Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 646639 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534326 May 3, 2014
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
QUESTION.
Just what word is Jesus speaking about when he spoke about.
WORD OF THE KINGDOM..?..
When did Jesus convert to your Protestant cult in order to suit your starvation in the belief that you are special???

WHEN???

You idiot!

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534327 May 3, 2014
concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL well I now can only post through you to show the thread how a RC defends his faith with deceit and lies
And the Protestants have stretched the lies even further.

Whether the lies will back-lash and slap the believers into an awakened frame of mind, is still only a matter of opinion.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#534328 May 3, 2014
who="Anthony MN" <quoted text>
Sola scriptura ("Bible alone")
... The "unhappy divisions", not only between sect and sect but within the same sect, have become a byword. They are due to the pride of private intellect, and they can only be healed by humble submission to a Divine authority.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm

----------
Bible students have much to learn, but the Holy Spirit is a patient Teacher. It's worth is found in the fact that those who depend on The Word alone, are depending on a TRULY DIVINE AUTHORITY, not a man, or group of men, who declare that THEY are divine.

KayMarie

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534329 May 3, 2014
confrinting with the word wrote:
[who="June VanDerMark" I knew a man who had lived his long life as an Agnostic, and had treated his family well, until the Jehovah's Witnesses managed to frighten him when he was in his eighties into their cult.
The poor old man was scared out of his wits that his wife would be left out of his imagined wonderful experience in the hereafter, and he kept irritating her against her will with his messages of supposed truth until she had a nervous breakdown.
After much misery, at last death gave both of them relieve from religion.
----------
As you said, June..."he was frightened into a cult", and tried to do the same to his wife. JW is another cult that denies that Jesus is God, so they miss the power of faith which ONLY COMES FROM GOD THROUGH JESUS.
I have known thousands of men and women who have lived good, peaceful lives when they accepted the promises of the LIVING God, believing that God's Son has set them free from the penalty of sin.
Even IF there were no God, nor any hereafter, SUCH LIVES ARE OF GREAT VALUE IN THE HERE-AND-NOW !!! BUT I KNOW THAT GOD LIVES...
KayMarie
Because you were indoctrinated into your specific cult as claiming it owned the truth ... you don't see that you are as indoctrinated into self-indulgence as are the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Catholics, or the Muslims, or the Hindus, or the Buddhists or the modern Pagans, or any other religious cult.

Cult is cult ... period.

You wanted to believe you were special and that lie is what sucked you in to your Protestant cult.

You will see, ONLY when you want to see that you have been played for a fool, by master theologians of word-manipulation.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534330 May 3, 2014
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="Anthony MN" <quoted text>
Sola scriptura ("Bible alone")
... The "unhappy divisions", not only between sect and sect but within the same sect, have become a byword. They are due to the pride of private intellect, and they can only be healed by humble submission to a Divine authority.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm
----------
Bible students have much to learn, but the Holy Spirit is a patient Teacher. It's worth is found in the fact that those who depend on The Word alone, are depending on a TRULY DIVINE AUTHORITY, not a man, or group of men, who declare that THEY are divine.
KayMarie
Anthony is certain that the supposed Holy Spirit favors only Catholics ... and you are certain that the Holy Spirit favors only Protestants of your specific belief ... Jehovah's Witnesses not included.

Religion thrives on human arrogance.

Non-human animals are fortunate not be included in such blatant stupidity.
concerned in Brasil

Europe

#534331 May 3, 2014
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Sola scriptura ("Bible alone")
The belief in the Bible as the sole source of faith is unhistorical, illogical, fatal to the virtue of faith, and destructive of unity.

cut do to being deceitful
Sola scriptura ("Bible alone")
The belief in the Bible as the sole source of faith

Your straw man does not go by unnoticed this is not what is meant by Sola scriptoria.
Again it does not go unnoticed you are posting another rabbit trail a distraction from the fact you can't defend the premise of this thread.

I know you know what Sola Scriptoria means but again you are being slanderous and miss representing the facts so you can distract from you inability to defend your sects claims but for those reading along.

This is what Sola Scriptoria is as revealed in Scripture and practiced by Jesus his Apostles and the early church and by true Christians for the past 2000 years.

Let me begin with certain clarifications so as not to be misunderstood. I am not arguing that all truth is to be found in the Bible, or that the Bible is the only form in which the truth of God has come to His people. I am not arguing that every verse in the Bible is equally clear to every reader. Nor am I arguing that the church — both the people of God and the ministerial office — is not of great value and help in understanding the Scripture. As William Whitaker stated in his noble work:“For we also say that the church is the interpreter of Scripture, and that the gift of interpretation resides only in the church: but we deny that it pertains to particular persons, or is tied to any particular see or succession of men.”1

The Protestant position, and my position, is that all things necessary for salvation and concerning faith and life are taught in the Bible clearly enough for the ordinary believer to find it there and understand.

The position I am defending certainly is what is taught in the Bible itself. For example, Deuteronomy 31:9 states:“Moses wrote down this law....” Moses instructed the people by writing down the law and then ordering that it be read to them “so they can listen and learn to fear the Lord your God and follow carefully all the words of this law,” Deuteronomy 31:9, 12.

Moses declared to all Israel:“Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law. They are not just idle words for you, they are your life,” Deuteronomy 32:46, 47.

Notice the clear elements in these passages:

The Word of which Moses spoke was written.
The people can and must listen to it and learn it.
In this Word they can find life.
The people do not need any additional institution to interpret the Word. The priests, prophets, and scribes of Israel certainly function to help the people ministerially. But the Word alone was sufficient for salvation. The prophets, who were indeed inspired, came very much in the spirit of Micah who said,“He has shown you, O man, what is good,” Micah 6:8. The function of the prophets and priests was not to add to or even clarify the law; rather, they applied it to the people who were sinfully indifferent.

cont...
concerned in Brasil

Europe

#534332 May 3, 2014
If this principle of the sufficiency and clarity of the Word is true in the Old Testament, we can assume that it is all the more true in the New. The New Testament gloriously fulfills what the Old Testament promises. But we do not have to assume it; rather, the New Testament makes clear that the character of Scripture is to be sufficient and clear. One example of that is found in 2 Timothy 3, 4. Here Paul writes to his younger brother in the faith, Timothy. He writes that Timothy — who was instructed in the faith by his mother and grandmother — has also learned all about Paul’s teaching (3:10). Timothy has been mightily helped by all sorts of oral teaching, some of it apostolic. Yet Paul writes these words to Timothy:
And indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them; and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.(2 Timothy 3:12; 4:5)
You see, Paul reminds Timothy that the Scriptures are able to make him wise unto salvation in Christ Jesus (3:15). He teaches that the Scriptures are useful for teaching, reproof (rebuking), correcting, and training in righteousness (3:16). Because the Scriptures have this character, they thoroughly equip the man of God for every good work (3:17). So Paul tells Timothy that he must preach this Word, even though the time is coming when people will not want to hear it, but rather will want teachers to suit their fancy, who will instruct them in myths rather than the truth of the Word (4:1-4).

cont...
concerned in Brasil

Europe

#534333 May 3, 2014
The force and clarity of the Apostle’s teaching here are striking. In spite of the rich oral teaching Timothy had, he is to preach the Scriptures because those Scriptures give him clearly all that he needs for wisdom and preparation to instruct the people of God in faith and all good works. The Scripture makes him wise for salvation, and equips him with everything he needs for doing every good work required of the preacher of God. The sufficiency and clarity of the Word are taught in this one section of Scripture over and over again. John Chrysostom paraphrased the meaning of Paul’s words to Timothy this way:“You have Scripture for a master instead of me; from there you can learn whatever you would know.”2

I have listened to several taped debates on this topic. Often Protestant apologists have cited 2 Timothy 3 against Roman opponents. The usual response of Catholic apologists is to repeatedly assert that 2 Timothy 3 does not teach sufficiency. Sometimes they will refer to James 1:4, Matthew 19:21, or Colossians 1:28 and 4:12 as parallel texts, claiming that the word “complete” in 2 Timothy 3:17 does not mean sufficient. But such passages are not parallel; a completely different Greek word is used. Where 2 Timothy 3:17 uses exartizo, which has to do with being fitted for a task, these other passages use the Greek word teleios, which has reference to maturity or having reached a desired end.

Repeated assertions do not prove a point; that is only a propaganda technique. Our opponents need to answer in a responsible, thorough way.

The confidence that Paul had in the Scriptures, and which he taught Timothy, was clearly understood by the great church father, Augustine. In his treatise to prepare leaders of the church in an understanding of the Bible (0n Christian Doctrine), Augustine wrote:“Among those things which are said openly in Scripture are to be found all those teachings which involve faith, the mores of living, and that hope and charity which we have discussed.”3

The whole footnoted verifiable article is at

What Do We Mean by
Sola Scriptura?

by Dr. W. Robert Godfrey
http://www.the-highway.com/Sola_Scriptura_God...

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534334 May 3, 2014
My father (who was an ex-Catholic member of the Rosicrucians believed that Jesus was just one of the Christs or messengers that came to earth to raise the spiritual awareness of humans.

The Rosicrucian Order were of the Gnostic Christian religion.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>

How Gnostic Jesus Became the Christ of Scholars

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/...

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534336 May 3, 2014
Members of the Rosicrucian Order also believed they were full of "knowledge" from on high.

Brewers Dictionary of Phrase and Fable.

Vere adeptus (Lat. one who has truly attained). A title assumed by one admitted to the fraternity of the ROSICRUCIANS.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#534337 May 3, 2014
who="Anthony MN"]<quoted text>
As a non-bible alone Catholic Christian, your protestant fundamentalist opinion of me matters as much as the gum I scrape off my shoe. Particularly since I think you're mentally deranged. No sane person would call his bible God.
But it should matter to marge because you two both think you're saved by having faith in your bible alone.

----------
No sane person would call the Bible 'God'? Read this slowly:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word WAS with God, and the Word WAS God.

Whose word comes out of YOUR mouth? Is it not part of you? Jesus said that, "Out of the heart the mouth speaks." God spoke His Word out of His mouth, "and His Word became flesh (Jesus) and lived among us".

We are saved by faith in Jesus (The Word of God) which is revealed to us through the Bible, and by His Spirit.

Insanity is to deny His Word which has stood and will stand forever...and try to be saved by the words of strangers long forgotten. As June tells us, many of those strangers have written of supposed miracles, etc., but NONE OF THEM HAS STOOD THE TEST OF TIME. Nor have they purified the lives of those who hoped in them.

I've known many real Saints who became such by trusting in The Word.

Ask HIM...don't take my word for it...or anyone else's; not cowboy, nor marge, nor Augustine, etc.
HE is alive...and lives forever.

Many have found Him by simply saying, "IF YOU ARE REAL, reveal yourself to me." Currently many Muslims, Hindu's and others are finding Him through dreams and visions." (In the last days I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh. Your old men shall dream dreams, and see visions... Your sons and daughters shall prophesy...")

It is not an 'opinion', nor an interpretation. It is the LIVING WORD OF GOD, and He is trustworthy. Mal 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not..."

Sure, some folks have much to learn, but we can't judge the Bible (Word of God) by their lack of knowledge. Time and the Word will take care of that. II Tim. 2:15

KayMarie

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534338 May 3, 2014
These are the ones that scammed my father into believing that if he sent them his money, he would learn God's wisdom.

They omitted the part of the story that THEY were scam-artists in god-garbs.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >

Rosicrucian Order AMORC | Rosicrucian Digest: Gnosticism

https://www.rosicrucian.org/publications/dige...
Gods R Delusions x Mine

Orlando, FL

#534339 May 3, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You're not telling me why any historian or Jewish religious scholar who was a contemporary of Jesus would write about him at all.
The areas where Jesus lived were controlled by the Roman Empire. Jewish scholars in that area wrote about Judaism.
Neither the Roman Empire nor the Judaic hierarchy of the area had any regard for Jesus. The Romans thought him a kook or a rabble-rouser if they DID regard him at all, and they only came to know about Him as He was brought to their attention by the Jewish hierarchy, who rejected Him.
Jewish scholars don't commemorate those they regard as heretics, and Roman scribes don't commemorate local flakes who get foisted off on them by their Jewish subjects.
I told you "why."

Copied from my post --> "thousands of followers, miracle after miracle, raising folks from the dead -- supposedly the most important person who ever lived."

OK, let's agree that an observant Jew of this kind somehow went unrecorded by contemporary writers throughout the region.

OK, let's agree it's somehow plausible that no contemporary documentation is part of God's grand plan.

Let's agree that the historical cookie-cutter nature of the story also part of God's grand plan.

I would love to have a near-guaranteed ticket to eternal bliss. Please tell me 3 things.

#1... For what purpose did Jesus appoint the CC?

#2... Do you believe that God is pleased with the results?

#3... Why or why not?

Thanks.
concerned in Brasil

Europe

#534340 May 3, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I've read that section, and it's an outstanding treatise outlining the nature of atem's responses when confronted with what would presume to be an "authority" in protestant thought (the Rev. Dr. Williams whom I cited a couple of days back).
"Private judgment is fatal to the theological virtue of faith."
Right on.
Again I must point out both you and Ant are making up Straw man

Sola scriptoria is not an Individual or private interpretation.

It means all that is needed for salvation and Faith in God is found in the scriptures and that any tradition outside of the scripture that contradicts the Scripture is and must be rejected to maintain faith and salvation.

Sola scriptoria does negate elders and laymen coming together to search the scriptures together for God's meanings, in Fact Sola Scriptoria affirms this as Paul affirmed the BEREANS note plural more than one for searching the scriptures daily together in a group to see if what Paul taught was true.

If one is Sola Sciptoria they will form fellowships and Appoint Elders and engage with other Fellowships to obtain the true meaning of Scripture but they will not allow Tradition of men to contaminate this especially if the tradition contradicts Scripture the word of God.

In fact the worlds largest sect that allows private interpretation is the RCC if the Pope setting on the chair tomorrow of Peter says Mary is God the forth personage of the God head that's it done deal no one can argue he is Pope the Vicar of Christ and RC's believe he is infallible when speaking from the chair of Peter, now that truly is private and individual interpretation Gone WILD

It is the RC putting up a straw man that Sola Sciptoria is an individual interpretation it is not and never has been.

YOU are defeating something that Evangelical Sola scriptoria Christians do not do or believe.

Easy to win that argument but it is disingenuous and deceitful to miss represent others beliefs and with you two there is no excuse as you know better and this can only be intentionally done on both your parts

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534341 May 3, 2014
confrinting with the word wrote:
[ BUT I KNOW THAT GOD LIVES...
KayMarie
I want you to be honest with your self and ask your self this ONE question ... just to start you on the road to de-hypnotize your self.

"Why is it that I believe 'I' am qualified to be a messenger of God and always believe that others that disagree with my theology are not qualified to be messengers of God?"
Gods R Delusions x Mine

Orlando, FL

#534342 May 3, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
What "reality" do you want here?
The RCC does exist 2000 years after the fact. That's "reality", isn't it?
No one ever claimed that the existence of the Church would "cure" moral evil;. Christ didn't make that claim.
OK, let's agree again. The CC, later RCC has been around for 2000 years. It is a well organized, powerful and wealthy organization.

Thanks for telling us what the RCC does NOT claim.

We agree that Jesus didn't appoint the RCC for the purpose of becoming rich and powerful, or am I wrong?

I was hoping to hear "reality" regarding how successful the RCC has been in pursuit of its claims. How does the RCC stand after 2000 years of being God's appointed and guided church?

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534343 May 3, 2014
Gods R Delusions x Mine wrote:
<quoted text>
#1... For what purpose did Jesus appoint the CC?
#2... Do you believe that God is pleased with the results?
From my point of view, truthful theology would BE ... if Judaism was at first favored by the one Abrahamic god, then his covenant would never have been broken with the Jews.

And that would mean (again within the theology) that Jehovah God would know that Jesus indeed was a fake messiah when he turned away from the Jews as God's chosen few.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#534344 May 3, 2014
Gods R Delusions x Mine wrote:
<quoted text>
How does the RCC stand after 2000 years of being God's appointed and guided church?
The new pope is trying to make the organization appear as a network of God's good deeds on earth.

The Vatican has been accused of money laundering because the hierarchy has too much wealth in its possession ... while the babies in Mother Teresa's "care" were starving to death for lack of food.

If there is justice, it sure is not on earth.
Liam

Denver, CO

#534345 May 3, 2014
concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
Another RC with his head in the sand.
Nope the best you or Anthony can do is name call.
Can't give evidence to show your sect has existed for the last 2000 years can't refute RCC history with all the blood and dogma dogma no less to torture and execute heretics for over 400+ years.
That's Romes legacy that's her tradition and it does not matter how many orphanages and good works the RCC does now the cat is still out of the bag and the RCC can never claim she is the one true anything. You can white wash the truth all you want but Truth is Truth Facts are Facts Rome did what she did. You can't go back and undo it, the only thing is to repent and give it up to God and humble yourself but like the Pharisees of old you too like the your man made institution more than the truth.
You can have your delusion that is your choice but when you go spouting to the innocent and try to deceive them with your RCC lies I will stand and call your sect for what it is a lie.
Do you have a verse where Jesus or His apostles give us a list of books for sola Scriptura? Do they ever say why the epistle of Barnabas, Didache, and 1Clement are out....Hebrews, Luke and Revelation are in?
Anthony makes you look ridiculous. I dont see him doing much name calling either. Your arguments are easily disputed.. Of course your arrogance doesnt allow you to see it.
You say the Church murdered 80 million. Oldjg says the Book of Wisdom is a Roman Catholic forgery. Preston says God verbally communicated with him..
come on, is this really a challenge refuting you fundies? All you do force yourself to be ignorant. It aint fair how y'all are allowed to have this as part of your Christianity. We Catholics dont have that luxury. We have to use reason and logic. We cant ignore truth.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#534346 May 3, 2014
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
QUESTION.
Just what word is Jesus speaking about when he spoke about.
WORD OF THE KINGDOM..?..
It is surely not your catechism ...
Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one
heareth
the word of the kingdom,
and understandeth it not,
then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away
that which was sown in his heart.
It surely IS in the Catechism. But you wouldn't know it because you refuse to read it and would rather lie about it.

It reads "HEARETH the word of the kingdom". And it says "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

It doesn't say "READETH the word in my abridged version and decideth on my own what it means, rejecting the opinions of all the Christians who cameth before me" like your bible must read.

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