Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 692052 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#478913 Sep 28, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
You can post all the quotes you wish of early church fathers, but if you are fair and honest as the article I posted for you demonstrates when they use the word tradition, they mean the teachings from Scripture. In Context Traditions simply means teachings and all early Church fathers based their teachings on scripture as was their tradition.
If not all the early church fathers have contradicted themselves and should be ignored.
What you and Roman Catholics do is bring a 1000 year old definition of Tradition to their writings and never bother to try and understand what they meant when they used the word Tradition, remember the original word is not English. YOU need to actually read the book or at the very least the chapter you are cherry picking the sentence from if you wish to understand what the word meant to the author not what you mean by the word and then read your 2000 year old definition into the word and not use the 1st century meaning of the word. CONTEXT rules.
If we wish to be real as you write then if we are to say the Bible does not teach sola scriptoria and thus not believe it is doctrine then we must say the same for the Trinity, original sin, etc.
But just like you can state the Bible teaches the Trinity it teaches sola scriptoria.
Lets really be REAL bro the Apostles, my Lord Jesus never use anything but scripture to make an argument for doctrine and practice never once do the use what you call tradition.
Neither do the early church Fathers as I have demonstrated to you as you can't refute. You just say you can never putting up anything in context to prove your assertions.
now that really would be LOL and cute if your salvation and eternal destiny was not hung in the balance.
From one of the sites I linked (wherein Webster gets destroyed) relating to the doctrinal mess protestantism is in;

"If any Protestant apologist would like to answer this challenge, then please tell me, the infallible doctrinal content of Holy Scripture, according to Protestantism, on (1) Baptism,(2) Eucharist,(3) the sacraments or "ordinances" in general,(4) Church government,(5) church services or how to conduct Liturgy,(6) salvation,(7) predestination and free will,(8) any number of moral issues: divorce, re-marriage, contraception, abortion, etc. Since there is great disagreement among "official" Protestant statements of faith, one cannot possibly know what is the official "Protestant position" (or from Holy Scripture the infallible "doctrinal content") on any of these issues."
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#478914 Sep 28, 2013
Gods R Delusions wrote:
<quoted text>
Oops! Where did Pope Leo X get the money to rebuild St Peters? Umm?
I guess Jesus just dropped bags of money from the shy, right?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Pope Leo like anyone else is not perfect but he NEVER sold or authorized the selling of Indulgences.
What the Pope authorized was the Preaching of an Indulgence all across Europe,
with all the usual attached conditions (genuine repentance, contrition, prayer for the Church and the intentions of the successor of Peter, rejection of attachment to sin),
for those who would make a charitable donation of any amount, for the rebuilding
of the decrepit St. Peter's Basilica.

A popular ignormaous myth is it was selling salvation of which they have nothing to do with at all.

Yes there were unscrpulous who abused it. If we believe Luther remarks paraphrased like."
As soon as a coin in the coffer rings, a Soul
from Purgatory SPRINGS!!" These types of sarcastic caricature of what those men said may be true, but he was known for his extreme sarcasm and harshness. Yes they were abused, but no they were not what many think and say they are and Luther while the best known for bringing abuses up was not the only one. In fact Tretzel was much maligned later and honest Protestant scholars have written on the many fairy tales and legends. Even Luther himself wrote to Tretzel offering consolation fo the malignement of him by his followers.

But Leo NEVER sold nor did he authorize anyone to sell indulgences. You can't just give a certain amount of money and actually receive an indulgence.
It doesn't, and has NEVER, worked that way, nor does it have anything at all to do with buying your way into heaven , a second chance or any other rubbish that is so often seen.

And by the way the Cathedral wasnt just built by funds raised with your flawed accusation. My statement was that the church never approved of selling of indulgences. It didnt. Furthermore, any offering of an indlulgence that is attached to money was profhibited at Trent to avoid any further abuse or accusation, but mythical legends live on.. Giving Alms to the poor or worthy cause is a good thing as it says in the bible. It is unfortunate that some men abused it with corruptness and perhaps even withholding donations for themselves. No Charity frauds right? Ananias and Saphirra didnt lie to Peter about giving everything did they? They sure did. A pious act and men who abuse it are different. However those who distort the facts of a belief to malign the church is a malicious act of hate that is arguably even worse then what some corrupt men did. In essence it speaks volumes about you.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#478915 Sep 28, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
This verse says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the Bible being THE ONE AND ONLY SOURCE that God chose to transmit HIS divine, infallible and inspired Word. It ONLY says that the scriptures are inspired!!! This is precisely why Sola Scriptura, bible only or Sola Ecclesia was NEVER believed by ANYONE until the 17th century. It is a "man-made" post reformation (invented myth)) that has "no basis" on ANY biblical or historical truth to it!! For the 1st 1700 years of the Catholic Christian Church (the word of God alone) or Sola Verbum Dei is the (the word of God) that comes to us from Christ and the Apostles through BOTH the written AND the oral tradition (unwritten) 2 Thess 2:15, which has been entrrusted to the Church that Jesus Christ HIMSELF builds upon the rock of Peter (Matt 16:13-21 and I Tim 3:15. The ineffable wisdom of God is made known through HIS CHURCH (Eph. 3:9-10
Good effort....but no cigar....

This is what I posted...from Scripture..
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

This is the question I ask...the one you avoided answering...because it reveals the Truth...Quote: Since the man of God is "thoroughly furnished" by all scripture, inspired of God, unto good works....what else is necessary????!!!! How can he be more "thoroughly furnished"????!!!!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#478916 Sep 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Concerned, for every paragraph you provide where an early Church father speaks of scripture, i can give you ten more where they speak of the Church and tradition. You only fool you and other vulnerable posters by implying these men went by the Bible alone.
There is still one major problem that the fundie fanatics face: If the Lord left us with a set of Books to figure out His Ministry, who's interpretations are infallible? Remember, we are not stupid, so don't pretend the Holy Spirit is guiding all ya to Biblical truth and we Catholics "aren't born again' to see it your way. lol
I mean, that's cute and all, but lets keep it real here. The Lord never taught sola scripture and neither did His Apostles. If that were the case, why did only a few of the Disciples document in writing?
I think you are nothing but a lying bigot, not a Christan scholar.
From Scripture:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

This is the question I ask...the one you have avoided answering from the get-go...because it reveals the Truth...

Quote: Since the man of God is "thoroughly furnished" by all scripture, inspired of God, unto good works....what else is necessary????!!!! How can he be more "thoroughly furnished"????!!!!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#478917 Sep 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe my 11 yr old autistic child could teach you that the Earth is millions of yrs old.(seriously, the kid is smart when it comes to science). You throw out all credibility when you set aside reason, logic and scientific fact, while holding on to the invention called 'Sola Scripture". Scientific fact proves that you guys are approaching the Bible wrong.
The message the authors of the Bible were conveying came directly from God. But they still used language and culture from their own time period and God certainly didn't whisper every little grammar and punctuation mark in their ear.
Concerned did not invent sola scripture...The Holy Spirit established it as so..

From Scripture:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

This is the question I ask...the one you have avoided answering from the get-go...because it reveals the Truth...

Quote: Since the man of God is "thoroughly furnished" by all scripture, inspired of God, unto good works....what else is necessary????!!!! How can he be more "thoroughly furnished"????!!!!

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#478918 Sep 28, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
"Sounds anti protestant y church doesnt have a Judas or is sinless then you would be wrong. It was when he took ihurch and it never approved selling them. HOwever, I doubt very much you know what an indulgence entails, the history, or the biblical basis, but its convenient to blast at something you are know very little about other than perhaps a distorted view offered by your comrades.
He also REALIZED WHILE DOING A GRAVE PENANCE ..That no person can make up for sin ..how much for what. "The Apostles were not aware that no penance was necessary or that ongoing repentance with sincerity or nothing but faith alone was necessary. He added the wor
You cannot make kings,and allow them to torture people and NEVER EXCOMMUNICATE THEM..The church did not make Kings. And the US today tortures people and polls showed that most Protestants were in favor of torture and give it a rest you all love the Muslims. You dont know anything about the inquistions, to whome they applied, how it was applied. Why and what the role of the church was so give that a rest and dont pretend that Protestants werent burning witches far more than any inquisition by the way including in the U.S.her than furthering attacks against the church.
From another post there have always been loons ..it seriously mental.people who use God to explain evil.. Too incoherent to understand.
Ask the FATHER IN HIS NAME .....how can you be wrong. I think many aksed and did their will e Apostles made mistakes too, but you believe their writings are Gospel. However I know that you do not the role of the Papacy in h is why this thread repeats things that were covered in detail in the past.
At you actually saying the Inquisition was,from God because of Joshua,..

Jesus,said spread HIS word ...if the reject ..dust off your feet and move on

Not torture folks,to say THRY love Him. Or take their property if they are,Jews.

Wow, now you shocked me

I said about Prayer to ask in His,name for healing ..for peace ..IS,NOT WRONG ..we cannot force Him to answer yes

I HAVR to say the more you post he less,I think your Church is,anything
Like the,Apostles,..OR.

YOU FOLKS,HSVE your Church wrong ..especially that Inquistion statement ..

I'm trying o say Of used all of us

If one soul was,saved through a seed planted EITH the help of s NON CATHOLIC being used by the HOLY Spirit ..God's will was done .
WITHOUT YOUR CHURCH

THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOUR CHURCH BAD or wrong ..You honestly think.GOD DOES,NOT REACH WHO HE CALL A ..WHEN HE CALLS THRM unless it's,Church originated ..GOD IS HELPLESS OUTSIDE A CHURCH ????

I hate to break his,to you but we,don't worship LUTHER ..or dead preachers .

Even live one's, I may listen to..if they speak sound doctrine ..But I don't worship or pray to them..
JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS NOT CATHOLIC

OR TELLS, ABOUT HISTORU ..DOES NOT MAKE IT ANTI CATHOLIC..

You are the world very differently than I do
..I believe many CATHOLUCS,are born again believers,

It's what a in your heart ..NOT THE PEW YOU SIT IN..oh and your other apology on the Inquisition. About measures,right or wrong ..used to get inflation from terrorists,

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

First it's not in God's name torturing people ..burning them...to make Hen confess,Jesus as,Lord ..

SECOND ..THE PROPLE BEING TORTURED were,Jews,and non Catholic..And Muslim eh o did not go with JESUS,but they were innocent

And the POPE SURE DID HAVE POWER OVER KINGS .

HE EXCOMMUNICATED HENRY but not the Inquistion Monarchs???

He helped engineer who did and did not take the throne ..Medford in Marriages,fir politics,and alliances ..

So whether the,HOLY Office purged or the kings,BOTH WERE WRONG

AND ILL EAGER THAT IS NO WHERE IN APOSTOLIC TRADITION.

And at least John Paul was sorry for any Church involvement ..God bless the,man..he tried ..

,

Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#478919 Sep 28, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
From Scripture:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
This is the question I ask...the one you have avoided answering from the get-go...because it reveals the Truth...
Quote: Since the man of God is "thoroughly furnished" by all scripture, inspired of God, unto good works....what else is necessary????!!!! How can he be more "thoroughly furnished"????!!!!
2 Tim. 3:14 - Protestants usually use 2 Tim. 3:16-17 to prove that the Bible is the sole authority of God's word. But examining these texts disproves their claim. Here, Paul appeals to apostolic tradition right before the Protestants' often quoted verse 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Thus, there is an appeal to tradition before there is an appeal to the Scriptures, and Protestants generally ignore this fact.

2 Tim. 3:15 - Paul then appeals to the sacred writings of Scripture referring to the Old Testament Scriptures with which Timothy was raised (not the New Testament which was not even compiled at the time of Paul's teaching). This verse also proves that one can come to faith in Jesus Christ without the New Testament.

2 Tim. 3:16 - this verse says that Scripture is "profitable" for every good work, but not exclusive. The word "profitable" is "ophelimos" in Greek. "Ophelimos" only means useful, which underscores that Scripture is not mandatory or exclusive. Protestants unbiblically argue that profitable means exclusive.

2 Tim. 3:16 - further, the verse "all Scripture" uses the words "pasa graphe" which actually means every (not all) Scripture. This means every passage of Scripture is useful. Thus, the erroneous Protestant reading of "pasa graphe" would mean every single passage of Scripture is exclusive. This would mean Christians could not only use "sola Matthew," or "sola Mark," but could rely on one single verse from a Gospel as the exclusive authority of God's word. This, of course, is not true and even Protestants would agree. Also, "pasa graphe" cannot mean "all of Scripture" because there was no New Testament canon to which Paul could have been referring, unless Protestants argue that the New Testament is not being included by Paul.

2 Tim. 3:16 - also, these inspired Old Testament Scriptures Paul is referring to included the deuterocanonical books which the Protestants removed from the Bible 1,500 years later.

2 Tim. 3:17 - Paul's reference to the "man of God" who may be complete refers to a clergyman, not a layman. It is an instruction to a bishop of the Church. So, although Protestants use it to prove their case, the passage is not even relevant to most of the faithful.

2 Tim. 3:17 - further, Paul's use of the word "complete" for every good work is "artios" which simply means the clergy is "suitable" or "fit." Also, artios does not describe the Scriptures, it describes the clergyman. So, Protestants cannot use this verse to argue the Scriptures are complete.

2 Tim. 3:16-17 - Finally, if these verses really mean that Paul was teaching sola Scriptura to the early Church, then why in 1 Thess. 2:13 does Paul teach that he is giving Revelation from God orally? Either Paul is contradicting his own teaching on sola Scriptura, or Paul was not teaching sola Scriptura in 2 Tim. 3:16-17. This is a critical point which Protestants cannot reconcile with their sola Scriptura position.

http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone....

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#478920 Sep 28, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
"Sounds anti protestant y church doesnt have a Judas or is sinless then you would be wrong. It was when he took ihurch and it never approved selling them. HOwever, I doubt very much you know what an indulgence entails, the history, or the biblical basis, but its convenient to blast at something you are know very little about other than perhaps a distorted view offered by your comrades.
He also REALIZED WHILE DOING A GRAVE PENANCE ..That no person can make up for sin ..how much for what. "The Apostles were not aware that no penance was necessary or that ongoing repentance with sincerity or nothing but faith alone was necessary. He added the wor
You cannot make kings,and allow them to torture people and NEVER EXCOMMUNICATE THEM..The church did not make Kings. And the US today tortures people and polls showed that most Protestants were in favor of torture and give it a rest you all love the Muslims. You dont know anything about the inquistions, to whome they applied, how it was applied. Why and what the role of the church was so give that a rest and dont pretend that Protestants werent burning witches far more than any inquisition by the way including in the U.S.her than furthering attacks against the church.
From another post there have always been loons ..it seriously mental.people who use God to explain evil.. Too incoherent to understand.
Ask the FATHER IN HIS NAME .....how can you be wrong. I think many aksed and did their will e Apostles made mistakes too, but you believe their writings are Gospel. However I know that you do not the role of the Papacy in h is why this thread repeats things that were covered in detail in the past.
And here I wasn't going to mention your Church today

But you really shocked me

At you actually saying the Inquisition was,from God because of Joshua,..

Jesus,said spread HIS word ...if the reject ..dust off your feet and move on

Not torture folks,to say THEY love Him. Or take their property if they are,Jews.

I said about Prayer to ask in His,name for healing ..for peace ..IS,NOT WRONG ..we cannot force Him to answer yes

I HAVE to say the more you post theh less,I think your Church is,anything
Like the,Apostles,..OR.

YOU FOLKS,HAVE your Church wrong ..especially that Inquistion statement ..

I'm trying o say He used all of us

If one soul was,saved through a seed planted WitH the help of a NON CATHOLIC being used by the HOLY Spirit ..God's will was done .
WITHOUT YOUR CHURCH

THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOUR CHURCH BAD or wrong ..You honestly think.GOD DOES,NOT REACH WHO HE CALL A ..WHEN HE CALLS THRM unless it's,Church originated ..GOD IS HELPLESS OUTSIDE A CHURCH ????

I hate to break his,to you but we,don't worship LUTHER ..or dead preachers .

Even live one's, I may listen to..if they speak sound doctrine ..But I don't worship or pray to them..
JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS NOT CATHOLIC

OR TELLS, ABOUT HISTORY ..DOES NOT MAKE IT ANTI CATHOLIC..

You see the world very differently than I do
..I believe many Catholics,are born again believers,

It's what's in your heart ..NOT THE PEW YOU SIT IN..oh and your other apology on the Inquisition. About measures,right or wrong ..used to get information from terrorists,

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

First it's not in God's name torturing people ..burning them...to make Them confess,Jesus as,Lord ..

SECOND ..THE PEOPLE BEING TORTURED were,Jews,and non Catholic..And Muslim who did not go with JESUS,but they were innocent

And the POPE SURE DID HAVE POWER OVER KINGS .

HE EXCOMMUNICATED HENRY but not the Inquistion Monarchs???

He helped engineer who did and did not take the throne ..United in Marriages,for politics,and alliances ..

So whether the,HOLY Office purged or the kings,BOTH WERE WRONG

AND ILL WAGER THAT IS NO WHERE IN APOSTOLIC TRADITION.

And at least John Paul was sorry for any Church involvement ..God bless the,man..he tried ..

,

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#478921 Sep 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Scripture came from tradition. It couldn't have been the other way around because the first Book to be written in the NT didn't happen until 25 yrs after Jesus died.
A person can easily cherry pick whatever they want form the Bible and early Church fathers too. You demonstrate how it's possible to take a paragraph they wrote and imply whatever you wish. However, when you isolate a line they wrote, you do not see the big picture. Will they validate Holy Scriptures in their writings? Yes, they better if their Catholic. Scripture is essential to Catholicism, but so is the word of God given orally. First came the Church and sacred tradition and then came the Bible.
Seriously, the Bible is not one Book. Its a collection of Books. Since Christ never gave anyone a list of Books to put in there, it took an infallible outside authority to compile it.
The Holy Bible

A collection of writings which the Church of God has solemnly recognized as inspired.

The name is derived from the Greek expression biblia (the books), which came into use in the early centuries of Christianity to designate the whole sacred volume. In the Latin of the Middle Ages, the neuter plural for Biblia (gen. bibliorum) gradually came to be regarded as a feminine singular noun (biblia, gen. bibliae, in which singular form the word has passed into the languages of the Western world. It means "The Book", by way of eminence, and therefore well sets forth the sacred character of our inspired literature. Its most important equivalents are: "The Divine Library" (Bibliotheca Divina), which was employed by St. Jerome in the fourth century; "the Scriptures", "the Holy Scripture" — terms which are derived from expressions found in the Bible itself; and "the Old and New Testament", in which collective title, "the Old Testament" designates the sacred books written before the coming of Our Lord, and "the New Testament" denotes the inspired writings composed since the coming of Christ.

It is a fact of history that in the time of Christ the Jews were in possession of sacred books, which differed widely from one another in subject, style, origin and scope, and it is also a fact that they regarded all such writings as invested with a character which distinguished them from all other books. This was the Divine authority of every one of these books and of every part of each book. This belief of the Jews was confirmed by Our Lord and His Apostles; for they supposed its truth in their teaching, used it as a foundation of their doctrine, and intimately connected with it the religious system of which they were the founders. The books thus approved were handed down to the Christian Church as the written record of Divine revelation before the coming of Christ. The truths of Christian revelation were made known to the Apostles either by Christ Himself or by the Holy Ghost. They constitute what is called the Deposit of Faith, to which nothing has been added since the Apostolic Age. Some of the truths were committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost and have been handed down to us in the books of the New Testament. Written originally to individual Churches or persons, to meet particular necessities, and accommodated as they all were to particular and existing circumstances, these books were gradually received by the universal Church as inspired, and with the sacred books of the Jews constitute the Bible.

“Happy 2016!!”

Since: Apr 08

Saint Teresa Pray 4 Us.

#478922 Sep 28, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Much of your Church is,for good ..many in it are true Christians,.
BUT THE,SPOUSE IF JESUS,IS,THE BODY IF BELIEVERS,
IF THE CC IS THE SPOUSE,how,to explain things,in the,Past done in its,name .
WOULD THE SPOUSE OF JESUSX. ALLOW, THE NAME OF JESUS,TO BE USED FOR UNHOLY ACTS,.
Not bringing them up ..just saying
Was,Pope,Alexander BORGIA,..really a,successor to Peter ..
God,has used,both Catholic and then . in CATHOLIC to spread HIS,HOLY WORD,..
DO YOU REALLY THINK...OKDER CATHOLICS,that you would have regular BIBLE STUDY if it were,not for the,non Catholics influence .
Not the scriptures,read in Mass ..actual study if all the,scripture with a,bible not a CATECHISM In your hands,
I don't expect a,real answer ...But God,Seeing EHAT had been done in His name ..allowed for the,Reformation ...that's truth
So there,WOUKD be,HIS,UNADULTERATED WORD IN THE NEW,WORLD NOT CONTROLED BY KKNGS,OR POPES ..
Be grateful that the first Christians called Catholics kept the WORD alive at mass for all of us.

Well, yes the spouse is the believers IN HIS CHURCH the one HE Started!!
How would you know about Jesus when there were no Bible in circulation for 1500 years… Christian went to mass to HEAR THE WORD. Jesus never said go and pass out books to learn about me. Oh and BTW there were no protestants for 1500 years, so how would they have know about “bible study???‘.

I don’t believe you were ever Catholic, because you should know that the Catechism explains what is in the Bible. Duh!

You asked if Christ would allow unholy acts…. of course not, there have been sinners throughout history, and still is.

This was in the news this week…try to explain this…. AND THIS MINISTERS ARE MARRIED.[OH MY]

BILLY GRAHAM’S GRANDSON: EVANGELICALS ‘WORSE’ THAN
CATHOLICS ON SEX ABUSE.

AUSTIN, Texas (RNS) The Christian mission field is a “magnet” for sexual abusers, Boz Tchividjian, a Liberty University law professor who investigates abuse said Thursday (Sept. 26) to a room of journalists.

While comparing evangelicals to Catholics on abuse response,”I think we are worse,” he said at the Religion Newswriters Association conference, saying too many evangelicals had “sacrificed the souls” of young victims.

“Protestants can be very arrogant when pointing to Catholics,” said Tchividjian, a grandson of evangelist Billy Graham and executive director of Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment (GRACE), which has investigated sex abuse allegations.

Earlier this summer, GRACE spearheaded an online petition decrying the “silence” and “inattention” of evangelical leaders to sexual abuse in their churches.

Mission agencies,“where abuse is most prevalent,” often don’t report abuse because they fear being barred from working in foreign countries, he said. Abusers will get sent home and might join another agency. Of known data from abuse cases, 25 percent are repeat cases, he said.

More here
http://www.religionnews.com/2013/09/26/billy-...

“Happy 2016!!”

Since: Apr 08

Saint Teresa Pray 4 Us.

#478923 Sep 28, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
"Sounds anti protestant literature ...But no one here worships Luther."
Its Hiostorical fact and I disagree as Luther introduced Novelties and you follow a variation of his man made tradition not Holy Tradition.
I don't even know what all he nailed up..But that's what I'd believe he said ...not gossip ...just my opinion." It isn't gossip his writings are archived there are many more than these. His thesis wasnt the problem. The church agreed that the abuses needed to be stopped and it wasnt the first time abuses had to be addressed. If you think any church doesnt have a Judas or is sinless then you would be wrong. It was when he took it upon himself to change doctrines by his own accord that was the problem. His movement wsa very political so when you say God used him because the church was political that is nonsense.
"I know he was against selling indulgences" So was the church and it never approved selling them. HOwever, I doubt very much you know what an indulgence entails, the history, or the biblical basis, but its convenient to blast at something you are know very little about other than perhaps a distorted view offered by your comrades.
He also REALIZED WHILE DOING A GRAVE PENANCE ..That no person can make up for sin ..how much for what. "The Apostles were not aware that no penance was necessary or that ongoing repentance with sincerity or nothing but faith alone was necessary. He added the word alone and its nowhwere to be found other than James where it says NOT by Faith Alone. Isolatting the text leads to..There will come a time when they will not endure sound doctrine.
You cannot make kings,and allow them to torture people and NEVER EXCOMMUNICATE THEM..The church did not make Kings. And the US today tortures people and polls showed that most Protestants were in favor of torture and give it a rest you all love the Muslims. You dont know anything about the inquistions, to whome they applied, how it was applied. Why and what the role of the church was so give that a rest and dont pretend that Protestants werent burning witches far more than any inquisition by the way including in the U.S. If slavery or actions that caused death or any wrong or sin is the test for the real church then none passes.
I pray daily to know truth when I read it or post it. I havent seen you you take any action or statement from you that would suggest that you are interested in anything other than furthering attacks against the church.
From another post there have always been loons ..it seriously mental.people who use God to explain evil.. Too incoherent to understand.
Ask the FATHER IN HIS NAME .....how can you be wrong. I think many aksed and did their will rather than his including Protestants. BTW God instructed Joshua to have an inquistion and those found guilty were stoned.
It's not he POPE that saves ..it's Jesus
The church doesnt say the Pope saves you. However the church was founded by CHrist and Peter was given the keys. Its an office. The Apostles made mistakes too, but you believe their writings are Gospel. However I know that you do not the role of the Papacy in history or its biblical basis nor his limitations, but you are covering difft subjects. The usual protestant method is to fire numerous accusations covering multiple topics that is why this thread repeats things that were covered in detail in the past.
Amen! Worth re-posting.
<><
Gods R Delusions

Orlando, FL

#478924 Sep 28, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Pope Leo like anyone else is not perfect but he NEVER sold or authorized the selling of Indulgences.
What the Pope authorized was the Preaching of an Indulgence all across Europe,
with all the usual attached conditions (genuine repentance, contrition, prayer for the Church and the intentions of the successor of Peter, rejection of attachment to sin),
for those who would make a charitable donation of any amount, for the rebuilding
of the decrepit St. Peter's Basilica.
A popular ignormaous myth is it was selling salvation of which they have nothing to do with at all.
Yes there were unscrpulous who abused it. If we believe Luther remarks paraphrased like."
As soon as a coin in the coffer rings, a Soul
from Purgatory SPRINGS!!" These types of sarcastic caricature of what those men said may be true, but he was known for his extreme sarcasm and harshness. Yes they were abused, but no they were not what many think and say they are and Luther while the best known for bringing abuses up was not the only one. In fact Tretzel was much maligned later and honest Protestant scholars have written on the many fairy tales and legends. Even Luther himself wrote to Tretzel offering consolation fo the malignement of him by his followers.
But Leo NEVER sold nor did he authorize anyone to sell indulgences. You can't just give a certain amount of money and actually receive an indulgence.
It doesn't, and has NEVER, worked that way, nor does it have anything at all to do with buying your way into heaven , a second chance or any other rubbish that is so often seen.
And by the way the Cathedral wasnt just built by funds raised with your flawed accusation. My statement was that the church never approved of selling of indulgences. It didnt. Furthermore, any offering of an indlulgence that is attached to money was profhibited at Trent to avoid any further abuse or accusation, but mythical legends live on.. Giving Alms to the poor or worthy cause is a good thing as it says in the bible. It is unfortunate that some men abused it with corruptness and perhaps even withholding donations for themselves. No Charity frauds right? Ananias and Saphirra didnt lie to Peter about giving everything did they? They sure did. A pious act and men who abuse it are different. However those who distort the facts of a belief to malign the church is a malicious act of hate that is arguably even worse then what some corrupt men did. In essence it speaks volumes about you.
Same old and familiar refrain - the Pope knew nothing.

That absurd position protects the "perfection" of your faith, but we both know it's highly unlikely.

The obvious question is -- where did Pope Leo think all that money was coming from?

Pope Leo was a scoundrel, but a smart one. He wasn't naive and he certainly wasn't a fool. Leo knew exactly where the money was coming from and he took it happily.

His overlooking the excesses in the sale of indulgences was completely consistent with his character. To insist otherwise is simply not reasonable

Furthermore, reason and logic tell us that no benign God would call such a human His "vicar." Please!!! That would be an insult to any god.

“Happy 2016!!”

Since: Apr 08

Saint Teresa Pray 4 Us.

#478925 Sep 28, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Honesty must be hard to acknowledge with you, huh?
It's okay, many so-called "Christians" are like this. They would ratehr live in the dismay of lies than to face life and others with the honesty and truth in what Jesus asked of us to do.
Fear seems to be a problem here.
Fear you will be ridiculed for telling the truth that you don't believe in all of his teachings.
Fear of admitting that men chose the teachings you are to believe, and didn't choose the ones you should be.
Fear of failing.
Why is it that you can't be honest with me, but have to lie in such a direct and straight-forward manner?
Are you trying to impress others? Well, I for one, don't see you even doing that.
Oh plezzzzeee!! Calm down will you.

You are describing your own feelings, I’m sure!!

Jesus said ‘ Be not afraid’.


May God bless you and your wife.

Ba-bye, we’re done.

“Happy 2016!!”

Since: Apr 08

Saint Teresa Pray 4 Us.

#478926 Sep 28, 2013
----------POPE FRANCIS NEWS----------
September 27, 2013.( Romereports.com )

Pope Francis welcomed the director general of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the leading group in charge of enforcing the worldwide ban on the use of chemical weapons.

The audience between the Pope and Ahmet Üzümcü, from Turkey, lasted a few minutes. The two leaders briefly spoke about the organization's goals. They then exchanged gifts.

The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons was established in 1997, when the treaty from the Chemical Weapons Convention entered into effect. Syria will become the newest member when it ratifies the treaty, leaving only four other countries to sign it: Angola, Egypt, North Korea and South Sudan.
Clay

Stillwater, MN

#478927 Sep 28, 2013
Gods R Delusions wrote:
<quoted text>
All made up after the fact.
If today's Marian doctrine were so important, why did every single Apostle forget to write about it in the Gospels?
Why was Mary left completely out of the first Nicene Creed?
There is no logical explanation, except that it was made up after the fact.
That's called reality. Faith is not based on reality. If you don't live it, it means nothing. Good luck "living" your faith through anger and hatred.
Mary's life isn't fully documented in the NT. Neither are most of the Apostles..however, we can see from the Book of Revelation how John witnessed Mary as the Queen of Heaven "clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet".
Also, we can see from the miraculous Marian apparitions of recent, how God is using Mary to bring people to Jesus. Fatima, Lourdes, Medjugorjie, are the more popular ones.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#478928 Sep 28, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
YOUR QUESTION WAS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO NEVER HEARD THE WORD..
they will be judged by what they know ..That is why the Great Commission so many WILL KNOW,.
But some hermit raising his family out of the rest of the world..????
He and his family will be judged by God ...in their ignorance ...what measure He uses is HIS ALONE...
BUT FOR THOSE who hear and reject ..IT IS WHO WE KNOW AND BELIEVE AS SAVIOUR.
RoSesz

Peace

I do not preach, but I think and ask myself, "If all people in this world knows God, because they exist, then those who do not seek God, choose not to seek the Will of God?"

And my answer is that it is not important for those who do not seek the Will of God, to do so, at some(or many) time(s) in their lives.

It is more evident in the person who seeks God, that they follow the Spirit. A spiritual person is different, than those who simply follow the ways of the world.

If Jesus were walking through the world today, then how many would listen? Most would ignore him, some would like him for awhile. But when he begins to speak of spiritual things most would fall back into the world....

It is just what I think, for now. God has been and always will be the Judge, but it is our choice to listen and follow Him. So it is more important to live the virtuous life of Jesus Christ, than it is to be anything else.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#478929 Sep 28, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
I enjoyed John's posts to me, they challenged me.
I enjoy coming back to this forum, I usually do when I am struggling in my own personal dessert, it gets me back in the word, and it brings up that which is deep down in my Heart that which I am incapable of denying.
Jesus is Lord, He is real, he rose and he is coming back.
It takes me back to that which is indisputable truth, in a world that tries to make everything grey and relative.
I like that it is anonymous, you can throw out your thesis beliefs and not get ex-communicated or dead if you make a mistake or your beliefs are contrary to the establishment.
Its a good test range so to speak.
Luther posted his on the church door, it was the bulletin board of his day, the Topix of forum of the day, it was considered an Idea board if you will. It was were fellow contemporary's could come and test your and their ideas.
In his day though you had to be careful because to disagree more often than not got you dead in his day.
Here the worse that can happen to you is you get called a Hater, a fundie, no worries like water of a ducks back.
I pray for your health and God's will always.
I hope to meet you on the other side your posts convince me you are a person with compassion and a gentle heart.
I on the other hand I am a Big Canadian Moose in the China shop.
Thank you for your comments.I will respond as the time goes on,now I have to go.You are definitely a hard rock of debatal skill,and I am thankful for that!Because although Concerned in Brazil,that you and I are not part of a perfect system,we have the Bible,and we know that the Lord Jesus christ is true to His Word,that means the promise of the Holy Spirit is to all whosoever will believe and follow.We do not have to be baptized into a system of beliefs as a n infant or even an adult,but baptized into Christ.Thus begins the Born-again experience,AFTER repentance.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#478930 Sep 28, 2013
hear, you catholics and listen to the Word of God as it is Preached by Rev Charlie Ragland.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp... ^Ragland

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#478931 Sep 28, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
hear, you catholics and listen to the Word of God as it is Preached by Rev Charlie Ragland.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp... ^Ragland
http://www.sermonaudio.com/ser moninfo.asp?SID=31510644417.

PAD< listen to this old time Preacher.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#478932 Sep 28, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
You can post all the quotes you wish of early church fathers, but if you are fair and honest as the article I posted for you demonstrates when they use the word tradition, they mean the teachings from Scripture. In Context Traditions simply means teachings and all early Church fathers based their teachings on scripture as was their tradition.
If not all the early church fathers have contradicted themselves and should be ignored.
What you and Roman Catholics do is bring a 1000 year old definition of Tradition to their writings and never bother to try and understand what they meant when they used the word Tradition, remember the original word is not English. YOU need to actually read the book or at the very least the chapter you are cherry picking the sentence from if you wish to understand what the word meant to the author not what you mean by the word and then read your 2000 year old definition into the word and not use the 1st century meaning of the word. CONTEXT rules.
If we wish to be real as you write then if we are to say the Bible does not teach sola scriptoria and thus not believe it is doctrine then we must say the same for the Trinity, original sin, etc.
But just like you can state the Bible teaches the Trinity it teaches sola scriptoria.
Lets really be REAL bro the Apostles, my Lord Jesus never use anything but scripture to make an argument for doctrine and practice never once do the use what you call tradition.
Neither do the early church Fathers as I have demonstrated to you as you can't refute. You just say you can never putting up anything in context to prove your assertions.
now that really would be LOL and cute if your salvation and eternal destiny was not hung in the balance.
tradition: paradosis: transmission, i.e.(concretely) a precept; specially, the Jewish traditionary law:--ordinance, tradition.

Clay is actually arguing, and knows not that he does, that the Catholics are following the Jewish traditionary law...ordinance!!!!!!

Halakhah: Jewish Law
The root of the Hebrew term used to refer to Jewish law, halakhah, means "go" or "walk." Halakhah, then, is the "way" a Jew is directed to behave in every aspect of life, encompassing civil, criminal, and religious law.

The foundation of Judaism is the Torah (the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, sometimes referred to as “the Five Books of Moses”).

"Torah" means "instruction" or "teaching," and like all teaching it requires interpretation and application. Jewish tradition teaches that Moses received the Torah from God at Mount Sinai. The Torah is replete with instructions, directives, statutes, laws, and rules. Most are directed to the Israelites, some to all humanity.

Anybody ever know a Catholic that behaved as a Jew in every aspect of life, encompassing civil, criminal, and religious law...per the Torah????

Catholic Church's long road to accepting Judaism - Los Angeles Times
articles.latimes.com/2009/may/11/opinion/oe-h... ;
May 11, 2009 - When Pope Benedict XVI sets foot in Jerusalem today, he will be only the third pope in history to do so. The visit comes at a crucial time for both ...

Sounds to me like Catholicism and Judaism are as far apart as the east is to the west!!!

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