Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 626780 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455857 Jun 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
- Please state which "gods" have been ordering people to believe a certain way.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Where would you like me to start? At the beginning of history, or later on.
I really couldn't care where you start, as there isn't any documents written by any god, except, supposedly - the "10 Commandments".

What do you have?
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the believers and (that is the all important factor here)... the gods needed humans and non-human animals to be sacrificed in order in the flames in ORDER to please his whims.
"according to the believers" - is not "gods telling them what to believe", but humans making a choice to believe.

Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
According to what believers took from their holy books, the gods told them to torture imprison and burn others at the stake.
"according to the believers" - is not "gods telling them what to believe", but humans making a choice to believe.

Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Centuries of blood-shed and it still continues, because the faithful ones read their books and are certain they find truth in the words that gods gave to earlier believers.
I now can understand why you are so upset, you blame invisible gods for the actions of humans, more than likely, because you were part of them at one time, and still haven't reconciled those false-truths that they embarked upon you.

Move past the words and understand their meanings.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#455858 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
If God is omniscient, then free will is impossible, because then fate would exist:
If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?
If yes, then God was wrong, and not omniscient.
If no, then you have no free will.
Simple as that.

**********
If you are the weatherman, and you see all the signs of rain, and 'know' that it is going to rain, does that mean that the weather cannot change? LOL

God, being omniscient, simply means that He knows whether I will change my mind. I still have the 'free will' to change it.

KayMarie
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455859 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
That misses the point. How does one receive or earn God's grace? Faith? Or faith and works?
<quoted text>
Then you are saying that faith is the only thing required, and that while works may result, they are not necessary for salvation.
That contradicts the many, many passages that directly state that both faith and works are required. Would you like me to list them?
wilderide:

One does not earn God's Grace. It is freely given by God. One may either accept or reject God's Grace.

I can only write in generalities here, but how one accepts God's Grace, is with humbleness and child-like joy in reception.

The gift of God's Grace is less an intellectual acceptance of a message, as it is more an acceptance of a world-view.

The acceptance of faith in God is more an intellectual acceptance of the message, and less of a world-view.

(That is the sort of dynamic between God's Grace and faith in our lives.)

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#455860 Jun 24, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
since it has since been united with another church ..I had to look it up but yes it is/ was whatever..
You seem to have questions about Baptists as well as Catholics ox??
I see myself first and foremost as a Christian..
One of the best bible believing churches in our area is non denominational.
They baptize every year in the ocean
I was a Catholic for forty some odd years...I are now a member of an SBC church...your "baptist" church, from what I can gather, was/is not SBC...

Believe what you will....but there is no saving power in water as the Catholic teach...per Scripture...

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#455861 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
Like I said, Mary was told after the fact, not asked beforehand.
And what do we call impregnating a women without her prior permission?

**********

Mary asked, How shall this be...?

Gabriel said, "The Holy Ghost SHALL come upon you..." He didn't say, "has", but "shall".

What part of that don't you understand?

KayMarie

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455862 Jun 24, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
BE IT DONE TO ME ACCORDING TO THY WORDS.
She was asked ..She said YES.
She was not asked, she was told. After that fact.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455863 Jun 24, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I was taken for a sucker by theologians.
...for 70+ years.

WOW!! You really were delusional.....but then one day - WHA-LA!!....you seemed to have woken up from the dreamstate you were in.

What sounds to me, is that Christianity, on the day you decided to no longer be a so-called "Christian", it must've given you a revelation that didn't sit well with your previous belief.

Hmmmm......sounds like anger and frustration is your god now, instead of trying to reconcile those specific traits within your self and towards others.

Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
That is the only reason I am on this forum.
As you can probably tell, I still don't believe you.

Self.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I want to give others the chance to see the lies that took me so many years of study to "SPOT."
Well, the way you are going about it....IMO - isn't going to help.

Expressing your anger through your posts towards what you "hate", has been proven in many cases, to actually reverse that which is hoped for as the result.

In other words, people don't really read your posts for the information, because they have already read your frustration and anger. Thus these traits become the primary focus.

Like I suggested before, researching the quotes you use, instead of taking them as "golden nuggets of info" is really just lackadaisical.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Those who don't want to see ... won't see ... and that is YOUR choice.
Yep - Self.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455864 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
If you are the weatherman, and you see all the signs of rain, and 'know' that it is going to rain, does that mean that the weather cannot change? LOL
God, being omniscient, simply means that He knows whether I will change my mind. I still have the 'free will' to change it.
KayMarie
You are confusing prediction with omniscience.

Prediction is using the past to predict the future, and is subject to fallibility. Omniscience is to know the future as a fact, as one knows the past or present.

So again, if God knows the future (not predictive, but omniscient), then fate necessarily exists. And if fate exists, then free will cannot. The two are mutually exclusive.

If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455865 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
Well, its hard to reproduce in concrete terms, so let me leave you with a description of what "it" seems like to me, what you describe.
Ego-Echo= self/Self
It is more like a projection of one's own actions and choices which determines the echo through time and space. If as you say it all originates in oneself, then when the river of sound moves into the desert and evaporates, it is no longer viable for Life.
And I am not saying that "it" does not exist, but rather, I find submission to God as the Way, God has chosen for me, and which I follow.
So in a way, I see a connection to the origin, and end in a different way. We may be describing something similar, or even intersecting in points?
"I find submission to God as the Way, God has chosen for me, and which I follow."
- "God" didn't make any decisions - the Bible was written by men.

Debunked.
Jumper The Wise

Owensboro, KY

#455866 Jun 24, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
To an all-powerful, all-knowing deity that demands perfection from humans ... free will would be the furthest thought from his creative "mind."
Silly nonsense!
I don't know about you, but had I been asked if I wanted to be created, knowing I would pay with suffering, I would have refused the "offer."
As is all theological nonsense ... free will is a myth.
I checked with the shipping department 'upstairs'.
They said they discountenued your model some years ago,but a few escaped from quality control.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455867 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
Well, its hard to reproduce in concrete terms, so let me leave you with a description of what "it" seems like to me, what you describe.
Ego-Echo= self/Self
It is more like a projection of one's own actions and choices which determines the echo through time and space. If as you say it all originates in oneself, then when the river of sound moves into the desert and evaporates, it is no longer viable for Life.
And I am not saying that "it" does not exist, but rather, I find submission to God as the Way, God has chosen for me, and which I follow.
So in a way, I see a connection to the origin, and end in a different way. We may be describing something similar, or even intersecting in points?
BTW - "ego" is a characteristic of Self, not "the Self" entirely.

You are confused in the information that was told to you.

Or is this just your opinion and observation? If it is, you are wrong in your findings.

Please list the citation - academic - that shows that ego is equal to Self.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#455868 Jun 24, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Where in the Bible does it say either that Adam died "spiritually", or that God meant that Adam would die "spiritually"?
Sorry, that doesn't wash.
Adam did die physically later, but he would have anyway, because he was not immoral to begin with.
wilderide:

If one strictly interprets words from definitions, then you are correct.

But here is the dilemma you and I face, if you enthrone one's definitions of words in the mind, then concepts die. There is no growth, and one dies.

It is sort of like you are asking me to make music without harmony, when you ask/state that Adam did not die spiritually when he turned away from God.

(Indeed I can make linear points, but not allowing them to be connected with harmony, likewise, you may as well just throw letters at random with a question mark at the end, and expect an answer.)

A short answer: The wages of sin is death(Death can be spiritual and physical), but the gift of God is eternal life.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#455869 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
Adam would have died anyway, because he was never immortal to begin with.
God said Adam would die when he ate the fruit, and he didn't. Either God lied or God was wrong. It's as simple as that.
**********

God said that Adam was 'good'...and had he not eaten the fruit, he would have remained where the Tree of Life was available to him. He could have lived forever there.

God said, "In the day that you eat that forbidden fruit, you will die."
God's days are 'as a thousand years' of our days. Adam died at 930 years...the first of God's days allotted to him.

It's as simple as that...
KayMarie

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455870 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age Spiritual Leader:
A lot to think on here.
I find your opinion partially true. There is another part beside religion being a hindrance to human potential, and that it provides discipline and definition, and therefore can become a means through which one is enlightened.
I suppose it depends on how one applies oneself to religion, which makes it a tool for liberation, or one of enslavement.
If you practice your religion by taking long hikes, and reflecting on the beauty of nature, then some would call it a hindrance, and others might not. But it is still your practice, and it is still religion. So religion is necessary.(By the way, I make this a part of my religion).
I see the little glints of "gold" appearing.

This is where honesty can show you the whole nugget.

But then again - we are still talking about the Self, so in essence, you wouldn't be doing anything without it.

:o)

Keep digging deeper into the thoughts you have, that is where the treasure lies.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455871 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
God, being omniscient, simply means that He knows whether I will change my mind. I still have the 'free will' to change it.
Just thought I'd add:

Whether you change your mind a hundred or a thousand times, ultimately you make decisions and ultimately things happen. So whether you dither about something or not is immaterial.

If X and Y are mutually exclusive of one another (i.e., turning right or left, for example; you cannot do both simultaneously), and if God knows for a fact (omnisciently) that you will do X, can you do Y instead?

If God is omniscient, then no. You, not being omniscient yourself, might think you have a choice, but in reality you would not, because it was already predestined that you would do X. So, no free will. Of course the problem then is, if there is no free will, then Christian ideology falls completely apart.

Moreover, there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that God is omniscient to begin with. In fact, there is quite alot to suggest that God is not. God is surprised, angered, and even, in one Hebrew battle, defeated by an opponent with iron chariot wheels. God is also not infallible, as the flood story suggests. If God were omniscient, then the flood would never have been necessary, nor would God need to promise humans never to commit global genocide again (a tacit acknowledgement by God that, perhaps, global genocide was not the best option to a problem. I.e., a mistake).

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#455872 Jun 24, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
005
<quoted text>
My damnation????!!!! You think I wrote that Scripture?????
You use your bible to bash others. Seems you revel in it.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455873 Jun 24, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
God, being omniscient, simply means that He knows whether I will change my mind. I still have the 'free will' to change it.
KayMarie
Prove that "God" has knowledge you will change your mind.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#455874 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
One does not earn God's Grace. It is freely given by God. One may either accept or reject God's Grace.
I can only write in generalities here, but how one accepts God's Grace, is with humbleness and child-like joy in reception.
The gift of God's Grace is less an intellectual acceptance of a message, as it is more an acceptance of a world-view.
The acceptance of faith in God is more an intellectual acceptance of the message, and less of a world-view.
(That is the sort of dynamic between God's Grace and faith in our lives.)
Is God's grace arbitrary?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#455875 Jun 24, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
One does not earn God's Grace. It is freely given by God. One may either accept or reject God's Grace.
I can only write in generalities here, but how one accepts God's Grace, is with humbleness and child-like joy in reception.
The gift of God's Grace is less an intellectual acceptance of a message, as it is more an acceptance of a world-view.
The acceptance of faith in God is more an intellectual acceptance of the message, and less of a world-view.
(That is the sort of dynamic between God's Grace and faith in our lives.)
Self.

No organized religion is required.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#455876 Jun 24, 2013
who="wilderide"
Maybe Mary would have agreed anyway, but no attempt was made to ask her permission beforehand. Which is highly misogynistic, to say the least.
It is also one of the ways Jesus would have been disqualified as the savior, because Hebrew prophesy said the savior would be fully human, born of two human parents descended from the House of David. not a demi-god. Joseph's adoption doesn't count either.
**********

Tell me where prophesy says that Jesus would have two human parents?

Scripture declares that He will be of the order of Melchizedek, "without father".

KayMarie

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