Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 675592 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#507512 Jan 20, 2014
Gods R Delusions but Mine wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there anyone else here who claims people are "lying" more than you?
Everyone is "lying through their teeth" except you.
According to the same Bible, everyone else is supported by Scripture too. Galatians 3:26 for example.
Your faith seems based on calling others names -- and picking and choosing which verse you want to believe are literal, while ignoring most others.
That's how a delusion works. You must numb your mind and ignore the obvious.
Ramen
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

To call these children the children of God is calling God the devil, a murderer, and that he cannot tell the truth..when he speaks...he is lying...

Bring ice and lots of ice tea....you will need it...

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#507513 Jan 20, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
If there was a schism about the Bishop of Rome having primacy, it wouldn't have come during Fabians office in 250AD. It would have come during Clements in 80 AD. Remember, the Church in Corinth appealed to the Bishop of Rome- Peters successor- to settle a dispute concerning wrongfully defrocked Priests. Clement wrote a letter to them and settled it. This was the first evidence, apart from Peters reign, that shows how the Bishop of Rome had the final say in matters throughout the universal Church. If you disagree, ask yourself:
A. Why was an eastern Church appealing to the Bishop of Rome when they had their own Bishops?
B. Why did the Bishop of Rome command them to re- install the Priests.?
C. Why did the Corinthians obey the Bishop of Rome.?
This is why 175 yrs later, Emperor Decius was quoted as saying, "I would far rather hear of a rival to my throne than another Bishop of Rome"
Then he beheaded Pope Fabian.
==========

CLEMENT OF ROMES LETTER
The letter sent in about the year 96 to the Church of Corinth

The letter refers only to the presbyters of Corinth, and makes no reference to the bishop of Corinth. Moreover, there is no mention of a bishop at Rome--the letter is sent as from the Church at Rome collectively, and Clement's name does not appear. From this, some have inferred that the office of bishop had not yet developed at either Rome or Corinth, and that in both congregations the office of presbyter was the highest office known
.
A probable alternate explanation, however, is that the troubles in Corinth had arisen when the bishop of that congregation had died, and the congregation had split into factions, none containing both a majority of the presbyters and a majority of the congregation.

The letter makes no apology for intervening in what might be thought an internal affair of the congregation at Corinth. On the contrary, the writer apologizes for the delay in commenting, as if an earlier intervention might have been expected.

From this, some have inferred that, even at this early date (96 AD or, some think, earlier), when the Apostle John was perhaps still alive, the authority and jurisdiction of the Roman congregation over every other congregation of the Christian Church was already universally conceded.

However, a perfectly reasonable alternative explanation is that the congregation at Corinth, torn by division, had agreed to settle their disputes by inviting another congregation, or the head of another congregation, to act as arbitrator.

This would be a reasonable thing to do, and the choice of Rome as that congregation was natural, partly because of the prestige of the city, and the prestige of one of the largest congregations in the Church, and because the Corinth of Clement's day had been built as a Roman colony, with a special dependence directly on the city of Rome (a civil relation that might affect the habits of thought of the Corinthians on matters ecclestiastical as well), but also because Rome was far enough away so that it could be assumed to be impartial and not affected by local personalities.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#507514 Jan 20, 2014
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
June
I don't quite get the meaning of your question.....
Back when you were an Atheist, you GOT the meanings. Now you choose to play dumb to your own previous words.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>

Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Greetings June
It is fear that makes the KNOW. Fear of death, and fear of hell, and fear of not making it to heaven.....Religion is based on fear....
Robert

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#507515 Jan 20, 2014
chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Christ built His church on Him dumb dumb. Christ is the Rock, the Foundation, the Cornerstone.
Humans are flawed, Christ is not.
Clay, check this out. I'm sure you have an explanation, you always do.
1 Peter 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:
* Why did Peter refer to himself as a fellow elder if in fact he has supremacy???
Thus, midpoint..Peter would look on the,Vatican..the throne ..t he ring kissing ...the riches,...
And be shocked that this,was,DONE IN HIS,NAME,..
Husker

Falls City, NE

#507516 Jan 20, 2014
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 387)
Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying,'Blessed art thou, This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty ...even denying the Lord." (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)
Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe.(Chrysostom, T. iii Hom).
Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church.(Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)
(Peter), the foundation of the Church, the Coryphaeus of the choir of the Apostles, the vehement lover of Christ ...he who ran throughout the whole world, who fished the whole world; this holy Coryphaeus of the blessed choir; the ardent disciple, who was entrusted with the keys of heaven, who received the spiritual revelation. Peter, the mouth of all Apostles, the head of that company, the ruler of the whole world.(De Eleemos, iii. 4; Hom. de decem mille tal. 3)
In those days Peter rose up in the midst of the disciples (Acts 15), both as being ardent, and as intrusted by Christ with the flock ...he first acts with authority in the matter, as having all put into his hands ; for to him Christ said,'And thou, being converted, confirm thy brethren.(Chrysostom, Hom. iii Act Apost. tom. ix.)
He passed over his fall, and appointed him first of the Apostles; wherefore He said:''Simon, Simon,' etc.(in Ps. cxxix. 2). God allowed him to fall, because He meant to make him ruler over the whole world, that, remembering his own fall, he might forgive those who should slip in the future. And that what I have said is no guess, listen to Christ Himself saying:'Simon, Simon, etc.'(Chrys, Hom. quod frequenter conveniendum sit 5, cf. Hom 73 in Joan 5).
And why, then, passing by the others, does He converse with Peter on these things?(John 21:15). He was the chosen one of the Apostles, and the mouth of the disciples, and the leader of the choir. On this account, Paul also went up on a time to see him rather than the others (Galatians 1:18). And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says,'If you love me, preside over the brethren ...and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. And if one should say,'How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,' this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world.(Chrysostom, In Joan. Hom. 1xxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii)
http://www.fisheaters.com/easternfathers.html
Thankyou for posting this!

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#507517 Jan 20, 2014
Go fishing wrote:
June,did you lose a daughter or son or anyone close to you? You sound like you are deeply hurting.
I'm old. I'm losing more people close to me all the time and yes loss hurts.

But your creator seems to enjoy emotional and physical suffering of not only human animals ... but all forms of life.

Religion is BUNK!
Husker

Falls City, NE

#507518 Jan 20, 2014
Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text> Shall I start copying and pasting some of your post to remind you of yourself? And those that have been deleted from Topix still maybe lingering in some safe place.Rose's doesn't post filth and doesn't post filth to me as you do ..Ihave no need to correct her.If you have to ask me what is gutter talk than that tells me that you are clueless about your behavior...
I get a kick out of you, entertainment wise. I find you are on this forum only because yur husband, your father figure is here. You know nothing about your own religion let alone anyone elses. I really find it hard to believe Topix deleted my posts for my language. Please tell me what words I used, I remember calling you a smart azz. I guess that's really dirty and filthy. Or is your conscience bothering you because you agreed with a poster that loved to post about pedo's and molesting? Serea, go and find a shrink and get some confidence in yourself. And by the way, I don't hate you.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#507519 Jan 20, 2014
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
But there,was,no POPE,..back then ..a,bishop of Rome,..as,is,on Fabians,grave,...
The Catholic kingdoms were at first divided and governed by bishops. There were no popes at the start of Catholicism. That is why, there was no pope Peter who was a Jew.

That was just a silly story made up to create the illusion that the first pope was a WISE Jew that left Judaism to become Catholic.

This was the first Catholic to coin the phrase pope as being a Father-figure, rather than a brother as were the other bishops to each other.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>

A History of Religious Ideas, by Mircea Eliade.

At the first ecumenical councils, only certain representatives of the “Pope” participated. That title was adopted by Siricius (384—99), who thus proclaimed himself the “father” and not the “brother” of the other bishops.
Husker

Falls City, NE

#507520 Jan 20, 2014
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
But there,was,no POPE,..back then ..a,bishop of Rome,..as,is,on Fabians,grave,...
Why appeal elsewhere,??? Maybe to find someone,impartial to local politics,..I have no idea.
I do not believe a,High Priest..Holy Father ..o the r than God,was,ever intended,.
Look what followed,the,schism..Rome,go t I not secular politics,more,...Kings,bowed,t o the,Pope,ans,VICE VERSA''...which led to ungodly behaviour and deaths,...And to the,Reformation ...
In o the r words,both Spiritually and particularly TH e y LOST POWER ....which is,corrupting ...And,THUS,EVENTUALLY ..your Church REFORMED into the CHURCH you now,worship in ..
Had,they stayed,CHURCHES,dedicated to Christ ...no Vatican..no primacy ...who knows,what would or WOULD,NOT HAVE happened,...maybe no Reformation would have been necessary ..
Give to Caesar ...what is,his..to God,...what is,God's..Not make,a,Caesar,within and over all the Churches,..
Sorry the,more history ..let a lone scripture, I read ..I really do not believe a Vatican ..Pope,..quasi temple,...ring kissing or throne,was,ever intended by Jesus,...And,as,I've said,many times,...St Peter from.all we,know,about him...would be, a appalled ...And certainly not welcome,any of it in his,name,..
Jesus,will provide his,throne,as,ONE,of the,rulers, of the,Tribes,of Israel..the,REAL one ..
However..God has,used,some,great men in your Church...as,HE,used th e,Reformers,...And any CHRISTIAN who tells,another soul the,good news,...or gives,m o net missionaries,...or to buy bibles,...
The,Father Calls,those,who are,meant for the SON ..he,left beg I nd,disciples,to spread the,word,
And,in my opinion o n..NOT to build an earthly denomination..with a,poor,sitting in a,throne chair getting his,ring kissed,..
I think Francis thinks,similarly ..we,shall see,...
The,Spirit uses,whom and,what He,uses,to call the sheep to their Shepherd ..from the humbled to the poorest ...in every medium..the,WORD is,NOW,HEARD,all over as,JESUS,required of us..
Rose, you really out done yourself

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#507521 Jan 20, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't mean to cast science as a religion, but Atheism.
Atheist often use science for their argument. I say science can't be used for that because it doesn't explain love or the spiritual component of humans. We believe God is Love. Whoever does not love does not know God. So how can science answer the existence of our God when it dismisses love altogether? We all need to look at how we "love" our own kids if we want to peer into the mind of God.
Do you love your kids? Can you explain in a science lab how you love your kids?? Love is a mystery and so is God.
Science can only go so far and its confined to the physical world.
Your right on there,Clay..atheism uses,science,..they have FAITH in THEORIES ..which change,every few,years,..

I hate,to laugh at adversity ...But really ..those guys,at the,NORTH POLE,to document the,MELTING Ice caps,...as,a,BOON TO THE GOD OF GLOBAL WARMING ...which affects,legislation ...That movie,they showed kids, in school.to CONVERT them ...sad seals..no ice

.stuck in the ice for days,....along with their rescue ship ...sorry but I think MAN saying he has,so much power and BEING shown up like that ..shows,

I they are a,RELIGION

2, WHO is,the,power And creator ..

Soon as,I found out no one got hurt I was,laughing ...bad me,...Lol
.
But yes it's,a,religion....they say it is,..with Churches,and ordained ministers,..

And now,they call one of th e or God's, climate change ..instead of global warming ...all hail..

Nonsense,...weather has,been cyclical for millennia'
And,will remain so until the tribulation...And end times,...

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#507522 Jan 20, 2014
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>==========
CLEMENT OF ROMES LETTER
The letter sent in about the year 96 to the Church of Corinth
The letter refers only to the presbyters of Corinth, and makes no reference to the bishop of Corinth. Moreover, there is no mention of a bishop at Rome--the letter is sent as from the Church at Rome collectively, and Clement's name does not appear. From this, some have inferred that the office of bishop had not yet developed at either Rome or Corinth, and that in both congregations the office of presbyter was the highest office known
.
A probable alternate explanation, however, is that the troubles in Corinth had arisen when the bishop of that congregation had died, and the congregation had split into factions, none containing both a majority of the presbyters and a majority of the congregation.
The letter makes no apology for intervening in what might be thought an internal affair of the congregation at Corinth. On the contrary, the writer apologizes for the delay in commenting, as if an earlier intervention might have been expected.
From this, some have inferred that, even at this early date (96 AD or, some think, earlier), when the Apostle John was perhaps still alive, the authority and jurisdiction of the Roman congregation over every other congregation of the Christian Church was already universally conceded.
However, a perfectly reasonable alternative explanation is that the congregation at Corinth, torn by division, had agreed to settle their disputes by inviting another congregation, or the head of another congregation, to act as arbitrator.
This would be a reasonable thing to do, and the choice of Rome as that congregation was natural, partly because of the prestige of the city, and the prestige of one of the largest congregations in the Church, and because the Corinth of Clement's day had been built as a Roman colony, with a special dependence directly on the city of Rome (a civil relation that might affect the habits of thought of the Corinthians on matters ecclestiastical as well), but also because Rome was far enough away so that it could be assumed to be impartial and not affected by local personalities.
Hello Love....how about some coffee...(smooch)

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#507523 Jan 20, 2014
Where are you!!!!!

Working for the Lord wrote:
I urge all that haven't yet become a Christian to go to the nearest Church of Christ and study the word with them and when you feel ready and you believe Jesus is the Son of God, you then are ready to be baptized and to live your life as a Christian with the hope of heaven your home for eternity.
Glad to help....

I urge all that haven't yet become a Christian to go to the nearest church that Christ built and study the word with them and when you feel ready and you believe Jesus is the Son of God, you then are ready to be baptized and to live your life as a Christian with the hope of heaven your home for eternity.
----------

You got one hing right!!! Quote: believe Jesus is the Son of God,

The church (singular) Christ built...per Scripture is: a calling out, i.e.(concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):--assembly,

Tell us whom built these churches (plural)..

Ac 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Ac 15:41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.
Ac 16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
Ac 19:37 For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.
Ro 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
Ro 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
1Co 7:17 ¶ But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.{confusion: Gr. tumult, or, unquietness}
1Co 14:34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 16:1 ¶ Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:19 ¶ The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
2Co 8:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2Co 8:18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches;
2Co 8:19 And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:{grace: or, gift}
2Co 8:23 Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.
2Co 8:24 Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.
2Co 11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 12:13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.
Ga 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
Ga 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
Liam

Detroit, MI

#507524 Jan 20, 2014
Gods R Delusions but Mine wrote:
<quoted text>
And the earth is 6000 years old I suppose.
"So how can science answer the existence of our God when it dismisses love altogether?"
Another blatant untruth.
http://www.youramazingbrain.org/lovesex/scien...
Christians don't believe the earth is 6,000 yrs old. well, the new fundamental born agains do. But most Christians don't subscribe to that sorta nonsense. Anytime you incorporate ignorance as part of your faith, your starting off on the wrong foot. The Bible is the word of God, but it wasn't dictated word for word by the creator. Its still human language and culture entwined with divine insights. The Bible is a collection of our sacred scriptures. Some are poems, letters, epistles, memoirs, and prophetic books. Jesus never gave us a list of these books, they developed thru the tradition of the already established Church.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#507525 Jan 20, 2014
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
Re 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Re 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Re 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Re 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Re 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Re 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Re 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Re 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
(KJV)

Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#507526 Jan 20, 2014
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>==========
CLEMENT OF ROMES LETTER
The letter sent in about the year 96 to the Church of Corinth
The letter refers only to the presbyters of Corinth, and makes no reference to the bishop of Corinth. Moreover, there is no mention of a bishop at Rome--the letter is sent as from the Church at Rome collectively, and Clement's name does not appear. From this, some have inferred that the office of bishop had not yet developed at either Rome or Corinth, and that in both congregations the office of presbyter was the highest office known
.
A probable alternate explanation, however, is that the troubles in Corinth had arisen when the bishop of that congregation had died, and the congregation had split into factions, none containing both a majority of the presbyters and a majority of the congregation.
The letter makes no apology for intervening in what might be thought an internal affair of the congregation at Corinth. On the contrary, the writer apologizes for the delay in commenting, as if an earlier intervention might have been expected.
From this, some have inferred that, even at this early date (96 AD or, some think, earlier), when the Apostle John was perhaps still alive, the authority and jurisdiction of the Roman congregation over every other congregation of the Christian Church was already universally conceded.
However, a perfectly reasonable alternative explanation is that the congregation at Corinth, torn by division, had agreed to settle their disputes by inviting another congregation, or the head of another congregation, to act as arbitrator.
This would be a reasonable thing to do, and the choice of Rome as that congregation was natural, partly because of the prestige of the city, and the prestige of one of the largest congregations in the Church, and because the Corinth of Clement's day had been built as a Roman colony, with a special dependence directly on the city of Rome (a civil relation that might affect the habits of thought of the Corinthians on matters ecclestiastical as well), but also because Rome was far enough away so that it could be assumed to be impartial and not affected by local personalities.
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bio/290....

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#507527 Jan 20, 2014
Husker wrote:
<quoted text> Thankyou for posting this!
Here is John Chrysostom with his golden Catholic-tongue. claiming that the Jews were Jesus' enemies that Jesus wanted to be slayed.

Do you believe that John Chrysostom told the truth?
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>

Although such beasts are unfit for work, they are fit for killing. And this is what happened to the Jews: while they were making themselves unfit for work, they grew fit for slaughter. This is why Christ said: "But as for these my enemies, who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and slay them".

John Chrysostom

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#507528 Jan 20, 2014
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>==========
CLEMENT OF ROMES LETTER
The letter sent in about the year 96 to the Church of Corinth
The letter refers only to the presbyters of Corinth, and makes no reference to the bishop of Corinth. Moreover, there is no mention of a bishop at Rome--the letter is sent as from the Church at Rome collectively, and Clement's name does not appear. From this, some have inferred that the office of bishop had not yet developed at either Rome or Corinth, and that in both congregations the office of presbyter was the highest office known
.
A probable alternate explanation, however, is that the troubles in Corinth had arisen when the bishop of that congregation had died, and the congregation had split into factions, none containing both a majority of the presbyters and a majority of the congregation.
The letter makes no apology for intervening in what might be thought an internal affair of the congregation at Corinth. On the contrary, the writer apologizes for the delay in commenting, as if an earlier intervention might have been expected.
From this, some have inferred that, even at this early date (96 AD or, some think, earlier), when the Apostle John was perhaps still alive, the authority and jurisdiction of the Roman congregation over every other congregation of the Christian Church was already universally conceded.
However, a perfectly reasonable alternative explanation is that the congregation at Corinth, torn by division, had agreed to settle their disputes by inviting another congregation, or the head of another congregation, to act as arbitrator.
This would be a reasonable thing to do, and the choice of Rome as that congregation was natural, partly because of the prestige of the city, and the prestige of one of the largest congregations in the Church, and because the Corinth of Clement's day had been built as a Roman colony, with a special dependence directly on the city of Rome (a civil relation that might affect the habits of thought of the Corinthians on matters ecclestiastical as well), but also because Rome was far enough away so that it could be assumed to be impartial and not affected by local personalities.
And,I only gave a,supposition on the reason....out of the,hands,of LOCAL politics,...

No pope,...

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#507529 Jan 20, 2014
Many preachers are certain that Jesus was and is a ravenous serial killer, who wanted/wants not only Jews, but homosexuals and whoever else gets in their way ... put to death.

And then they have the audacity to preach that the religion itself is based on the teaching of LOVE.

YUCK!

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#507530 Jan 20, 2014
Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text> Shall I start copying and pasting some of your post to remind you of yourself? And those that have been deleted from Topix still maybe lingering in some safe place.Rose's doesn't post filth and doesn't post filth to me as you do ..Ihave no need to correct her.If you have to ask me what is gutter talk than that tells me that you are clueless about your behavior...
Sigh ...You mean. TOPIX deletes,nasty posts???..hmmm..
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#507531 Jan 20, 2014
From Anglican scholar J.N.D. Kelly The Oxford Dictionary of Popes (1986) under Peter, St, Apostle (page 5-6)

"The papacy, through successive popes and councils, has always traced its origins and title-deeds to the unique commission reported to have been given by Jesus Christ to Peter, the chief of his Apostles, later to be martyred when organizing the earliest group of Christians at Rome....According to Matt 16:13-20, when Jesus asked the disciples whom they took him to be, Simon answered for them all that he was the Messiah, the Son of the living God; in reply Jesus pronounced him blessed because of this inspired insight, bestowed on him the Aramaic name Cephas (='rock'), rendered Peter in Greek, and declared that he would build his indestructible church on 'this rock', and would give him 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven' and the powers of 'binding and loosing'....

"[In the first half of Acts]...Peter was the undisputed leader of the youthful church. It was he who presided over the choice of a successor to Judas (1:15-26), who explained to the crowd the meaning of Pentecost (2:14-40), who healed the lame beggar at the Temple (3:1-10), who pronounced sentence on Ananias and Sapphira (5:1-11), and who opened the church to Gentiles by having Cornelius baptized without undergoing circumcision (10:9-48). He was to the fore in preaching, defending the new movement, working miracles of healing, and visiting newly established Christian communities...

"It seems certain that Peter spent his closing years in Rome. Although the NT appears silent about such a stay, it is supported by 1 Peter 5:13, where 'Babylon' is a code-name for Rome, and by the strong case for linking the Gospel of Mark, who as Peter's companion (1 Pet 5:13) is said to have derived its substance from him, with Rome. To early writers like Clement of Rome (c. 95), Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107), and Irenaeus (c. 180) it was common knowledge that he worked and died in Rome."

Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Eerdmans, 1910)--

"Rome was the battle-field of orthodoxy and heresy, and a resort of all sects and parties. It attracted from every direction what was true and false in philosophy and religion. Ignatius rejoiced in the prospect of suffering for Christ in the centre of the world; Polycarp repaired hither to settle with Anicetus the paschal controversy; Justin Martyr presented there his defense of Christianity to the emperors, and laid down for it his life; Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Cyprian conceded to that church a position of singular pre-eminence. Rome was equally sought as a commanding position by heretics and theosophic jugglers, as Simon Magus, Valentine, Marcion, Cerdo, and a host of others. No wonder, then, that the bishops of Rome at an early date were looked upon as metropolitan pastors, and spoke and acted accordingly with an air of authority which reached far beyond their immediate diocese." (Schaff, volume 2, page 157)

On St. Clement of Rome (c. 96 AD), reckoned as the fourth Pope from St. Peter, Schaff states --

"...it can hardly be denied that the document [Clement to the Corinthians] reveals the sense of a certain superiority over all ordinary congregations. The Roman church here, without being asked (as far as appears), gives advice, with superior administrative wisdom, to an important church in the East, dispatches messengers to her, and exhorts her to order and unity in a tone of calm dignity and authority, as the organ of God and the Holy Spirit. This is all the more surprising if St. John, as is probable, was then still living in Ephesus, which was nearer to Corinth than Rome." (Schaff, volume 2, page 158)

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/PeterRockK...

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