Forgive me for being a bit confused Dan, but are you saying baptism remits sin and regenerates only if it's preceded by repentence and acceptance of Christ by a cognitive person? And is there something other than symbolism in the action of the water and the invocation of the Blessed Trinity?<quoted text>A symbolic traditional gesture of obedience eventually is a cheap shot at what baptism really is Anthony. Now your tradition claims that infant baptism regenerates and removes sin.Although I understand that in the human reasoning of things,and I can understand the prot concept as you stated which eventually boils down to tradition and rote practice as well.All human concepts of what was instituted by our Lord.
Baptism represents Christ's burial,and resurrection.And in the light of that is true baptism.The soul that repents first receives cleansing from the very foot of the Cross,and the shed Blood of our Lord Jesus,Baptism is the burial of that believer with Christ,and when he or she comes out of the Water of regeneration,they are resurrected unto the New Life in Christ.
That is Baptism,it is Christ,Christ and more of Him,which includes the limitless sphere of His changing grace toward us as believers who come to Him by faith,Repent of our sins,and proceed into the waters of Baptism to fulfill what Christ has done in us.
Human reasoning,and cheap practices do not explain the eternal significance of Baptism,Paul did,and we do every time one repents and is baptized for the remission of sins.
You can say that our Communion is some symbolic practice that completely gives us nothing at all,because you believe in Transubstantiation.
The truth is,The very memorial of His Holy and very significant D E A T H supersedes any human reasoning as to what is done to practice Holy Communion.Some of the most profound and very spiritual awakenings in the non-Catholic communities have been at the Communion Table.It is about what Christ suffered and died,and the spiritual awareness of that fact is limitless in comparison to our very limited framework of reference on any subject for that matter.Christ can of the most simple of elements awaken in His followers the deepest of spiritual essence. Our communion services could be rote,and so can yours,but when the Spirit of the LORD is present,He gives life to anything that He chooses to give life to.The dry bones in Ezekiel were given life by the LORD,and look what happened,He raised an army.
Anthony it is not about our C h u r c h practice,or even about whether we so believe it is doctrine and truth,it is about Him WHO gives to us undeserving sinners who have entered into the GATE of Him who purchased us with His own Blood. He makes the difference,and as you have heard more recently an expression well said,"It is not about us,it is about Him." Cheap communion is about us,but Holy Communion is about Him.
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#479736 Oct 2, 2013
#479737 Oct 2, 2013
You haven't a clue what I'm saying.
but I knew you wouldn't let me down with this: It wasn't taught in Christendom for 1800 yrs.
This is your go to when you have said something dumb.
#479738 Oct 2, 2013
Just wondering oh great Pharisee of Pharisees, was that a three post 6000 word FLOOD of Spam like you chastised me for???
Best tell you now that is Sarcasm, forgot about your inability to pick up on the Idioms and meanings of language.
#479739 Oct 2, 2013
By what authority do you decide a doctrine is unbiblical? What do you say to another protestant who says he's led by scripture and the Holy Spirit to declare your doctrine unbiblical?
#479740 Oct 2, 2013
We love you Regina. Even if you do lie...lol
The one who cusses (you) sticks up for another who cusses. How sweet.
#479741 Oct 2, 2013
Jesus Christ didn't set up a canon of scripture, He set up a Church. This Church later determined a list of Books that they considered inspired.
Now, unless you were responsible for gathering, editing, compiling and labeling these Books; and your monks hand copied them so Churches throughout Christendom could read it aloud at Holy Mass; unless you published these Books in 1452, and brought the 'family Bible' to the world.... unless you did all this, the Books do not belong to you for interpretations of the Ministry of Jesus Christ. I don't believe you actually believe, that Jesus chose this method to bring truth the world. There are allot of logical problems with the fundie scenario on how Jesus distributed truth to us.
#479743 Oct 2, 2013
You spammed me with pages of Webster's opinions when, if you knew me, would know that I always read links people provide, in fact, I've read lots of stuff written by Webster. On the other hand, I will, occasionally, paste an article here for people who ask a question, but refuse to examine the link I provide. Big difference.
#479744 Oct 2, 2013
Good, I'm glad you recognized yourself in my post! Your anger is the first step toward recovery. Unfortunately, you've not gotten past it. Get help, it's available for you. In the meantime, we're making allowances for you as you continue in your abuse. But it won't last forever, so do make more of an effort.
“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”
Since: Jun 10
"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"
#479745 Oct 2, 2013
Again---I am saying that the "written WORD of God, as we know it (in the bible today, NEVER EXISTED until the Early Church Fathers, gave us the bible in 383,392, and 397AD. When Jesus Christ initiated HIS 1st Church at Antioch
YOU DON'T KNOW GOD'S WORD...BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW THE ONE WHO WROTE IT..
YOUR EARLY CHURCH FATHERS ...DO NOT HAVE PRECEDENCE OVER
HE IS THE WORD OF THE FATHER MADE FLESH...THE LIVING WORD..
Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
YOU CLAIM THAT YOU Fathers invented Jesus,,,
Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
THE WORD OF YOU FATHERS ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE WORD'S OF JESUS...
THEY HAVE NO LIFE IN THEM...THEY ARE DEATH ,,,NOT LIFE...
YOUR (so called holy fathers ) have nothing to do with CHRISTIANITY...
THEY DID NOT SHED ONE DROP OF BLOOD FOR THE SALVATION OF ANY ONE...
THEY ARE CORRUPTIBLE MEN SUCH AS YOUR SELF..
THEIR OPINIONS ARE MOOT.
Jesus is the author and finisher of the CHRISTIAN FAITH...
Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
YOUR (so called) holy fathers teach that there is a purgatory after death...which is a blatant contradiction of the words of JESUS...
There aint no such place..
after death there is no second chance..
SO YOU BETTER GET IT RIGHT NOW...
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust,
let him be unjust still: and
he which is filthy,
let him be filthy still: and
he that is righteous,
let him be righteous still: and
he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
YOU LOVE YOUR LIES AND SWEAR TO THEM ..
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
YOU BEST PAY ATTENTIONS TO WHAT JESUS SAID..
AND FORSAKE YOUR LIES...
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
“GOD SO LOVED US”
Since: Aug 08
He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ
#479746 Oct 2, 2013
Jesus,said ..Peer Said
Believe and be baptized
Repent (because you believe ) and Be baptized
I believe we ate washed clean by the BLOOD of our Saviour
Baptism is the sign He gave us,to show we have died to sin..live in Christ ...
We accept he free,gift of faith ...when are baptized ..
.in obedience .
If s,person has,an accident ..has been on the fence ..bring called by the Spirit . Can he be saved at the last ..like the field workers,.
We are,told yes ..no baptism ..
Now,in thinking on this .
If one is baptized as a,baby ..is taught his is sufficient
Comes to rue FAITH in your Saviuor ..at some point ..
They are,BORN of the SPIRIT ..I believe they will be saved .
The Spirit comes to us WHERE WE ARE,...when He chooses ..how,He chooses ..And we,are judged by what we know .
If Our hearts,..And souls and Spirits are with Him.in Union... it's His judge ..
#479747 Oct 2, 2013
well, it wasn't Chuck. That should be a huge red flag to you. This means your opinion on Baptism came from men like you, who picked up the Bible and formed their own Christianity.
Next, I'll remind you that there are two to three new protestant 'churches' that form every week. Each one claiming to be led to Biblical truth by the Holy Spirit.
Now I'll remind you how ridiculous it is to believe Jesus Christ wills for truth to be articulated to humanity using your method.
#479748 Oct 2, 2013
I can make an allowance with you Regina. How you ever cussed on this forum? Whether it was an actually word or just the initials of a cuss word?
Here is your chance and then we can bury it.
#479749 Oct 2, 2013
As a religion...yes, it is the largest. As for relationship....no relationship. Mary reigns supreme. Statue after statue after statue of "your" beloved mother Mary. She is exalted above all things. How sad and lost.
#479750 Oct 2, 2013
So you believe it's a symbolic gesture, and don't believe it actually does anything.
Since: Dec 11
#479751 Oct 2, 2013
Did I fall down the Rabbit Hole?
I SAID I use Christ for guidance. You criticized this and said you use the Word.
YOU SAID #479705
You are welcome to follow your meology...I will follow the Word of God:
CHRISTIANS DO NOT SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF CHRIST...no need...we rely on, accept, and live by His promise:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Evidently you don't live by His Word....
ANSWERING PAD I SAID:
SCRIPTURES always come first- Over tradition, Over any other source
Therefore who helps us in understanding Holy Scripture and who guides us? First the Holy Spirit and secondly Tradition and the Holy Fathers over the many centuries which have helped with the interpretations of the Bible.
The Fathers can err.
The only Fathers' writings that are accepted are those backed by Scripture. The Fathers quote very very extensively from Scripture to back their statements.
"You gave Christ His walking papers????!!!!! What happened????"
Since: Jun 10
#479752 Oct 2, 2013
"Therefore who helps us in understanding Holy Scripture and who guides us? First the Holy Spirit and secondly Tradition and the Holy Fathers over the many centuries which have helped with the interpretations of the Bible."
You gave Christ His walking papers????!!!!! What happened????
“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”
Since: Jun 10
"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"
#479753 Oct 2, 2013
Forgive me for being a bit confused Dan, but are you saying baptism remits sin and regenerates only if it's preceded by repentence and acceptance of Christ by a cognitive person? And is there something other than symbolism in the action of the water and the invocation of the Blessed Trinity?
Every sensible parent bathes (baptizes) their children...regardless of their religious beliefs. It does not make the child a 'Christian'.(Even atheists do this 'act of cleansing'.)
#479754 Oct 2, 2013
I understand you have no defense for the RCC, your sect being the one true deposit of faith with an unbroken Apostolic line is one big fat lie.
RCC history tells us so with out doubt.
YOU keep going in circles and you keep refusing to acknowledge the emperor has no clothes.
Your post is a diversion and nothing more, a way for you to try and change the subject.
I don't play games.
#479755 Oct 2, 2013
Not so fast. What game is this you play? You've been continually foul-mouthed and abusive to me and every other Catholic on this board. You've also regularly given a pass to and condoned the abuse of Catholics by others. To your detriment, you've taken lessons from your mentor, so your question is dishonest. An apology from you will certainly bury it.
#479756 Oct 2, 2013
Oh pharisee of Pharisees I see you have rules for everybody else that don't apply to you and then one rule for yourself, I can do what ever I want.
You'd make a good Pope your hypocrisy is top quality..
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