Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 637006 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#452859 Jun 16, 2013
Selene100 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't understand what this has to do with what I posted.
The words of the old testament were changed by the Catholic authors to have different meanings than they had in the original writings.

So what you read in the new testament that was supposed be truth from the old testament is not the way the Jews meant it to understood.

Now do you get it???
Anthony MN

United States

#452860 Jun 16, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
There was indeed "outright selling of indulgences." This was the tipping point where Martin Luther was concerned: he was sick over the claim by the Catholic Church (of that time) that salvation could be purchased by money or any other means.
The Popes of that day, Julius II and Leo X (1513–1521)wanted to build this modest little dwelling we know today as St. Peter's Basilica.
______
"Pope Julius II planned far more for St Peter's than Nicholas V's program of repair or modification. Julius was at that time planning his own tomb, which was to be designed and adorned with sculpture by Michelangelo and placed within St Peter's. In 1505 Julius made a decision to demolish the ancient basilica and replace it with a monumental structure to house his enormous tomb and "aggrandize himself in the popular imagination".
_____
Such a huge, elaborate structure wasn't going to be cheap.
_____
"One method employed to finance the building of St. Peter's Basilica was the granting of indulgences in return for contributions. A major promoter of this method of fund-raising was Albrecht, Archbishop of Mainz and Magdeburg, who had to clear debts owed to the Roman Curia by contributing to the rebuilding program. To facilitate this, he appointed the German Dominican preacher Johann Tetzel, whose salesmanship provoked a scandal.
A German Augustinian priest, Martin Luther, wrote to Archbishop Albrecht arguing against this "selling of indulgences". He also included his "Disputation of Martin Luther on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences", which came to be known as The 95 Theses. This became a factor in starting the Reformation, the birth of Protestantism."
__________
Both quotes above are from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter%27s_B...
I have a great deal of respect for the Roman Catholic Church, and I particularly admire its uncompromising stance on the value of human life. But there's no point in covering up the mistakes of the past, in the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church (including my own LCMS), American history or any other place. Better to face them squarely and learn from them.
Full Question

One of the causes of the Reformation was the selling of indulgences. Does the Catholic Church still sell them?
Answer

That's like asking, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" The Catholic Church does not now nor has it ever approved the sale of indulgences. This is to be distinguished from the undeniable fact that individual Catholics (perhaps the best known of them being the German Dominican Johann Tetzel [1465-1519]) did sell indulgences--but in doing so they acted contrary to explicit Church regulations. This practice is utterly opposed to the Catholic Church's teaching on indulgences, and it cannot be regarded as a teaching or practice of the Church.

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/does-t...

My question; do TV evangelicals like Benny Hinn and so many others not participate in even worse behavior as their own private fortunes are from gullible poor fools?

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#452861 Jun 16, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Hebrews 11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see...
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible...
...6 And WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD, BECAUSE ANYONE WHO COMES TO HIM MUST BELIEVE THAT HE EXISTS AND THAT HE REWARDS THOSE WHO EARNESTLY SEEK HIM.
__________
Read that again, June.
"WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD"
I don't think God is interested in "dogma" so much as He is in whether we believe He exists and whether we love Him.
Faith is certainly in that which is unseen.

But we feel His presence in our souls.

I prefer to believe I will see Him someday..rather than have NO hope .

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452862 Jun 16, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
They change their teaching to please as many of their members as possible. They do not tithe as the Bible teaches...so they do not want to "rock the boat"...members with deflated egos, hurt feelings do not give as much in the collection plate...

Now it is: I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
The Apostles' Creed is one of the three great ecumenical Creeds of Christendom, which are believed, confessed, taught and upheld by ALL denominations worthy of being called "Christian" and is the oldest of the three.(The other two are the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed).

For some reason, the word "creed" seems to put people off nowawdays. I don't know why, because a "creed" is simply a brief statement of what one believes.

Only the Lord Himself can see into a person's heart and know who truly belongs to Him and who does not. Having said that, however, and speaking ONLY for myself, I accept as Christian any person or denomination who holds to the core doctrinal truths contained and expressed in the Creeds. I say "holds to" because there are many Christians who believe what the Creeds say, even though they may not be able to recite the Creeds themselves. Baptists, for instance, certainly uphold the doctrinal basics in the Creeds, although they are usually not trained to memorize the Creeds themselves.

Here is the Apostles' Creed, in its entirety:

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic* Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

* catholic means "universal" and is not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452863 Jun 16, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
The words of the old testament were changed by the Catholic authors to have different meanings than they had in the original writings.
So what you read in the new testament that was supposed be truth from the old testament is not the way the Jews meant it to understood.
Now do you get it???
What evidence do you have that Catholic authors changed anything in the Old Testament?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452864 Jun 16, 2013
By the way, June, have you answered my question yet?

Why are you such a bitter, vindictive harpy?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452865 Jun 16, 2013
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
hey roberta welcome to this board i was luthren once i like your posts:)
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
me too:)
Thanks, Marge :) This thread moves REAALL fast, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. I'm glad to meet you, too :)

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452866 Jun 16, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith is certainly in that which is unseen.
But we feel His presence in our souls.
I prefer to believe I will see Him someday..rather than have NO hope .
Well said, amen and me too :)

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452867 Jun 16, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Full Question
One of the causes of the Reformation was the selling of indulgences. Does the Catholic Church still sell them?

Answer
That's like asking, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" The Catholic Church does not now nor has it ever approved the sale of indulgences. This is to be distinguished from the undeniable fact that individual Catholics (perhaps the best known of them being the German Dominican Johann Tetzel [1465-1519]) did sell indulgences--but in doing so they acted contrary to explicit Church regulations. This practice is utterly opposed to the Catholic Church's teaching on indulgences, and it cannot be regarded as a teaching or practice of the Church.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/does-t...

My question; do TV evangelicals like Benny Hinn and so many others not participate in even worse behavior as their own private fortunes are from gullible poor fools?
I'd say that it is fair to compare their money-raising tactics to those of the RCC selling indulgences 500 years ago. I rarely watch televangelists as I don't like them either. There are some I'm not familiar with, so I won't comment on them, but I despise Hinn.

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#452868 Jun 16, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
The words of the old testament were changed by the Catholic authors to have different meanings than they had in the original writings.
So what you read in the new testament that was supposed be truth from the old testament is not the way the Jews meant it to understood.
Now do you get it???
Can you give an example of those changes? And have you studied Judaism?
Anthony MN

Andover, MN

#452869 Jun 16, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
You will never learn!!!!
The background to Luther's Ninety-Five Theses centers on practices within the Catholic Church regarding baptism and absolution.
Significantly, the Theses rejected the validity of indulgences (remissions of temporal punishment due for sins which have already been forgiven).
They also view with great cynicism the practice of indulgences being sold, and thus the penance for sin representing a financial transaction rather than genuine contrition.
Luther's Theses argued that the sale of indulgences was a gross violation of the original intention of confession and penance, and that Christians were being falsely told that they could find absolution through the purchase of indulgences.
Did you get this info from the millionaire John Hagee?
Anthony MN

Andover, MN

#452870 Jun 16, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
When a person bought an indulgence, the church promised them a pardon for their past sins. It was the medieval equivalent of a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. It was commercialized salvation and did not require a change of heart.
Source(s):
Ninety-Five Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences by Dr. Martin Luther
Indulgences do not "pardon past sins" you idiot.

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#452871 Jun 16, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Full Question
One of the causes of the Reformation was the selling of indulgences. Does the Catholic Church still sell them?
Answer
That's like asking, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" The Catholic Church does not now nor has it ever approved the sale of indulgences. This is to be distinguished from the undeniable fact that individual Catholics (perhaps the best known of them being the German Dominican Johann Tetzel [1465-1519]) did sell indulgences--but in doing so they acted contrary to explicit Church regulations. This practice is utterly opposed to the Catholic Church's teaching on indulgences, and it cannot be regarded as a teaching or practice of the Church.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/does-t...
My question; do TV evangelicals like Benny Hinn and so many others not participate in even worse behavior as their own private fortunes are from gullible poor fools?
I don't listen to him or send money..I tried a couple of times..for a few minutes.

Those who get rich ..if he does..from preaching. Do not have respect from most Christian s. Imo.

SAMARITANS PURSE.ORG

Is the one charity I know of that uses its contributions,strictly fir each place it goes to aid people.

I know,Catholic charities have done great work.

So u bless I can be sure my money is nit in someone's pocket..It does not leave mine

One thing maybe you can answer is why with all of the Vatican bank and riches..So many local parishes parishioners closed in the past few years..I know it affected 12in my area and out hardship especially on poorer people. I thought it was one CHURCH.

I know they have had to pay out money but dud that come from the diocese that have closed the parishes and sold off the buildings

Or from the Vatican.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/...

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines...

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452872 Jun 16, 2013
Religion A Delusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you, but factually correct. So all you can do is change IDs and call names.
I am honored.
No, you're not correct. What you ARE is tragically mistaken. You are refusing God's gift of salvation and that is heartbreaking.

"Roberta G" is the only nick I've ever used on topix.com .
ReginaM

Toms River, NJ

#452873 Jun 16, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd say that it is fair to compare their money-raising tactics to those of the RCC selling indulgences 500 years ago. I rarely watch televangelists as I don't like them either. There are some I'm not familiar with, so I won't comment on them, but I despise Hinn.
The Catholic Church did not sell indulgences. Didn't you read the post that explained it?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#452874 Jun 16, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Indulgences do not "pardon past sins" you idiot.
No, they didn't, but that is what the buyers were PROMISED. Oxbow is right about that.
Anthony MN

Andover, MN

#452875 Jun 16, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd say that it is fair to compare their money-raising tactics to those of the RCC selling indulgences 500 years ago. I rarely watch televangelists as I don't like them either. There are some I'm not familiar with, so I won't comment on them, but I despise Hinn.
St. Peter's was financed with donations. It's the spiritual home to 1.2 billion Catholic Christians 500 years later, open to us all. Today's televangelists finance their personal fortunes with donations. Hardly a fair comparison.
Anthony MN

Andover, MN

#452876 Jun 16, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
The Apostles' Creed is one of the three great ecumenical Creeds of Christendom, which are believed, confessed, taught and upheld by ALL denominations worthy of being called "Christian" and is the oldest of the three.(The other two are the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed).
For some reason, the word "creed" seems to put people off nowawdays. I don't know why, because a "creed" is simply a brief statement of what one believes.
Only the Lord Himself can see into a person's heart and know who truly belongs to Him and who does not. Having said that, however, and speaking ONLY for myself, I accept as Christian any person or denomination who holds to the core doctrinal truths contained and expressed in the Creeds. I say "holds to" because there are many Christians who believe what the Creeds say, even though they may not be able to recite the Creeds themselves. Baptists, for instance, certainly uphold the doctrinal basics in the Creeds, although they are usually not trained to memorize the Creeds themselves.
Here is the Apostles' Creed, in its entirety:
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic* Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.
* catholic means "universal" and is not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church.
Very few of your protestant brethren who call themselves Christian confess, believe and teach the creed.
Anthony MN

United States

#452877 Jun 16, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they didn't, but that is what the buyers were PROMISED. Oxbow is right about that.
Wrong. The "pardon" comes in the sacrament of confession. An indulgence is not for the forgiveness or pardon of sin, it is for the remission of the punishment of sin.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#452878 Jun 16, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, the Church never taught selling indulgences or torture of the Jews. Those things were done by bad guys contrary to Church teachings.
Bl. John Paul II apologized for those bad guys.
--------

Historical facts per a participant and an eye witness...Luther.....

31. The man who actually buys indulgences is as rare as he who is really penitent; indeed, he is exceedingly rare.

35. They who teach that contrition is not necessary on the part of those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessional privileges preach unchristian doctrine.

42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend that the buying of indulgences should in any way be compared with works of mercy.

43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who buys indulgences.

45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet gives his money for indulgences, does not buy papal indulgences but God's wrath.

46. Christians are to be taught that, unless they have more than they need, they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander it on indulgences.

47. Christians are to be taught that they buying of indulgences is a matter of free choice, not commanded.

48 Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting indulgences, needs and thus desires their devout prayer more than their money.

51. Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.

57. That indulgences are not temporal treasures is certainly clear, for many indulgence sellers do not distribute them freely but only gather them.

66. The treasures of indulgences are nets with which one now fishes for the wealth of men.

69. Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of papal indulgences with all reverence.

82. Such as: "Why does not the pope empty purgatory for the sake of holy love and the dire need of the souls that are there if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a church? The former reason would be most just; the latter is most trivial.

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