Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

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#465695
Jul 25, 2013
 
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
You said salvation happens "At the moment of belief".
To support that statement you quoted: Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Tell me that this verse says not that the devils also believed...
Then there is the verse I quoted on demons believing: Mt 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Tell me these demons did not only believed, but that they knew that Jesus is the Son of God...
Tell me that these demons did not "fill the bill" regards salvation happening, as you said, "at the moment of belief...
Wrong, I did not quote James 2:19 to support my belief of receiving Eternal life at the moment of belief. You are very confused. I supplied that verse bases on what you wrote, and then explained why verses like John 3:16 and James 2:19 are not the same.

“Free gift means FREE”

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#465696
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I would never disagree with the early Christian writers on Dogma and sacred teachings from the Apostles.
Osas7 wrote:
<quoted text>I can point out quite a few things, where you wouldnt agree with early writers. Are you Premill like Irenaeus and Martyr?

“Free gift means FREE”

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#465697
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never told us what Books are Biblical. The Catholic and Orthodox can disagree on Biblical canon.
Jesus DID tell us about salvation.
You, Oldg, and Chuck believe in Sola Fide. Preston and Confrint do not.
One of you are guilty of changing the word of God. I don't want to incite a fight here.
I want you to answer this question: If someone changes the Word of God to go against what Christ willed, are they still 'saved'?
Where the major divide is, concerning the Canon, is the OT. Now, look what Jesus said in Luke 24:44

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

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#465698
Jul 25, 2013
 

Judged:

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1

OldJG wrote:
Papal Persecutions - Waldensians (1147-1658)
Meet the Popes of this Era
Boniface VIII Adultery and homosexual activity
Clement V Loved prostitutes
Paul II Homosexual, who liked bondage and lust. Died of a heart attack while being sodomized
Alexander VI Incest, adultery, illegitimate children, Orgies in the papal palace
The Waldenses or Vaudois were French Protestants in the Piedmont Valley region of southern France and northern Italy. By the middle ages, the church was filled with darkness and superstition. Around the year 1000, some people, notably Berengarius, boldly preached the primitive gospel truths and separated themselves from the Roman church. He was succeeded by Peer Bruis who wrote a book called Antichrist.
By the year 1140, there was a large number in the reformed movement, and their popularity alarmed the pope, prompting him to gather scholars to write against their doctrines and to ask several princes to banish them from their dominions.
By 1147 Peter Waldo of Lyons became a popular preacher among the reformed and they came to be known as Waldensians. Pope Alexander III excommunicated Waldo and his followers and asked the Bishop of Lyons to exterminate them from the face of the earth. So the persecution of the Waldensians began. This was the first time that the system of the Inquisition was used. Any open or anonymous accusation was sufficient evidence of guilt. The Dominician Order was formed from a monk named Dominic who was tasked with debating the Waldensians out of their beliefs. The Dominicans had been principally responsible for being the inquisitors in all future inquisitions.
:(

Did you watch those videos on YouTube

Israel of the Alps ..
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

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#465699
Jul 25, 2013
 
“...Christ the Lord, in whom the entire revelation of the most high God is summed up (see 2 Corinthians 1:20; 3:16–4:6), having fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips the Gospel promised by the prophets, commanded the apostles to preach it to everyone as the source of all saving truth and moral law, communicating God’s gifts to them. This was faithfully done: it was done by the apostles who handed on, by "oral preaching", by their example, by their dispositions, what they themselves had received—whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or by coming to know it through the prompting of the Holy Spirit”(Vatican II, Constitution on Divine Revelation, 7).
Chuck

Dublin, OH

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#465700
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never told us what Books are Biblical. The Catholic and Orthodox can disagree on Biblical canon.
Jesus DID tell us about salvation.
You, Oldg, and Chuck believe in Sola Fide. Preston and Confrint do not.
One of you are guilty of changing the word of God. I don't want to incite a fight here.
I want you to answer this question: If someone changes the Word of God to go against what Christ willed, are they still 'saved'?
I don't teach the Word of God so changing and believing what the Word of God means are two different things. Therefore, I'm not guilty of changing anything. You're still an idiot.

“Greatest Love”

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#465701
Jul 25, 2013
 
atemcowboy wrote:
good morning
Ros
Good morning ..unless y our mean the other Rose..But then Good morning anyway :)
Chuck

Dublin, OH

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#465702
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never told us what Books are Biblical. The Catholic and Orthodox can disagree on Biblical canon.
Jesus DID tell us about salvation.
You, Oldg, and Chuck believe in Sola Fide. Preston and Confrint do not.
One of you are guilty of changing the word of God. I don't want to incite a fight here.
I want you to answer this question: If someone changes the Word of God to go against what Christ willed, are they still 'saved'?
Lets say I die a true born again believer who was even baptized. I don't believe we need to be baptized to go to Heaven but if I'm wrong do you think that would keep me out of Heaven even though the fact is I was baptized?

Probably..you're that dumb

“Greatest Love”

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#465703
Jul 25, 2013
 
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
You said salvation happens "At the moment of belief".
To support that statement you quoted: Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Tell me that this verse says not that the devils also believed...
Then there is the verse I quoted on demons believing: Mt 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Tell me these demons did not only believed, but that they knew that Jesus is the Son of God...
Tell me that these demons did not "fill the bill" regards salvation happening, as you said, "at the moment of belief...
Look Oxbow

There is belief you have in your head..You are taught something ..say theology about Jesus ..You believe it.

But there is also the belief from your heart and soul..a movement within your spirit toward Him..a belief that it Was HIS SHED BLOOD is the ONLY source of salvation ...the only atonement needed to take your sins as,far from you as the east is to the west .

To say it's a feeling gives it less meaning maybe ...But it is your soul answering the CALLING of the SPIRIT ...the knowing that Christ is your only salvation..You REPENT and give your heart to Him

There is a big difference between knowing something and believing EITH your head

And believing and knowing in your heart and soul .
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#465704
Jul 25, 2013
 
Osas7 wrote:
<quoted text> Osas7 wrote:
<quoted text>I can point out quite a few things, where you wouldnt agree with early writers. Are you Premill like Irenaeus and Martyr?
I'm not really familiar with Premill. I'm sure if I knew the early writers personally, I would disagree on some of their cultural or personal opinions.
Sacred Dogma can not be changed. Those are teachings that came from the Apostles via Jesus Christ.

This proves all the more, that Christ would have set up an authority to determine disagreements.
You say He set up a Bible for us to open up and figure it out. We say He set up a teaching Magisterium that would not error. Otherwise, how would we know what truth is?
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#465705
Jul 25, 2013
 
Osas7 wrote:
<quoted text>Where the major divide is, concerning the Canon, is the OT. Now, look what Jesus said in Luke 24:44
There was no OT canon during the time of Luke and Jesus. Its proven fact that the OT canon came after Christianity.

That brings up an interesting topic. How do you know the Books in your Bible are the correct Books that God wills for Christianity? Someone had to decide on the canon of scripture. The Apostles never set up a canon, they set up a Church.

“Greatest Love”

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#465706
Jul 25, 2013
 

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June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist poem………
Test o' Fires
by Michael Gibb
Placing Satan in their handbags
they go 'a knocking on doors
where they're least expected
to trade the here-and-now
for everlasting obscurity.
All for a Book filled with the
occult, murderous intentions, and twisted realities
where truth is falsehood and falsehood is gospel
and a simple question
merits the death penalty.
With the pitter-patter of tiny feet
they approach with learned stealth
caring for nothing
but the opium high of testifying.
Overjoyed by rejection
yet bewildered by disbelief
their prayer orgies strafe the ethers
in long arches of arrogance.
"We have the truth!" they proclaim boldly
as legion more proclaim a differing story.
I read their Book filled with
insanity, conflict, and unnumbered depravities
then look into their junkie eyes.
Nothing that I say can appease
the Beast lurking behind the message
with peace on the lips
and dripping evil on the tongue.
Quickly closing the door
on the message of death
disguised in goodness,
a sigh of relief passes my lips.
The wolves of the forest
have been kept at bay
for, at least,
one more day.
Save it June for after your ordination as an atheist minister

I gave you the link

You can start your own church ...just like the other atheists,.

Nit a religion. REALLY ??

Always felt that it was...it is churches and all.
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#465707
Jul 25, 2013
 
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets say I die a true born again believer who was even baptized. I don't believe we need to be baptized to go to Heaven but if I'm wrong do you think that would keep me out of Heaven even though the fact is I was baptized?
Probably..you're that dumb
God will determine if you're going to Heaven, I won't.

If someone changes the word of God, do you still believe they are saved?
realist

Schaumburg, IL

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#465709
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I would never disagree with the early Christian writers on Dogma and sacred teachings from the Apostles.
UUUMMM Clay boy.The bible was written by dehydrated goat herders that were delusional from the hot desert heat.FYI.Your welcome.

“Greatest Love”

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#465710
Jul 25, 2013
 

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Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
You said salvation happens "At the moment of belief".
To support that statement you quoted: Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Tell me that this verse says not that the devils also believed...
Then there is the verse I quoted on demons believing: Mt 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Tell me these demons did not only believed, but that they knew that Jesus is the Son of God...
Tell me that these demons did not "fill the bill" regards salvation happening, as you said, "at the moment of belief...
Ok..Not yo be crude here

I can believe in my head that having relations,with my husband will give me a baby ..I can even keep a fertility chart and subscriber relations on a,certain day.

In my head,I know this will work

BUT UNTIL GOD SEES,FIT TO UNITE EGG AND SPERM. THERR will be no baby .

The same way I can reade books about Jesus..or even go to church and take the sacraments..

But until the Spirit calls and I believe the words on the page and in my heart.

That He died for ME ..Not withstanding my being unworthy..It's just words on a page..

When I get on my knees and surrender in BELIEF from my heart and soul ..then am I saved

Religion is an exercise ..Faith thru Grace is salvation
Chuck

Dublin, OH

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#465711
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
God will determine if you're going to Heaven, I won't.
If someone changes the word of God, do you still believe they are saved?
I am not changing the Word of God. I am not a pastor or a teacher so how am I changing it? You said I change...how?

Take osas...I'm not teaching it in a church as truth or to a group of people, it's just what I believe.

“Free gift means FREE”

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#465712
Jul 25, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not really familiar with Premill. I'm sure if I knew the early writers personally, I would disagree on some of their cultural or personal opinions.
Sacred Dogma can not be changed. Those are teachings that came from the Apostles via Jesus Christ.
This proves all the more, that Christ would have set up an authority to determine disagreements.
You say He set up a Bible for us to open up and figure it out. We say He set up a teaching Magisterium that would not error. Otherwise, how would we know what truth is?
Premill, is Premillenialism. Now, you make the claim of disciples / early writers/ church fathers knowing the Apostles, etc. So...I pointed out Irenaeus and Martyr being Premill. If you logic follows, then you should be Premill, yes???
Chuck

Dublin, OH

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#465713
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
God will determine if you're going to Heaven, I won't.
If someone changes the word of God, do you still believe they are saved?
I didn't ask you to determine.
I just asked your opinion.

If I die a true born again believer who was even baptized. I don't believe we need to be baptized to go to Heaven but if I'm wrong do you think that would keep me out of Heaven even though the fact is I was baptized?

How hard is a YES or No answer....

“Free gift means FREE”

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#465714
Jul 25, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
There was no OT canon during the time of Luke and Jesus. Its proven fact that the OT canon came after Christianity.
That brings up an interesting topic. How do you know the Books in your Bible are the correct Books that God wills for Christianity? Someone had to decide on the canon of scripture. The Apostles never set up a canon, they set up a Church.
I disagree, for the very fact of what Jesus said in Luke 24:44. Also, it's not a proven fact, that the OT Canon came "after" Christianity. Some speculate the OT Canon was closed at Jamnia, however, some say it was closed during the Hasmonean Dynasty. Look into that. I agree Christ established a Church, however, the word "church" means Ekklesia, which is not a isolated reference or code name for your Rcc. Also, if you do a word search, on a Bible search engine, the words "the church" are in reference to many established "church-es". The are many, but one, no different than the Trinity being 3 in 1.

“Greatest Love”

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#465715
Jul 25, 2013
 
hojo wrote:
“...Christ the Lord, in whom the entire revelation of the most high God is summed up (see 2 Corinthians 1:20; 3:16–4:6), having fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips the Gospel promised by the prophets, commanded the apostles to preach it to everyone as the source of all saving truth and moral law, communicating God’s gifts to them. This was faithfully done: it was done by the apostles who handed on, by "oral preaching", by their example, by their dispositions, what they themselves had received—whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or by coming to know it through the prompting of the Holy Spirit”(Vatican II, Constitution on Divine Revelation, 7).
I BELIevE you hojo.

The thing is sadly over the centuries Some of this devotion was lost amid politics ..power ..the CHU R CH itself and proclamations and influence in the things if the world..And the world's influence on it.
Made it much greater in the EIGHTIES R OF than in its,Spirit and the WORD.

WHEN corrupt men have influence in God's church it becomes as the TEMPLE.

IMO.
When men led by God pointed these deviations out..they were labelled heretics and excommunicated.

The inquisitors SHOUKD have been the ones excommunicated ..

The corrupt in the very ..should have been also.

Unholy men should never HAVR Bern in Peter's CHair.

A whole lot if deviation frontage original message you cited.

I don't think z Luther s started out to make a,NEW CHURCH.

HE and the others wanted the CHURVH they loved yo come back to Christ instead if politics .

Your church needed the Reformers ..But it took a long time for their influence to be felt in your CHURCH .

VATICAN 2 was,to be a,huge st e p in that reconciliation.

But tiresome I've seen post Herr ..it's message plus those of Pope John Paul ..fell on deaf ears

Just my opinion...

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