Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 574,044
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463121 Jul 17, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>I am not ASHAMED to admit that I want to have a close relationship with my Lord.
after all, I am not Robert.
How close is that?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#463122 Jul 17, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Never answered by you or Sera. Is Metropolitan Phillip wrong?
I was wrong about your block question.

Two Bishops could be in the same geographical or territory block, city etc . However they would not oversee the same district ( "diocese") territory and would not cross over. There would be 1 Bishop for each of the district ( "diocese") territories.

For instance The Antiochian immigrants to North America belong to the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, headed by His Eminence Metropolitan Philip Saliba. The Metropolitan is assisted by six bishops. The Greek immigrants formed the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America. It is composed of an Archdiocesan District -- New York and eight Metropolises: New Jersey, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Boston and Denver. It is governed by the Archbishop Demetrios of America and the Eparchial Synod of Bishops. The Synod of Bishops is headed by the Archbishop and comprised of the Bishops who oversee the ministry of the Metropolises. There are 8 Metropolitans (Bishops)'

On the "same block",one Bishop would not cross over into another Bishop's district ( "diocese").One Greek Bishop would not cross over into an Antiochan Bishop district ( "diocese") and vice versa. Not only that but one Greek Bishop would not cross over to another Greek Bishop.

Neither would the bishop of either district ( "diocese") deviate from the Orthodox faith. This is how the faith was preserved. The Bishops meet regularly, If a Bishop did deviate they would no longer be a part of the Orthodox Church. That is why we are not in communion with the nonChalcedonians. We would not sacrifice the Faith to increase numbers. You will find minor differences in Liturgy, etc. These are called "typica". If it is typica it is acceptable. You will find uniformity in theology and the practice of Orthodoxy. The proof is in the pudding.

The unity of both is in the faith. The Orthodox Church is a communion of self governing Churches, each administratively independent of the other, but united by a common faith and spirituality. Their underlying unity is based on identity of doctrines, sacramental life and worship, which distinguishes Orthodox Christianity

What is wrong is tying any of this to a rogue priest being defrocked and going into another Bishop's diocese to get a Church sanctioned. This is not how these Church's started. Neither did they start because of chaos and anarchy or disorganization in the Ortho Church. This is the Ortho's Church tradition and history
These churches didn't start because a rogue Ukranian got angry and left a Greek Orthodox Church to start an Ukranian Orthodox Church..These Churches have a long history that, again, is tied to collegiality and conciliarity. This is consistent. After all we separate Patriarchs (not one Pope) that oversee (with love) separate episcopates and do not cross into each others.

This is the false misleading and malicious impression that Storm was trying to present. Look at the consistent nature of the Ortho's beliefs and liturgy across the Centuries. Whatever organization they did worked because the faith was preserved. Our Church is still doing liturgies from the 4th Century that have hymns and prayers tied to the end of the 1st.

(continued)

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#463123 Jul 17, 2013
Continued from Above

As a side issue, research on Metro Phillip indicated many of his own people have reported that he refuses to listen to his former chancellors, he refuses to listen to his Brother Bishops on the Local Synod.
He refuses to be accountable to the Holy Synod. They describe him as a a tyrant and a bully.

One quote: "Instead of an American church which must be conciliar we see a structure that rivals the medieval papacy of the Roman church." Instead of an eye towards all of America we see a Bishop playing to a small ethnic club. Instead of a gentle Shepherd we see a promoter of self, a propagandist, a businessman, and sometimes a thug"

Antiochian magazine some in 1982 (or so) contained picture of Metropolitan Philip dressed in a cowboy suit, complete with bandana and six- with a six-shooter pointed at the reader, with the inscription "Pay your diocesan assessment, or else," or something similar."

The knowledgeable Orthodox I spoke to re Metropolitan Phillip describe his view as not alligned with Orthodoxy and that is a polite way of putting it.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463124 Jul 17, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>The point is that there are no reliable studies and I stress reliable. Do you realize the difficulty of doing a study of sexual abuse in a Church??? I am not going to specify all the factors that would have to be clarified including such things as ratio of incidence to reporting, access to records, unreported cases, definition of abuse, who are the investigators, who are the reporters, etc etc etc I said it is my belief. I dont have a study. Yours is a belief as well.
Well...excepting the fact that you are an insider....which most would not like to hear the actual facts either...

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#463125 Jul 17, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you go play with someone else's Bible? How about the Mormons or Muslims. They got a bible too, ya know?
Catholics follow the word of God- both written and oral. In fact, the CC told you the writings were the word of God, and now you stab them in the back with it.
And to boot, you only follow whatever you see in our written scriptures! You don't even follow what the Apostles taught about their writings! That its very bold of you.
It seems to me, Tiger, if you were really interested in what the Apostles taught when they explained their writings, you'd go to the writings of their students. None of you will dare venture there. It would destroy the SDA cult if they considered what the Apostles actually taught. Fundamental Christianity completely relies on ignoring what the first Christians understood.
Here is what the Disciple of John said about the Sabbath
"For if we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace. If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbaths, but fashioning their lives after the Lords day (Sunday), on which our lives ALSO rose with Him and through His death.....how shall we be able to live apart from Him?
It is monsterous to talk of Jesus Christ and still practice Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity"
Ignatius to the Magnesians
The Catholics teach Christ is the redeemer of the human Race, then have the gall to teach that He singled out only the Catholics to give them "traditions" that they say is necessary....that Bible alone is not enough!!!!!

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463126 Jul 17, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't even a coherent statement. You Roman Catholics in caps. lol Show respect for homosexual priest? Are you saying the church approves of homosexuality? It clearly does not. Pagans? I dont even know where you are attempting to go with that one.
As for hating Evangelicals with a passion no just rabid foaming at the mouth ones who attack incessantly with nonsense and show no respect and pass out going the hell cards at will and who show a profound ignorance of history or any willingness at all to learn anything or know anything about that which you attack.
So let me get this straight. If you decide to respect someone because they join in on attacks regardless of their belief they get a get to heaven pass? So you selectively apply your beliefs as condemnation only applies to those who say something. Selective hypocrisy. Good stuff! I want to know if the Idol and Mary worshipping Orthodox people who pray to dead people are going to heaven or not or is it just all Catholics and some Orthodox?
Pagans(ols) know far more about the truth of the ALL than you perverted religionists ever will.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463127 Jul 17, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>"So let me get this straight. If you decide to respect someone because they join in on attacks" He did not say that. At least wait a couple pages before you misquote.
Also "selectively apply your beliefs as condemnation only applies to those who say something". He clearly said that we have said something and we agree to disagree. Again is there no shame in misquoting and rewriting history?
Of course not. Relifionists justify the means by the ends...just like the inquisitionists did.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#463128 Jul 17, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt you even have a clue what happened in 1054 let alone what the two churches signed and agreed upon what transpired. It is a date often used in General terms. Cereleus and Humbert were probably a bad choice to begin with to meet. Humbert didnt excommunicate the whole Orthodox church. The real schism was the 4th Crusade and the Orthodox should also take some responsibility for that and its utter nonsense the Pope arranged it. Pope John Pauls visit to Greece said all that needs to be said about how grudges are held for something that happened long ago.
As a matter of record the Orthodox consented to reunion at Florence. Regardless, I have seen the scholarship of Herme. lol If you wish to trash on our church and ignore others who do it and ignore the many vicious attacks made by Protestants daily and join with the protestants as you have fine. You are hypocrites that is not a name it is a fact. Your church was not attacked, but you attacked ours. Give it a break that apologists are not inundated with the incessant claim of the Orthodox that you have the one true church. Great! Good for you. If you dont believe that Great! However in stating that if the churches united you would stay seperate and maintain the true faith one can only assume that you believe its the one true church. Does that same analogy apply to any Protestants? If you want to argue with just catholics and ignore the venom spewing from Proestants then do so, but then admit that you are purely biased. Both churches confess one holy apostolic church. I believe you are in schism you believe othrwise. So be it. Yes even an inkling of reunion from some Orthodox will bring cries of protest and seperation and heretics.
If you wish to call me a liar for stating what was said by Herme that he doesnt have to listen to Patriarch, God is the head of his church and if they stray he doesnt have to follow them. Well whose to say you wouldnt be the one straying? The Copts, the aremenians, and splinter groups say the same. All the Protestant groups believe they have the truth. Whats the point of having a church if everyone can have their individual truths? I stated I want reunion with truth from the beginning. That was my crime. I did not denegrate the Orthodox I pointed to what your Patriarchs were saying and what was agreed upon. This sent Herme into a tirade who did not look or bother to read. Just as was provided with the divisions of Orthodox from Orthodox who acknowledge your big division and authority issues. You cant hold an ecumenical council because you are not unified. You have Bartholemew and former Alexis of Russia accusing each of the Ceasar popism. Everbody is so busy being equal you cant decide anything even whose in charge. I vote for Herme. lol God is the head of the church but the church has never been a free for all and it was never a poll taken by the individual groups and if you dont agree then your not Orthodox. What was agreed upon at the talks and why was interesting to me. You never had any interest in even knowing. You have nothing left to learn. You know it all. I agree. God Bless those who seek unity in truth with prayer, contemplation and clearing up misconceptions, laguage barriers and sharing documents nver shared. God Bless those who humbled themseleves and agreed to talk, share and seek. The church has her dissedents. However the Orthodox internal issues is no secret. Roca is already divided. Hilarion left the Ravenna conference over interal Orthodox disputes not over what was being discussed.
Since I confronted you directly with your lie and gave the post number for all to see, I do not have to address any of the rest of your twisted post. I clearly showed your lack of knowledge of Church history in your comments re disagreeing with the Patriarchs. I do believe given these two factors that the Catholic Church is best for you.Its a perfect fit.

Since: Sep 09

Fraser Lake, Canada

#463129 Jul 17, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
agree with you june
this life is full of sacred serecy never revealed by earthly man or earthly evidences
Oh yes ... especially the sacred secrecy of why babies have to suffer and die from starvation related diseases because Adam and Eve sinned.

And don't forget the secrecy of why non-human animals have to suffer when they don't have the wherewithal TO sin.

Religion is silly!

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463130 Jul 17, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
if there are no reliable studies, then why are you saying sexual abuse is more so in the CC than the Orthodox?
(btw, there are lots of reliable studies)
Please do produce a study that conflicts with this statement...we are ALL ears!

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#463131 Jul 17, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well...excepting the fact that you are an insider....which most would not like to hear the actual facts either...
Exactly but there is little chance of this getting through. This is THE Study to cite for some Caths here chiefly our Tales from the Dark Side of Catholicism man, Storm.His philosophy seems to be what do I have to know what the methodology of a study to test its reliability? Again, why do I have to know Church history to change it to something that backs me up.
truth

Perth, Australia

#463132 Jul 17, 2013
Lucifer know all human weakness then complain to whom?

it is written
temtation
Did Jesus Christ been temted?
yes
then
it is written
God can hear prayers any time.
You can't hide nothing.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Since: Sep 09

Fraser Lake, Canada

#463133 Jul 17, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Pagans(ols) know far more about the truth of the ALL than you perverted religionists ever will.
I don't believe that at all. Religion is all based on fantasy, and if one group of truth-claimers just happened to hit the bulls eye of truth ... they wouldn't have a clue that it had happened, as fantasy shoots blanks from the darkness of human ignorance.

Human religionists are simply arrogant in their claims of knowing truth.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463135 Jul 17, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly but there is little chance of this getting through. This is THE Study to cite for some Caths here chiefly our Tales from the Dark Side of Catholicism man, Storm.His philosophy seems to be what do I have to know what the methodology of a study to test its reliability? Again, why do I have to know Church history to change it to something that backs me up.
You do not. You simply have to have the actuality as it is. Reality is reality. Religions come and go...fools do it at a quickened rate...those that understand the difference prevail.

“HAVE A BLESSED ”

Since: Aug 08

New Year

#463136 Jul 17, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt you even have a clue what happened in 1054 let alone what the two churches signed and agreed upon what transpired. It is a date often used in General terms. Cereleus and Humbert were probably a bad choice to begin with to meet. Humbert didnt excommunicate the whole Orthodox church. The real schism was the 4th Crusade and the Orthodox should also take some responsibility for that and its utter nonsense the Pope arranged it. Pope John Pauls visit to Greece said all that needs to be said about how grudges are held for something that happened long ago.
As a matter of record the Orthodox consented to reunion at Florence. Regardless, I have seen the scholarship of Herme. lol If you wish to trash on our church and ignore others who do it and ignore the many vicious attacks made by Protestants daily and join with the protestants as you have fine. You are hypocrites that is not a name it is a fact. Your church was not attacked, but you attacked ours. Give it a break that apologists are not inundated with the incessant claim of the Orthodox that you have the one true church. Great! Good for you. If you dont believe that Great! However in stating that if the churches united you would stay seperate and maintain the true faith one can only assume that you believe its the one true church. Does that same analogy apply to any Protestants? If you want to argue with just catholics and ignore the venom spewing from Proestants then do so, but then admit that you are purely biased. Both churches confess one holy apostolic church. I believe you are in schism you believe othrwise. So be it. Yes even an inkling of reunion from some Orthodox will bring cries of protest and seperation and heretics.
If you wish to call me a liar for stating what was said by Herme that he doesnt have to listen to Patriarch, God is the head of his church and if they stray he doesnt have to follow them. Well whose to say you wouldnt be the one straying? The Copts, the aremenians, and splinter groups say the same. All the Protestant groups believe they have the truth. Whats the point of having a church if everyone can have tthemseleves and agreed to talk, share and seek. The church has her dissedents. However the Orthodox internal issues is no secret. Roca is already divided. Hilarion left the Ravenna conference over interal Orthodox disputes not over what was being discussed.
Dust

You BELUEVE John Paul is a SAINT

Me too

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

We believe the same truth all translations

He believed we should be united ..never calling us anything but Christian

The main purpose of the VATICAN COUNCIL was was to reject the idea that Christ's Church rested SOLEY within the REV.

IT SAYS SO

http://vatican2voice.org/6unity/restore_unity...

You pray as you do..we pray as we do .

If we are Saved by belief in the same Lord Jesus who Said

IT IS FINISHED

WE believe John 3:16 to be fully true.

Why are we fighting

Why do many if you see us as second class hand wavers ...or however we have been portrayed here.
On another forum I have been told that we MUST CONVERT or we really are not Christian

That is NOT YOUR BLESSED POPES position

He seemed to want to forget who started the fight and get on with evangelizing the world as ONE FAITH.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463137 Jul 17, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe that at all. Religion is all based on fantasy, and if one group of truth-claimers just happened to hit the bulls eye of truth ... they wouldn't have a clue that it had happened, as fantasy shoots blanks from the darkness of human ignorance.
Human religionists are simply arrogant in their claims of knowing truth.
A truly biased statement. Not really related to the actuality I stated at all...
Maybe I should have said knowledgeable heretics...but then again, you hate the word "knowledgeable also....as you seem to believe that ignorance is bliss.
contentWarning

AOL

#463138 Jul 17, 2013
.

Discerning EVIL SPIRITS in TV Preachers

http://youtu.be/14h0k0PAz1Y

.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#463139 Jul 17, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe that at all. Religion is all based on fantasy, and if one group of truth-claimers just happened to hit the bulls eye of truth ... they wouldn't have a clue that it had happened, as fantasy shoots blanks from the darkness of human ignorance.
Human religionists are simply arrogant in their claims of knowing truth.
You seem to know a lot of shit...
Let me ask you a very simple question....
When a bird poops, there is a white circle on the outside, and then a small black dot on the inside.
"WHAT" is the little black dot?

“HAVE A BLESSED ”

Since: Aug 08

New Year

#463140 Jul 17, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be doing a "pretty good job" of boasting, and bragging about the Orthodox Church and its history, yourself--as you believe it!........ I'm secure enough in my faith about Jesus Christs One True Apostolic Catholic Church to "defend it" against many non-catholics on this forum who have an anti-catholic agenda, to preach heresy and spread false and distorted teachings in an attempt to undermine, TRUE CHURCH HISTORY and the TRUE Interpretation of the Bible..........unsuccessfully, I might add)!!
CLAY

WE ARE ALL THE CHURCH OF CHRIST.

You BELUEVE John Paul is a SAINT
Me too
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
We believe the same truth all translations
He believed we should be united ..never calling us anything but Christian
The main purpose of the VATICAN COUNCIL was was to reject the idea that Christ's Church rested SOLEY within the REV.
IT SAYS SO
http://vatican2voice.org/6unity/restore_unity...
You pray as you do..we pray as we do .
If we are Saved by belief in the same Lord Jesus who Said
IT IS FINISHED
WE believe John 3:16 to be fully true.
Why are we fighting
Why do many if you see us as second class hand wavers ...or however we have been portrayed here.
On another forum I have been told that we MUST CONVERT or we really are not Christian
That is NOT YOUR BLESSED POPES position
He seemed to want to forget who started the fight and get on with evangelizing the world as ONE FAITH.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#463141 Jul 17, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>

The Bible is sufficient...
Hogwash!! Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is sufficient! NOWHERE!! You "fundies" have "made this up" just like you do everything else and have decided this "on your own" that it is sufficient. Jesus Christs One True (Universal-Catholic) Church came first!! Then the Bible over 350 years after the death of Christ. I/we as Catholics ALL know and believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God but it is not the ONLY truth that God chose to transmit HIS divine Word. The Early Church Fathers/the Catholic Church translated the letters documents and manuscripts from the Apostles! It was the Catholic Church that "wrote the bible"! The Catholic Church also translated it! Confirmed by what Paul said in I Timothy 3:15 that THE CHURCH (not the bible alone) is the pillar, pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH.

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