Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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“Credulity is not a virtue”

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#455930
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
I an not a linguist. But I suspect that the mind must be able to hold the concept before a word can be used to symbolize that concept, which eventually leads to its expression as a spoken and written language.
If you determine for yourself that you are unable to think in metaphors and allegories, then you are right, and the Bible is an unconnected set of words from beginning to end. Others don't see it that way though, and you will have a difficult proving it as a fallacy.
It's not a matter of understanding metaphor. I understand metaphors just fine. I'm not arguing that the Bible has to be interpreted literally rather than metaphorically. The problem is adding stuff to Genesis was wasn't put there, parable or no. If you want to say that Adam was supposed to understand that God meant "spiritual" death when that was never mentioned, then any part of the Bible can mean anything you want it to. Then it really would become an "unconnected set of words from beginning to end".

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#455931
Jun 24, 2013
 
who="New Age Spiritual Leader"
Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless."

**********
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

KayMarie
Human Being

Welsh, LA

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#455932
Jun 24, 2013
 
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the difference between fate and pre-destination?
wilderide:

Well they have been conflated in our society, so its more subjective.

Fate in the modern sense tends to be "fatalistic", in which there is no choice.(Kind of looking from the inside to outside.) A sort of resignation of free-will.

Pre-destined in the Biblical sense is more the result of choice.(Kind of looking from the outside looking inside.) A sense of achieving....

They are very distinct in my mind. But in our language conflated.

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#455933
Jun 24, 2013
 

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hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes! All of the Early Church Fathers were, in fact Catholic. It was the only Universal Christian Church around at that time!! In forming the Canon of Scripture in 382,393 and 397, the Fathers of the Church spent over 350 years to compile, gather and prayfully discern the letters, documents, parchments, and manuscripts handed down by Jesus Christ HIMSELF and the Apostles..... Trusting the "words of men" you say??? Yes--if you begin with the Protestant Reformation----BUT NOT AT ALL from the manuscripts and letters handed down by Jesus Christ Himself and the Apostles!! The Early Church Fathers were "directly" led by the Spirit of God, to AND IN the Spirit of TRUTH through Jesus Christ (again) through discernment, prayer,understanding contemplation AND most important---IN FULL and TOTAL AGREEMENT!!! Compare the aggregate COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH THE EARLY CHURCH FATHER in compiling and formulating in arriving at the TRUTH of the TRUE interpretation of the Bible -one and one one TRUE interpretation. Compare that the contradicting, inconsistent and conflicting "hodge-podge" of over 42,000 (different) bible only (editorialized) interpretations since the Reformations and it is easy to see why there exists NOTHING but 42,000 man-made "relative truth" opinions
Furthermore, the Catholic Church is not an "expansion" of ANYTHING "man-made", but came DIRECTLY from Jesus Christ HIMSELF, through the Apostles!
Bible only Protestantism is just another one of inconsistent contradicting, conflicting denominations that "did not come from God" but came from a (so-called enlightened) "self-appointed" editorial (interpreting minister) that claims to possess some form of truth, by just "making it up" as they go along!!!! Sola Scriptura was never believed by "anyone" until the 17th century and has absolutely "no basis" of biblical or historical truth to back up "anything that it teaches--or believes"! It is just an extension of the Protestant Reformation of "hodge-podge" denominations that started with Luther, then Zwingli, Wycliff, Hus, Waldo, Gasfort, beza, Cranmer, Farel, Hedio, Knox, Petri, Tyndale, and on and on and on to the 21st century. Now (here on topix) we have Confrinting, Orville, 4GVN, justachristian1,(you Jethro8) LTM, and every other self-appointed "relative truth" bible expert that interprets (or better yet mis-interprets the bible as well as the TRUTH of True Church History--ALL to their own confusion, demise, chaos and destruction!!!
Your church was once part of the Orthodox Church and broke from them in 1054 when your bIshop wanted to be in control of all the other Four Bishops....the world Catholic means UNIVERSAL NOT CATHOLIC AS IN YOUR CHURCH OF TODAY. Now why is it that you catholics dont get that.Is so simple and makes since...One Bishop breaks from 4 not the other way around....

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#455934
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not watch the video. I don't know who created it either. To me, the people who put a video together would have to be examined before I would consider what they are presenting.
Like I said earlier, there were ALWAYS people outside of the Church preaching what they thought was the will of the Lord. The Apostles wrote about them as early as 50 AD. Any group can pick up a scroll and form a religion. The Catholic Church didn't pick up the writings of the Apostles and form a Church based on what they read. The hierarchy was in place before the Apostle wrote one single line of the NT. The hierarchy hasn't dissipated throughout time. Its become more and more visible with each passing year.
There was no Catholic "church"...per your own Bible: Jesusí church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation. That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#455935
Jun 24, 2013
 
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
I like the term glints of "gold".
I used to do a little prospecting.(lol)
I generally use the term "intersecting points", when we reach some "shining" moments.
Keep digging...(I like it!)
:o)

I've thought about buying some "dirt" to do some home-propecting...."paydi rt", but decided against it, because it seems like only flakes are found and the price just doesn't meet my standards of a "good deal", although the 'entertainment' price may be a totally different endgame.

*shrugs*

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#455936
Jun 24, 2013
 
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
You imply time is only linear. It may not be, and we only perceive time in our brain that way(not to say this is good nor bad).
"Time - created by man, lived by man." - New Age

“Credulity is not a virtue”

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#455937
Jun 24, 2013
 
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
Well they have been conflated in our society, so its more subjective.
Fate in the modern sense tends to be "fatalistic", in which there is no choice.(Kind of looking from the inside to outside.) A sort of resignation of free-will.
Pre-destined in the Biblical sense is more the result of choice.(Kind of looking from the outside looking inside.) A sense of achieving....
They are very distinct in my mind. But in our language conflated.
Predestined necessarily negates any choice. The result of choice is simply that: a result, or a consequence. Fate and predestination are synonymous with each other.
Human Being

Welsh, LA

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#455938
Jun 24, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW - I also don't call murdering and killing whole villages - "The Beauty of God".
FYI - if you want to promote the selling points of the Bible, there isn't any. Why do I say this?
Well, because every trait that is in the Bible, can be acquired without any belief in any god. I don't need the Bible to tell me to love my neighbor. I also don't need it to tell me not to steal, murder, lie, etc.
I thank my parents for allowing me to be myself and to express these traits openly and with honesty.
Christianity is so egotistical, it believes that those "evil traits" are postively enforced. Again I disagree.
I find no positives in killing, "keeping the spoils for themselves" or other anti-commandments to be anything positive.
Why accept these horrendous acts as the "Beauty of God"?
Do you enjoy a good rumble?
New Age Spiritual Leader:

It is a difficult subject. But in short, there is conflict between good and evil. I hope you can agree here.

So in modern times, if we as a nation promote abortion(which I believe is evil, and you may( I hope) agree), aren't there going to be negative consequences for our nation as a whole, and this will move down to all the individuals within the nation?(We just project this problem back in history for the Jews in the O.T.)

I think yes.

Ready for the rumble

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#455939
Jun 24, 2013
 
who="wilderide"
He only had one human biological parent. That negates his being descended on both sides from the House of David. There isn't any room in the Hebrew prophetic texts for a "legal" parent.
And that is the least of the problems. He was still a demi-god, supposedly. He did't gather all the Jews back to Israel, rebuild the temple, or create world peace, among other things. And yes, the prophesies said the messiah would do all those things in his lifetime.
The problem stems from those in the early church who made Jesus into a demi-god in order to spread their sect/cult.

**********

Jesus is God. He needed one human parent to give Him the needed body of flesh.

Did you ever notice that the woman provides the flesh body for all of us? Your father provided a seed that can only be seen under a microscope, and in the following nine months the seed grows a body of flesh from her strength.(Ever look a grain of corn...then look at a stalk of corn with three full ears on it? The 'seed' carried the instructions, but mother earth filled up the 'body'.)

Where did you get that "in His lifetime"? Anyway, He lived forever, so that's OK. The Jews have been gathered back under Ezra and Nehemiah, and their temple rebuilt...and they rebelled and were scattered again...even as God promised would occur if they forsook Him.
Now, beginning in 1948 they have again returned to the Promised Land, and are still being gathered from all over the earth...their DNA being checked for assurance.

The Temple has been rebuilt twice...but destroyed again for the sinfulness of the Jews.

However, the Prince of Peace has brought the greatest Peace ever known to this earth. America has lived miraculously for most of two hundred years, because our forefathers trusted Him. The greatest time of peace is yet to come.(Read the last two chapters of Revelation.)

Real Christians live in peace RIGHT NOW. I have great peace...even when trouble surrounds me!

He LIVES, and He offers you real life. Just trust HIM.

KayMarie

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#455940
Jun 24, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="New Age Spiritual Leader"
Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless."
**********
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
KayMarie
uhm....this isn't Jesus speaking, this is Peter.

No wonder you enjoy playing the Telephone Game, you are usually the one distorting what was originally stated.

Let me make the statement again.

'Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless.'

The above post doesn't.

Just about anyone can make up something about someone and have others believe it. It happens all the time.

Unfortunately, for this statement, Jesus never said it, just like he never called himself "God".

Only men have given him these rewards - and no doubt, for their own personal "advancement".

Care to try again, but this time without trying to deceive others?
Human Being

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#455941
Jun 24, 2013
 
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me about it.
Even if two types of death were mentioned, that still doesn't specify what God meant. And let's say for the sake of argument that God meant "spiritual" death (and that Adam psychically understood this distinction). So if Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge, then Adam's spirit would die? What is the take-away lesson from that? Knowledge is evil, and ignorance is salvation?
wilderide:

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

You take a bite of poisonous fruit its going to kill you.
Take a bite of evil and it does the same thing.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

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#455942
Jun 24, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
Jesus is God. He needed one human parent to give Him the needed body of flesh.
Problem is, the Hebrew messiah was human.
Where did you get that "in His lifetime"?
It's all in the Hebrew Bible.
Anyway, He lived forever, so that's OK.
Well, except for the being dead part.
The Jews have been gathered back under Ezra and Nehemiah, and their temple rebuilt...and they rebelled and were scattered again...even as God promised would occur if they forsook Him.
Now, beginning in 1948 they have again returned to the Promised Land, and are still being gathered from all over the earth...their DNA being checked for assurance.
The Temple has been rebuilt twice...but destroyed again for the sinfulness of the Jews.
Evidently the Hebrew prophesies have yet to be fulfilled then.
However, the Prince of Peace has brought the greatest Peace ever known to this earth. America has lived miraculously for most of two hundred years, because our forefathers trusted Him. The greatest time of peace is yet to come.(Read the last two chapters of Revelation.)
Are you kidding? If you think the last two thousand years are "the greatest peace ever known" then you really need to study history. Give me a break. Even our own country has participated in wars, both internally and externally, for it's entire history. Is that what you call "peace"?
Real Christians live in peace RIGHT NOW. I have great peace...even when trouble surrounds me!
He LIVES, and He offers you real life. Just trust HIM.
KayMarie
Trust someone presented as a messiah, which is directly contradicted by the very authors of the texts that whose who ask me to trust say I should rely on?

That is so bizarre as to be surreal.
Human Being

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#455943
Jun 24, 2013
 

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wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Time is necessarily linear to us at least. You can argue whether God is subject to linear time or not, but whether God has free will or not is not the question. We, living in linear time (if indeed an alternative exists), either have free will or we don't. If God knows our fate in advance, then we don't. If we have free will, then God isn't omniscient, and as a consequence can't be omnipotent either.
But like I said before, there is very little in the Bible to suggest that God is omniscient anyway. There is much more Biblical evidence that God isn't.
wilderide:

Space is bent by gravity which causes us to perceive time, chemically in our brain, as a linear function....But that is beside the point.

Jesus referred to the Father knowing the time of the end, thus, God Knows, and this makes Him Omniscient. Just because God knows does not make mean that it interferes with anything within Creation, especially free-will.

God does not demand obedience, but lets us learn obedience, not to overcome or negate free-will, but let its fullest expression be made.

God does not disclose certain things, and this is one of them(You have to take that on faith.)

“Credulity is not a virtue”

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#455944
Jun 24, 2013
 
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
You take a bite of poisonous fruit its going to kill you.
Take a bite of evil and it does the same thing.
Well, it didn't kill either Adam or Eve, supposedly. It did make them smarter, which seemed to make God very upset for some reason. Does God want people to be stupid? If so, then perhaps he should not have put two forbidden trees directly in front of them and then walked away to see what would happen.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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who="Oxbow"
012
There was no Catholic "church"...per your own Bible: Jesusí church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation. That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

**********
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE (the church).
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And THE WALL OF THE CITY HAD TWELVE FOUNDATIONS, AND IN THEM THE NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB.

Peter is only PART of the foundation of the city/Bride/church.

KayMarie
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#455946
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text>Your church was once part of the Orthodox Church and broke from them in 1054 when your bIshop wanted to be in control of all the other Four Bishops....the world Catholic means UNIVERSAL NOT CATHOLIC AS IN YOUR CHURCH OF TODAY. Now why is it that you catholics dont get that.Is so simple and makes since...One Bishop breaks from 4 not the other way around....
Myth #2: Five Patriarchs with Equal Authority

The 2nd myth goes like this: "There used to be 5 Patriarchs, all with equal authority. Then, the Pope of Rome broke off from the Church, whereas the other 4 remained."

Now,:-) this again, is not only revisionism, but out-and-out Greek bigotry. As stated, it makes it seem like there were 4 independent Patriarchs at the time who freely refused to stick with Rome in 1054. However, once one bothers to read the history, that's not the case at all.

In 1054, the Patriarchs of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem were not the local bishops who used to rule from these sees (since all of the locals broke off with the Monophysites). Rather, the Orthodox bishops of these sees in 1054 were all Byzantine Melkites -- Imperial appointees from Constantinople! Furthermore, they were presiding within Muslim countries; and their flocks were puny at best (most of the Christians in those regions being Monophysite, not Orthodox). So, they were no longer the great metropolitan sees of the ancient Church.

So, when the Orthodox say that there were 5 patriarchs and 1 broke off, that is not the case at all. It was not a 4 to 1 split. It was a 1 to 1 split -- Rome and Constantinople. The sees of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem at this time (ruled by imperial-minded Greeks from Byzantium) did whatever Constantinople told them to do. And, if Churches like the Copts and the Jacobites turn out not to be Monophysite after all, then these men weren't even the the legitimate bishops! But, the "Greek invaders" as the Copts and Syrians saw them.

So, in essence, the aforementioned Orthodox myth implies (nay, declares) that one must be Byzantine Greek in order to be in the Church. This is most anathema. ;-) And so much for the "poll of bishops" to determine orthodoxy. By 1054, Byzantium had done away with that replacing (rightly or wrongly) the legitimately-elected bishops of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem when they did not agree with the Byzantine decisions at Chalcedon. So, if Orthodoxy truly believes that correct doctrine is determined by a poll of the teachings of all bishops everywhere, then Orthodoxy is guilty of hypocrisy (from about 451 on).

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a30.htm
Human Being

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#455947
Jun 24, 2013
 
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a matter of understanding metaphor. I understand metaphors just fine. I'm not arguing that the Bible has to be interpreted literally rather than metaphorically. The problem is adding stuff to Genesis was wasn't put there, parable or no. If you want to say that Adam was supposed to understand that God meant "spiritual" death when that was never mentioned, then any part of the Bible can mean anything you want it to. Then it really would become an "unconnected set of words from beginning to end".
wilderide:

That is a dilemma, as to interpreting one's own understanding into the Bible, as opposed to taking away from it a harvest of understanding.

If you sow sparingly you will reap sparingly. So I try to stay open and keep my mind fertile.

I just see the stories in Genesis, as the Beginning. And we can trace back to that Beginning. If Adam were a spiritual man, made in the image of God, as Genesis states, then Adam would understand what God meant, and I don't have to project anything into the story.
Human Being

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#455948
Jun 24, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
"Time - created by man, lived by man." - New Age
New Age

Yes. Its use has really been distorted/adapted by man.
I will have to meditate on this, and find the "truer" use of time.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#455949
Jun 24, 2013
 
who="wilderide"
Problem is, the Hebrew messiah was human.

It's all in the Hebrew Bible.

Well, except for the being dead part.

Evidently the Hebrew prophesies have yet to be fulfilled then.

Are you kidding? If you think the last two thousand years are "the greatest peace ever known" then you really need to study history. Give me a break. Even our own country has participated in wars, both internally and externally, for it's entire history. Is that what you call "peace"?

Trust someone presented as a messiah, which is directly contradicted by the very authors of the texts that whose who ask me to trust say I should rely on?
That is so bizarre as to be surreal.

**********

You don't read too well. I didn't say 'two thousand'.

Yes, our country has participated in wars...like the II WW when we sacrificed a lot to save most of the known world from Hitler and Japan. The only war on this land was the Civil War which came about because of failure to obey God's commandments.

Bible prophecy is fulfilled in various ways and times. The prophet Daniel was given a prophecy that would be fulfilled over a time period exceeding two thousand years.

Nebuchadnezzar was given a prophetic dream that covers a large part of history.

Joseph was given prophetic dreams that showed him ruling over his family...and it came to pass over a period of years.

Your 'logic' is not God. And He is not through with prophecy. We see it coming to pass over and over.

KayMarie

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