Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 543,051
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455922 Jun 24, 2013
="atemcowboy"where do you come up with "without father" from the very few verses that we have about him?

**********
Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Heb 5:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
Heb 5:3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
Heb 5:4 And no man takes this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideS a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood,(for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaines to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Cont:

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455923 Jun 24, 2013
Heb 7:17 For he testifies, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by Him that said unto Him, The Lord swore and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continues ever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 WHO NEEDS NOT DAILY, as those high priests, TO OFFER UP SACRIFICE, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for THIS HE DID ONCE, WHEN HE OFFERED UP HIMSELF.
Heb 7:28 For THE LAW MAKES MAN HIGH PRIESTS WHICH HAVE INFIRMITY; but the word of the (God's) oath, which was since the law, makes the SON, who is consecrated for evermore.
KM

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455924 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Even more fun:
If Eve was cloned from Adam's rib, then that means Eve was also a man.
Adam and stEve!
Absolutely!!!

And the people that heard god's words didn't have hearing "aids," so when god said "Steve" they wrote Eve. It was a terrible mistake right from the start.

:)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455925 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="wilderide"
Here is a very good and easy to read website by a Jewish organization which outlines many reasons why Jesus, as described in the New Testament, contradicts Hebrew prophetic scripture:
http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
Here is the specific part which pertains specifically to your question:
"Descendent of David
Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection.(Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father &#8213; and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David.
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, nor will he possess supernatural qualities."
=======
This is the part where Christians must argue, quite illogically, that they know and interpret Hebrew texts better than the authors themselves.
**********
Try reading the Hebrews own prophets, who declared the Jews to be often erring from the Truth.
Jesus is the Son of David. Do you think that God, Who made man, and placed the 'seed' in Mary had nothing to do with where it came from?
Look at a rose bud sometime; open a tiny one up. Every petal is there in the bud before it opens. The human seed (embryo) is the same way. All of its parts are there before they open up.
Had he been born of natural man, He would not have had sinless blood, and its sacrifice would have been meaningless.
He was born, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD. Jn.1:13 He was born of a woman so that He could clothe Himself with flesh, and so that He could show us what God could do with a man who was submitted to Him.
KayMarie
Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless."

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455926 Jun 24, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
I subscribe to Aish.com good site but exposing why JEWS do not believe
Jesus is the only possible Messiah
from both sides of His EARTHLY family

http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/...
http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/onlyleg...
One legal..one physical
Thru Nathan on Marys side
And legally only on Joseph's side
Thru JECONIAH
These are both interesting fir several reasons
The Jews believe He will come after the Temple is rebuilt.
However when Jesus was alive there was Second temple which they had no idea woukd be gone.
Their interpretation of a third temple would not apply in Jesus time.
All of the Messianic. prophesies will be finished when Messiahcome (again)
SOME have already been fulfilled
He only had one human biological parent. That negates his being descended on both sides from the House of David. There isn't any room in the Hebrew prophetic texts for a "legal" parent.

And that is the least of the problems. He was still a demi-god, supposedly. He did't gather all the Jews back to Israel, rebuild the temple, or create world peace, among other things. And yes, the prophesies said the messiah would do all those things in his lifetime.

The problem stems from those in the early church who made Jesus into a demi-god in order to spread their sect/cult.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455927 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Time is necessarily linear to us at least. You can argue whether God is subject to linear time or not, but whether God has free will or not is not the question. We, living in linear time (if indeed an alternative exists), either have free will or we don't. If God knows our fate in advance, then we don't. If we have free will, then God isn't omniscient, and as a consequence can't be omnipotent either.
But like I said before, there is very little in the Bible to suggest that God is omniscient anyway. There is much more Biblical evidence that God isn't.
According to the theologians that according to their selves were always right on the mark of truth, their story was that Jehovah created good and evil.

What a naughty god!!!

:)

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455928 Jun 24, 2013
Sorry for the double post. My pc 'stumbled'..

KayMarie

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#455929 Jun 24, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes! All of the Early Church Fathers were, in fact Catholic. It was the only Universal Christian Church around at that time!! In forming the Canon of Scripture in 382,393 and 397, the Fathers of the Church spent over 350 years to compile, gather and prayfully discern the letters, documents, parchments, and manuscripts handed down by Jesus Christ HIMSELF and the Apostles..... Trusting the "words of men" you say??? Yes--if you begin with the Protestant Reformation----BUT NOT AT ALL from the manuscripts and letters handed down by Jesus Christ Himself and the Apostles!! The Early Church Fathers were "directly" led by the Spirit of God, to AND IN the Spirit of TRUTH through Jesus Christ (again) through discernment, prayer,understanding contemplation AND most important---IN FULL and TOTAL AGREEMENT!!! Compare the aggregate COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH THE EARLY CHURCH FATHER in compiling and formulating in arriving at the TRUTH of the TRUE interpretation of the Bible -one and one one TRUE interpretation. Compare that the contradicting, inconsistent and conflicting "hodge-podge" of over 42,000 (different) bible only (editorialized) interpretations since the Reformations and it is easy to see why there exists NOTHING but 42,000 man-made "relative truth" opinions
Furthermore, the Catholic Church is not an "expansion" of ANYTHING "man-made", but came DIRECTLY from Jesus Christ HIMSELF, through the Apostles!
Bible only Protestantism is just another one of inconsistent contradicting, conflicting denominations that "did not come from God" but came from a (so-called enlightened) "self-appointed" editorial (interpreting minister) that claims to possess some form of truth, by just "making it up" as they go along!!!! Sola Scriptura was never believed by "anyone" until the 17th century and has absolutely "no basis" of biblical or historical truth to back up "anything that it teaches--or believes"! It is just an extension of the Protestant Reformation of "hodge-podge" denominations that started with Luther, then Zwingli, Wycliff, Hus, Waldo, Gasfort, beza, Cranmer, Farel, Hedio, Knox, Petri, Tyndale, and on and on and on to the 21st century. Now (here on topix) we have Confrinting, Orville, 4GVN, justachristian1,(you Jethro8) LTM, and every other self-appointed "relative truth" bible expert that interprets (or better yet mis-interprets the bible as well as the TRUTH of True Church History--ALL to their own confusion, demise, chaos and destruction!!!
Your Wrong!....Your church started in 1054....its not nice to LIE!!!LOL

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455930 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
I an not a linguist. But I suspect that the mind must be able to hold the concept before a word can be used to symbolize that concept, which eventually leads to its expression as a spoken and written language.
If you determine for yourself that you are unable to think in metaphors and allegories, then you are right, and the Bible is an unconnected set of words from beginning to end. Others don't see it that way though, and you will have a difficult proving it as a fallacy.
It's not a matter of understanding metaphor. I understand metaphors just fine. I'm not arguing that the Bible has to be interpreted literally rather than metaphorically. The problem is adding stuff to Genesis was wasn't put there, parable or no. If you want to say that Adam was supposed to understand that God meant "spiritual" death when that was never mentioned, then any part of the Bible can mean anything you want it to. Then it really would become an "unconnected set of words from beginning to end".

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455931 Jun 24, 2013
who="New Age Spiritual Leader"
Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless."

**********
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

KayMarie
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455932 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the difference between fate and pre-destination?
wilderide:

Well they have been conflated in our society, so its more subjective.

Fate in the modern sense tends to be "fatalistic", in which there is no choice.(Kind of looking from the inside to outside.) A sort of resignation of free-will.

Pre-destined in the Biblical sense is more the result of choice.(Kind of looking from the outside looking inside.) A sense of achieving....

They are very distinct in my mind. But in our language conflated.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#455933 Jun 24, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes! All of the Early Church Fathers were, in fact Catholic. It was the only Universal Christian Church around at that time!! In forming the Canon of Scripture in 382,393 and 397, the Fathers of the Church spent over 350 years to compile, gather and prayfully discern the letters, documents, parchments, and manuscripts handed down by Jesus Christ HIMSELF and the Apostles..... Trusting the "words of men" you say??? Yes--if you begin with the Protestant Reformation----BUT NOT AT ALL from the manuscripts and letters handed down by Jesus Christ Himself and the Apostles!! The Early Church Fathers were "directly" led by the Spirit of God, to AND IN the Spirit of TRUTH through Jesus Christ (again) through discernment, prayer,understanding contemplation AND most important---IN FULL and TOTAL AGREEMENT!!! Compare the aggregate COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH THE EARLY CHURCH FATHER in compiling and formulating in arriving at the TRUTH of the TRUE interpretation of the Bible -one and one one TRUE interpretation. Compare that the contradicting, inconsistent and conflicting "hodge-podge" of over 42,000 (different) bible only (editorialized) interpretations since the Reformations and it is easy to see why there exists NOTHING but 42,000 man-made "relative truth" opinions
Furthermore, the Catholic Church is not an "expansion" of ANYTHING "man-made", but came DIRECTLY from Jesus Christ HIMSELF, through the Apostles!
Bible only Protestantism is just another one of inconsistent contradicting, conflicting denominations that "did not come from God" but came from a (so-called enlightened) "self-appointed" editorial (interpreting minister) that claims to possess some form of truth, by just "making it up" as they go along!!!! Sola Scriptura was never believed by "anyone" until the 17th century and has absolutely "no basis" of biblical or historical truth to back up "anything that it teaches--or believes"! It is just an extension of the Protestant Reformation of "hodge-podge" denominations that started with Luther, then Zwingli, Wycliff, Hus, Waldo, Gasfort, beza, Cranmer, Farel, Hedio, Knox, Petri, Tyndale, and on and on and on to the 21st century. Now (here on topix) we have Confrinting, Orville, 4GVN, justachristian1,(you Jethro8) LTM, and every other self-appointed "relative truth" bible expert that interprets (or better yet mis-interprets the bible as well as the TRUTH of True Church History--ALL to their own confusion, demise, chaos and destruction!!!
Your church was once part of the Orthodox Church and broke from them in 1054 when your bIshop wanted to be in control of all the other Four Bishops....the world Catholic means UNIVERSAL NOT CATHOLIC AS IN YOUR CHURCH OF TODAY. Now why is it that you catholics dont get that.Is so simple and makes since...One Bishop breaks from 4 not the other way around....

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#455934 Jun 24, 2013
012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not watch the video. I don't know who created it either. To me, the people who put a video together would have to be examined before I would consider what they are presenting.
Like I said earlier, there were ALWAYS people outside of the Church preaching what they thought was the will of the Lord. The Apostles wrote about them as early as 50 AD. Any group can pick up a scroll and form a religion. The Catholic Church didn't pick up the writings of the Apostles and form a Church based on what they read. The hierarchy was in place before the Apostle wrote one single line of the NT. The hierarchy hasn't dissipated throughout time. Its become more and more visible with each passing year.
There was no Catholic "church"...per your own Bible: Jesusí church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation. That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455935 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
I like the term glints of "gold".
I used to do a little prospecting.(lol)
I generally use the term "intersecting points", when we reach some "shining" moments.
Keep digging...(I like it!)
:o)

I've thought about buying some "dirt" to do some home-propecting...."paydi rt", but decided against it, because it seems like only flakes are found and the price just doesn't meet my standards of a "good deal", although the 'entertainment' price may be a totally different endgame.

*shrugs*

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455936 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
You imply time is only linear. It may not be, and we only perceive time in our brain that way(not to say this is good nor bad).
"Time - created by man, lived by man." - New Age

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455937 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
Well they have been conflated in our society, so its more subjective.
Fate in the modern sense tends to be "fatalistic", in which there is no choice.(Kind of looking from the inside to outside.) A sort of resignation of free-will.
Pre-destined in the Biblical sense is more the result of choice.(Kind of looking from the outside looking inside.) A sense of achieving....
They are very distinct in my mind. But in our language conflated.
Predestined necessarily negates any choice. The result of choice is simply that: a result, or a consequence. Fate and predestination are synonymous with each other.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455938 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW - I also don't call murdering and killing whole villages - "The Beauty of God".
FYI - if you want to promote the selling points of the Bible, there isn't any. Why do I say this?
Well, because every trait that is in the Bible, can be acquired without any belief in any god. I don't need the Bible to tell me to love my neighbor. I also don't need it to tell me not to steal, murder, lie, etc.
I thank my parents for allowing me to be myself and to express these traits openly and with honesty.
Christianity is so egotistical, it believes that those "evil traits" are postively enforced. Again I disagree.
I find no positives in killing, "keeping the spoils for themselves" or other anti-commandments to be anything positive.
Why accept these horrendous acts as the "Beauty of God"?
Do you enjoy a good rumble?
New Age Spiritual Leader:

It is a difficult subject. But in short, there is conflict between good and evil. I hope you can agree here.

So in modern times, if we as a nation promote abortion(which I believe is evil, and you may( I hope) agree), aren't there going to be negative consequences for our nation as a whole, and this will move down to all the individuals within the nation?(We just project this problem back in history for the Jews in the O.T.)

I think yes.

Ready for the rumble

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455939 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
He only had one human biological parent. That negates his being descended on both sides from the House of David. There isn't any room in the Hebrew prophetic texts for a "legal" parent.
And that is the least of the problems. He was still a demi-god, supposedly. He did't gather all the Jews back to Israel, rebuild the temple, or create world peace, among other things. And yes, the prophesies said the messiah would do all those things in his lifetime.
The problem stems from those in the early church who made Jesus into a demi-god in order to spread their sect/cult.

**********

Jesus is God. He needed one human parent to give Him the needed body of flesh.

Did you ever notice that the woman provides the flesh body for all of us? Your father provided a seed that can only be seen under a microscope, and in the following nine months the seed grows a body of flesh from her strength.(Ever look a grain of corn...then look at a stalk of corn with three full ears on it? The 'seed' carried the instructions, but mother earth filled up the 'body'.)

Where did you get that "in His lifetime"? Anyway, He lived forever, so that's OK. The Jews have been gathered back under Ezra and Nehemiah, and their temple rebuilt...and they rebelled and were scattered again...even as God promised would occur if they forsook Him.
Now, beginning in 1948 they have again returned to the Promised Land, and are still being gathered from all over the earth...their DNA being checked for assurance.

The Temple has been rebuilt twice...but destroyed again for the sinfulness of the Jews.

However, the Prince of Peace has brought the greatest Peace ever known to this earth. America has lived miraculously for most of two hundred years, because our forefathers trusted Him. The greatest time of peace is yet to come.(Read the last two chapters of Revelation.)

Real Christians live in peace RIGHT NOW. I have great peace...even when trouble surrounds me!

He LIVES, and He offers you real life. Just trust HIM.

KayMarie

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455940 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="New Age Spiritual Leader"
Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless."
**********
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
KayMarie
uhm....this isn't Jesus speaking, this is Peter.

No wonder you enjoy playing the Telephone Game, you are usually the one distorting what was originally stated.

Let me make the statement again.

'Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless.'

The above post doesn't.

Just about anyone can make up something about someone and have others believe it. It happens all the time.

Unfortunately, for this statement, Jesus never said it, just like he never called himself "God".

Only men have given him these rewards - and no doubt, for their own personal "advancement".

Care to try again, but this time without trying to deceive others?
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455941 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me about it.
Even if two types of death were mentioned, that still doesn't specify what God meant. And let's say for the sake of argument that God meant "spiritual" death (and that Adam psychically understood this distinction). So if Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge, then Adam's spirit would die? What is the take-away lesson from that? Knowledge is evil, and ignorance is salvation?
wilderide:

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

You take a bite of poisonous fruit its going to kill you.
Take a bite of evil and it does the same thing.

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