Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 568,575
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Michael

Kitchener, Canada

#557597 Aug 28, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
"Christian HELL" ... now that is an oxymoronic term.
Jesus came to preach LOVE and to unite humans to one CAUSE ... but if you don't belong to his religion, he will reject you to Christian HELL.
Insane ideology!
....I don't know of one person in hell. Every funeral I have attended the mourners and the clergy always say the deceased is in now heaven looking down upon us.

......ever been to a funeral where the mourners priest say he/she is in hell
Looking up?

.....all the worrying about not being saved is just a fallacy.
Michael

Kitchener, Canada

#557598 Aug 28, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
Preacher ... "The holy spirit moves me forward, and the evil spirit moves you backward."
.....like driving a car.
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#557599 Aug 28, 2014
I'm in the middle of an interesting book about a lady who was raised atheist and became a Christian. This almost didn't happen because Christianity as she began to learn, consisted of thousands of separate churches who all use the Bible but didn't agree on it. Even their Jesus' were different. Some believe He meant this, some believe He meant that. Some think God is a punishing vengeful God, electing to only save a few, sending the rest to hell. To a 'reason and logic' atheist, the idea of separate personal holograms of Jesus made it impossible to accept Christianity as an option.
The best part of the book is this: it was a forum blog similar to this and an encounter with a Catholic that made her take another look at Christianity. The idea of a Bible and individual interpretations for Christianity - given the inaccessibility of the Book for 1,500 yrs; the literacy rate then (and now)- eliminated Christianity as a serious religion. UNLESS you consider Jesus installed a kingdom with a prime minister and successors who would have real authority from God. It doesn't matter if a few in this line were scoundrels. The truth would still be protected as taught by the first successors. The Eucharist was a brilliant gift to pass on. It made sense. Anyway, I recommend it.
"Something other than God" by Jennifer Fulwiler How I passionately sought happiness and accidentally found it.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#557600 Aug 28, 2014
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>IBilly Graham is not saying that if a person is Buddhist,or whatever they are saved because of what they believe as a Buddhist,but because of what they have in their heart that draws them to God almighty.The Spirit of Christ draws men to the Father,and He is not limited by religious or political frameworks. No matter what we are not to judge or condemn a soul to hell,it is not our place!
He who believes and is baptized will be saved.(Mk 16:16)
Unless you repent you will all likewise perish.(Lk 13:3)
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.(Jn 6:54)

Christ established a Church and the Apostles appointed others and despite the claims of some protestants there is a minsiterial priesthood. It is through the church that the holy sacracments are administered Its not just John 3:16 all done.

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters" (Mt 12:30). Also: "[I]f he [a sinning brother] refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector" (Mt 18:17). Paul warned similarly: "As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned" (Ti 3:10-11).

The video leaves some doubt as to his total view, but in some respects he mirrors the teachings of the church. Those who have never heard of Christ, who do not know the teachings, but their conscience tells them something. They may be very good and sincere people even better than many Christians. Ghandi when asked if he had ever considered becoming a Christian said, "I may have if I had ever met one." Nevertheless unless as some so called Christian groups proclaim that once you are saved you suddenly become sinless forever or just conveniently say they were never really saved. A huge flaw of Once Saved Always Saved doctrines, but that is a subject unto itself.

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin" (Jn 15:22).
"If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say,We see, your guilt remains" (Jn 9:41)
When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.(Rom 2:14-16)

When Paul says the above in particular their conf.licting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them...He does not say they are saved, but it does leave the possibility open to them. "Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith" (Rom 3:29-30)

cont.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#557601 Aug 28, 2014
Salvation is through the Jews. Christ came and established a church. The Grace of Christ he would his church as an instrument. Yet Like Graham the church believes Christ came for Jew and Gentile. When Baptiized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit you enter into the Church his body. You cannot with a straight face really say Protestants are not all over the place on Doctrines, nor can you look blindly with indifference. It is written it would be better for them had they not known the truth. Here again we see If I had not come and spoken to them they would have no sin, likewise If you were blind you would have no guilt but you say I see therefore your guilt remains. Sound Doctrine thus is extremely important. When you rip away all authority other than personal interpreations there can be no assurance of being led to all truth.

I cannot speak for Graham and it may not be clear in the video presented here, but in the past he has held to the Catholic view expanded upon through Pauls words above. So Junes blathering is just that as the church never taught everyone else goes to hell automatically. The No Salvation outside the church was directed at those who were in the church and seperated from the body with foreign doctrines, because they say we see. However those who do not fully understand or know the teachings of the church who nevertheless seek to do the will of God are not condemned. The teachers will be held accountable more so than the others. To be excommunicated means you are now in the hands of God. I think the bible is rife with examples of those who led others astray. You can choose whatever opinion you please you have free will.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#557602 Aug 28, 2014
And of course hojo and Robert, who went from Protestant cults to the cult of Catholicism, are certain they moved forward from not knowing universal truth to then having the insight of wisdom to spot universal truth.

Its amazing how ego revolves around its self, spinning circular webs of illusion, that separates self from others who are also spinning circular webs for their selves with their own religious tales of nonsense that they claim is based on universal truth.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#557603 Aug 28, 2014
seriously the original wrote:
<quoted text>So do you think we all need to learn the Hebrew Language, now. Why are you arguing over minute things like that......We should read the Bible and do as it says......
Does the Hebrew Bible say to not judge anybody whom you "confrinting" chooses, but judge every body else. I don't think so.
as I said, you are a newbie on this Forum, and it is Oxbore who is arguing with everyone and acting like a doofus. you would do well to remember that and not continue to act like oxbore is doing.

the word Shabat is Hebrew for our word Sabbath.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#557604 Aug 28, 2014
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
.....like driving a car.
YUP! According to hojo, he drove forward when he joined Catholicism, and when you left Catholicism, you put your spirit in reverse and backslid away from universal truth into a realm of evil.

They LOVE their stories that fits the gigantic sizes of their EGOS.

"Me ahead ... you BACK!"
marge

West Des Moines, IA

#557605 Aug 28, 2014
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
After many years as a Christian...Having pastored (over the eastern Sea Board from Virginia to Maine.)...I am still a student of The Bible... The older I get, the more mistakes I make in typing and the less I use punctuation as I should.
At 80 years of age ....the warfare is still there and active between my spirit and my flesh.
Experience makes one wiser and more aable to keep the unredeemed flesh under subjection..
as the Bibles says ..
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
I love the Holy Scriptures, the above shows what a truly personal relationship we have with our Lord.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#557606 Aug 28, 2014
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
....I don't know of one person in hell. Every funeral I have attended the mourners and the clergy always say the deceased is in now heaven looking down upon us.
......ever been to a funeral where the mourners priest say he/she is in hell
Looking up?
.....all the worrying about not being saved is just a fallacy.
Ive been to many funerals where the preachers did not mention the word heaven or hell especially where suicide was involved, or someone died that they were sure was a heretic.

Preachers that know how to pad their nests with good fortune in the collection basket better know which words to delete from their sermons.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#557607 Aug 28, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
You are lying not only to your self ... but worse ... to others.
For decades Billy Graham preached that only Christians could be saved. Now he claimed that Muslims AND non-believers can be saved.
Don't forget that for decades he taught that non-believers were destined to eternal fiery Christian hell.
I cannot remember how many sermons I have heard billy Graham preach.SIN is the condemning entity that is preached upon.A nature of deeds and the act of the will which is alien to God. That is what preachers preach about. This business of Christians escaping hell because they are Christian is not what is preached by people called to preach like Graham,and the many you see.You have a concept of Christians being the end all of what they believe themselves to be.

It is really not the case,as from the Gospel.The gospel directs people to their state of being as a sinner,and facing an eternity with or without God. Just because someone states they are a Christian,does not settle their personal score with sin,and a life with God. God is in the business as it were of people and leading them to Himself as their Creator. Sin is the greatest deterrent to that quest by God.Not that He cannot erase sin from the earth,but that as a choice of human beings,GOD will not interfere with the free will of human beings to sin or whatever.

That will cannot be violated by force.we humans in our condition of sin FORCE our will on others,as you can see as being done so readily by so many these days.BUT GOD in His Nature cannot do so.But HE is not without the power to make men and women realize their own destructive ways.You keep putting human traits due to sin on GOD,and that is where the friction in your own experience comes into being.You equate human error and violation with God!

I hope you will come to the place June,that you must make some peace with HIM,who knows and loves you,it is to your benefit. If you don't want to hear these things than you are on the wrong forum>I know you just want to see Christians bicker back and forth,it gives you a sense of self praise as to your own concepts which are not those of Christ or of His Father.

Your rationale for being on this forum should be questioned by you when you look into the mirror everyday. You have every right of opinion,and that goes without saying,but I find it hard to understand how your ideological way of thinking fits in this forum?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#557608 Aug 28, 2014
seriously the original wrote:
<quoted text> I can only tell you how I know the Love of God was given to me.....When I asked God for his forgiveness and got saved....I immediately began to love others and wanted good for others. I seemed to be filled with joy and happiness and wanted everyone to be able to feel the same.
You didn't say "how it was given to you" - you only explained what was happening at the time.

"Asking" is a catalyst for a response not an answer to 'how it was given to you."

You sort of walked around the stage, but never really entered the stage to give your performance.

Do you want to try again?
seriously the original wrote:
<quoted text>It is a little hard to explain...... Have you ever watched the Grinch who stole Christmas......You know when his heart grew and even though he hated those who's and their Christmas before' he then loved them and gave all their stuff back and wanted to see them all happy....well that's kind of like the feeling.
Of course it "is a little hard to explain" - as it always seems this way with so-called "Christians".

a. They can't be honest enough to admit that they really don't know if they have this "grace", but will go on and on and on sayingthey do, and they know they do. NEVER contemplating on the FACT that being inherent nice to people, loving others and being kind can all be done by just making the attempt that you will.

So-called "Christians" seem to REQUIRE an outside catalyst to encroach upon these actions. Even after thye say these things, they still have a problem with admitting through honesty - that they really don't know if they do have this supposed "grace".

I call this "hard to explain incident" - emotions - something which all humans have had forever.
seriously the original wrote:
<quoted text>When I became a Christian I started caring for others.
Why did it require you to become a so-called "Christian" in order to enact the action of caring for others? You couldn't do this on your own? You do realize you are now doing it on your own, right?

"Christians" - double-talking folks who think others don't comprehend.

It appears they don't comprehend what they say.

Seriously - you will need to really dig deep into yourSelf in order to answer these questions. You can do this, even if it seems like it is an internal fight of your wits. Just be honest - that is the first step in success.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#557609 Aug 28, 2014
There is not a doubt that if hojo or Robert went back to join the Protestants, they would be perceived by devout Catholics as backsliding heretics.

NO doubt at all.

Yet they all believe that faith in Jesus saves the sinners from hellfire and damnation.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#557610 Aug 28, 2014
Dust Storm wrote:
Salvation is through the Jews. Christ came and established a church. The Grace of Christ he would his church as an instrument. Yet Like Graham the church believes Christ came for Jew and Gentile. When Baptiized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit you enter into the Church his body. You cannot with a straight face really say Protestants are not all over the place on Doctrines, nor can you look blindly with indifference. It is written it would be better for them had they not known the truth. Here again we see If I had not come and spoken to them they would have no sin, likewise If you were blind you would have no guilt but you say I see therefore your guilt remains. Sound Doctrine thus is extremely important. When you rip away all authority other than personal interpreations there can be no assurance of being led to all truth.
I cannot speak for Graham and it may not be clear in the video presented here, but in the past he has held to the Catholic view expanded upon through Pauls words above. So Junes blathering is just that as the church never taught everyone else goes to hell automatically. The No Salvation outside the church was directed at those who were in the church and seperated from the body with foreign doctrines, because they say we see. However those who do not fully understand or know the teachings of the church who nevertheless seek to do the will of God are not condemned. The teachers will be held accountable more so than the others. To be excommunicated means you are now in the hands of God. I think the bible is rife with examples of those who led others astray. You can choose whatever opinion you please you have free will.
Read both posts,well put,I do not disagree with you.YES I am concerned about people judging Graham harshly for what he said,because the context of knowing Christ and His Mercy prevails over our own quick to condemn theologies we are all guilty of at one time or another.

It is not in those religions he mentioned that eternal life exists,only in Christ,but that does not mean that Christ is not working through the power of the Holy Spirit to illumine and bring to light those of all religions,about His LOVE,and MERCY,showing the true Nature of God. June hates the concept of Universal truth,but the fact remains there is only ONE PERSON who is the "Way the Truth and the Life." and HE has as Schuller said in that video,"A WIDENESS in God's Mercy." We cannot condemn,because we do not know how the Lord Himself will Judge all,that thankfully is in His hands ALONE!
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#557611 Aug 28, 2014
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
Anthony does not own a religious society, a homosexual priest, sodomizers, idolaters, nor a Roman Catholic Church..
"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13. Acts 3." "Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel"
Repent: to be penitent for one's sins....
Anthony was baptized in a Catholic church...attends a Catholic church...follows the teaching of the Catholic church...those are not acts of sin from which he needs to repent...
You owe him an apology...big time....
"For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears."

What about following sound doctrine, Ox, does that count???
Pad

Rockford, IL

#557612 Aug 28, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
There is not a doubt that if hojo or Robert went back to join the Protestants, they would be perceived by devout Catholics as backsliding heretics.
NO doubt at all.
Yet they all believe that faith in Jesus saves the sinners from hellfire and damnation.
YES you have a point,but remember this June it is not what is taught from the Scriptures,and is the reality of who the Lord Jesus is! In fact, it is all human nature in regards to division,and self will,pride and the doctrines of men. Much of what Christians bicker over is their practices,and how they perceive what Christ meant here and there. Not that they all are wrong in their thinking,but that they do not recognize each other with the respect Christ would give to all in the same circumstances.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#557613 Aug 28, 2014
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>I know June you are quick to jump on the band wagon with CRITICS,who often should be criticized themselves for their own lack of understanding. I watched a few of the videos that are connected with the one on Billy Graham. Billy Graham has never preached any sort of watered down gospel,and his own testimony of faith has been rich,along with his sons and so on.His daughter as well has kept to the MAIN-Line as it were.
His point of people coming to Jesus or seeking after Him and (not knowing Him as the Christians claim they know Him) is taken from several Scriptures: One is that"Sheep that are not of this flock....." and or "of this fold","The Spirit of Christ". The first not of this fold or flock refers to those who although not of the same flock as the Christian,but are seekers and are being drawn by the Spirit of Christ. Even though the gospel is being preached,and there are many who come to faith in Jesus,throughout the world there are many human beings who because of the restrictions of their societies NEVER heard the gospel,nor have access to it.
The Spirit of Christ continues to DRAW all men unto the Father,and that is without restriction,as the Lord travailed over the souls of MEN,WOMEN and Children and was satisfied.That is basically taken from Isaiah 53. There are Jews,Muslims,Buddhists,and constituents of many religious backgrounds who are seekers and want truth.Their religion and society they live in restrict them to that which they were born into.But Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit draws them to the true knowledge of the Father. People forget especially in the Christian world that CHRIST foremost pointed people to the FATHER.
The attributes,holiness,and COMFORT of the Father is through His Son,but all human kind is in need of the grace,and Joy,that comes from the Father,since He in fact is the Creator.So in a world that basically denies the Person of God,there has to be a witness from the Father through His only Son to a human heart that is seeking. That is why when the gospel is preached,many in all nations are open to the Lord,and of course there are many who will not receive or believe.
Your trying to say through that video that Billy Graham is a fraud,and whatnot,is really not true.Joel Osteen and other big preachers are actually not frauds,but are criticized by many Christian circles,it is understandable,but it is also a bit of selfish pride that many preachers view these men who are big in the whole picture of preaching the gospel. I do not agree with the methods always used to evangelize,but I have learned to listen intently to the message,and to see the results of that message.Many people are changed,and that is the most important result,the changed life from a selfish one to that of becoming a child of God,and seeking HIM,rather than a life without Him.
Many criticize all the big name preachers,and some of their remarks can be true as to how they view the people who are so popular with so many huge crowds that attend these churches.
Billy Graham is not saying that if a person is Buddhist,or whatever they are saved because of what they believe as a Buddhist,but because of what they have in their heart that draws them to God almighty.The Spirit of Christ draws men to the Father,and He is not limited by religious or political frameworks. There are many of Good Will in all facets of life who seek to do good,and to live just lives. But we Christians KNOW,that the works or deeds of a person does not save them,because than Christ's sacrifice on the Cross means nothing.Grace can only be applied by Christ.
No matter what we are not to judge or condemn a soul to hell,it is not our place!
PAD,

As Christians, one of our responsibilities is to KNOW what sound doctrine is.....

Since what takes up residence in our minds is of great consequence with regard to our salvation, we must constantly be on guard.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#557614 Aug 28, 2014
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, now that we can move forward and the straight line idea is out.
Is "forward" generally more linear or circular?
I guess one could move "forward" in both of those.

I prefer to be linear.....instead of going round and round.

:o)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#557615 Aug 28, 2014
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
I was a little surprised to read a few of those NDE testimonies on that site. Thanks for the link.
When I first saw the link, I was thinking of when an athiest and I were discussing his NDE experience a couple years ago.
He said that there was nothing there. When I asked what he meant by that, he went on to explain that as he "looked around", he saw nothing to report about. He kept insisting that "there was nothing there" and human death was the ultimate end.
It took a few minutes talking with him for him to realize what he had actually reported ... his consciousness while there. He KNEW he was beyond the grave ... and was conscious of it.
As far as I know, that realization changed his life completely because he was totally shocked and a little unhinged at first to realize that he had actually witnessed what he thought, and had preached about not existing ... did exist. His final comment to me was, "I wonder what I could have seen had I really looked.".
Perception. Perecption exists beyond the grave too.
This phenomenon is quite a debacle, huh?

Interesting to say the least.

I love the searches I've been on to find more about this, and after 35+ years of doing this search....IMO - our consciousness will extend past these reality.
Many will not believe this, many will. Of course - experience will solidify my belief, but in the meantime, I've found that I really can't change my mind to say "nothing exists".

I also can't come to say - "only christians will be in heaven" - as I believe that to be highly unlikely as well, based upon NDEs - and the way so-called "Christians" treat others with so much disrespect and unkindness.

Glad to help with the link.

Cheers!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#557616 Aug 28, 2014
seriously the original wrote:
<quoted text>God loves Billy and Muslims....He gives everyone a chance to be saved. It is up to us what we do with it!
Self.

Why don't you believe Jesus when he speaks of this entity?

Why would anyone refuse to acknowledge these teachings by Jesus?

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