Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 641574 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#478549 Sep 26, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what you have recently posted or not.
Luther did not pull any books out.
I was confirmed in a Luther fellowship many years ago and my bible included the Apocrypha not to be considered scripture to be used for doctrine but an aid as would a writing of an early church father.
The Books where never canonized by the RCC until the 16th century. After Luther declared them not to be considered scripture.
But the question is which Apocrypha it has changed over the centuries.
Jerome the translator of the Latin Bible did not consider them scripture either as did the early church fathers, as did the Jews as did Jesus.
If you wish to enter into a debate of the facts be prepared to be soundly defeated, I know what I am posting I have studied intensely and I am ready to give an answer to the truth in and out of season.
3552
"Jerome the translator of the Latin Bible did not consider them scripture either as did the early church fathers, as did the Jews as did Jesus."

St. Jerome was sceptical, but in the end did agree. Certainly the fathers did debate, even some books that we both consider today were debated. The Jews of the diaspora had the Septuagint. You seem to want to place the burden of proof on the Catholic Church, but why do the Orthodox and all the other ancient Churches consider them scripture?
truth

The Vines, Australia

#478550 Sep 26, 2013
My God don't need false lips with humble double mining.
My God don't need or asked kiss me in my hand.
If you suffering
pray and cry o don't worry..offer yourself with prayers on that Cross..its pain which never exist before with hands and lags body and mind.

If you experience that on Cross as INRI don't be afraid of great liars.
God know all your error or weakness but don't be afraid from corupt lips.

Love your God with your minds.

Crown pain is most worst then anything
o don't worry what they going tell you.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#478551 Sep 26, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
YOU HAVE MY SINCERE PITY....that you can't say that you knew anything about God when.. OR BEFORE YOU you were 17 years of age,..
I was teaching vacation Bible school, before I was 12,and youth leader
in the church I attended ...in my early teens...
It is a pity that you did not have the same heritage I have enjoyed...
Only God knows what you could have become for him if you were given the
opportunity that I HAVE EXPERIENCED..AND HAD BEEN TAUGHT THE TRUTH OF GODS WORD...
THEN YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE BECOME THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT OF GOD THAT YOU ARE
ONE OF the things that bothers me (among others ) IS
TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN MUCH IS REQUIRED...THE ACCOUNTABILITY THAT IS
EXACTED OF MYSELF BEFORE GOD...
WHAT ABOUT YOUR ACCOUNTABILITY...
TO HIM TO SPEAK THE TRUTH, YOU DO HAVE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY DON'T YOU KNOW...
YOU COULD TRY TO ONCE IN A WHILE .It might do you good and help you too
Since you don't teach the truth, I find it hard to believe you even believe in Jesus.
truth

The Vines, Australia

#478552 Sep 26, 2013
Law of death died on INRI.
Concerned in Brasil

Aberdeen, UK

#478553 Sep 26, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
"Through none others know we the disposition of our salvation, than those through whom the gospel came to us, first heralding it, then by the will of God delivering to us the Scriptures, which were to be the foundation and pillar of our faith...But when, the heretics are Scriptures, as if they were wrong, and unauthoritative, and were variable, and the truth could not be extracted from them by those who were ignorant of Tradition...And when we challenge them in turn what that tradition, which is from the Apostles, which is guarded by the succession of elders in the churches, they oppose themselves to Tradition, saying that they are wiser, not only than those elders, but even than the Apostles. The Tradition of the Apostles, manifested 'on the contrary' in the whole world, is open in every Church to all who see the truth...And, since it is a long matter in a work like this to enumerate these successions, we will confute them by pointing to the Tradition of that greatest and most ancient and universally known Church, founded and constituted at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, a tradition which she has had and a faith which she proclaims to all men from those Apostles.' Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,1-3 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"We do not take our scriptural teaching from the parables but we interpret the parables according to our teaching." Tertullian, Purity 9,1 (c. A.D. 200).
'Let them show the origins of their churches, let them unroll the list of their bishops, through a succession coming down from the very beginning that their first bishop had his authority and predecessor someone from among the number of Apostles or apostolic men and, further, that he did not stray from the Apostles. In this way the apostolic churches present their earliest records. The church of Smyrna, for example, records that Polycarp was named by John; the Romans, that Clement was ordained by Peter. In just the same way, the other churches show who were made bishops by the Apostles and who transmitted the apostolic seed to them. Let the heretics invent something like that.' Tertullian, The Prescription Against Heretics 32 (c. A.D. 200).
Nothing above affirms Romes position unless you read into his words that which is not there.

However lets be clear what he did state explicitly

Tertullian’s View of Scripture

Tertullian unambiguously taught that the Scriptures consist of the Old Testament with the apostolic epistles and Gospels designated as the New Testament.51 In his descriptions of the Scriptures, he refers to them repeatedly again as divine, inspired, sacred, holy, the word of God and the voice of the Holy Spirit.52 He considered them fully inspired and authoritative for the establishing of doctrine and the refutation of error. His writings are replete with examples. He believed the Scriptures to be the sole authoritative source from which we derive Christian doctrine and an understanding of apostolic tradition. Ellen Flesseman–van Leer comments on the authoritative nature of Scripture for Tertullian:

Because scripture contains the revelation and is part of tradition, it has of course absolute authority...And therefore, if a doctrine or precept is written in the Bible, it cannot be but true, and if a dogma needs to be proved true, it is entirely sufficient to show that it is written. And even more important, scripture is not only sufficient evidence, but strictly necessary evidence for proving the truth of a dogma.

Ellen Flesseman–van Leer, Tradition and Scripture in the Early Church (Assen: Van Gorcum, 1953), p. 172.
http://www.christiantruth.com/scriptureandchu...

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#478554 Sep 26, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Believe what you want New Age! You are just another one of the 42,000 Protestant contradicting, conflicting and inconsistent bible only buffoons who preaches a 21st century man-made doctrine of "make it up" as you go, half truth, half-heresy Christianity. IT IS ALL YOURS!!! YOU CAN HAVE IT!! I/we as Catholics will CONTINUE (as billions of Catholics "have" who have )gone before us marked with the sign of the TRUE faith) for over 2000 years, to follow, believe and adhere to the TRUTH of Jesus Christ and TRUE SALVATION in and through His One TRUE Catholic Church (the bride of Christ) You--New Age---can do want you want. Good luck! YOU will need it!!!
Why do you continue to make up things about me?

Do you find comfort in lying about others?

Maybe you should speak with your priest about all of this anger you have bottled up within you.

*sighs*

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#478555 Sep 26, 2013
OldJG wrote:
Alligator Scars (Fiction)
Some years ago on a hot summer day in south Florida a little boy decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house.
In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he ran out the back door, leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went. He flew into the water, not realizing that as he swam toward the middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore.
His mother - in the house was looking out the window - saw the two as they got closer and closer together. In utter fear, she ran toward the water, yelling to her son as loudly as she could.
Hearing her voice, the little boy became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his mother. It was too late. Just as he reached her, the alligator reached him.
From the dock, the mother grabbed her little boy by the arms just as the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the mother, but the mother was much too passionate to let go. A farmer happened to drive by, heard her screams, raced from his truck, took aim and shot the alligator.
Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred by the vicious attack of the animal and, on his arms, were deep scratches where his mother's fingernails dug into his flesh in her effort to hang on to the son she loved.
The newspaper reporter who interviewed the boy after the trauma, asked if he would show him his scars. The boy lifted his pant legs. And then, with obvious pride, he said to the reporter, "But look at my arms. I have scars on my arms, too. I have them because my mom wouldn't let go."
You and I can identify with that little boy. We have scars, too. No, not from an alligator, or anything quite so dramatic. But, the scars of a painful past. Some of those scars are unsightly and have caused us deep regret.
But, some wounds, my friend, are because God has refused to let go.
In the midst of your struggle, He's been there holding on to you.
The Scripture teaches that God loves you.
If you have Christ in your life, you have become a child of God. He wants to protect you and provide for you in every way. But sometimes we foolishly wade into dangerous situations. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and we forget that the enemy is waiting to attack. That's when the tug-o-war begins - and if you have the scars of His love on your arms be very, very grateful.
He did not - and will not - let you go. Thank you Jesus. Amen.
~~~

Your story is very impressive..

.but

wouldn't it have been better if the little by had avoided the whole

scenario by listening to the warning of his parents before hand...

Most of the time....

Christians can avoid the tug-o-war between God

and the enemy... by simply listening to the inner voice of the Holy Spirit...

The Bible says

Ecc_10:8 He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him.

Jesus said...

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,

he will guide you into all truth:

for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

If Adam and Eve had obeyed God ...Jesus would nt have had to die

If Abraham had not empregnated Hagar...
there would be no descendents of Ishmael and those of Issac fighting over their inheritance the land called Israel in the middle east...

Christians believe that Isaac is the son of promise

Muslims believe that Ishmael ( the son of the bond woman) is the heir...

The war has raged over the inheritance

Abraham's liaison with Hagar. has cost the lives of millions.

Jesus said

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

#478556 Sep 26, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>

Make all the straw men you want it only shows your lack of intelligence and a willingness to debate in honor and honesty, it only shows those seeking truth that your assertions can not be shown
If you want to interject "straw men" into your comments, I suggest you start with your 21st century modernistic Protestant writers who continue to "make up their own Church History" as well as "their own interpretation (or better yet MIS-INTERPRETATION of the bible as it neatly fits into their Protestant bible only anti-catholic "agenda"!!
You "fundies" continue to post (nothing) but "Relative Truth" PERSONAL OPINIONS that you have "dug up" and refer to from your remote and obscure 21st century modernistic (anti-catholic sources). I'll take over 2000 years of TRUTH from "wisdom, discernment and guidance from the Holy Spirit, through prayer, acuteness of understanding and insight" from the first 1500 years of Jesus Christs One True Apostolic Catholic Church, in arriving at the TRUE precepts of the TRUE faith, TRUE Church History and the TRUE interpretation of the bible. I lived this Sola Scriptura (man-invented, man made (half-truth, half-heresy Christian (lie) for over 35 years as a bible only Protestant....I thank God (every day), after 3 years of bible school, 4 years of University theology study and 3 years of investigating and researching TRUE Church History of (1500 years prior to the Reformation) in Pre-seminary study, that Our Lord (open my eyes to the TRUTH) of Jesus Christs One TRUE (historically and biblically PROVEN) Catholic Church..... You bible only fundamentalists have taken less than 500 years to "fracture, split, divide and splinter" into over 42,000 contradicting and inconsistent (Relative Truth) Protestant (PERSONAL OPINIONATED) denominations, NONE of which have ANY basis of biblical or historical truth to confirm and back up ANY of its doctrine of beliefs, EVERY ONE of these fundamental groups is centered around (what each person decides for himself to be the truth)... What you "fail" to understand, Concerned, is that there is absolutely NOTHING to discuss, NOTHING to contemplate, NOTHING to argue over and NOTHING to debate!!! The TRUTH of the TRUE Interpretation of the Bible and the TRUTH of TRUE Church History has been confirmed over and over and over again for over 2000 years. If you "really" want to know the TRUTH of what the Sacred Scriptures "truly mean" then read the Catholic Catechism and find out. However, we as Catholics "all know that you won't do that, because you would rather live in a world of "private judgment-anti Catholic Christianity, in which your personal opinionated (mis-interpreting of the bible) is your "final authority"...God has not, nor ever will be the author of your 42,000 bible only Protestant splintering, condemning and judgmental "confusion and chaos!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#478557 Sep 26, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
YOU HAVE MY SINCERE PITY....that you can't say that you knew anything about God when.. OR BEFORE YOU you were 17 years of age,..
I was teaching vacation Bible school, before I was 12,and youth leader
in the church I attended ...in my early teens...
It is a pity that you did not have the same heritage I have enjoyed...
Only God knows what you could have become for him if you were given the
opportunity that I HAVE EXPERIENCED..AND HAD BEEN TAUGHT THE TRUTH OF GODS WORD...
THEN YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE BECOME THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT OF GOD THAT YOU ARE
ONE OF the things that bothers me (among others ) IS
TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN MUCH IS REQUIRED...THE ACCOUNTABILITY THAT IS
EXACTED OF MYSELF BEFORE GOD...
WHAT ABOUT YOUR ACCOUNTABILITY...
TO HIM TO SPEAK THE TRUTH, YOU DO HAVE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY DON'T YOU KNOW...
YOU COULD TRY TO ONCE IN A WHILE .It might do you good and help you too
"YOU HAVE MY SINCERE PITY"
- please stop projecting, I don't require or need any of your pity.
- Why don't you do yourself a favor and pity someone who doesn't believe in all of what Jesus teaches.

"'TO HIM TO SPEAK THE TRUTH, YOU DO HAVE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY DON'T YOU KNOW...
YOU COULD TRY TO ONCE IN A WHILE .It might do you good and help you too"
- coming from someone who believes "Paul" over Jesus, believes men over Jesus, and really hasn't become a so-called "Christian" ever.

Yeah, sure.....I'll make a note of it.
Concerned in Brasil

Aberdeen, UK

#478558 Sep 26, 2013
So Anthony in light of Tertullians words he clearly would have rejected Romes dogma of Mary being Assumed as there is no mention of it in the Bible.

Not only that two Popes declared it heresy LOL

Then in 1950 its made dogma.

THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY
A Roman Catholic Dogma Originating with Heretics and Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries.

Pope Gelasius explicitly condemns the authors as well as their writings and the teachings which they promote and all who follow them. And significantly, this entire decree and its condemnation was reaffirmed by Pope Hormisdas in the sixth century around A.D. 520.(Migne Vol. 62. Col. 537-542). These facts prove that the early Church viewed the assumption teaching, not as a legitimate expression of the pious belief of the faithful but as a heresy worthy of condemnation.

So how is it that RCC tradition was the assumption of Mary to be false and then 1400 years later its dogma??

http://www.christiantruth.com/articles/assump...

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#478559 Sep 26, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you Protestant "fundies" claim to be (experts) in regard to Sola Scriptura or bible only beliefs (and as a former Protestant) please show ALL of us "where" in the bible that Sola Scriptura has ANY BASIS of biblical or historical truth to back it up!! You fundamentalists preach that "every word, every phrase, every sentence MUST BE IN THE bible in order for it to be TRUE. Then show us (book, chapter and verse)!! Also, please show us (where in the bible) that God chose to transmit HIS divine and infallible word ONLY in the Bible....Sola Scriptura "contradicts itself because NOWHERE is it taught in scripture..... Furthermore Sola Scriptura was NEVER believed by ANYONE until the Reformation and it nothing but a "man-made" tradition, condemned by Jesus....In addition, Sola Scriptura is unscriptural, unhistorical and untenable....... The teachings of the Catholic Church, from Jesus and the Apostles, go back over 2000 years!..... That is why Jesus Christs One True Apostolic (Universal) Church believes, teaches and adheres to "SOLA VERBUM DEI" (the word of God alone) This comes to us from Christ and the Apostles through BOTH the written and the oral tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:15) which has been entrusted to the Church that Jesus builds upon the rock of Peter (Matt 16:13-21......Furthermore, in Pauls letter to I Timothy 3:15, Paul calls THE CHURCH,(not the bible alone) the pillar, pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH....... The infallable wisdom of God (for over 2000 years) is made manifested and known in and through Our Lords One True Church (Eph. 3:9-10). Your Protestant "sola scriptura" premise that EVERYTHING must be only in the bible is (completely false). The fact that the bible (as we know it today) wasn't even written until the 17th century (John Guetenberg invented the printing press in 1440) and so (for the 1st 1500 years of the Church ( Sola Scriptura didn't even exist....... You really need to get a TRUE Church History lesson (Concerned) because you really have "no idea" as to what you are talking about!!.... Your 21st century (modern day Protestant theologians) are preaching a "distorted (half-truth. half-heresy) sola scriptura doctrine that is nothing but a "man-made" extension of the Protestant Reformation that (today) is made up of over 42,000 contradicting, inconsistent and conflicting (relative truth) denominations of different(bible interpretations) that "have never NOR will ever" agree on ANYTHING--accept--to attack, condemn and judge the TRUE faith and Salvation of 1.14 billion Catholics around the world, a TRUE Gospel that is taught (DAILY) in Jesus Christ One True Catholic Church.
Strange.

You'll require others to provide support for their belief, but you and every single one of them cannot support the belief that "God" inspired the books you use.

Please post where "God" specifically states which texts are "of His inspiration" and which are not.

I've asked this question multiple times, and am still waiting on an answer.

I've rcvd only one from Dan - and it was like pulling a molar from his mouth - he just couldn't stand to admit it.

What about you? Got Honesty?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#478560 Sep 26, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not condemning ANYONE! What you believe or don't believe is between you and GOD! He is the final judge of "everyones Salvation!! I/we as Catholics will continue to adhere to the TRUTH of the TRUE DOCTRINE AND TEACHINGS of Jesus Christ HIMSELF, which has be proven, authenticated and verified, over and over and over for more than 2000years by a vast majority of accredited Church Historians, Apologist authors and writers and in the biographical lives of the Saints, since the time of Christ. AGAIN--You Concerned, can do and believe want you want!! Makes no difference to us Catholics!!!!
Nope, you are still wrong.
Clay

Houston, TX

#478561 Sep 26, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
You know nothing of history
The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona in the year 1184. Jesus never taught the use of force to spread His religion your Pope even created a new order of Priests to carry out the inquisitions, trace that one back to early church fathers.
The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence
There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins.(Read 1st John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Romans 8:1).
This was not taught by Jesus his Apostles or early church fathers nope not a chance.
The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX
The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior.(Read Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47).
Again Not taught in the Bible, early church fathers.
YOU are either deceiver or brainwashed take your pick
Regardless of what you think about Purgatory or any other teaching, you're convince the Lord left us with a set canon of scripture and relied on you and everyone else to infallibly interpret the truth based on what was documented in writing, by some of His Apostles.... I just can't see Christ relying on this scenario to convey His Ministry to the world. Especially given the fact that He never instructs anyone to compile a Bible in the first place nor which Books He wants in there. I think you're really stretching a fantasy here and ignoring many facts to arrive at your 'infallible' interpretations. I've heard you guys say the Bible interprets itself, yet all I see you doing is interpreting it and most of what you've decided is opposite than what earlier Christianity understood.
Concerned in Brasil

Aberdeen, UK

#478562 Sep 26, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want to interject "straw men" into your comments, I suggest you start with your 21st century modernistic Protestant writers who continue to "make up their own Church History" as well as "their own interpretation (or better yet MIS-INTERPRETATION of the bible as it neatly fits into their Protestant bible only anti-catholic "agenda"!!
You "fundies" continue to post (nothing) but "Relative Truth" PERSONAL OPINIONS that you have "dug up" and refer to from your remote and obscure 21st century modernistic (anti-catholic sources). I'll take over 2000 years of TRUTH from "wisdom, discernment and guidance from the Holy Spirit, through prayer, acuteness of understanding and insight" from the first 1500 years of Jesus Christs One True Apostolic Catholic Church, in arriving at the TRUE precepts of the TRUE faith, TRUE Church History and the TRUE interpretation of the bible. I lived this Sola Scriptura (man-invented, man made (half-truth, half-heresy Christian (lie) for over 35 years as a bible only Protestant....I thank God (every day), after 3 years of bible school, 4 years of University theology study and 3 years of investigating and researching TRUE Church History of (1500 years prior to the Reformation) in Pre-seminary study, that Our Lord (open my eyes to the TRUTH) of Jesus Christs One TRUE (historically and biblically PROVEN) Catholic Church..... You bible only fundamentalists have taken less than 500 years to "fracture, split, divide and splinter" into over 42,000 contradicting and inconsistent (Relative Truth) Protestant (PERSONAL OPINIONATED) denominations, NONE of which have ANY basis of biblical or historical truth to confirm and back up ANY of its doctrine of beliefs, EVERY ONE of these fundamental groups is centered around (what each person decides for himself to be the truth)... What you "fail" to understand, Concerned, is that there is absolutely NOTHING to discuss, NOTHING to contemplate, NOTHING to argue over and NOTHING to debate!!! The TRUTH of the TRUE Interpretation of the Bible and the TRUTH of TRUE Church History has been confirmed over and over and over again for over 2000 years. If you "really" want to know the TRUTH of what the Sacred Scriptures "truly mean" then read the Catholic Catechism and find out. However, we as Catholics "all know that you won't do that, because you would rather live in a world of "private judgment-anti Catholic Christianity, in which your personal opinionated (mis-interpreting of the bible) is your "final authority"...God has not, nor ever will be the author of your 42,000 bible only Protestant splintering, condemning and judgmental "confusion and chaos!
you sure like to puff yourself up and pat yourself on the back.

Yet for a person who claims to be so learnt and qualified you have not posted one verifiable rational logical biblical historical argument that affirms let alone proves your assertions.

So far your posts are empty of substance and full of name calling.

Oh well it appears you lack any ability to defend your assertions.
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

#478563 Sep 26, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
The ever change doctrines of the Sect known as Roman Catholicism
437
Proclamation that infant baptism regenerates the soul
500
The Mass instituted as a re-sacrifice of Jesus for the remission of sins
593
Declaration that sins need to be purged, established by Pope Gregory I
600
Prayers directed to Mary, dead saints, and angels
786
Worship of cross, images, and relics authorized
995
Canonization of dead people as saints initiated by Pope John XV
1000
Attendance at Mass made mandatory under the penalty of mortal sin
1079
Celibacy of priesthood, decreed by Pope Gregory VII
1090
Rosary, repetitious praying with beads, invented by Peter the Hermit
1184
The Inquisition, instituted by the Council of Verona
1190
The sale of Indulgences established to reduce time in Purgatory
1215
Transubstantiation, proclaimed by Pope Innocent III
1215
Confession of sins to priests, instituted by Pope Innocent III
1229
Bible placed on Index of Forbidden Books in Toulouse
1438
Purgatory elevated from doctrine to dogma by Council of Florence
1545
Tradition claimed equal in authority with the Bible by the Council of Trent
1546
Apocryphal Books declared cannon by Council of Trent
1854
Immaculate Conception of Mary, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX
1870
Infallibility of the Pope, proclaimed by Vatican Council
1922
Virgin Mary proclaimed co-redeemer with Jesus by Pope Benedict XV
yea and they think Evangelical protestants are confused.
LOL
Yes,Concerned! EVERY ONE of your 42,000 contradicting and inconsistent bible only denominations, are living in confusion, disorder chaos,and disorientation or better yet half-truth, half-heresy Christianity, blinded to the FULLNESS of the TRUTH and the FULLNESS of the FAITH, that is manifested ONLY in Jesus Christ and His One True Apostolic Catholic Church. As I told you before, there is absolutely "no basis" of biblical or historical truth to back up ANYTHING that is being taught in your sola scriptura preaching. The bible clearly teaches what the Catholic Church teaches, professes and adheres to and that is Sola Verbum Dei (the Word of God alone) This comes directly from Christ and the Apostles through both the written and the oral tradition (2 Thess 2:15) which has been entrusted to the Universal (Catholic) Church that Jesus builds upon the rock of Peter (Matt 16:3-21 and in I Timothy 3:15 where Paul calls THE CHURCH (not the bible alone) as the pillar, pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH. The ineffable wisdom of God is made know through HIS Church (Eph 3:9-10. You see Concerned, you have "absolutely nothing to stand" on biblically or historically that confirms or backs up ANY of this post Reformation bible only teaching that distorts, perverts and twists the TRUE INTERPRETATION of the bible that the Early Church Fathers gave us in 382,393, and 397 AD when the Canon of Scripture was formulated giving you Protestants the bible in the 17th century, which you CONTINUE mis-interpret, to your own "demise and destruction. The TRUTH has, is and will ALWAYS be grounded, preserved, taught and adhered to in Jesus Christ, in and through HIS One True Catholic Church.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#478564 Sep 26, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
Your story is very impressive..
.but
wouldn't it have been better if the little by had avoided the whole
scenario by listening to the warning of his parents before hand...
Most of the time....
Christians can avoid the tug-o-war between God
and the enemy... by simply listening to the inner voice of the Holy Spirit...
The Bible says
Ecc_10:8 He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him.
Jesus said...
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
If Adam and Eve had obeyed God ...Jesus would nt have had to die
If Abraham had not empregnated Hagar...
there would be no descendents of Ishmael and those of Issac fighting over their inheritance the land called Israel in the middle east...
Christians believe that Isaac is the son of promise
Muslims believe that Ishmael ( the son of the bond woman) is the heir...
The war has raged over the inheritance
Abraham's liaison with Hagar. has cost the lives of millions.
Jesus said
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Most of those nominal Christians, such as you self blame God for what the devil has done...

They teach (and believe) that the Holy Ghost was withdrawn from the earth

that His wisdom was only for the early Church ...Therefore they do not have His leadership..

They acknowledge His work in being Born again .

Yet .. deny His ongoing maintenance of their lives from that point on...

they are like the modern Preacher that says..

."Now Holy Spirit...You just step aside...I can take it from here.

this accounts for

the anemic,

powerless,

absence of anointing,

scoffing at miracles..

berating and disclaiming of ministries that are being used of God ..

plus the devils influence that has brought churches to believe

in gay marriage,homosexual lesbians and compromising of the teachings of

Jesus concerning living a sanctified holy life style...

2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Concerned in Brasil

Aberdeen, UK

#478565 Sep 26, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"Jerome the translator of the Latin Bible did not consider them scripture either as did the early church fathers, as did the Jews as did Jesus."
St. Jerome was sceptical, but in the end did agree. Certainly the fathers did debate, even some books that we both consider today were debated. The Jews of the diaspora had the Septuagint. You seem to want to place the burden of proof on the Catholic Church, but why do the Orthodox and all the other ancient Churches consider them scripture?
Jerome never considered them scripture only authoritative, not to be used for doctrine.

Why do you dismiss the fact Jesus never recognized them never quoted from them but does nearly every book in the OT except 3???

Why is Augustine's different from Jeorme's why for hundreds of years did Christians align themselves in one or the others camp, why did they both not consider them scripture?

Why do 1st and 2nd century church fathers not quote them as scripture yet we can re-construct the Bible (non RC or Orthodox) from their quotes alone?

Oh well won't get answer I suppose its been 5 years now.

Why were they never canonized till Trent some 1500 years ans why were some books that were in Jeorme's and Augustine's left out?

Don't say because it was assumed, no one every questioned the Gospels or Acts or the Epistles yet they were canonized 1400 years earlier.

It was because never had they been equal to the other books or considered Scripture until then and only then by a corrupt Pope who got caught selling indulgences and stealing from the flock and needed a diversion.
Concerned in Brasil

Aberdeen, UK

#478566 Sep 26, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes,Concerned! EVERY ONE of your 42,000 contradicting and inconsistent bible only denominations, are living in confusion, disorder chaos,and disorientation or better yet half-truth, half-heresy Christianity, blinded to the FULLNESS of the TRUTH and the FULLNESS of the FAITH, that is manifested ONLY in Jesus Christ and His One True Apostolic Catholic Church. As I told you before, there is absolutely "no basis" of biblical or historical truth to back up ANYTHING that is being taught in your sola scriptura preaching. The bible clearly teaches what the Catholic Church teaches, professes and adheres to and that is Sola Verbum Dei (the Word of God alone) This comes directly from Christ and the Apostles through both the written and the oral tradition (2 Thess 2:15) which has been entrusted to the Universal (Catholic) Church that Jesus builds upon the rock of Peter (Matt 16:3-21 and in I Timothy 3:15 where Paul calls THE CHURCH (not the bible alone) as the pillar, pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH. The ineffable wisdom of God is made know through HIS Church (Eph 3:9-10. You see Concerned, you have "absolutely nothing to stand" on biblically or historically that confirms or backs up ANY of this post Reformation bible only teaching that distorts, perverts and twists the TRUE INTERPRETATION of the bible that the Early Church Fathers gave us in 382,393, and 397 AD when the Canon of Scripture was formulated giving you Protestants the bible in the 17th century, which you CONTINUE mis-interpret, to your own "demise and destruction. The TRUTH has, is and will ALWAYS be grounded, preserved, taught and adhered to in Jesus Christ, in and through HIS One True Catholic Church.
you sure like to puff yourself up and pat yourself on the back.

Yet for a person who claims to be so learnt and qualified you have not posted one verifiable rational logical biblical historical argument that affirms let alone proves your assertions.

So far your posts are empty of substance and full of name calling.

Oh well it appears you lack any ability to defend your assertions.
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#478567 Sep 26, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"Jerome the translator of the Latin Bible did not consider them scripture either as did the early church fathers, as did the Jews as did Jesus."
St. Jerome was sceptical, but in the end did agree. Certainly the fathers did debate, even some books that we both consider today were debated. The Jews of the diaspora had the Septuagint. You seem to want to place the burden of proof on the Catholic Church, but why do the Orthodox and all the other ancient Churches consider them scripture?
Hey Anthony, Can't stay, but but I see the sleight of hand Brazilian nut is back at his games. Jeromes main scepticism came from that he was unaware of any Hebrew tranccripts. The Dead Sea scrolls prove this reservation wrong. However, yes as you said he did accept and defend them. They always leave that part out in their proof texts. And yes virtually every book in the bible was debated. Looking at the criteria that was used to determine that which would be scripture is pretty important.

As for Gelasius and Hormisda it is very dishonest to say they condemned the Assumption of Mary. What was condemned is alot of books that contained lots of innacuracies. A title of a book does not mean its all accuarate.

Here is a list of books that came into question which liberties were taken that the assumption was condemened. The claim that Cyril of Jersulem or Athanasius were sola scripture is quite laughable as well as he proof texts. How often have wee seen that? lol If they took into consideration the audience that was being written to and their other writings anyone who really wanted the truth would see through the deception of the Brazilian who is not concerned about any truth nor does it matter. Remember the Inquistions killed more than all the People that existed in Europe from his truth matters sites. lol All of them believe the same truths of the bible? Not even close. The definition of sola scripture keeps changing amongst various protestant groups but He has the real deal on that. I read it and it was sad. It was so full of holes, but Im not going to spend hours with that clown.

Here is a link though that I think you should read about the books. http://www.tertullian.org/decretum_eng.htm

Cheers!

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#478568 Sep 26, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
Jerome never considered them scripture only authoritative, not to be used for doctrine.
Why do you dismiss the fact Jesus never recognized them never quoted from them but does nearly every book in the OT except 3???
Why is Augustine's different from Jeorme's why for hundreds of years did Christians align themselves in one or the others camp, why did they both not consider them scripture?
Why do 1st and 2nd century church fathers not quote them as scripture yet we can re-construct the Bible (non RC or Orthodox) from their quotes alone?
Oh well won't get answer I suppose its been 5 years now.
Why were they never canonized till Trent some 1500 years ans why were some books that were in Jeorme's and Augustine's left out?
Don't say because it was assumed, no one every questioned the Gospels or Acts or the Epistles yet they were canonized 1400 years earlier.
It was because never had they been equal to the other books or considered Scripture until then and only then by a corrupt Pope who got caught selling indulgences and stealing from the flock and needed a diversion.
As you here in the forum... probably have taken note...

I don't argue the supposed history of The Roman Catholic Church...

I disclaim the whole nine yards...

Why argue against an assumed entity ...

that has no Biblical reason for it's

existence in the word of God...

When Jesus comes

He will divide the sheep from the goats.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust,

let him be unjust still: and

he which is filthy,

let him be filthy still: and

he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and

he that is holy,

let him be holy still.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and

my reward is with me,

to give every man according

as his work shall be.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they

that do his commandments,

that they may have right to the tree of life, and

may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and

sorcerers, and

whoremongers, and

murderers, and idolaters, and

whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.

I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

And let him that heareth say, Come.

And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the

water of life freely.

___

God does not have an exclusive Church in Rome Italy..

His body ( of which Jesus Christ is the Head) is made up of ...

"whosoever will, let him take the

water of life freely. "

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