Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#453201
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Religions have the Three C's.
1.) Creed-what they believe
2.) Code-what they practice
3.) Cult-a following
So what is your point? It's all in the same package of self-indulgence.

Luther was also self-indulgent in his creed ... believing he was the sole owner of absolute truth.

Such nonsense they pedaled that was swallowed whole by gullible followers.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

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#453202
Jun 17, 2013
 
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
You better join Judaism ... or you will not be favored by the one god. I'm warning you for your own good.
That god created good and evil, and he knows how to use both weapons for his own cause.
He allowed souls to wander knowing they would suffer if they did wander ... that was the good-"hearted" part of the god. Imagine what his evil side is capable of doing when he gets in an evil mood.
Join Judaism ... for your own good.
tongue in cheek
I'll continue to remain with the Historical and biblical TRUTH of Jesus Christ, in and through His One True Catholic Church with Daily Mass and the Eucharist (Jesus Christs TRUE body and TRUE blood,---that is if it is "OK" with you!! Why don't you, June, take your own advise an join Judaism.(for your own good)...Then you can "complain, criticize, and find fault" directly--with THEIR faith!!! Oh yes--if forgot---tongue in cheek!!!!!
Dan

Wilmington, DE

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#453203
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Religion A Delusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. Thus, Islam is peace.
My (very limited) understanding of the Quaran is that it has approximately 100 verses promulgating war/violence against with the nonbeliever.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

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#453204
Jun 17, 2013
 

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RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
But having fund raising by telling people they coukd cut down time in purgatory for themselves and lived ones in return for money is just plain wrong.
And when or if the Church condemned the process after Luther brought the attention..
DID THE CC refund the money and let the contributors know it did Not buy them anything .
Or did they use the money to build the VATICAN..
And in modern day does the CC use Vatican Money fir these lawsuits.
Or do the diocese pay by closing poorer parishes and selling the REAL ESTATE.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines...
http://www.boston.com/news/specials/parishes/
I want to "cut down time" in purgatory. If I spend time in service to the poor, give money to them, help build cathedrals in order to spread the gospel and save souls, open soup kitchens, deidicate certain times of the week in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament, pray for the souls of the deceased, etc., I will be cutting down time in purgatory.

There was consolidation of several Catholic Churches in Minneapolis/St. Paul recently. The decendants of the German, Polish and Italian Catholics who formed these parishes a century ago have mostly moved out of the city and relocated to the suburbs where many new Churches were built. The inner cities are now populated with non-Catholic minorities. There wasn't a need for the parishes there anymore.

Protestant communities are shutting their doors all the time. A pentecostal building was shut down a mile from my business just a few weeks ago. Why do you think that is?
Religion A Delusion

Orlando, FL

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#453205
Jun 17, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Gosh, JS, women used to have to wear hats at Mass, now they don't.
Doctrinal sea change there.
:)
Women can now act as lay ministers too (if that is the right term), administering the Eucharist in special situations.

That's another part of major doctrinal changes with regard to women in the church.

Of course, there have been changes in the highest level of Church dogma.

But if you don't know the levels of belief, how would you know?

No matter, it's all imaginary. That's why you don't bother with such basics.
Dan

Wilmington, DE

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#453206
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Religion A Delusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Oops, you just changed.
Well, my interpretation of the teachings of a faith I don't practice may not be reliable.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#453207
Jun 17, 2013
 

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By preaching two separate kingdoms, it is my guess that Luther never had a clue that he was the first cause of the law that ultimately separated religion from government.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>

Reformation

At the beginning of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther articulated a doctrine of the two kingdoms. According to James Madison, perhaps one of the most important modern proponents of the separation of church and state, Luther's doctrine of the two kingdoms marked the beginning of the modern conception of separation of church and state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_ch ...

Dan

Wilmington, DE

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#453208
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, really?
_________
Romans 3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith...
...27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
*****
Romans 11:6 And IF BY GRACE, THEN IT CANNOT BE BASED ON WORKS; IF IT WERE, GRACE WOULD NO LONGER BE GRACE.
****
Galatians 2:19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I DO NOT SET ASIDE THE GRACE OF GOD, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
*****
Ephesians 2:8 FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH--and this is not from yourselves, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD--9 NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast.
*****
Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
__________
I probably could have found more, but I've got a lot of other things to do today.
One other thing, though--I am well aware that Martin Luther was no saint, and he himself would have been the first to agree with that. Some of his writings are deeply troubling, especially those regarding the Jews. Most of these however were written by the old and sick Luther, in the last years of his life, and age and illness have been to known to derail even the most stable people. Luther would have been absolutely horrified if he could have looked 400 years into the future and seen the Nazis using his writings to help justify their atrocities.
Just Sayin, don't waste your time trying to use the fact that Luther was himself a sinful human being to diminish his very real accomplishments or his rediscovery of the fact--FACT--that Christians are saved by GOD'S GRACE ALONE
THROUGH FAITH ALONE
IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE.
It won't work. Trying to use Luther's imperfections to discredit this beautiful, amazing truth will fail as completely as trying to use Martin Luther King's extramarital affairs to discredit him as a man of peace. And if you want an example a bit closer to home, consider this: John Paul II was a great man, beloved all over the world and by many non-Catholics as well. I admired him deeply myself. But long before he died he knew that the Church was protecting thousands of pedophile priests and he helped protect them. It was left to Pope Benedict XVI, less well-known, less well-liked, to grapple with the worst of the problem.
Yes, really.

Christian belief and practice until the Reformation did NOT include the notion or practice of "Sola Scriptura".
Dan

Wilmington, DE

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#453209
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, really?
_________
Romans 3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith...
...27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
*****
Romans 11:6 And IF BY GRACE, THEN IT CANNOT BE BASED ON WORKS; IF IT WERE, GRACE WOULD NO LONGER BE GRACE.
****
Galatians 2:19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I DO NOT SET ASIDE THE GRACE OF GOD, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
*****
Ephesians 2:8 FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH--and this is not from yourselves, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD--9 NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast.
*****
Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
__________
I probably could have found more, but I've got a lot of other things to do today.
One other thing, though--I am well aware that Martin Luther was no saint, and he himself would have been the first to agree with that. Some of his writings are deeply troubling, especially those regarding the Jews. Most of these however were written by the old and sick Luther, in the last years of his life, and age and illness have been to known to derail even the most stable people. Luther would have been absolutely horrified if he could have looked 400 years into the future and seen the Nazis using his writings to help justify their atrocities.
Just Sayin, don't waste your time trying to use the fact that Luther was himself a sinful human being to diminish his very real accomplishments or his rediscovery of the fact--FACT--that Christians are saved by GOD'S GRACE ALONE
THROUGH FAITH ALONE
IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE.
It won't work. Trying to use Luther's imperfections to discredit this beautiful, amazing truth will fail as completely as trying to use Martin Luther King's extramarital affairs to discredit him as a man of peace. And if you want an example a bit closer to home, consider this: John Paul II was a great man, beloved all over the world and by many non-Catholics as well. I admired him deeply myself. But long before he died he knew that the Church was protecting thousands of pedophile priests and he helped protect them. It was left to Pope Benedict XVI, less well-known, less well-liked, to grapple with the worst of the problem.
Really.

Christian belief and practice until the Reformation did not contain the idea nor practice of "Sola Scriptura".

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#453210
Jun 17, 2013
 
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll continue to remain with the Historical and biblical TRUTH of Jesus Christ
It gives you a tremendous drug-induced high to believe that a Jew will come to earth to take you to eternal bliss in a hereafter.

I understand your thoughts. But your thoughts can't manipulate anything but your self.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

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#453211
Jun 17, 2013
 
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
the catholic institution is not The Church. People from every tribe , tongue, and nation who believe in Jesus Christ and are born again, are the Church of Christ.
the catholic religion, just like the protestant religion was not created by God.
God did not create a religion, Jesus ministry was not to start a religion, He came preaching the Kingdom of God.
The Holy Spirit uses whom He wishes, and anoints whom He wishes with Spiritual Gifts.
There are 9 Gifts ,
•The Word of Knowledge
•The Word of Wisdom
•The Gift of Prophecy
•The Gift of Faith
•The Gifts of Healings
•The Working of Miracles
•The Discerning of Spirits
•Different Kinds of Tongues
•The Interpretation of Tongues
They are for every member of the church of God;
3.“Do not quench the Spirit, do not despise prophecies.”(1 Thessalonians 5:19)
4.“Do not neglect the gift that is in you … Meditate on these things, give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all.”(1 Timothy 4:14)
5.“Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.”(2 Timothy 1:6)
Whatever gift the Holy Spirit has anointed you with, do not shun it.
every believer should go to the Lord in prayer and ask Him to release these 9 gifts through them anytime that He will want to do so. Let God know that you will be a willing vessel for the manifestations of these gifts,
9 Fruits of the Spirit are. Galatians 5:22
1.Love
2.Joy
3.Peace
4.Longsuffering
5.Kindness
6.Goodness
7.Faithfulness
8.Gentleness
9.Self-control
/www.bible-knowledge.com/
So you are saying that Jesus didn't establish a Church which is hierarchical and authoritative in nature and which is visible and definable and accessible and which holds the truth given to it by Jesus and teaches and protects this truth?

You are saying it's each man for himself, grab a bible and start banging. Clearly, surely, you see what a doctrinal mess that has ended up to be?

You say:
"People from every tribe , tongue, and nation who believe in Jesus Christ and are born again, are the Church of Christ."

So you say the "Church" Jesus (didn't) establish is made up of some amorphous blob of unidentifiable people?
ReginaM

Toms River, NJ

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#453212
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
Well it bothers them so badly because deep down they know the CC teaches the truth. But they want truth to be relative so that they can engage in their favorite sin. It pricks their consciences and they hate it. It's the same spirit of rebellion that prompted satan to remove himself from God's presence.
I guess these rabid anti-catholics are in better position than others who having known the truth but slink silently away never looking back. More than one conversion has happened because someone made an honest attempt to debunk the CC.
An honest attempt, yes. One cannot belong to XYZ church that says this is how our theology differs from that of the CC and then consider themselves informed. Like you, I would like to see specifics rather than the childish hit-and-run jabs we're being treated to. But, of course, that would take some actual thought.

Btw, I loved your post the other day about the priest you spoke to. He sounds like a real doll and I'm glad he told you some things that were difficult to hear. That means he's telling you the truth. Catholicism isn't always easy...the narrow path and all that. That's why we need prayers and support, lots of it!

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#453213
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, my interpretation of the teachings of a faith I don't practice may not be reliable.
If you practice a faith, does THAT make the dogmas in which you have the faith reliable???

If so, to be fair, that must mean that all faith in all religion is reliable.

:)
Religion A Delusion

Orlando, FL

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#453214
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure Jesus said we could have all his powers, unless you mean that He said we could have the fruits of the Holy Spirit. In that way becoming like Jesus. A tough row to hoe without help.
Yes, here's the link:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_17...
Or just go to Amazon.com and search in the book section.
I've never had a problem ordering from Amazon.
You know if I find any inconsistancy in the Gospel of FSM with what you've been preaching here, I'm going to have to let you know about it.
;-)
Yes, thank you for pointing out any inconsistency with what I say and the FSM Bible. I have it in my Amazon basket, waiting for a few more things for free shipping. Soon, I will hold all the knowledge in the Universe.

hojo

Minneapolis, MN

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#453215
Jun 17, 2013
 
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
You can keep on believing that as a Catholic you are special if it so pleases you ... but it's common sense that a god that favored Jews would not betray or confuse the Jews by claiming they must become Catholic.
The god would command that they stop straying FROM Judaism, and practice Judaism as Judaism should be practiced.
Of course religion is all based on hearsay from the get-go, so the idea that it confuses people is a given.
Myths were created by theologians TO confuse (divide and conquer)... and they succeeded.
Sorry June, but your editorialized "personal opinion" has had "absolutely no effect" (nor ever will) on my own personal faith in Jesus Christ, His One True Apostolic Catholic Church and the Salvation that Jesus offers us by HIS life, death and resurrection manifested in and through HIS CATHOLIC CHURCH. The only "confusion" that you speak of (June) which is evident in all of your comments and references, is in your own disneyland "merry-go-round" life that you have chosen to live!!!

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#453216
Jun 17, 2013
 
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe so, but some creeds are not allowed to be defined except in the most broadest, and useless, extent. Such as the Church of Christ says "the only creed we hold to is the NT."
By those who don't believe them, ALL creeds are defined as useless, and often not just useless ... but the most overused negative word in religion ... "evil" in their intent.

Right-fighters in religion often point out-ward when they use that word "evil."

It's a nasty self-indulgent habit.
Dan

Wilmington, DE

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#453217
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Religion A Delusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Women can now act as lay ministers too (if that is the right term), administering the Eucharist in special situations.
That's another part of major doctrinal changes with regard to women in the church.
Of course, there have been changes in the highest level of Church dogma.
But if you don't know the levels of belief, how would you know?
No matter, it's all imaginary. That's why you don't bother with such basics.
Women's roles such as EME (helping pass out communion) and reading on the altar is "practice".

Their status RE: Ordination is "doctrine".

The Assumption of Mary is relatively recent "dogma", a core principle that must be upheld.

Here's what the Church believes. Please highlight the teachings that have changed.

"We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen."
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

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#453218
Jun 17, 2013
 
Religion A Delusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Before pointing fingers at others with "muddy mind," why not show us a clear mind?
How many levels of dogma are there in your church?
Also, tell us what level you are discussing.
Otherwise, isn't your mind muddy too?
The division of dogma follow the lines of the division s of faith. Dogmas can be (1) general or special; (2) material or formal; (3) pure or mixed; (4) symbolic or non-symbolic; (5) and they can differ according to their various degrees of necessity.

(1) General dogmas are a part of the revelation meant for mankind and transmitted from the Apostles; while special dogmas are the truths revealed in private revelations. Special dogmas, therefore, are not, strictly speaking, dogmas at all; they are not revealed truths transmitted from the Apostles; nor are they defined or proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful generally.

(2) Dogmas are called material (or Divine, or dogmas in themselves, in se) when abstraction is made from their definition by the Church, when they are considered only as revealed; and they are called formal (or Catholic, or "in relation to us", quoad nos) when they are considered both as revealed and defined. Again, it is evident that material dogmas are not dogmas in the strict sense of the term.

(3) Pure dogmas are those which can be known only from revelation, as the Trinity, Incarnation, etc.; while mixed dogmas are truths which can be known from revelation or from philosophical reasoning as the existence and attributes of God. Both classes are dogmas in the strict sense, when considered as revealed and defined.

(4) Dogmas contained in the symbols or creeds of the Church are called symbolic; the remainder are non-symbolic. Hence all the articles of the Apostles' Creed are dogmas — but not all dogmas are called technically articles of faith, though an ordinary dogma is sometimes spoken of as an article of faith.

(5) Finally, there are dogmas belief in which is absolutely necessary as a means to salvation, while faith in others is rendered necessary only by Divine precept; and some dogmas must be explicitly known and believed, while with regard to others implicit belief is sufficient.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05089a.htm

It's little more to chew on than most proty religions have.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#453219
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Religion A Delusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, thank you for pointing out any inconsistency with what I say and the FSM Bible. I have it in my Amazon basket, waiting for a few more things for free shipping. Soon, I will hold all the knowledge in the Universe.
Are you just now informing me that your monster god has not kept you up on ALL the knowledge in his high realm of spaghetti???

What on earth is this world coming to?

:)
Religion A Delusion

Orlando, FL

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#453220
Jun 17, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, my interpretation of the teachings of a faith I don't practice may not be reliable.
I didn't say "interpretation.."

I asked you about how you judge Islam? I believe you and most of us here have made a judgement.

I base my opinion of a religion on what it produces, the results.

Maybe my question was too confusing, so I'll re-phrase:

Did Jesus tell you to judge them by their words or their deeds?

Now that's simple -- words or deeds?

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