Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 555,150
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455831 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
Adam first died spiritually, as he disobeyed God, and ran away. I hope you see the truth in going away from God, means death.
Later he died physically.
Where in the Bible does it say either that Adam died "spiritually", or that God meant that Adam would die "spiritually"?

Sorry, that doesn't wash.

Adam did die physically later, but he would have anyway, because he was not immoral to begin with.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455832 Jun 24, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
ALL religion is "organized" in the mindset of the individual believer.
You missed the point.

One does not need religion to believe they will be "saved".

Which - if you are paying attention, is a rebuke to this forum's main topic.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455833 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
God knows everything. It is STILL up to us to choose.
Jesus gave you a choice about sin (original or otherwise). He made a way of escape for us.
KayMarie
If God is omniscient, then free will is impossible, because then fate would exist:

If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?

If yes, then God was wrong, and not omniscient.
If no, then you have no free will.

Simple as that.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455834 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
**********
Hojo...when the church fathers compiled the Bible, they were determining the validity of things preached.(I doubt that those 'fathers' were all RC; else the outcome would have been quite different.) They included the books/letters that were accepted, and left out the ones that were repetitious or questionable.
What you are saying, is that your church is built by and on men, and you trust their words instead of His. You are trusting the words of men about whom you know nothing.
KayMarie
The contradictions of Christianity.

"when the church fathers compiled the Bible"

"What you are saying, is that your church is built by and on men, and you trust their words instead of His. You are trusting the words of men about whom you know nothing."

- but yet you think "God" wrote the Bible.

DOH!!

If honesty was involved at any point in your life, you would admit that you have been dishonest with yourself and others and speak truths that are factually true, and not hypothetical.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455835 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
It was not 'after the fact'. She asked how that could happen and Gabriel explained that the Holy Ghost WOULD visit her...THEN she gave her permission.
The Holy Ghost still puts life in mankind today. It is called, "the baptism of the Holy Ghost".
KayMarie
Like I said, Mary was told after the fact, not asked beforehand.

And what do we call impregnating a women without her prior permission?

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455836 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
**********
Not so, June. I find His word to 'work',
You DEMAND that it "works" your Protestant way.

You defame and insult the faithful Jews every time you claim that Jewish apostles, the supposed virgin Mary and Jesus supports Christianity as their "God-given" religion.

You KNOW it, and I know it and any one with a brain KNOWS it.

If Jesus lived, he would be the only Jew in history that you Catholics and Protestants idolized, and that is ONLY because you believe he will come "again" to save and favor your Christian butts and ordain you with eternal bliss in an afterlife.

And THAT is not being faithful to anything but your lies.

For centuries the Jews were put to torture and death for not becoming Christians.

I suggest you STOP LYING ... or not! The onus is on you.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455837 Jun 24, 2013
Jesus is simply a Christianized door matt ... a dumping ground for Christian sins ... and a sponsor for Christian salvation!

They bled his image of all his Jewish heritage and now they crucify his image with more Christian lies.

My guess is, YOU SEE IT ... even though you don't want to see it.

Religion is BUNK!

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455838 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, Mary was told after the fact, not asked beforehand.
And what do we call impregnating a women without her prior permission?
According to the Catholics, Mary was thrilled to be impregnated by the god of the Jews.

What a pile of steaming slop!!!

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455839 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
Contradictions? There are no contradictions; only knowledge that we don't have yet.
Nope. There are contradictions. As has been mentioned before, for example, the question of being saved by faith alone, or faith and works. There are many passages which directly contradict each other, even on such basic concepts as that.
Disagreeing sects are all a bit short on knowledge. When they learn the truth, they will agree on it.
Funny, that's exactly what each sect says about all the others. So then how does one objectively determine which sect, if any, is correct? The Bible? I guess it's not perfect or clear enough to make that determination, is it?
Scripture says that the Messiah (Jesus) would speak in dark parables, so that wicked men could not use/abuse them.
Then scripture is manifestly wrong, obviously.
His parables are known throughout the world. The Holy Spirit reveals the truth of those matters to those who seek Him.
Odd then that the Holy Spirit would give differing and conflicting answers to all the people seeking it.
One is saved BY FAITH...when they are 'saved', their hearts are changed, and they naturally do good works. These works are honored by rewards/crowns.
But here you are saying works are not required for salvation, which contradicts many passages (which I'm happy to list if you like) which say works are a required component of being saved, not a result.
No one is sent to hell for 'unwittingly' going off the path. God is so merciful, that He made special arrangements for the Hebrews who sinned UNKNOWINGLY. He will not do less for us...for HE never changes, and He does not respect one person/group over another.
Why did God treat the Hebrews with special favor when there were so many other cultures around the world doing the same thing?

It's a remarkable coincidence that each culture is the special favorite of the deities that they say exist, and share all of their values with, isn't it?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455840 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I'm okay with it, too. We all get to believe what we want.
Which is ultimately Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm NOT okay with people believing that gods are ordering them how to behave.
Too many people have taken control over others by believing that a god has ordained them to follow his will. Then they want to go out and convert, or to the extreme force others to follow their own paths.
Ridiculous!
"I'm NOT okay with people believing that gods are ordering them how to behave."
- Please state which "gods" have been ordering people to believe a certain way.
- Please post the citation to this assertion.

FYI - as of today, no "gods" have been proven to have existed physically, yet with your claim, you think they have.

Again, you haven't researched your assertion well enough to make such an unfounded claim.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455841 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
Not false. God said,'in the day that you eat...you shall die.'
One thousand years is as a day to the Lord. Adam died at 930 years of age. No man before or after that lived a full day of God's time. Later God shortened the life span of man to 120 years...and even later, He shortened it to 70 years.
God didn't have to say anything about future generations. Adam was the father of all mankind, and they inherited his changed DNA.
KayMarie
Adam would have died anyway, because he was never immortal to begin with.

God said Adam would die when he ate the fruit, and he didn't. Either God lied or God was wrong. It's as simple as that.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455842 Jun 24, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
UH HUH!
And after this new speech, you still believe that you will be rewarded with eternal bliss and others will be fodder for the devil's hell.
I don't perceive that your smooth words are at all charming or enticing.
I would equate you to an arrogant shyster who uses words as play-things to in turn benefit only your own play-pen.
June

I have told you too many time its not for me to judge. I cannot say I will be afforded any different end, but I perceive a more difficult, but better way in Jesus Christ. I deliver a message, to look for God, and get away from looking after one's own "play-pen".

Perceive as you will. I thank you for keeping me focused, and making me aware of my apparent and true faults. And I pray you keep your sense, and not break God's laws.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455843 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
If God is omniscient, then free will is impossible, because then fate would exist:
If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?
If yes, then God was wrong, and not omniscient.
If no, then you have no free will.
Simple as that.
To an all-powerful, all-knowing deity that demands perfection from humans ... free will would be the furthest thought from his creative "mind."

Silly nonsense!

I don't know about you, but had I been asked if I wanted to be created, knowing I would pay with suffering, I would have refused the "offer."

As is all theological nonsense ... free will is a myth.

“Let the Children”

Since: Aug 08

Come To Me

#455844 Jun 24, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Ugh come on Rose. Its very important for the Christian to be interested in truth. You guys take the Holy Scriptures completely out of context.
I don't know much about the Waldenesians. But if they were preaching truth about scripture, then Holy Spirit would have guided them thru any difficult times.
I'm guessing they were tons of groups or cults if you will. Heck, there is over 45,000 today.
The Apostles revealed Christianity by word of mouth and letter. They established a visible hierarchy and passed the keys unto them. This is truth.
One more thing Rose..Constantine was already dead when the Bible was compiled.
I just don't understand the Biblical ignorance from your camp. Its almost like y'all replace God with the Bible. I know, I know 'its His word'. I agree. But that title is taken to a entire different level by the fundamentalist.
I did not say they had bibles..They had copies if scriptures.

This was back when the Church became powerful and they wanted to be disciples. Nit part of a CC combined with the Emerirs,power.

Did you watch that video.

Thing is there were people OUTSUDE the massive political entity that the Church became in the Early middle ages who were as the Reformers,bringing Jesus,to the people nit through.the filter if the Vatican

Hey Clay when I first heard and read any history from that time I was amazed that the Church if today kept this secret from believers.

All man run institutions can Err..look at Poor Alexander..the Birgia pope..And others,of that era.

They allowed Inquistions in the Name of the Lord.

In one if them..Spain was run by Catholics who should have been excommunicated.

And there were cleric involved in trying to make people price s belief.

It happened.

The Church UN by men can be in error..That does nit mean that modern pipes haven't tried to make up for it .

JOHN Paul was,a very Godly man.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455845 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
Hebrew girls were taught to keep themselves pure because one of them would give birth to the Messiah. It was a desired position, and they dreamed that they might be the one.
God sent the angel Gabriel with the message, and Mary gladly agreed; it was her 'dream'.
Rape had nothing to do with it. It was miraculous...not physical.
KayMarie
Maybe Mary would have agreed anyway, but no attempt was made to ask her permission beforehand. Which is highly misogynistic, to say the least.

It is also one of the ways Jesus would have been disqualified as the savior, because Hebrew prophesy said the savior would be fully human, born of two human parents descended from the House of David. not a demi-god. Joseph's adoption doesn't count either.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455846 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I'm okay with it, too. We all get to believe what we want.
Which is ultimately Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm NOT okay with people believing that gods are ordering them how to behave.
Too many people have taken control over others by believing that a god has ordained them to follow his will. Then they want to go out and convert, or to the extreme force others to follow their own paths.
Ridiculous!
An additional note.
a. You've voiced your objection. Why? What impact does another person's belief have upon you and your belief?
- From my perception, you sound angry.

I'm guessing that this frustration only occurred after you removed yourself from Christianity, and now you are so aggitated because of it, what else can you be angry with after abiding by those same rules for 70+ years.

But now your anger has actually caused you to make up erroneous facts, as you have above - "I'm NOT okay....."

All I can say is.....that is just too bad you aren't, when it really has nothing to do with you now......or does it?

Hmmmmm....you are starting to sound spurious.

“Let the Children”

Since: Aug 08

Come To Me

#455847 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, Mary was told after the fact, not asked beforehand.
And what do we call impregnating a women without her prior permission?
BE IT DONE TO ME ACCORDING TO THY WORDS.

She was asked ..She said YES.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455848 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
- Please state which "gods" have been ordering people to believe a certain way.
-
Where would you like me to start? At the beginning of history, or later on.

According to the believers and (that is the all important factor here)... the gods needed humans and non-human animals to be sacrificed in order in the flames in ORDER to please his whims.

According to what believers took from their holy books, the gods told them to torture imprison and burn others at the stake.

Centuries of blood-shed and it still continues, because the faithful ones read their books and are certain they find truth in the words that gods gave to earlier believers.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#455849 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I'm guessing that this frustration only occurred after you removed yourself from Christianity, and now you are so aggitated because of it, what else can you be angry with after abiding by those same rules for 70+ years.
I was taken for a sucker by theologians.

That is the only reason I am on this forum.

I want to give others the chance to see the lies that took me so many years of study to "SPOT."

Those who don't want to see ... won't see ... and that is YOUR choice.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455850 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
You are still applying Self - no matter how you express it.
It all begins and ends with you.
The choices you make.
The actions you take.
The actions you don't take.
You can run, but it will always be with you. Self.
No organized religion is required.
New Age Spiritual Leader:

Well, its hard to reproduce in concrete terms, so let me leave you with a description of what "it" seems like to me, what you describe.

Ego-Echo= self/Self

It is more like a projection of one's own actions and choices which determines the echo through time and space. If as you say it all originates in oneself, then when the river of sound moves into the desert and evaporates, it is no longer viable for Life.

And I am not saying that "it" does not exist, but rather, I find submission to God as the Way, God has chosen for me, and which I follow.

So in a way, I see a connection to the origin, and end in a different way. We may be describing something similar, or even intersecting in points?

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