Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 670265 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

OldJG

Rockford, IL

#474504 Sep 2, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
If it suits you then you can keep on pretending that a Jew came to earth to save ONLY Christians.
It's YOUR game ... but you won't convince me that your game is worthy of following ... as I believe all religions are based on game-playing philosophies of no value whatsoever.
Romans 5:7-10, 7 "For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life."

Since: Sep 09

Port Coquitlam, Canada

#474505 Sep 2, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
My Savior is Jesus Christ. Who's yours?
If you OWN the Jewish trade-MARK ... you best start praying to Jehovah and as HE is the source of ONLY Judaism.

Theology is silly.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#474506 Sep 2, 2013
PROPOSITION: Is Christian Baptism sacramental and regenerational or is it merely a symbol?

FACT: The vast majority of Christians (i.e. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.) believe that Baptism is regenerational -- that is to say, that the Sacrament itself transforms the person by "water and the Word," (cf. Eph 5:26) thus adopting that person into the Body of Christ and making that person a participant in the very same Sonship which Christ Himself enjoys with the Father (Romans 8:15-17, Galatians 4:6-7).

FACT: From earliest times, literally every Church Father and Christian bishop, as well as every orthodox Christian scholar until the Protestant reformation, understood Baptism as regenerational. This included Martin Luther and most of the Protestant reformers who followed him.

FACT: Yet, despite this, there are several Christian groups which deny that Baptism is regenerational, holding instead that it is merely an outward sign or symbol of one's inner faith in Christ. In this, they maintain that it is one's personal acceptance of Christ that matters; and that Baptism is no more than a ceremony in which one publicly proclaims and displays one's faith. Indeed, these same Christian groups believe that the doctrine of Baptismal regeneration is a corruption of what the Apostles preached, reducing the significance of this supposedly "symbolic ceremony" to the level of "magic" or "superstition." In this, they hold that only personal faith in Christ is of any importance and that "sprinkling water on someone's head" does absolutely nothing in and of itself.

Cont.

Since: Sep 09

Port Coquitlam, Canada

#474507 Sep 2, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
When did I say if a priest throws water on me I'm saved? I just quoted St. Paul who said we are baptized into Christ.
How can Catholics be baptized into Judaism's Christ when according to the Jews the REAL Christ has not yet materialized on earth even for the first time?

Theology is a whirlpool of stupidity.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#474508 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
If joining the church provides salvation I will kiss your rotten Roman rump. No one is saved as a group. No one.
<quoted text>
How do you become part of the body of Christ if you are not first saved? You told us joining the church provides salvation.
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ."
"Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death? "
This is my post and your answer to my post. Where in my post regarding salvation did I mention baptism. You said the church provides salvation and then quoted Scripture without providing chapter and verse. Why?

Since: Sep 09

Port Coquitlam, Canada

#474509 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Romans 5:7-10, 7 "For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life."
I understand you relate to that Catholic-approved drivel.

I don't relate to ANY religious drivel ... including yours.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#474510 Sep 2, 2013
Yet, can this position be correct? Well, to see, let's turn to the Scriptures themselves.

First of all, it must be said that there are many verses of Scripture which give the proponents of "symbolic Baptism" a great deal of trouble. These include:

1 Peter 3:21-22 --- "This prefigured Baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for a clear conscious, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ ..."

Acts 2:38 -- "Peter said to them,'Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' "

Mark 16:16 -- "Whoever believes and is Baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."

So, aside from one's personal faith, the act of Baptism itself appears to be very important indeed. Those who hold that Baptism is merely symbolic cannot ignore this if they wish to take Scripture seriously.

Yet, let's look at this issue from another angle. For example, as we've already seen in Acts 2:38, Baptism is clearly associated with the forgiveness of sins:

"Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Now, this being the case, one cannot avoid seeing a connection between Baptism and Jesus' healing miracles -- miracles which He almost always associated with the forgiveness of sins. For example, in Mark 2:3-12 we read:

"They came bringing him a paralytic carried by four men. Unable to get near Jesus because of the crowd, they opened the roof above him. After they had broken through, they let down the mat on which the paralytic was lying. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic 'Child, your sins are forgiven.' Now some of the scribes were sitting there asking themselves,'Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming. Who but God alone can forgive sins?' Jesus immediately knew in His mind what they were thinking to themselves, so He said,'Why are you thinking such things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven" or to say "Rise, pick up your mat and walk?" But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth'-- He said to the paralytic,'I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home.' He rose, picked up his mat at once, and went away in the sight of everyone."

So, from this, we can clearly see that the Scriptures draw a connection between Jesus' miracles and the forgiveness of sins. So, why do I bring this up?:-) Because it forces us to ask a very significant question:

Cont.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#474511 Sep 2, 2013
QUESTION: What was the source of Jesus' miracles? Did the Lord's miracles emanate from Jesus Himself, being direct acts of His Divine, creative authority, or were they produced merely by the individual's personal faith in Jesus? Was it the individual's faith, and only the individual's faith, which brought about the miracle (i.e. a mystical, "psychosomatic" response)? Or was it something more?

And, indeed, the answer to this question is all-important to one's view of Baptism. If Jesus' miracles came about through His own power bestowed upon an individual, then Baptismal regeneration is certainly possible. Yet, if it was merely the person's faith in Jesus which cured them, then Baptism as a symbol makes perfect sense.

And, indeed, at first glance this seems to be the case. After all, how many times did Jesus say to those He cured "Thy faith has healed thee" or "Thy faith has made thee whole" ?

Therefore, can we not say that these miracles, like Baptism itself, are merely the product of the person's faith?

No.:-) No, we cannot. Because, if we turn to Mark 5:25-34, we see that it was not merely the person's faith, but also power emanating from Jesus which brought about these miracles.

"There was a woman afflicted with hemorrhages for twelve years. She had suffered greatly at the hands of many doctors and had spent all that she had. Yet she was not helped but only grew worse. She had heard about Jesus and came up behind Him in the crowd and touched His cloak. She said,'If I but touch His clothes, I shall be cured.' Immediately, her flow of blood dried up. She felt in her body that she was healed of her affliction. Jesus, aware at once that POWER HAD GONE OUT FROM HIM, turned and asked,' Who has touched my clothes?'....The woman, realizing what had happened to her, approached in fear and trembling. She fell down before Jesus and told Him the whole truth. He said to her,'Daughter, your faith has saved you.' "

Ah! So, it was not merely this woman's faith. Rather, it was the woman's faith in combination with a very real power bestowed by Jesus. Thus, how can we say that Baptism is any different???

For example, would the proponents of "symbolic Baptism" suggest that the Lord's power to heal was somehow "magical" or "superstitious"? I doubt they would.:-) Yet, that is exactly what they say in regard to Baptismal regeneration.

Yet, didn't Jesus commission His disciples to Baptize in His name (Matt 28:19)? Just as he commissioned them to heal and cast out demons in His name, right?:-)

Cont.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#474512 Sep 2, 2013
So, then, if Jesus' miracles (and those of His disciples) were acts of regeneration, so is His Sacrament of Baptism. Indeed, it cannot be otherwise, UNLESS

(a) One wishes to say that Jesus possessed no personal power to heal or perform miracles, but that these miracles were merely "psychosomatic" responses from those who believed in Him, OR...

(b) Despite Mark 2:1-12, etc., Jesus' healing miracles had no connection to the forgiveness of sins (and, thus, Jesus made people physically whole while leaving them spiritually alienated from the Father -- a ridiculous proposition).

Yet, if one takes either of these positions, one must also be willing to ignore the Scriptures (viz. Mark 2:1-12 & Mark 5:30).

As for the orthodox Christian understanding of Baptism (that of Baptismal regeneration), we recognize that Christ still touches people through the ministry of His Church. In this, we recognize that two things are necessary for salvation:

(1) Christ's free offer of salvation, and ...

(2) Our willing acceptance of this free offer of salvation.

If this were not the case (i.e. if #2 above was not necessary), then everyone who ever existed would have been automatically saved when Jesus died on the Cross (1 Tim 2:4). And it is in the realm of #2 which our faith comes in.

Yet,#1 is also an intimate reality for those of us who understand the Traditional doctrine of Baptismal regeneration. In this, Christ does not merely offer us salvation through a promise made 2000 years ago. Rather, He offers it to us in personal intimacy through the Sacrament of His Church. And, through this Sacrament, He touches us directly, just as He directly touched the paralytic and the woman with the hemorrhage. And, thus, in Baptism, we have

(1) Christ's healing power, through the ministry of His Body (the Church), touching us and making us whole, and ...

(2) Our faith in Christ moving us to accept this healing power.

And this is how Christ takes us unto Himself.

So, according to the Scriptures, Baptism is regenerational, sacramental, and intrinsic to one's acceptance of Christ. For, as the Lord says, it cannot be otherwise:

"Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit." -- John 3:5

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a25.htm

Since: Sep 09

Port Coquitlam, Canada

#474513 Sep 2, 2013
The Jehovah's Witnesses pray to the right god ... yet they refer to their selves as Christians ... the only real ones by the way.

Within all theology Jehovah is the god of the Jews ... NOT Christians.

That's what happened to the J.W.s when they USED the new testament rather than sticking to the old testament where Jews belonged.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#474514 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
<quoted text>
Try answering the question. Don't answer your own question or answer a question I did not ask. Here is the question AGAIN....
Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
My Savior is Jesus Christ. Who's yours?
Again. No answer. The question is and remains......Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
Clay

United States

#474515 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Cly, you are nothing more than a lying sack of gas. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your primitive arrogance. Why "REFORMATION"? Because your moronic statue mary worshiping pagan low-lifes corrupted what Jesus taught to fit a foreign theology directly from hell itself. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play. LOL LOL Go back to the hole you crawled out of and kiss a statue, eat a cracker and somehow convince yourself you are a "Christian".
A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem, is an adherent of Islam.
Lol. So how else are ya?
Look, you're probably a nice grandpa and husband. But you are no authority on the scriptures. What you say we should believe, is immaterial. Men like you have appeared in every decade since Christ and you'll be around til the end. You don't preach the same word of God as the Apostles. Thats the truth.
.. And the amount of forced stupidity one has to embrace to be one of you is mind blowing.

You guys hamper our war with Satan. We're trying to block his lies from entering our culture and we've got you fanatics jumping up and down trying to be popes and derailing our mission. Now scram, we got real work to do.

Since: Sep 09

Port Coquitlam, Canada

#474516 Sep 2, 2013
The Catholics and the Jehovah's Witnesses refer to each other's groups as cult ... and to their own as TRUTH.

I suggest that such ignorant humans are in need of extensive therapy from the examples set by non-human animals.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#474517 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
If joining the church provides salvation I will kiss your rotten Roman rump. No one is saved as a group. No one.
<quoted text>
How do you become part of the body of Christ if you are not first saved? You told us joining the church provides salvation.
<quoted text>
This is my post and your answer to my post. Where in my post regarding salvation did I mention baptism. You said the church provides salvation and then quoted Scripture without providing chapter and verse. Why?
St. Paul didn't include chapter and verse when he wrote this.

Since: Sep 09

Port Coquitlam, Canada

#474518 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
<quoted text>
Try answering the question. Don't answer your own question or answer a question I did not ask. Here is the question AGAIN....
Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
<quoted text>
Again. No answer. The question is and remains......Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
They have a simple answer for that question. He's a Jewish pope converted to Catholicism.

Jews can't be saved unless they first become Catholic. Only then will Jesus welcome them into heaven.

OH ... I forgot ... Jesus can't BE in heaven as Jews are not welcome unless they believe in Catholicism.

Silly people!
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#474519 Sep 2, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
Yet, can this position be correct? Well, to see, let's turn to the Scriptures themselves.
First of all, it must be said that there are many verses of Scripture which give the proponents of "symbolic Baptism" a great deal of trouble. These include:
1 Peter 3:21-22 --- "This prefigured Baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for a clear conscious, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ ..."
Acts 2:38 -- "Peter said to them,'Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' "
Mark 16:16 -- "Whoever believes and is Baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."
So, aside from one's personal faith, the act of Baptism itself appears to be very important indeed. Those who hold that Baptism is merely symbolic cannot ignore this if they wish to take Scripture seriously.
Yet, let's look at this issue from another angle. For example, as we've already seen in Acts 2:38, Baptism is clearly associated with the forgiveness of sins:
"Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Now, this being the case, one cannot avoid seeing a connection between Baptism and Jesus' healing miracles -- miracles which He almost always associated with the forgiveness of sins. For example, in Mark 2:3-12 we read:
"They came bringing him a paralytic carried by four men. Unable to get near Jesus because of the crowd, they opened the roof above him. After they had broken through, they let down the mat on which the paralytic was lying. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic 'Child, your sins are forgiven.' Now some of the scribes were sitting there asking themselves,'Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming. Who but God alone can forgive sins?' Jesus immediately knew in His mind what they were thinking to themselves, so He said,'Why are you thinking such things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven" or to say "Rise, pick up your mat and walk?" But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth'-- He said to the paralytic,'I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home.' He rose, picked up his mat at once, and went away in the sight of everyone."
So, from this, we can clearly see that the Scriptures draw a connection between Jesus' miracles and the forgiveness of sins. So, why do I bring this up?:-) Because it forces us to ask a very significant question:
Cont.
Acts 2:38, "Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Is this the way you were baptized?

Not ever....NEVER...NEVER...NEVER does the Bible tell us we are saved by baptism. NEVER!!!!

If baptism saves......why the cross? Why did Jesus have to die on the cross. Why did God require a perfect sacrifice for our sins and that perfect sacrifice was the blood of His Son.

Hebrews 9:22, "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."

When you tell the world baptism saves you make God a liar and reveal yourself to be a pagan destined for hell. Not my words but God's words......read

Galatians 1:8-9, 8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#474520 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
<quoted text>
Try answering the question. Don't answer your own question or answer a question I did not ask. Here is the question AGAIN....
Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
<quoted text>
Again. No answer. The question is and remains......Is your Savior a Jew or a pope?
Well, I only have one answer and I already gave it to you.

Are you a member of the KKK or the Aryan Nations?
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#474521 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Cly, you are nothing more than a lying sack of gas. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your primitive arrogance. Why "REFORMATION"? Because your moronic statue mary worshiping pagan low-lifes corrupted what Jesus taught to fit a foreign theology directly from hell itself. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play. LOL LOL Go back to the hole you crawled out of and kiss a statue, eat a cracker and somehow convince yourself you are a "Christian".
A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem, is an adherent of Islam.
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol. So how else are ya?
Look, you're probably a nice grandpa and husband. But you are no authority on the scriptures. What you say we should believe, is immaterial. Men like you have appeared in every decade since Christ and you'll be around til the end. You don't preach the same word of God as the Apostles. Thats the truth.
.. And the amount of forced stupidity one has to embrace to be one of you is mind blowing.
You guys hamper our war with Satan. We're trying to block his lies from entering our culture and we've got you fanatics jumping up and down trying to be popes and derailing our mission. Now scram, we got real work to do.
You said, quote, "You guys hamper our war with Satan. We're trying to block his lies from entering our culture and we've got you fanatics jumping up and down trying to be popes and derailing our mission. Now scram, we got real work to do." End quote.

You cannot hamper a war with satan if you are satan. And you are!!! You can't fight yourself. And scram. Never. You are of your father.....the Devil. Your work is leading the lost to eternal death and destruction.

John 8:44, "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#474522 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Acts 2:38, "Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Is this the way you were baptized?
Not ever....NEVER...NEVER...NEVER does the Bible tell us we are saved by baptism. NEVER!!!!
If baptism saves......why the cross? Why did Jesus have to die on the cross. Why did God require a perfect sacrifice for our sins and that perfect sacrifice was the blood of His Son.
Hebrews 9:22, "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."
When you tell the world baptism saves you make God a liar and reveal yourself to be a pagan destined for hell. Not my words but God's words......read
Galatians 1:8-9, 8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
""This prefigured Baptism, which saves you now."
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#474523 Sep 2, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
If joining the church provides salvation I will kiss your rotten Roman rump. No one is saved as a group. No one.
<quoted text>
How do you become part of the body of Christ if you are not first saved? You told us joining the church provides salvation.
<quoted text>
This is my post and your answer to my post. Where in my post regarding salvation did I mention baptism. You said the church provides salvation and then quoted Scripture without providing chapter and verse. Why?
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
St. Paul didn't include chapter and verse when he wrote this.
Didn't you tell us the Roman Catholic church wrote the Bible? Yes, I am sure of it. You told us all the authors of the Bible were Roman Catholics. Are you sure your Roman Catholic church didn't add numbers?

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