Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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Human Being

Welsh, LA

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#455910
Jun 24, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
I see the little glints of "gold" appearing.
This is where honesty can show you the whole nugget.
But then again - we are still talking about the Self, so in essence, you wouldn't be doing anything without it.
:o)
Keep digging deeper into the thoughts you have, that is where the treasure lies.
New Age Spiritual Leader:

I like the term glints of "gold".

I used to do a little prospecting.(lol)

I generally use the term "intersecting points", when we reach some "shining" moments.

Keep digging...(I like it!)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#455911
Jun 24, 2013
 
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
If a beautiful mountain scene reflects the Beauty of God, then why can't the Bible reflect the Beauty of God?(That Beauty is beyond our definition of beauty, because it is only a reflection.)
To see the Beauty of God in/beyond all things, seems a worthy goal.
BTW - I also don't call murdering and killing whole villages - "The Beauty of God".

FYI - if you want to promote the selling points of the Bible, there isn't any. Why do I say this?

Well, because every trait that is in the Bible, can be acquired without any belief in any god. I don't need the Bible to tell me to love my neighbor. I also don't need it to tell me not to steal, murder, lie, etc.

I thank my parents for allowing me to be myself and to express these traits openly and with honesty.

Christianity is so egotistical, it believes that those "evil traits" are postively enforced. Again I disagree.

I find no positives in killing, "keeping the spoils for themselves" or other anti-commandments to be anything positive.

Why accept these horrendous acts as the "Beauty of God"?

Do you enjoy a good rumble?
Human Being

Welsh, LA

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#455912
Jun 24, 2013
 
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Knowing the future has nothing to do with changing it.
If the future is knowable, then it is predestined. Simple as that.
wilderide:

You imply time is only linear. It may not be, and we only perceive time in our brain that way(not to say this is good nor bad).

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

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#455913
Jun 24, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
Try reading the Hebrews own prophets, who declared the Jews to be often erring from the Truth.
Such as?
Jesus is the Son of David. Do you think that God, Who made man, and placed the 'seed' in Mary had nothing to do with where it came from?
Unless God is descended from David, then what you are saying makes no sense.
He was born, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD. Jn.1:13
And therefore, not the messiah as foretold.
He was born of a woman so that He could clothe Himself with flesh, and so that He could show us what God could do with a man who was submitted to Him.
KayMarie
You mean be tortured to death?

Since: Sep 09

Vanderhoof, Canada

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#455914
Jun 24, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
This is the part where Christians must argue, quite illogically, that they know and interpret Hebrew texts better than the authors themselves.
**********
Try reading the Hebrews own prophets, who declared the Jews to be often erring from the Truth.
Jesus is the Son of David. Do you think that God, Who made man, and placed the 'seed' in Mary had nothing to do with where it came from?
You are so dense that you don't understand ... mortal ignorant MEN wrote all the words in the old testament AND the new testament ... and probably all the other "ancient" religious literature on earth.

You only believe in your own rendition of what your personalized literature means to you.

HOW SMALL is your mind that believes you see truth and those in other religions are all blind???

How VERY small is your mind???

Since: Jun 13

North Pole, AK

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#455915
Jun 24, 2013
 

Judged:

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Longshanks wrote:
<quoted text>
What bothers you about this statement Elizabeth? I really think you are misinterpreting the statement.
He is not saying you can't believe as methodist, lutheran, etc. He is merely saying the Catholic church is the true church of Christ. It doesn't mean anyone is being excluded from salvation.
Maybe, you can explain how it is that the Church is the true church of Christ. Do you mean to say that Christ established the RCC? Historically and ideologically, I think not. Before Constantine the RCC did not exist. The Early Church did exist and it existed with many bishops, not one was a pope. Jesus' mission was with the Jews, not the Gentiles. The RCC is a man-made institution. Please explain this true church of Christ.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#455916
Jun 24, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
One starts a sentence, and it is passed down the line to the last person. The ending sentence usually has NOTHING to do with the beginning message.
KayMarie
Just like the Bible.

I can now understand why you believe the way you do. You are one of those persons that hate to point out the discrepancies, and just avoid talking about them, because they ruin the game you are playing.

*sighs*

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

For His Creation

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#455917
Jun 24, 2013
 
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is a very good and easy to read website by a Jewish organization which outlines many reasons why Jesus, as described in the New Testament, contradicts Hebrew prophetic scripture:
http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
Here is the specific part which pertains specifically to your question:
"Descendent of David
Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection.(Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father &#8213; and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David.
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, nor will he possess supernatural qualities."
=======
This is the part where Christians must argue, quite illogically, that they know and interpret Hebrew texts better than the authors themselves.
I subscribe to Aish.com good site but exposing why JEWS do not believe

Jesus is the only possible Messiah

from both sides of His EARTHLY family

http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/...

http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/onlyleg...

One legal..one physical

Thru Nathan on Marys side

And legally only on Joseph's side
Thru JECONIAH

These are both interesting fir several reasons

The Jews believe He will come after the Temple is rebuilt.

However when Jesus was alive there was Second temple which they had no idea woukd be gone.

Their interpretation of a third temple would not apply in Jesus time.

All of the Messianic. prophesies will be finished when Messiahcome (again)
SOME have already been fulfilled

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

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#455918
Jun 24, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
Try reading the Hebrews own prophets, who declared the Jews to be often erring from the Truth.
The problem with sacrificing the Hebrew Bible this way is that in doing so you greatly undermine the Bible;'s foundation, and the New Testament into the bargain.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

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#455919
Jun 24, 2013
 
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
You imply time is only linear. It may not be, and we only perceive time in our brain that way(not to say this is good nor bad).
Time is necessarily linear to us at least. You can argue whether God is subject to linear time or not, but whether God has free will or not is not the question. We, living in linear time (if indeed an alternative exists), either have free will or we don't. If God knows our fate in advance, then we don't. If we have free will, then God isn't omniscient, and as a consequence can't be omnipotent either.

But like I said before, there is very little in the Bible to suggest that God is omniscient anyway. There is much more Biblical evidence that God isn't.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#455920
Jun 24, 2013
 
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
It is a personal sense/observation. So I leave it open to amendment.
The problem would come and not be resolvable, as if I went to more traditional religious values they would emphasize the difference, versus "new age" religious values, which would emphasize the multi-religious as a single composition.
I can live withthis explanation, as it is relatively accurate to many minds.

It is still a decision by Self to achieve this level of thought and comparison.
Human Being

Welsh, LA

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#455921
Jun 24, 2013
 
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary, unless words have definitions, then language (and books) have no meaning, and concepts cannot exist in the first place.
<quoted text>
The fact remains that the Bible never states this, and so it's a post-hoc rationalization of a story to fit a narrative ("the wages of sin are death").
wilderide:

I an not a linguist. But I suspect that the mind must be able to hold the concept before a word can be used to symbolize that concept, which eventually leads to its expression as a spoken and written language.

If you determine for yourself that you are unable to think in metaphors and allegories, then you are right, and the Bible is an unconnected set of words from beginning to end. Others don't see it that way though, and you will have a difficult proving it as a fallacy.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#455922
Jun 24, 2013
 
="atemcowboy"where do you come up with "without father" from the very few verses that we have about him?

**********
Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Heb 5:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
Heb 5:3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
Heb 5:4 And no man takes this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideS a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood,(for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaines to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Cont:

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#455923
Jun 24, 2013
 
Heb 7:17 For he testifies, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by Him that said unto Him, The Lord swore and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continues ever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 WHO NEEDS NOT DAILY, as those high priests, TO OFFER UP SACRIFICE, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for THIS HE DID ONCE, WHEN HE OFFERED UP HIMSELF.
Heb 7:28 For THE LAW MAKES MAN HIGH PRIESTS WHICH HAVE INFIRMITY; but the word of the (God's) oath, which was since the law, makes the SON, who is consecrated for evermore.
KM

Since: Sep 09

Vanderhoof, Canada

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#455924
Jun 24, 2013
 

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wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Even more fun:
If Eve was cloned from Adam's rib, then that means Eve was also a man.
Adam and stEve!
Absolutely!!!

And the people that heard god's words didn't have hearing "aids," so when god said "Steve" they wrote Eve. It was a terrible mistake right from the start.

:)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#455925
Jun 24, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="wilderide"
Here is a very good and easy to read website by a Jewish organization which outlines many reasons why Jesus, as described in the New Testament, contradicts Hebrew prophetic scripture:
http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
Here is the specific part which pertains specifically to your question:
"Descendent of David
Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection.(Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father &#8213; and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David.
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, nor will he possess supernatural qualities."
=======
This is the part where Christians must argue, quite illogically, that they know and interpret Hebrew texts better than the authors themselves.
**********
Try reading the Hebrews own prophets, who declared the Jews to be often erring from the Truth.
Jesus is the Son of David. Do you think that God, Who made man, and placed the 'seed' in Mary had nothing to do with where it came from?
Look at a rose bud sometime; open a tiny one up. Every petal is there in the bud before it opens. The human seed (embryo) is the same way. All of its parts are there before they open up.
Had he been born of natural man, He would not have had sinless blood, and its sacrifice would have been meaningless.
He was born, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD. Jn.1:13 He was born of a woman so that He could clothe Himself with flesh, and so that He could show us what God could do with a man who was submitted to Him.
KayMarie
Please post the passage that actually has Jesus stating "I am sinless."

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

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#455926
Jun 24, 2013
 
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
I subscribe to Aish.com good site but exposing why JEWS do not believe
Jesus is the only possible Messiah
from both sides of His EARTHLY family

http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/...
http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/onlyleg...
One legal..one physical
Thru Nathan on Marys side
And legally only on Joseph's side
Thru JECONIAH
These are both interesting fir several reasons
The Jews believe He will come after the Temple is rebuilt.
However when Jesus was alive there was Second temple which they had no idea woukd be gone.
Their interpretation of a third temple would not apply in Jesus time.
All of the Messianic. prophesies will be finished when Messiahcome (again)
SOME have already been fulfilled
He only had one human biological parent. That negates his being descended on both sides from the House of David. There isn't any room in the Hebrew prophetic texts for a "legal" parent.

And that is the least of the problems. He was still a demi-god, supposedly. He did't gather all the Jews back to Israel, rebuild the temple, or create world peace, among other things. And yes, the prophesies said the messiah would do all those things in his lifetime.

The problem stems from those in the early church who made Jesus into a demi-god in order to spread their sect/cult.

Since: Sep 09

Vanderhoof, Canada

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#455927
Jun 24, 2013
 
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Time is necessarily linear to us at least. You can argue whether God is subject to linear time or not, but whether God has free will or not is not the question. We, living in linear time (if indeed an alternative exists), either have free will or we don't. If God knows our fate in advance, then we don't. If we have free will, then God isn't omniscient, and as a consequence can't be omnipotent either.
But like I said before, there is very little in the Bible to suggest that God is omniscient anyway. There is much more Biblical evidence that God isn't.
According to the theologians that according to their selves were always right on the mark of truth, their story was that Jehovah created good and evil.

What a naughty god!!!

:)

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#455928
Jun 24, 2013
 
Sorry for the double post. My pc 'stumbled'..

KayMarie

Since: Feb 12

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#455929
Jun 24, 2013
 

Judged:

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hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes! All of the Early Church Fathers were, in fact Catholic. It was the only Universal Christian Church around at that time!! In forming the Canon of Scripture in 382,393 and 397, the Fathers of the Church spent over 350 years to compile, gather and prayfully discern the letters, documents, parchments, and manuscripts handed down by Jesus Christ HIMSELF and the Apostles..... Trusting the "words of men" you say??? Yes--if you begin with the Protestant Reformation----BUT NOT AT ALL from the manuscripts and letters handed down by Jesus Christ Himself and the Apostles!! The Early Church Fathers were "directly" led by the Spirit of God, to AND IN the Spirit of TRUTH through Jesus Christ (again) through discernment, prayer,understanding contemplation AND most important---IN FULL and TOTAL AGREEMENT!!! Compare the aggregate COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH THE EARLY CHURCH FATHER in compiling and formulating in arriving at the TRUTH of the TRUE interpretation of the Bible -one and one one TRUE interpretation. Compare that the contradicting, inconsistent and conflicting "hodge-podge" of over 42,000 (different) bible only (editorialized) interpretations since the Reformations and it is easy to see why there exists NOTHING but 42,000 man-made "relative truth" opinions
Furthermore, the Catholic Church is not an "expansion" of ANYTHING "man-made", but came DIRECTLY from Jesus Christ HIMSELF, through the Apostles!
Bible only Protestantism is just another one of inconsistent contradicting, conflicting denominations that "did not come from God" but came from a (so-called enlightened) "self-appointed" editorial (interpreting minister) that claims to possess some form of truth, by just "making it up" as they go along!!!! Sola Scriptura was never believed by "anyone" until the 17th century and has absolutely "no basis" of biblical or historical truth to back up "anything that it teaches--or believes"! It is just an extension of the Protestant Reformation of "hodge-podge" denominations that started with Luther, then Zwingli, Wycliff, Hus, Waldo, Gasfort, beza, Cranmer, Farel, Hedio, Knox, Petri, Tyndale, and on and on and on to the 21st century. Now (here on topix) we have Confrinting, Orville, 4GVN, justachristian1,(you Jethro8) LTM, and every other self-appointed "relative truth" bible expert that interprets (or better yet mis-interprets the bible as well as the TRUTH of True Church History--ALL to their own confusion, demise, chaos and destruction!!!
Your Wrong!....Your church started in 1054....its not nice to LIE!!!LOL

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