Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 603567 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#508880 Jan 26, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
The original church-fathers wrote the new testament.
They stated that the Jews were the enemies of Jesus, and on that note they slaughtered the Jews century after century.
If you don't believe as they believed ... then stop stating that you are a Catholic ... because you are NOT an original died in the wool Catholic.
You have made Catholicism over in your own image and are now willing to pretend that the original Catholics were lovable teddy bears as you perceive is YOUR supposed lovable nature.
I suggest you stop being ridiculous.
June

Then I suppose one should be called a modified Catholic, or reinvented Catholic. But why reinvent the wheel?

There were good guys, and bad guys in the Early Church. It would seem they had a hard time separating them out, as we do today. In just 20 centuries, I don't think we have changed much as human beings....

Perhaps one might take greater care with whom they call their friend. Agreed?
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#508881 Jan 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
"Wherever two or three are gathered...."
You can look at the evidence from this forum and know that this line is taken out of context..
In context about 5 verses before in Mathew it says:
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

So, according to the Protestant the need to go to the church which could be their living room gathering with say a husband and a wife and poof! There he is. No more need for marriage counselors. Its all done! LTM doesnt look fat in that outfit. lol That part about reduncancy of going to the church or admonishing someone well that was just added by some Catholic later. Another invisible verse to the Protestant whose church is whatever they wish it to be.

Then after we read.
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

So here we have Jesus giving Peter the keys Isaiah 22:22 He changes his name and says whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. But well that is not convenient so toss that out. So all Jewish Rabbis had authority to bind and loose as a collective, but not to the exclusion of the Key Holder. Thus the Catholic Church is identical as the fulfillment of the Jewish Faith. Christ is the King and the Key holder and his ministers are his servant. What Power would anyone have to bind and loose if one group says I dont believe that or I am not going to do that. It was concerning doctrinal matters. Witnessing was always part of it.
Remember, in the original texts there were no numberings of Chapter and Verse. It was simply "The Gospel of Matthew"....one long book. The ideas naturally flowed. Given the immediate context of the original quote above, I think we can clearly see what Matthew's idea of "Church" is.

So, the obvious question presents itself: "If all it takes are two people gathered in Jesus's name to form a 'Church', then what's to stop some rogue who won't listen to the 'Church' from rebelling from that 'Church' and forming his own 'Church'?" It makes a farce of the idea of authority, and even of the idea of "Church" because if all it takes is some clique to say, "We're gathered in Jesus's name, therefore we have His authority," there is no real way that group can anathematize an individual as Jesus commanded in the quote above. Why not? Because that person can simply gather a few people together and start their own Church and hey if someone doesnt like it just hop to another house. A clearly unique one faith message. There is no need for preachers. Everyone is an authority. The bible told them so. In Marges church you have to smoke a bong to have a vision first though. ;0

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#508882 Jan 26, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
So you maintain that you are Catholic, but don't ponder on the idea that you will go to heaven???
You are not at all credible in what you post.
June

I am neither a Catholic or a Protestant. Just trying to follow Jesus. That's enough for me to think about. It keeps my feet on the ground. Once in awhile I get glimpses of heaven, but I try not to let it go to my head....

My world view changes. I can't say when, and how, but it does....
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#508883 Jan 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't need to memorize the catechism and Bible to be Catholic. Jesus didn't make it that complicated. You can see the visible pillar and foundation of truth and you go to Confession and receive the Eucharist. voila.
Real faith in Jesus is realizing that He protects His Church from error when teaching on faith and morals. Even the worst scoundrels in Church history couldn't damage the protected teachings of the Church. Nothing can bring it down.
Original Protestants agreed that the Catholic Church was the one started by the Lord, but it fell wayward. Modern Protestant/fundamental born againers disregard any notion that the CC could have been right at anytime in human history. Therefore, their whole theology is set against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Period!
Original Protestants lacked faith. Modern Protestants lack faith and brains. They force themselves to become incredibly ignorant.
..... 2000 long years of catholicism 68 million catholics in the most envied country In the world.

......Catholics criticize jahova witnesses for selling religion door to door. Catholicism does exactly the same thing going tent to tent in poor countries.

.....Organized religion is all about competition with each other.

........Just 500 years of protestantism and 155 Million protestants in america.

.......The vast majority of roman catholics in the world reside in very poor uneducated countries where they are promised fresh water wells and school for their kids if they give up their thousands of years traditions and join catholicism. Do they really have a choice?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#508884 Jan 26, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you veer off your own subject.
You claim you are a Catholic. Catholics believe in heaven and hell ... not reincarnation.
I suggest you are not even close to being faithful to Catholicism.
June

In a classical sense, you are right, I am not faithful to Roman Catholicism.

But if more RCs thought like me, then I would be a classic. I am old enough to be an antique already.(smiles)

Maybe you are starting to understand me ? That's a scary thought!
LTM

Sioux Lookout, Canada

#508885 Jan 26, 2014
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
I remember when I went to catholic church when MOST catholics use to go to mass. When we went up for communion we kneeled in front of the altar showing respect. Today no one kneels down, everyone just shuffles along in a line standing and slouching with your hand out. No respect.
Today less than 1 in 4 catholics in america goes to sunday mass as required. Less than 2%, that is right! 2% of catholics attend daily mass that is offered at many Catholic churches in most towns and cities in america.
If catholics claim their church is the most important thing in their lives, yet 98% of catholics won't even make the sacrifice or find the time to attend daily mass.
What a bunch of hipicrites!
No respect anymore!
Well I find they have no respect for God at all. If you look around a catholic church you will see big statues of the saints, and Mary. But Jesus is represented as a infant in Mary's arms died on the cross, as a rotten corpse on a stick.
to add insult to that they claim Jesus is in a wafer, which represents His body, and ferment wine represents His blood.
They made the savior of the world, as represented by earthy material made by human hands.
"EXCUSE ME FOR YELL MICHAEL ITS NOT AT YOU.
THESE SAME PEOPLE BELIEVE A MAN OF SIN AS WE ALL ARE CAN ORDER JESUS INTO A WAFER.
I KNOW YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD MICHAEL BUT CAN YOU SEE HOW .OUTRAGEOUS THAT IS.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#508886 Jan 26, 2014
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
In context about 5 verses before in Mathew it says:
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
So, according to the Protestant the need to go to the church which could be their living room gathering with say a husband and a wife and poof! There he is. No more need for marriage counselors. Its all done! LTM doesnt look fat in that outfit. lol That part about reduncancy of going to the church or admonishing someone well that was just added by some Catholic later. Another invisible verse to the Protestant whose church is whatever they wish it to be.
Then after we read.
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
So here we have Jesus giving Peter the keys Isaiah 22:22 He changes his name and says whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. But well that is not convenient so toss that out. So all Jewish Rabbis had authority to bind and loose as a collective, but not to the exclusion of the Key Holder. Thus the Catholic Church is identical as the fulfillment of the Jewish Faith. Christ is the King and the Key holder and his ministers are his servant. What Power would anyone have to bind and loose if one group says I dont believe that or I am not going to do that. It was concerning doctrinal matters. Witnessing was always part of it.
Remember, in the original texts there were no numberings of Chapter and Verse. It was simply "The Gospel of Matthew"....one long book. The ideas naturally flowed. Given the immediate context of the original quote above, I think we can clearly see what Matthew's idea of "Church" is.
So, the obvious question presents itself: "If all it takes are two people gathered in Jesus's name to form a 'Church', then what's to stop some rogue who won't listen to the 'Church' from rebelling from that 'Church' and forming his own 'Church'?" It makes a farce of the idea of authority, and even of the idea of "Church" because if all it takes is some clique to say, "We're gathered in Jesus's name, therefore we have His authority," there is no real way that group can anathematize an individual as Jesus commanded in the quote above. Why not? Because that person can simply gather a few people together and start their own Church and hey if someone doesnt like it just hop to another house. A clearly unique one faith message. There is no need for preachers. Everyone is an authority. The bible told them so. In Marges church you have to smoke a bong to have a vision first though. ;0
Are you saying God loves you more than protestants? Are you claiming your are more entitled to gods love than protestants?

If you say no what is your point in criticizing them in every post you make?

I am sure God is not happy or impressed with your comments, about a large group of believers (protestants) that praises and worships the same God as you do.

If there is an all loving God he has you on probation.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#508887 Jan 26, 2014
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your church fathers Jesus perceived the Jews as enemies and wanted the Jews slayed.
Do you agree with your church fathers that Jesus was PERFECT???
June

I have no alternative. Jesus is perfect. But learned obedience in the flesh under the Will of God while on earth....That is something I lack in both areas of my life.

What would be the point of following an imperfect God?
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#508888 Jan 26, 2014
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
June
I am neither a Catholic or a Protestant. Just trying to follow Jesus. That's enough for me to think about. It keeps my feet on the ground. Once in awhile I get glimpses of heaven, but I try not to let it go to my head....
My world view changes. I can't say when, and how, but it does....
So you are an independent christian. Make up you mind!
LTM

Sioux Lookout, Canada

#508889 Jan 26, 2014
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
..... 2000 long years of catholicism 68 million catholics in the most envied country In the world.
......Catholics criticize jahova witnesses for selling religion door to door. Catholicism does exactly the same thing going tent to tent in poor countries.
.....Organized religion is all about competition with each other.
........Just 500 years of protestantism and 155 Million protestants in america.
.......The vast majority of roman catholics in the world reside in very poor uneducated countries where they are promised fresh water wells and school for their kids if they give up their thousands of years traditions and join catholicism. Do they really have a choice?
I can't believe there is that many Michael, world wide there are believers who simply follow Christ without any of the religious mumbo jumbo.
That is not what pierces the heart of man, Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Liam

Chicago, IL

#508890 Jan 26, 2014
Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text> Real faith in Jesus is realizing that He protects His Church from error when teaching on faith and morals. Even the worst scoundrels in Church history couldn't damage the protected teachings of the Church. Nothing can bring it down.Thats what you said?? Your kidding right?
You really believe that Christ is protecting your Church " from error when teaching FAITH AND MORALS". I DONT THINK SOOOOOO.....will you please rephrase that..lol
Well, someone is supposed to safeguard the truth. How else are we supposed to know?... Who is it?

I highly respect the Orthodox Churches, but you guys lack unification. There is no visible authority. what do you do when the people look to you for an important answer on something like contraception? There has to be only one truth on contraception. You could Google it all day and you won't find the Orthodox Church telling the folks what the truth is about Contraception. We talked about this before. One Church says no. The next Orthodox nation says yes.
There is one item I read where the Orthodox Church spoke out against it. Then the government got mad and the Church changed their mind.
Like I said, I respect the Orthodox faith. Nobody preserves the Sacraments and Mass better. But its so unidentifiable, it couldn't be the visible pillar and foundation that is required.. Salvation is so important that the truth has to be clearly defined and the Church visible. Nobody on earth fits that category like the Catholic Church. Even the most ignorant of ignorant Muslims in the most ignorant Muslim countries are aware who Pope Francis is. A simple Google search will reveal clearly what the Gospel the Catholic Church teaches consist of.
LTM

Sioux Lookout, Canada

#508891 Jan 26, 2014
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Hank. I'm asking LTM (I think she disappeared) to tell us the TRUE Gospel as she says Catholics have never heard it and presumably she has. BTW, she thinks you as a coc member, hasn't heard it either.
I have not desappeared Anthony. I have a husband, 2 cats, a dog, that need to be feed and a house to look after.
I have one kitty who doesn't walk anymore, I have to carry her everywhere. She's like us as we get old arthritis she needs care .
Besides we have said everything we have to say to each other, you believe a church is made of mortor and brick I believe the church is people .
In the Apostles’ day,“church” never meant a building. If you had walked up to Peter or Paul and said,“Where do you go to church?” They probably wouldn’t have understood what you meant. Peter might have answered,“What do you mean where do I go to Church? I am the Church!”

The Church was (and is) the people of the Body of Christ. Nowhere in the Bible was a building ever called a “church.” They never attended a building that they called “church.” They never built a building that they called “church.” Going to a building that’s called “church” on scheduled days, week in and week out, would be very foreign to the first Church. Sitting on a pew and following a routine service or ceremony never happened in the Bible.

I know that there’s been quite a holy twirl placed on that meaning. The church is the “called out,” the “separated from the evil world.” But never was the church meant to be so separated that we hide behind lovely buildings and comfort each other that we are “saved,”“sanctified” and “holier than thou.”(Isaiah 65:5)

But have you ever thought that the Church is the origin from where the message is “called out”(The point from where action proceeds -- and that action is to call!)? The Church is that catalyst from where the Gospel of Truth goes forth into the world. The Apostles and saints “ceased not to teach and preach Yeshua Christ ... in the temple and in every house”(Acts 5:42). And when the scripture says “temple,” it means the Jewish Temple. Not a “Christian Temple,” because such a thing did not exist in the Apostles’ day.
cont
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#508892 Jan 26, 2014
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I find they have no respect for God at all. If you look around a catholic church you will see big statues of the saints, and Mary. But Jesus is represented as a infant in Mary's arms died on the cross, as a rotten corpse on a stick.
to add insult to that they claim Jesus is in a wafer, which represents His body, and ferment wine represents His blood.
They made the savior of the world, as represented by earthy material made by human hands.
"EXCUSE ME FOR YELL MICHAEL ITS NOT AT YOU.
THESE SAME PEOPLE BELIEVE A MAN OF SIN AS WE ALL ARE CAN ORDER JESUS INTO A WAFER.
I KNOW YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD MICHAEL BUT CAN YOU SEE HOW .OUTRAGEOUS THAT IS.
Hello LTM!

At this point in my life I am an agnostic.

When I was a kid in the 1950s, over 80% of catholics attended weekly Sunday mass. Today, the american bishops conference, the pew research center, and CARA, indicate today the numbers are reversed. In just 55 years.

The largest loss is from young catholics. One generation loss in large numbers could spell disaster for catholicism in the next generation and future generations in the USA/CANADA Catholic church.

A lot of young catholics today do not believe in many of the catholic church traditions that their elderly parents/grandparents believe in.

One or two generations down the road we will see a much smaller catholic church in america and western Europe, as very poor uneducated people In the middle east convert to Catholicism.
LTM

Sioux Lookout, Canada

#508893 Jan 26, 2014
cont
The Church didn’t wait for people to come to them. The first Church went out into the field and preached the Truth. Yeshua told his disciples,“The harvest truly is plenteous, but the laborers are few; Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth laborers into his harvest.” Matthew 9:37-38; Luke 10:2 We’ve got to get out of the mind set that our “church” attendance is a measure of holiness and a passport to heaven. We need to be out in the fields. That’s where the harvest is. That’s what the Lord told us to do. He never told us to go into all the world and build temporal buildings. The Apostles never operated from within a building’s walls that they called “church.” They were constantly out in the field. The only time that the first Church was found in a temple was when they were either preaching in a Jewish temple (where they went to convert the Jews) or when they went to a temple of some sort of false doctrine, like Mars Hill (Acts 17:19).

We may wonder (here in the United States, specifically) why it is that we don’t have all the power that the first Church had and why we aren’t persecuted like the early Church was. These two actions go hand in hand, because both actions follow the preaching of God’s Word when it is preached to those who are not Christians. God confirms His Truth with signs and wonders (Mark 16:20). Satan, on the other hand, doesn’t want the Truth preached, so he stirs up persecution against Christians that are preaching the Truth. Nevertheless, the Church grows through the preaching of the Word, and signs and wonders from God will accompany it -- along with persecution.

Now I can assure you, if you go down to any street corner and preach Yeshua Christ and how the Church is supposed to be operating and the whole Truth -- you will be persecuted. God assures you that if you believe, if you have followed the doctrine of Christ, if you have received His Spirit and go out into the fields and preach all the Truth -- God, Himself, will confirm your preaching with signs and wonders.(But, make sure that you have all the Truth first ... look at the vagabond Jewish exorcists in Acts 19:11-17.) Yet, when was the last time that a Christian entered a Jewish synagogue and preached Yeshua Christ? Or did Paul sit down with the rabbis and eat cookies and tea and try to find out how much the two faiths had in common? Today’s Church is a watered-down version of the original Church. If we would get our minds off of fund raisers, social agendas and “performing a service,” and get them back on going out into a lost world and preaching the gospel -- we might see some of the power that was promised unto us by Yeshua Christ (“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father” John 14:12. Do you think Yeshua meant what He said, or not?). That’s the difference between how the first Christians behaved and how we behave, today. We should, as the first Church did, pray for all boldness to preach God’s Word and that God would confirm His Word with healings, signs and wonders in the name of Yeshua (Acts 4:29-31).

Amen
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#508894 Jan 26, 2014
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't believe there is that many Michael, world wide there are believers who simply follow Christ without any of the religious mumbo jumbo.
That is not what pierces the heart of man, Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Hello LTM
Updated information.

The pew research centre states 51.4% of Americans are protestant. 23.9% Roman catholic.

......162.9 million protestants. 74 million catholics.
Census beaurea states as of this morning the US population is 317,434,659

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#508895 Jan 26, 2014
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
June
I avoid crowds.
But honestly, I have had difficulties in accepting, and being accepted as a part of the RCC crowd....At the present it stands that way.
One is easily accepted if they share beliefs, its a bit hard when one is a stranger and pilgrim....
To the early Catholic church fathers, you would have had to hate the Jews, or be burned at the stake as a heretic..

You are not aligned to anything Catholic, as you are the GREAT pretender ... adrift in a world of your own.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#508896 Jan 26, 2014
74 million baptized roman catholics in the USA.
Approximately 1 in 4 american catholics attend mandatory Sunday mass weekly according to the US bishops council report. That means on any given Sunday 18.9 million catholics attend mandatory Sunday mass. 14700 Catholic Churches in america, the same number as 25 years ago. Approximately 1200 catholics average attendance at the the 3 or or 4 weekend masses at each church, 5,000 catholics in in each parish stay home.

50 million Americans today claim to be non religious. Most are former catholics/protestants.

I bring the most current news available.......and on time!

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#508897 Jan 26, 2014
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
June
I have no alternative. Jesus is perfect.
When you were an Atheist you had an alterative belief, so don't pretend that belief is not your choice ... because belief IS a choice. And you now choose to claim you are Catholic, when you are totally at odds with the beliefs of the church fathers.

You are very much a fraud by all accounts.

June VanDerMark wrote:

<quoted text>
According to your church fathers Jesus perceived the Jews as enemies and wanted the Jews slayed.
Do you agree with your church fathers that Jesus was PERFECT???
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#508898 Jan 26, 2014
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I have not desappeared Anthony. I have a husband, 2 cats, a dog, that need to be feed and a house to look after.
I have one kitty who doesn't walk anymore, I have to carry her everywhere. She's like us as we get old arthritis she needs care .
Besides we have said everything we have to say to each other, you believe a church is made of mortor and brick I believe the church is people .
In the Apostles’ day,“church” never meant a building. If you had walked up to Peter or Paul and said,“Where do you go to church?” They probably wouldn’t have understood what you meant. Peter might have answered,“What do you mean where do I go to Church? I am the Church!”
The Church was (and is) the people of the Body of Christ. Nowhere in the Bible was a building ever called a “church.” They never attended a building that they called “church.” They never built a building that they called “church.” Going to a building that’s called “church” on scheduled days, week in and week out, would be very foreign to the first Church. Sitting on a pew and following a routine service or ceremony never happened in the Bible.
I know that there’s been quite a holy twirl placed on that meaning. The church is the “called out,” the “separated from the evil world.” But never was the church meant to be so separated that we hide behind lovely buildings and comfort each other that we are “saved,”“sanctified” and “holier than thou.”(Isaiah 65:5)
But have you ever thought that the Church is the origin from where the message is “called out”(The point from where action proceeds -- and that action is to call!)? The Church is that catalyst from where the Gospel of Truth goes forth into the world. The Apostles and saints “ceased not to teach and preach Yeshua Christ ... in the temple and in every house”(Acts 5:42). And when the scripture says “temple,” it means the Jewish Temple. Not a “Christian Temple,” because such a thing did not exist in the Apostles’ day.
cont
Anthony is not interested in hearing about your pets, however I love animals. We are on dog number 5.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#508899 Jan 26, 2014
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
June
In a classical sense, you are right, I am not faithful to Roman Catholicism.
But if more RCs thought like me, then I would be a classic. I am old enough to be an antique already.(smiles)
Maybe you are starting to understand me ? That's a scary thought!
AHA ... So you admit that if other Catholics followed YOU, they would be WISE and LOVING and aligned to almost perfection in the sense of being saved from hell in a hereafter.

Yet by the same token, you claim that you have no desire to be the pope.

You are quite the pompous-assed character.

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