Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Jul 10, 2007 Read more: CBC News 582,676
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Read more
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455947 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a matter of understanding metaphor. I understand metaphors just fine. I'm not arguing that the Bible has to be interpreted literally rather than metaphorically. The problem is adding stuff to Genesis was wasn't put there, parable or no. If you want to say that Adam was supposed to understand that God meant "spiritual" death when that was never mentioned, then any part of the Bible can mean anything you want it to. Then it really would become an "unconnected set of words from beginning to end".
wilderide:

That is a dilemma, as to interpreting one's own understanding into the Bible, as opposed to taking away from it a harvest of understanding.

If you sow sparingly you will reap sparingly. So I try to stay open and keep my mind fertile.

I just see the stories in Genesis, as the Beginning. And we can trace back to that Beginning. If Adam were a spiritual man, made in the image of God, as Genesis states, then Adam would understand what God meant, and I don't have to project anything into the story.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455948 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
"Time - created by man, lived by man." - New Age
New Age

Yes. Its use has really been distorted/adapted by man.
I will have to meditate on this, and find the "truer" use of time.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455949 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
Problem is, the Hebrew messiah was human.

It's all in the Hebrew Bible.

Well, except for the being dead part.

Evidently the Hebrew prophesies have yet to be fulfilled then.

Are you kidding? If you think the last two thousand years are "the greatest peace ever known" then you really need to study history. Give me a break. Even our own country has participated in wars, both internally and externally, for it's entire history. Is that what you call "peace"?

Trust someone presented as a messiah, which is directly contradicted by the very authors of the texts that whose who ask me to trust say I should rely on?
That is so bizarre as to be surreal.

**********

You don't read too well. I didn't say 'two thousand'.

Yes, our country has participated in wars...like the II WW when we sacrificed a lot to save most of the known world from Hitler and Japan. The only war on this land was the Civil War which came about because of failure to obey God's commandments.

Bible prophecy is fulfilled in various ways and times. The prophet Daniel was given a prophecy that would be fulfilled over a time period exceeding two thousand years.

Nebuchadnezzar was given a prophetic dream that covers a large part of history.

Joseph was given prophetic dreams that showed him ruling over his family...and it came to pass over a period of years.

Your 'logic' is not God. And He is not through with prophecy. We see it coming to pass over and over.

KayMarie

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON to Save us

#455950 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
He only had one human biological parent. That negates his being descended on both sides from the House of David. There isn't any room in the Hebrew prophetic texts for a "legal" parent.
And that is the least of the problems. He was still a demi-god, supposedly. He did't gather all the Jews back to Israel, rebuild the temple, or create world peace, among other things. And yes, the prophesies said the messiah would do all those things in his lifetime.
The problem stems from those in the early church who made Jesus into a demi-god in order to spread their sect/cult.
Wholly human ..wholly divine.

And it's a,mystery did sure.

And your reply tells me you dud nit read either of those..

There a 're several.

Legally He is the first born of Joseph ..as his adopted.

Physically He US Mary's son

And yes please don't start the arguments again on that..anyone.
ON if she US his mother

All these genealogy sites,say He is the DIRECT DESCENDANT IF DAVID...through Mary as His MOTHER.

And Joseph as His adopted father.

And they are NOT JUST CATHOLIC ONES.
One actually is,Jewish

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455951 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
That is a dilemma, as to interpreting one's own understanding into the Bible, as opposed to taking away from it a harvest of understanding.
If you sow sparingly you will reap sparingly. So I try to stay open and keep my mind fertile.
I just see the stories in Genesis, as the Beginning. And we can trace back to that Beginning. If Adam were a spiritual man, made in the image of God, as Genesis states, then Adam would understand what God meant, and I don't have to project anything into the story.
What about Adam being "spiritual" infers psychic powers? Because on the other hand, if Adam were so "spiritually" in-tuned with God, then Adam would have never disobeyed God.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455952 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
Well they have been conflated in our society, so its more subjective.
Fate in the modern sense tends to be "fatalistic", in which there is no choice.(Kind of looking from the inside to outside.) A sort of resignation of free-will.
Pre-destined in the Biblical sense is more the result of choice.(Kind of looking from the outside looking inside.) A sense of achieving....
They are very distinct in my mind. But in our language conflated.
"modern sense"
"Biblical sense"
"conflated"

Self....unless you can demonstrate that it is something different.

;o)
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455954 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Predestined necessarily negates any choice. The result of choice is simply that: a result, or a consequence. Fate and predestination are synonymous with each other.
wilderide:

Ironic! You who preached we must keep our definitions inviolate, and sacred, and yet you yield to conflating fate and pre-destination.

A bit disingenuous of you.

Sorry to be abrupt.

Romans 8:28,29

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate, to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he glorified.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455955 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
Well, it didn't kill either Adam or Eve, supposedly. It did make them smarter, which seemed to make God very upset for some reason. Does God want people to be stupid? If so, then perhaps he should not have put two forbidden trees directly in front of them and then walked away to see what would happen.

**********
Think, man; THINK! The tree was the tree OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF 'GOOD' AND 'EVIL'.

Adam knew God (good), but he had no knowledge of 'evil': pain, sorrow, thorns, hard labor, death, etc. He quickly felt them (notice how that the knowledge of 'shame' caused him to try to hide from God? Or did you notice how that the 'knowledge of evil' caused them all to start the 'blame game'...even to blaming God?'It was that woman that YOU gave me!').

Adam's body was so perfect that it took 930 years to kill it, but just as God said, Adam died in the same day in which he ate of the tree.(God's 'days' are equal to 1,000 years.)

God gives us choices. What are you doing with yours???

KayMarie

“OneLordOneFaith Eph4:5”

Since: Apr 08

Saint John Paul II Pray 4 Us.

#455956 Jun 24, 2013
Pope: Christians cannot be anti-Semitic

2013/06/24/
Vatican Radio website

(Vatican Radio) Pope Francis says due to “our common roots” with the Jewish people,“a Christian cannot be anti-Semitic!” Listen to Tracey McClure's report: RealAudioMP3

The Pope was speaking to a 30 strong delegation from the International Jewish Committee on Interreligious Consultations (IJCIC) who gathered in the Apostolic Palace’s Hall of the Popes for a private audience Monday. The IJCIC is committed to developing relations with the Vatican’s Commission on Religious Relations with the Jews, the Orthodox Christian Church, the World Council of Churches, and other international religious bodies.

Though he acknowledged he has met “important personalities of the Jewish world,” Pope Francis admitted this marked the first time he was addressing an official group of representatives of Jewish organizations and communities. And as such, he wanted to recall that landmark Second Vatican Council declaration Nostra Aetate which he described as a “key point of reference for relations with the Jewish people.”

“The fundamental principles expressed by the Declaration,” he continued,“have marked the path of greater awareness and mutual understanding trodden these last decades by Jews and Catholics”– a path very much supported, he noted, by his predecessors.

Pope Francis recalled his own friendships with leaders of the Jewish world while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, saying these “friendly relations are in a way the basis for the development of a more official dialogue.”

The Pope encouraged those present to “follow this path trying, as you do so, to involve younger generations.”“Humanity,” he said,“needs our joint witness in favour of respect for the dignity of man and woman…and in favour of peace.”

Text from page http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/06/24/po...

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455957 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
The only war on this land was the Civil War which came about because of failure to obey God's commandments.
Are you talking about slavery? Because if so, the wrong side won.
Bible prophecy is fulfilled in various ways and times. The prophet Daniel was given a prophecy that would be fulfilled over a time period exceeding two thousand years.
Nebuchadnezzar was given a prophetic dream that covers a large part of history.
Joseph was given prophetic dreams that showed him ruling over his family...and it came to pass over a period of years.
None of that changes the fact that the story of Jesus doesn't conform to Hebrew holy scripture about the messiah.
Your 'logic' is not God. And He is not through with prophecy. We see it coming to pass over and over.
KayMarie
Oh come on KayMarie. If God can't write the Bible to conform to "our" logic then it serves no purpose.
youtube

AOL

#455958 Jun 24, 2013
.

100% PROOF Pope Francis is ANTICHRIST______



.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455959 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
Ironic! You who preached we must keep our definitions inviolate, and sacred, and yet you yield to conflating fate and pre-destination.
A bit disingenuous of you.
Sorry to be abrupt.
Romans 8:28,29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate, to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he glorified.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying here. Fate and predestination are synonymous, and your quote from Romans seems to be saying the same thing.

Regardless, the main point is, if the future is knowable, then free will cannot exist. Therefore, if God is omniscient, then there is no free will.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455960 Jun 24, 2013
who="RoSesz"
Wholly human ..wholly divine.
And it's a,mystery did sure.
And your reply tells me you dud nit read either of those..
There a 're several.
Legally He is the first born of Joseph ..as his adopted.
Physically He US Mary's son
And yes please don't start the arguments again on that..anyone.
ON if she US his mother
All these genealogy sites,say He is the DIRECT DESCENDANT IF DAVID...through Mary as His MOTHER.
And Joseph as His adopted father.
And they are NOT JUST CATHOLIC ONES.
One actually is,Jewish

**********

Mary and Joseph were both Jewish.

America's laws (until recent ones) have been based on Judeo/Christian
Principles, and at least one state (maybe all of them) says that the "resident father is the legal father". I am familiar with that one.

Joseph was not a legally adoptive father; he was called by God to, "take Mary to wife". Legally, then, by Judeo principles, Joseph was the legal father.

KayMarie

“OneLordOneFaith Eph4:5”

Since: Apr 08

Saint John Paul II Pray 4 Us.

#455961 Jun 24, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Mary doesn't hear your prayers.
We Pray to the Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus.
We can go directly to God ourselves, Jesus only being our mediator.
A just man is a saved man: his faith counts as righteousness.
Why do Catholic forget about faith; you can not please God without it; without faith you tie the hands of God to move in your life.
'FAITH , THAT GOD THE FATHER HEARS OUR PRAYERS;
FAITH, THAT GOD THE FATHER WANTS US AS HIS CHILDREN TO GO TO HIM AND SIT AND TALK TO HIM.
WE DO IT IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.
WHY WOULD YOU GO TO ANY OTHER, AS A SAVED SINNER, WHEN WE STAND BEFORE GOD AND PRAY, HE SEE THE BLOOD OF JESUS COVERING US; NOT OUR SINFUL FLESH.
IT WAS JESUS' BLOOD NOT MARY'S THAT WASHED MY SINS AWAY.
MARY IS A REDEEMED SINNER. HER SAVIOR IS JESUS, THE RISEN LORD.


As do we pray to God alone. Not that it matters,…..can you explain Rev 8:3??
While your added it explain Rev 5:11-14 too.

The role of our Blessed Mother and other Saints is to bring followers for her son The Christ!

To deny that Saints and others are not with Christ, is to deny Christ’s promised.
To the thief on the cross “today you will be with me in paradise.’

SO YES, SAINTS HEAR OUR PRAYERS!!!!!!!!!

The new 21st century churches can not go around changing rules.
We go by what the Apostles were taught by Jesus himself.

Your interpretation of the Bible does not count! Sorry!
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455962 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
What about Adam being "spiritual" infers psychic powers? Because on the other hand, if Adam were so "spiritually" in-tuned with God, then Adam would have never disobeyed God.
wilderide:

Then by inference because Satan was the greatest angel he could not do evil either?

Are you a person that posits from a world-view that the Bible is wrong/outdated, or there is not good/evil, or ??? I ask so that I can better answer your questions.

There are a lot of dynamics in the question, and probably I can't give a short answer. But I will think on it. But in the broad sense evil entered the world, and Adam by choice turned from God.

I suppose it depends on whether one believes Adam was more like a pawn, under the influence of his desires. So in that sense we are all like him....

Sorry for the discontinuity of thought there....

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455963 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"

Oh come on KayMarie. If God can't write the Bible to conform to "our" logic then it serves no purpose.

**********

If you knew as much as God knows, the Bible would fit your logic perfectly.

And you think the south should have won the Civil War?

KayMarie

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455964 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
**********
Think, man; THINK! The tree was the tree OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF 'GOOD' AND 'EVIL'.
Adam knew God (good), but he had no knowledge of 'evil': pain, sorrow, thorns, hard labor, death, etc. He quickly felt them (notice how that the knowledge of 'shame' caused him to try to hide from God? Or did you notice how that the 'knowledge of evil' caused them all to start the 'blame game'...even to blaming God?'It was that woman that YOU gave me!').
Adam's body was so perfect that it took 930 years to kill it, but just as God said, Adam died in the same day in which he ate of the tree.(God's 'days' are equal to 1,000 years.)
God gives us choices. What are you doing with yours???
KayMarie
But as I pointed out before, Adam was not immortal to begin with, because God kicked him out of the garden before he could eat from the Tree of Life and become so. So Adam would have died anyway. So eating the fruit had no discernible consequence than highlighting God's injustice in punishing the innocent for the "sins" of others. And what was the "sin"? Knowledge.

PS - Prior to eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, presumably Adam could have known neither, and thus could not have known God was good. Nor, for that matter, could Adam have known that disobeying God was "evil".

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455965 Jun 24, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
012<quoted text>
There was no Catholic "church"...per your own Bible: Jesus’ church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation. That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.
~~~

Peter was not elevated to a position above any of the other apostles..

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

If John has answered Jesus instead of Peter In Matthew 16:18 or any one of the 12 Jesus would have given them the same answer..

Jesus did not build his church upon Peter...

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

THE CHURCH IS BUILT UPON

1 THE APOSTLES..

2.PROPHETS,

3.JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE..

READ IT FOR YOURSELVES...

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

JESUS SAID TO ALL HIS DISCIPLES IN

Joh_20:23

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

~~~

THE APOSTLE PAUL WROTE

Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat,

(whatsoever they were,

it maketh no matter to me:

God accepteth no man's person:)

for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference

added nothing to me:

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision/GENTILES was committed unto me,

as the gospel of the circumcision/JEWS was unto Peter;

Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision,/JEWS

the same was mighty in me

toward the Gentiles:)

Gal 2:9 And when James (THE LORDS BROTHER), Cephas, and John,

who seemed to be pillars,

perceived the grace that was given unto me,

they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we

should go unto the heathen/GENTILES,

and they unto the circumcision/JEWS.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455966 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying here. Fate and predestination are synonymous, and your quote from Romans seems to be saying the same thing.
Regardless, the main point is, if the future is knowable, then free will cannot exist. Therefore, if God is omniscient, then there is no free will.
wilderide:

I am sorry. Perhaps we are communicating to broad a concept here. Let me make it more concrete, for you to see what I am trying to say....

Right now, I can look left or right. I choose to look to my right. If now I look left, then God would know. That would make me a liar, but I still chose one or the other. Thus I have free-will.

So God knows I was truthful or a liar, but did not interfere. Thus free-will exists. And God and knew which way I would look.

(By the way, I did choose to the right, and executed it as well.)smile

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455967 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
It is a difficult subject. But in short, there is conflict between good and evil. I hope you can agree here.
The duality of our life. Why can't you reconcile this duality with "God"?

Duality is everywhere. Yet only one "God" who is made up of "three".

It doesn't add up.
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
So in modern times, if we as a nation promote abortion(which I believe is evil, and you may( I hope) agree), aren't there going to be negative consequences for our nation as a whole, and this will move down to all the individuals within the nation?(We just project this problem back in history for the Jews in the O.T.)
I think yes.
Ready for the rumble
One could speculate that this COULD be the case, but one could also look at it in other ways.

Abortion is a way to control population, like the supposed "Great Flood" was, but at a much lesser degree.

The abortion subject is off-topic, and personally, I think it is a bogus example, because many abortions are done with clear indicators of why they should be done. Just because someone doesn't agree with those decisions, are in truth, just opinions, spoken with biased through their religion or personal beliefs.

If there truly was a "God", and those who promote such, then why doesn't this "God" intervene. As it is stated by the so-called "Christian" team members, "He" is omniscient and omnipresent, and all-powerful, yet he can't stop abortions.

So when they die - they must all be dying because they are all part of "His plan" to do so.

Hmmmm....another conundrum.....

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