Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 548,536
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455843 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
If God is omniscient, then free will is impossible, because then fate would exist:
If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?
If yes, then God was wrong, and not omniscient.
If no, then you have no free will.
Simple as that.
To an all-powerful, all-knowing deity that demands perfection from humans ... free will would be the furthest thought from his creative "mind."

Silly nonsense!

I don't know about you, but had I been asked if I wanted to be created, knowing I would pay with suffering, I would have refused the "offer."

As is all theological nonsense ... free will is a myth.

“Let the Children”

Since: Aug 08

Come To Me

#455844 Jun 24, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Ugh come on Rose. Its very important for the Christian to be interested in truth. You guys take the Holy Scriptures completely out of context.
I don't know much about the Waldenesians. But if they were preaching truth about scripture, then Holy Spirit would have guided them thru any difficult times.
I'm guessing they were tons of groups or cults if you will. Heck, there is over 45,000 today.
The Apostles revealed Christianity by word of mouth and letter. They established a visible hierarchy and passed the keys unto them. This is truth.
One more thing Rose..Constantine was already dead when the Bible was compiled.
I just don't understand the Biblical ignorance from your camp. Its almost like y'all replace God with the Bible. I know, I know 'its His word'. I agree. But that title is taken to a entire different level by the fundamentalist.
I did not say they had bibles..They had copies if scriptures.

This was back when the Church became powerful and they wanted to be disciples. Nit part of a CC combined with the Emerirs,power.

Did you watch that video.

Thing is there were people OUTSUDE the massive political entity that the Church became in the Early middle ages who were as the Reformers,bringing Jesus,to the people nit through.the filter if the Vatican

Hey Clay when I first heard and read any history from that time I was amazed that the Church if today kept this secret from believers.

All man run institutions can Err..look at Poor Alexander..the Birgia pope..And others,of that era.

They allowed Inquistions in the Name of the Lord.

In one if them..Spain was run by Catholics who should have been excommunicated.

And there were cleric involved in trying to make people price s belief.

It happened.

The Church UN by men can be in error..That does nit mean that modern pipes haven't tried to make up for it .

JOHN Paul was,a very Godly man.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455845 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
Hebrew girls were taught to keep themselves pure because one of them would give birth to the Messiah. It was a desired position, and they dreamed that they might be the one.
God sent the angel Gabriel with the message, and Mary gladly agreed; it was her 'dream'.
Rape had nothing to do with it. It was miraculous...not physical.
KayMarie
Maybe Mary would have agreed anyway, but no attempt was made to ask her permission beforehand. Which is highly misogynistic, to say the least.

It is also one of the ways Jesus would have been disqualified as the savior, because Hebrew prophesy said the savior would be fully human, born of two human parents descended from the House of David. not a demi-god. Joseph's adoption doesn't count either.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455846 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I'm okay with it, too. We all get to believe what we want.
Which is ultimately Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm NOT okay with people believing that gods are ordering them how to behave.
Too many people have taken control over others by believing that a god has ordained them to follow his will. Then they want to go out and convert, or to the extreme force others to follow their own paths.
Ridiculous!
An additional note.
a. You've voiced your objection. Why? What impact does another person's belief have upon you and your belief?
- From my perception, you sound angry.

I'm guessing that this frustration only occurred after you removed yourself from Christianity, and now you are so aggitated because of it, what else can you be angry with after abiding by those same rules for 70+ years.

But now your anger has actually caused you to make up erroneous facts, as you have above - "I'm NOT okay....."

All I can say is.....that is just too bad you aren't, when it really has nothing to do with you now......or does it?

Hmmmmm....you are starting to sound spurious.

“Let the Children”

Since: Aug 08

Come To Me

#455847 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, Mary was told after the fact, not asked beforehand.
And what do we call impregnating a women without her prior permission?
BE IT DONE TO ME ACCORDING TO THY WORDS.

She was asked ..She said YES.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455848 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
- Please state which "gods" have been ordering people to believe a certain way.
-
Where would you like me to start? At the beginning of history, or later on.

According to the believers and (that is the all important factor here)... the gods needed humans and non-human animals to be sacrificed in order in the flames in ORDER to please his whims.

According to what believers took from their holy books, the gods told them to torture imprison and burn others at the stake.

Centuries of blood-shed and it still continues, because the faithful ones read their books and are certain they find truth in the words that gods gave to earlier believers.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455849 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I'm guessing that this frustration only occurred after you removed yourself from Christianity, and now you are so aggitated because of it, what else can you be angry with after abiding by those same rules for 70+ years.
I was taken for a sucker by theologians.

That is the only reason I am on this forum.

I want to give others the chance to see the lies that took me so many years of study to "SPOT."

Those who don't want to see ... won't see ... and that is YOUR choice.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455850 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
You are still applying Self - no matter how you express it.
It all begins and ends with you.
The choices you make.
The actions you take.
The actions you don't take.
You can run, but it will always be with you. Self.
No organized religion is required.
New Age Spiritual Leader:

Well, its hard to reproduce in concrete terms, so let me leave you with a description of what "it" seems like to me, what you describe.

Ego-Echo= self/Self

It is more like a projection of one's own actions and choices which determines the echo through time and space. If as you say it all originates in oneself, then when the river of sound moves into the desert and evaporates, it is no longer viable for Life.

And I am not saying that "it" does not exist, but rather, I find submission to God as the Way, God has chosen for me, and which I follow.

So in a way, I see a connection to the origin, and end in a different way. We may be describing something similar, or even intersecting in points?

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455851 Jun 24, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
BE IT DONE TO ME ACCORDING TO THY WORDS.
She was asked ..She said YES.
So Mary said "YES" to the god of the Jews to being impregnated, so that she could bear a Jewish child ... raise him as a Jew, and then have her and her son convert to Catholicism ... in the FACE of the SAME god of the Jews.

You make her out to be a very stupid woman.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455852 Jun 24, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
You're QUITE the preacher. I noticed your avatar reads "Let the children come to me!

Do you believe that if Jesus lived he would have wanted the children of the Jews to come to be taught by him???

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455853 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
God has chosen for me, and which I follow.
You were the one who claimed you studied other religions and then decided to be a Catholic.

LIAR!!!
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455854 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Maybe I should have been clearer.
One does not need "organized religion"?
Do you always allow men to decide what you are to believe?
If the answer is "no", then Self has interjected.
<quoted text>
Great question. In fact, this is a question that many refuse to ponder too long on, because they are biased in their belief. I'm glad you put it out here for others to at read.
IMO - I believe religion hinders the potentials of human ingenuity, because religion places qualifiers on an individual and the control a person applies. If religion was not such an intrusive entity, we would have advanced much further.
<quoted text>
Who said about "forgetting everything else"? I sue in the hell didn't.
Maybe this is the ruse that has plagued so-called "Christians" for so long, they forgot they make the choices they do.
Hmmmm.....honesty is a key factor here.
<quoted text>
By seeking out the truth.
If the turh is unrecoverable, and an individual rests on what he/she determines is the result, event hough they have not "recovered the truth", how is that they can exclaim they have that supposed truth?
<quoted text>
Untrue. You make the dimensions of your life. It is not defined by religion. This is just another fallacy religion puts forth....."We have the truth, come to us and we'll tell you it."
<quoted text>
One shoud research that which they want to believe FIRST and not after the fact.
<quoted text>
You may call it anything you choose, as we both truly don't have a clear or decisive conclusion that would make it 100% true.
<quoted text>
I'm okay with it, too. We all get to believe what we want.
Which is ultimately Self.
New Age Spiritual Leader:

A lot to think on here.

I find your opinion partially true. There is another part beside religion being a hindrance to human potential, and that it provides discipline and definition, and therefore can become a means through which one is enlightened.

I suppose it depends on how one applies oneself to religion, which makes it a tool for liberation, or one of enslavement.

If you practice your religion by taking long hikes, and reflecting on the beauty of nature, then some would call it a hindrance, and others might not. But it is still your practice, and it is still religion. So religion is necessary.(By the way, I make this a part of my religion).

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455855 Jun 24, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
To an all-powerful, all-knowing deity that demands perfection from humans ... free will would be the furthest thought from his creative "mind."
Silly nonsense!
I don't know about you, but had I been asked if I wanted to be created, knowing I would pay with suffering, I would have refused the "offer."
As is all theological nonsense ... free will is a myth.
Free will could be the proof to show that there is no "gods".

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455856 Jun 24, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
If they weren't preaching what the Apostles preached, then they weren't really Christians. That probably explains why their 'church' never made it out of the Alps. I'm sure they were nice people, but Jesus didn't promise to protect them from error. The Church Peter organized was promised that.
~~~~

You wrote

"If they weren't preaching what the Apostles preached, then they weren't really Christians."

If you believe that...Then you should have not trouble understanding why

we evangelicals don't accept Catholicism...

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455857 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
- Please state which "gods" have been ordering people to believe a certain way.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Where would you like me to start? At the beginning of history, or later on.
I really couldn't care where you start, as there isn't any documents written by any god, except, supposedly - the "10 Commandments".

What do you have?
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the believers and (that is the all important factor here)... the gods needed humans and non-human animals to be sacrificed in order in the flames in ORDER to please his whims.
"according to the believers" - is not "gods telling them what to believe", but humans making a choice to believe.

Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
According to what believers took from their holy books, the gods told them to torture imprison and burn others at the stake.
"according to the believers" - is not "gods telling them what to believe", but humans making a choice to believe.

Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Centuries of blood-shed and it still continues, because the faithful ones read their books and are certain they find truth in the words that gods gave to earlier believers.
I now can understand why you are so upset, you blame invisible gods for the actions of humans, more than likely, because you were part of them at one time, and still haven't reconciled those false-truths that they embarked upon you.

Move past the words and understand their meanings.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455858 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
If God is omniscient, then free will is impossible, because then fate would exist:
If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?
If yes, then God was wrong, and not omniscient.
If no, then you have no free will.
Simple as that.

**********
If you are the weatherman, and you see all the signs of rain, and 'know' that it is going to rain, does that mean that the weather cannot change? LOL

God, being omniscient, simply means that He knows whether I will change my mind. I still have the 'free will' to change it.

KayMarie
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455859 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
That misses the point. How does one receive or earn God's grace? Faith? Or faith and works?
<quoted text>
Then you are saying that faith is the only thing required, and that while works may result, they are not necessary for salvation.
That contradicts the many, many passages that directly state that both faith and works are required. Would you like me to list them?
wilderide:

One does not earn God's Grace. It is freely given by God. One may either accept or reject God's Grace.

I can only write in generalities here, but how one accepts God's Grace, is with humbleness and child-like joy in reception.

The gift of God's Grace is less an intellectual acceptance of a message, as it is more an acceptance of a world-view.

The acceptance of faith in God is more an intellectual acceptance of the message, and less of a world-view.

(That is the sort of dynamic between God's Grace and faith in our lives.)

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#455860 Jun 24, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
since it has since been united with another church ..I had to look it up but yes it is/ was whatever..
You seem to have questions about Baptists as well as Catholics ox??
I see myself first and foremost as a Christian..
One of the best bible believing churches in our area is non denominational.
They baptize every year in the ocean
I was a Catholic for forty some odd years...I are now a member of an SBC church...your "baptist" church, from what I can gather, was/is not SBC...

Believe what you will....but there is no saving power in water as the Catholic teach...per Scripture...

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#455861 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
Like I said, Mary was told after the fact, not asked beforehand.
And what do we call impregnating a women without her prior permission?

**********

Mary asked, How shall this be...?

Gabriel said, "The Holy Ghost SHALL come upon you..." He didn't say, "has", but "shall".

What part of that don't you understand?

KayMarie

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455862 Jun 24, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
BE IT DONE TO ME ACCORDING TO THY WORDS.
She was asked ..She said YES.
She was not asked, she was told. After that fact.

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