Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 678811 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Clay

Union, NJ

#457050 Jun 28, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>==========
Orthodox Liturgy is closest to the Liturgy the Early Church. The Catholic Church has had many revisions which have continued through the modern age.
1. REIGN OF CONSTANTINE Secular influences on liturgy starting in the reign of CONSTANTINE in the early part of the 4TH CENTURY, Research into Roman imperial court ceremonial reveals inescapable parallels in Church liturgy.
Once the Church had joined in partnership with the state, it was necessary to integrate the bishops etc into the Imperial status system ishops and other clerics began to enjoy the privileges and ceremonies of the imperial court and of high ranking officials.. Thus, the Pope was accorded some of the ceremonial privileges of the Emperor himself, such as having people kissing his foot. The bishops became entitled to wear the dress and insignia of the highest ranking Romans..
3 The Roman Liturgy changed from what we see in Justin Martyr to that of Gregory The change is radical, especially as regards the most important element of the Mass, the Canon.
4. BY AROUND 1000 AD, THE LITURGY OF ROME WAS A MIXTURE OF THE GREGORIAN LITURGY AND TWO VERSIONS FROM BEYOND THE ALPS, THE GELASIAN (ORIGINALLY FROM ROME) AND THE ANCIENT GALLICAN.
5.During the c10th the Papacy went through a bad period and the liturgical life of the city came close to extinction, saved only by devoted efforts in some of the Cluniac monasteries newly founded there.
6 WHEN A LITURGICAL REVIVAL TOOK PLACE AT THE END OF THE CENTURY, IT SHOWED DEVELOPMENTS THAT WERE FRANCO-GERMAN IN ORIGIN. This Franco-German influence is explicable in terms of partly of the Cluniac presence, but mainly of the efforts of the Saxons, Otto I (912-973) and Otto II (955-983),‘religious men’[p 76], who tried to reform the Papacy during their interventions in Italy and supplied liturgical books from beyond the Alps.
7 BUT IN THE LONG AND GRADUAL SUPPLANTING OF THE GALLICAN RITE THE ROMAN WAS ITSELF AFFECTED BY ITS RIVAL, SO THAT WHEN AT LAST IT EMERGES AS SOLE POSSESSOR IT IS NO LONGER THE OLD PURE ROMAN RITE, BUT HAS BECOME THE GALLICANIZED ROMAN USE THAT WE NOW FOLLOW
8 PRE-TRIDENTINE MASS The term Pre-Tridentine Mass here refers to the variants of the liturgical rite of Mass in Rome before 1570, when, with his bull Quo primum, Pope Pius V made the Roman Missal, as revised[1] by him, obligatory throughout the Latin-Rite or Western Church, except for those places and congregations whose distinct rites could demonstrate an antiquity of 200 years or more.
9 TRIDENTINE COUNCIL OF TRENT (1545 1563 1570, WHEN, WITH HIS BULL QUO PRIMUM, POPE PIUS V MADE THE ROMAN MISSAL, AS REVISED[1] BY HIM, OBLIGATORY THROUGHOUT THE LATIN-RITE OR WESTERN CHURCH, EXCEPT FOR THOSE PLACES AND CONGREGATIONS WHOSE DISTINCT RITES COULD DEMONSTRATE AN ANTIQUITY OF 200 YEARS OR MORE.
10 IN THE FACE ON THE ONE HAND OF THE ATTACK ON THE MASS BY THE PROTESTANTS, LUTHER (1483-1546) AND ZWINGLI (1484-1531), AND ON THE OTHER HAND OF THE ‘CHAOTIC STATE OF LITURGICAL PRACTICE’[P 117], THE COUNCIL OF TRENT (1545-1563) DETERMINED ON REFORM OF THE MISSAL AND THE BREVIARY
11 The Latin Tridentine Mass remained the standard eucharistic liturgy in the Roman Catholic Church in the West until the Second Vatican Council. In 1963, the Council adopted, by an overwhelming majority, the Constitution On Sacred Liturgy "SacrosantumConcilium Following Vatican II, Pope Paul VI instituted a new form of the Mass : THE “NEW MASS”,
12 MASS CATHOLIC 2011 UNDERGOING FIRST CHANGES IN 40 YEARS New translation will go into effect in Sep 17, 2011
Did the Orthodox mass change or not? You can't say its the "closest thing" and not be a hypocrite for condemning the Catholic Mass for changing.
Clay

Union, NJ

#457051 Jun 28, 2013
Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text>Say no more Clay....."ALMOST always on Sundays says it all! Believe the man "behind the curtain" after all "there's no place like home"
Does every Orthodox at every Orthodox Mass get the wine, or does it sometimes run out before the people in the back get any?
If it does, and they only get the Eucharist, does that mean their partaking is any less? Did they not receive Jesus Christ either way?
truth

Perth, Australia

#457053 Jun 28, 2013

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#457054 Jun 28, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's "we" in "WE BELIEVE"?
Christians Dan

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#457055 Jun 28, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~~
EVERY ONE KNOWS WHAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE REFORMATION BUT YOU ROMAN CATHOLICS...
God attempted bring about a revival ....to steer the Roman Catholic Church back to the Bible and truth...
You infidels rejected it...because you were too deeply embedded in your
Carnal minded domineering power hungry paganistic attitudes.
Remember this ...
God said
Gen_6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
God shortened mans days on earth because of sin.
JUST HOW MUCH LONGER (DO YOU THINK)HE WILL PUT UP WITH THE Roman catholic CHURCH
Amen Kay. Exactly as I have thought.

Nothing as big as the Reformation c..the distribution of bibles and the taking of them along with the non Catholic believers to the New,World..

Could have been so richly blessed..without GOD's hand in the whole thing.

Imo this country was,settledr by those wishing freedom of WORSHIP..at the core..

And we went on to be a great country out of which flowed missionaries and the Word ..via many sources.

And we also had the might to backup Israel in becoming and remaining a,country.

This was God's doing. And it was nit going to be done in the way it was by leaving God's words in the hands of the Vatican and the priests..not in God's timing anyway

They did spread the faith..But to the Spanish colonies..Imo God wanted it spread wider and faster....

My personal tt bought is that in the Vatican 2,and last three popes we have seen that return by the Catholic church. church To God's purpose for it .

All things work according to HIS plan..
truth

Perth, Australia

#457056 Jun 28, 2013
he ll=pillars o=1 +5=6
its not me who do that
dan

Omaha, NE

#457057 Jun 28, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if your argument is that God has it's own standards, and we don't know what those are, then anything can be God's standards. And quite possibly that God's standards are entirely arbitrary. Isn't it rather important that one discern what is or isn't according to God's standards? I thought that's what the Bible was for.
<quoted text>
Don't you have an expectation that the religion you chose to adhere to make rational sense? In fact, religious ideology should in theory make perfect sense, if it is applied by an omnipotent deity concerned about human well-being. Did God give humans the power to reason and be rational for no reason?
You want me to tell you "why" God did/does something/anything.

That's irrational. It presumes that I operate on the divine plane.

What I've provided is man attempting to explain the Divine (theology). What cannot be explained is "why" God does something. Only God knows why God does something. I can't explain that anymore than I can explain why you do something.

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#457058 Jun 28, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone's going to file a suit on this, and soon.
A SSA couple in a state that allows SSM will ask to be married in a Catholic Church, be turned down, and sue.
And that will wind up in front if SCOTUS also. I'm sure

On separation. Grounds.
Clay

Union, NJ

#457059 Jun 28, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Amen Kay. Exactly as I have thought.
Nothing as big as the Reformation c..the distribution of bibles and the taking of them along with the non Catholic believers to the New,World..
Could have been so richly blessed..without GOD's hand in the whole thing.
Imo this country was,settledr by those wishing freedom of WORSHIP..at the core..
And we went on to be a great country out of which flowed missionaries and the Word ..via many sources.
And we also had the might to backup Israel in becoming and remaining a,country.
This was God's doing. And it was nit going to be done in the way it was by leaving God's words in the hands of the Vatican and the priests..not in God's timing anyway
They did spread the faith..But to the Spanish colonies..Imo God wanted it spread wider and faster....
My personal tt bought is that in the Vatican 2,and last three popes we have seen that return by the Catholic church. church To God's purpose for it .
All things work according to HIS plan..
You can have credit for introducing people to Jesus Christ and performing great acts of charity during the last 400 yrs.
But Rose, Protestantism has sent humanity into 45,000 different Christian teachings. You can't convince me that that's what Jesus Christ willed.
You also don't get credit for Baptizing people out of the Catholic Church and into *insert protestant sect here*. Especially since the missionaries had to use deceit to do it, whether they were consciously aware of it or not.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#457060 Jun 28, 2013
THE WHOLE EARTH IS CRYING FOR THE DAY OF SWEET RELIEF FROM THE SIN THAT IS BEING COMMITTED UPON IT....

JESUS WARNED US ABOUT THE DAY WE ARE LIVIN IN....

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately,

saying,

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,

Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name,

saying,

I am Christ; and

shall deceive many.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars:

see that ye be not troubled:

for all these things must come to pass,

but

the end is not yet.

Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation,

and kingdom against kingdom: and

there shall be famines, and

pestilences, and

earthquakes, in divers places.


Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and

shall kill you: and

ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and

shall betray one another, and

shall hate one another.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and

shall deceive many.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound,

the love of many shall wax cold.

Mat 24:13 But

he that shall endure unto the end,

the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14 And

this gospel of the kingdom

shall be preached in all the world

for a witness unto all nations; and

then shall the end come.

___

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and

travaileth in pain together until now.

Rom 8:23 And not only they,

but ourselves also,

which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,

even we ourselves groan within ourselves,

waiting for the adoption,

to wit, the redemption of our body.


Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope:

but

hope that is seen is not hope:

for what a man seeth,

why doth he yet hope for?

Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not,

then do we with patience wait for it.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit

also helpeth our infirmities:

for we know not what we should pray for

as we ought:

but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with

groanings which cannot be uttered.

COMMENTARY BY F.B.. MEYER

Romans 8:18-30

Hoping for the Completed Redemption

Rom_8:18-30

Creation groans for freedom from the serpent’s trail. Like a captive maiden she sighs to be delivered from the curse which sin has brought upon her. The saints groan for the resurrection of the body and their full admission into the complete enjoyment of redemption. The Spirit also groans for the speedy accomplishment of God’s purposes-the salvation of the lost, the unity of the Church, and the advent of the Father’s kingdom. His yearnings express themselves through the prayers of the saints.
Sorrowful soul, take comfort from Rom_8:28! All things are working; there is no stagnation. They are working together, like the cogs of two wheels revolving in different directions. They are all working for good. The only condition is love on our part. Those who love God are loved by God, and all winds blow from the quarter of God’s love. And that love is a sure sign and token that they have been called; and if called, they may be sure that they are on the moving stairway which is bearing them up and on through successive stages to glory.
dan

Omaha, NE

#457061 Jun 28, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you ever get dizzy when you spin yarns such as you just come up with...here?
You've got more baloney with you than Lebanon..has...
I didn't "spin" it.

I excerpted someone's work and cited it.

I mean, it's not Matthew Henry, I know.
dan

Omaha, NE

#457062 Jun 28, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians Dan
OJG posted it and it looked like a creed.

Wondering what church's creed it was.

Do you recognize it as such?
dan

Omaha, NE

#457063 Jun 28, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly!!!! Ant knows it, he knows I know he knows, I know he knows I know he knows.....but he suffers from a severe case of egotism...he can't admit it to me...
Christ is just a person? Merely human?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#457064 Jun 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
You can have credit for introducing people to Jesus Christ and performing great acts of charity during the last 400 yrs.
But Rose, Protestantism has sent humanity into 45,000 different Christian teachings. You can't convince me that that's what Jesus Christ willed.
You also don't get credit for Baptizing people out of the Catholic Church and into *insert protestant sect here*. Especially since the missionaries had to use deceit to do it, whether they were consciously aware of it or not.
THERE YOU GO AGAIN WITH YOUR SELFISH CLAIM

OF

A MONOPOLY OF THE LOVE GRACE AND MERCY OF GOD...

yet ...

YOUR ( so called ) CHURCH TEACHES A FOREIGN GOSPEL AND

LIVES LIKE THE devil, himself...

propagating one myth and fable after another.

WITH NO SEMBLANCE OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST

AND TO ADD TO THE THE DECEITFULNESS OF IT ALL...

At the end of all you calthesentics and rituals is HOPELESSNESS.

YOU PRESENT NOTHING

THAT MAKES A PERSON'S

CALLING AND ELECTION SURE...

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence,

add to your faith virtue; and

to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6 And

to knowledge temperance; and

to temperance patience; and

to patience godliness;

2Pe 1:7 And

to godliness brotherly kindness; and

to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound,

they make you

that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and

cannot see afar off, and

hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren,

give diligence to make your calling and election sure:

for if ye do these things,

ye shall never fall:

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance

shall be ministered unto you

abundantly into the everlasting kingdom

of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent

to put you always in remembrance of these things,

though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#457065 Jun 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>

Line 3: I believe Apostolic succession isn't strictly Papal. Every Bishop ordained is involved in the continuity of Apostolic succession. edited for space
.
==========

It is a controverted question whether the bishops hold their jurisdiction directly from God or from the sovereign pontiff. The latter opinion, however, is almost generally admitted at the present day, for it is more in conformity with the monarchical constitution of the Church, which seems to demand that there should be no power in the Church not emanating immediately from the sovereign pontiff. Authors who hold the contrary opinion say that it is during the episcopal consecration that bishops receive from God their power of jurisdiction. But habitually before their consecration the bishops have already all powers of jurisdiction over their dioceses (Bargilliat, I, 442-445).

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#457066 Jun 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Does every Orthodox at every Orthodox Mass get the wine, or does it sometimes run out before the people in the back get any?
If it does, and they only get the Eucharist, does that mean their partaking is any less? Did they not receive Jesus Christ either way?
Hi Clay.To be honest,the arly Church had 2 practices. Some Churches used one form, some used both forms.far predominant though was 2 forms.The Orthodox acknowledges and respects the Catholic manner of providing the Eucharist. The only problem they would have is with the Eucharistic Ministers.

In the Orthodox Church,the read is broken and placed in the Wine in very small pieces. The priest then gives communion by dipping a spoon in the wine and giving the person bread that is soaked in the wine from a spoon.It never runs out.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#457067 Jun 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did the Orthodox mass change or not? You can't say its the "closest thing" and not be a hypocrite for condemning the Catholic Mass for changing.
Clay, my friend , there is no comparison between the Catholic Mass and the Orthodox Liturgy in the amount of changes that have been made. The Orthodox moved a hymn a Litany, or a procession, from one part of the Liturgy to another etc but even that stopped long ago. The last change would in the early centuries . I could provide that info if you wopuld like. Clay I dont mean to disrespect your Church. I have to counter when someone here calls it the One True Apostolic Church.
I do not evn put my own Church in that category, although strongly believe it is the right one for me and know its roots well. This is why I chose it.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#457068 Jun 28, 2013
who="Clay "
You can have credit for introducing people to Jesus Christ and performing great acts of charity during the last 400 yrs.
But Rose, Protestantism has sent humanity into 45,000 different Christian teachings. You can't convince me that that's what Jesus Christ willed.
You also don't get credit for Baptizing people out of the Catholic Church and into *insert protestant sect here*. Especially since the missionaries had to use deceit to do it, whether they were consciously aware of it or not.
**********

Clay, don't you get tired of that '45,000' bit? There ARE a number of independent Protestant churches, that is true, but the truth is that you could probably count the number of Protestant 'divisions' on your fingers. And those divisions generally are separated on very small variations...nothing that prevents our worshiping together.

In recent years a few 'modern (left) thinking' groups have fallen into 'tolerance'(some Presbyterian, Episcopal and Methodist), allowing homosexual participants, but these are not the norm of Christian churches, and they "have a form of godliness but deny the power of God", just as the Bible says.

And where did Jesus command the Apostles to "baptize them into the Catholic church"? If I found myself in a place where there were NO churches, and was able to convert those people with the Gospel, it would not be 'wrong' to baptize them myself.

And to what 'deceit' do you refer? There is nothing deceitful about telling men that if they repent and believe the Gospel, they will be saved. Scripture says that they "become a new creature".
There is nothing 'deceitful' about preaching the Gospel (which is the power of God) to men, then baptizing them.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, HE IS A NEW CREATURE: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

KayMarie
Clay

Union, NJ

#457069 Jun 28, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
THERE YOU GO AGAIN WITH YOUR SELFISH CLAIM
OF
A MONOPOLY OF THE LOVE GRACE AND MERCY OF GOD...
yet ...
YOUR ( so called ) CHURCH TEACHES A FOREIGN GOSPEL AND
LIVES LIKE THE devil, himself...
propagating one myth and fable after another.
WITH NO SEMBLANCE OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
AND TO ADD TO THE THE DECEITFULNESS OF IT ALL...
At the end of all you calthesentics and rituals is HOPELESSNESS.
YOU PRESENT NOTHING
THAT MAKES A PERSON'S
CALLING AND ELECTION SURE...
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence,
add to your faith virtue; and
to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And
to knowledge temperance; and
to temperance patience; and
to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And
to godliness brotherly kindness; and
to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound,
they make you
that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and
cannot see afar off, and
hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren,
give diligence to make your calling and election sure:
for if ye do these things,
ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance
shall be ministered unto you
abundantly into the everlasting kingdom
of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent
to put you always in remembrance of these things,
though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
I'm wondering why you pulled those verses out of 2Peter and bashed me over the head. They don't have anything to do with my earlier post.
I think its a sin to use sacred scripture like that. Don't you?

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#457070 Jun 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
You will align yourself with anyone in order to bring down the Catholic Church. Ox spends an amazing amount of time trashing both Orthodox and Catholic teachings. yesterday he put down the Eucharist and mocked our faith.
Yet, he says something about Catholics not getting the wine all the time and you high five him. wow
Where is your integrity?
I align myself with no one.I do not ha the need to bring down the catholic church or an other church for that matter.What I do feel the need for is to CORRECT the catholic church in their lies of being the Original Church.I know how they feel about the Eucharist,icons etc.They are in title to their beliefs.Who am I to judge them? Unlike the Catholic's here,I don't have the need to brag, boast and strut my stuff that I am the best.And for my integrity Clay,well I will let God judge that....Also, if your church does not give the wine out EACH AND EVERY SUNDAY to its people, then your church is NOT following tradition.PERIOD.And with that,I will high five anyone protestant for telling the truth as he did.

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