merge.

From an external viewpoint one visibly sees a substitution, when it is rather a merging, just as the Body of Christ is united(though there appears to be division).

Likewise, if you view those drawn to Marian devotions, exaggerating their devotion, it may be that the Holy Spirit is in action, to which is not visibly seen as well.

Since in the end, all such devotions are expected to point out Jesus in our lives, and as His Blessed Mother said, "Do whatever He tells you", at the Marriage of Cana(which is also a typology of the Great Feast in Revelation), then those whose devotion is less that this, are in error.

It is the difference of observation and participation that makes the difference in what appears to be going on and what is really going on. And of course this can be very specific to a person, a region, or the whole RCC, or Body of Christ....
KayMarie

Carlisle, PA

#558448 Sep 1, 2014
who="June VanDerMark"]<quoted text>
But that doesn't mean that YOU are approved.
It just means that Jesus fulfilled his new Christian theology, when he resigned as a Jewish Rabbi.
You have to tread "lightly" and never presume that Jesus loves you. From his past behavior, it seems he can change his mind at any moment.
If he left Judaism behind, he could just as easily leave Christianity behind. He might (as we speak) be a Wiccan, in touch with the Goddess.
Who knows where Jesus wishes to spend eternity??? He does seem rather confused.
tongue in cheek.

----------
Jesus never left true Judaism OR the Jews behind. He came to reveal the truth about God...and He accomplished that.

The world twists 'religion' to show God as a vicious being who is anxious to inflict pain on human kind.

Jesus showed Him to be a Loving, Provisional, Promise-keeping, Faithful FATHER, Who has provided everlasting life for all those who CHOOSE to believe His Word.

You are making a choice based on the world's view...

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 13 min Gabriel 990,711
TWA Flight 800 (Jul '13) 17 min Doctor REALITY 12
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing (Mar '17) 26 min NotSoDivineMsM 47,237
Skype gay sex (Dec '14) 6 hr Caliboy 14
How do I message you about a post from the past... 7 hr elcy2015 1
Why are Europeans a race of savages, thieves, a... (Jun '15) 9 hr Paul really is dead 466
beware of raymond rotolo / ps inspections llc 11 hr what I think happ... 2
More from around the web