Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 548,943
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#442066 May 17, 2013
Regina wrote:
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians, who clearly understood them in the sense that we do today—that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).
The Didache
"After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water.... If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Ignatius of Antioch
"[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia ... chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).
"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit" (ibid., 18:2).
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-trinity
One questoin...Does it say anywhere in Matthew..."Jesus of Nazareth"?

BTW "waters" was the "abyss"(nun) spoken of in the "Old Kingdom" of Egypt.

BTW- If "lineage" was determined by "male" succession(as was everyone preceding), then Jesus born of "Mary" was totally out of the picture of succession of lineage.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#442068 May 17, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
IOW, You don't have to even read the bible or go any church...just blindly accept Jesus as you savior and that is it HUH?
If you say you are it -you are it-YER SAVED!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahh! <SNORT> Hahahahahahahahahahh!
Being a Christian and being "saved" are different things.

I don't understand what is so funny. What do you mean by "blindly accept Jesus"?

Being a Christian is much more than simply saying it, as I mentioned before, it implies action.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#442069 May 17, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not the question. The question is...are the gospels accurate to the sayings and events at all.
Early writings provide evidence that they are "elaborated" "highly"...and with an agenda of the "universal church".
...and symbolism - a simple way to explain something when you have illiterate peeps, or when you are trying to teach something.

It was very commonplace then and before that time.

Using symbols as a way to communicate has been found all over the world in forms of petroglyphs and hieroglyphs.

Jesus used parables to communicate.

Christianity takes it to another extreme by twisting the tales to its liking, instead of earnestly seeking out the true meanings.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#442070 May 17, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>

*sighs* You bummed me out though. Want to know why? Well, your definition doesn't include the following:
"is someone who professes faith in the saving power of Christ's atonement and acts on it."
- just because one professes and acts upon this "saving power" - through "faith", you didn't describe how much faith is required.
- you didn't mention nothing on the Spirit, unless you are implying that the "saving power of Christ" is this Spirit. Is it?
Cheers!
You bring up some good points. However, how do you quantify how much "faith" is required? That is between you and God,and we can't hold up a "faith meter" to measure how "Christian" some one is.

As far as the Spirit, that was implied in my definition. If you profess faith and act on it, you will follow Christ and repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost from authorized ministers of Christ's gospel, and you will continue to follow Christ by following what the Holy Spirit tells you.

Basically five major steps:
-Faith
-Repentance
-Baptism
-Receive the Holy Ghost
-Endure

I'd consider some one a Christian no matter where they are on "steps" I listed...as long as they have faith and are progressing towards the later steps, which will happen in they are acting on true faith.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#442071 May 17, 2013
Regina wrote:
Justin Martyr
"We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein" (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).
Theophilus of Antioch
"It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place.... The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom" (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).
Irenaeus
"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty ... and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
"We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made.... We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit.... This rule of faith has been present since the beginning of the gospel, before even the earlier heretics" (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).
"And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (ibid.).
"Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and then you will understand what is meant by it. Observe now that I say the Father is other [distinct], the Son is other, and the Spirit is other. This statement is wrongly understood by every uneducated or perversely disposed individual, as if it meant diversity and implied by that diversity a separation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" (ibid., 9).
"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are, one essence, not one person, as it is said,‘I and my Father are one’[John 10:30], in respect of unity of being not singularity of number" (ibid., 25).
All written against the heresies...that of the "Roman" elite.

Why don't you supply the history and reasons for these cherrypicked eludes to all that transpired?
Of course if you are just "picking" them from an apologetic Bias site, I could understand the omission.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#442072 May 17, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hahahah!
It is true though.
My worst experience was when school began, and I learned the cruelty of other humans... and I became brutal(just like them) to survive and stand up for others like me, or others less capable...but I never forgot what I learned from my "friends".
Brutality is learned and unnatural.
Oh BT, I'm not disputing you, I just find in interesting.

It just goes to show what is seen through a child's eye, versus what we adults live. I sometimes wish I was a child again, but many times, I don't. So I compromised. I now collect action figures, comic books, and Hot wheels!
- "the one with the most toys wins!"

:o)

I sometimes dream of being able to sit with animals in their homes, but after having and raising ferrets for 10 yrs, I chose not to anymore.

:o)

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#442073 May 17, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
The Catholic Church did a lot to patron the arts. Think of all the music, architecture and art we would not have without the Catholic Church.
New Age writes:
Poetry and the troubadours of the 11th and 12th centuries played a big role as well. Laying claim to solely the CCis arrogant. People still had imaginations and personal talents without any relationship to that organization.
True, but the Church facilitated a lot. People still would have had imaginations without the church. However, would some of the great composers and artists and architects been able to devote as much time to refine their talent if they were not supported by the Church?

We can only guess.
Regina

Long Branch, NJ

#442074 May 17, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
One questoin...Does it say anywhere in Matthew..."Jesus of Nazareth"?
BTW "waters" was the "abyss"(nun) spoken of in the "Old Kingdom" of Egypt.
BTW- If "lineage" was determined by "male" succession(as was everyone preceding), then Jesus born of "Mary" was totally out of the picture of succession of lineage.
The attempt to picture Gnosticism as a mighty movement of the human mind towards the noblest and highest truth, a movement in some way parallel to that of Christianity, has completely failed. It has been abandoned by recent unprejudiced scholars such as W. Bousset and O. Gruppe, and it is to be regretted that it should have been renewed by an English writer, G.R.S. Mead, in "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten", an unscholarly and misleading work, which in English-speaking countries may retard the sober and true appreciation of Gnosticism as it was in historical fact.

Gnosticism was not an advance, it was a retrogression. It was born amidst the last throes of expiring cults and civilizations in Western Asia and Egypt. Though hellenized, these countries remained Oriental and Semitic to the core. This Oriental spirit — Attis of Asia Minor, Istar of Babylonia, Isis of Egypt, with the astrological and cosmogonic lore of the Asiatic world — first sore beset by Ahuramazda in the East, and then overwhelmed by the Divine greatness of Jesus Christ in the West, called a truce by the fusion of both Parseeism and Christianity with itself. It tried to do for the East what Neo-Platonism tried to do for the West. During at least two centuries it was a real danger to Christianity, though not so great as some modern writers would make us believe, as if the merest breath might have changed the fortunes of Gnostic, as against orthodox, Christianity.

Similar things are said of Mithraism and neo-Platonism as against the religion of Jesus Christ. But these sayings have more piquancy than objective truth. Christianity survived, and not Gnosticism, because the former was the fittest — immeasurably, nay infinitely, so. Gnosticism died not by chance, but because it lacked vital power within itself; and no amount of theosophistic literature, flooding English and German markets, can give life to that which perished from intrinsic and essential defects.(I concur.)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#442075 May 17, 2013
Regina wrote:
Origen
"For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine: that some part of the being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existent substances, that is, from a being outside himself, so that there was a time when he [the Son] did not exist" (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:4:1 [A.D. 225]).
"No, rejecting every suggestion of corporeality, we hold that the Word and the Wisdom was begotten out of the invisible and incorporeal God, without anything corporal being acted upon ... the expression which we employ, however that there was never a time when he did not exist is to be taken with a certain allowance. For these very words ‘when’ and ‘never’ are terms of temporal significance, while whatever is said of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is to be understood as transcending all time, all ages" (ibid.).
"For it is the Trinity alone which exceeds every sense in which not only temporal but even eternal may be understood. It is all other things, indeed, which are outside the Trinity, which are to be measured by time and ages" (ibid.).
Hippolytus
"The Word alone of this God is from God himself, wherefore also the Word is God, being the being of God. Now the world was made from nothing, wherefore it is not God" (Refutation of All Heresies 10:29 [A.D. 228]).
Novatian
"For Scripture as much announces Christ as also God, as it announces God himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed to be God who is of God.... Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called also God and the Son of God" (Treatise on the Trinity 11 [A.D. 235]).
----------
There's more..........
There certainly is!

Anyone who did not profess or conform to this belief was tortured, burned and/or murdered!---by order of Theodosius!

What a great religion!!!!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#442076 May 17, 2013
Regina wrote:
Justin Martyr
"We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein" (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).
Theophilus of Antioch
"It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place.... The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom" (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).
Irenaeus
"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty ... and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
"We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made.... We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit.... This rule of faith has been present since the beginning of the gospel, before even the earlier heretics" (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).
"And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (ibid.).
"Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and then you will understand what is meant by it. Observe now that I say the Father is other [distinct], the Son is other, and the Spirit is other. This statement is wrongly understood by every uneducated or perversely disposed individual, as if it meant diversity and implied by that diversity a separation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" (ibid., 9).
"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are, one essence, not one person, as it is said,‘I and my Father are one’[John 10:30], in respect of unity of being not singularity of number" (ibid., 25).
YEAH TEAM CATHOLIC!! GOOOOOO TEAM!!!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#442077 May 17, 2013
Regina wrote:
----------
There's more..........
There always is.....

*sighs*

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#442078 May 17, 2013
Regina wrote:
240 Jesus revealed that God is Father in an unheard-of sense: he is Father not only in being Creator; he is eternally Father in relation to his only Son, who is eternally Son only in relation to his Father: "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."64
241 For this reason the apostles confess Jesus to be the Word: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"; as "the image of the invisible God"; as the "radiance of the glory of God and the very stamp of his nature".65
242 Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father, that is, one only God with him.66 The second ecumenical council, held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed "the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father".67
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive...
THERE is the "Duality" I was telling you about.

You are digging your own grave here.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#442079 May 17, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, you didn't read all of what I wrote.
From the time of Moses down to the current time...we have had consistent witnesses, each witness verifying previous ones, that God exists.(hence empirical evidence, because previous visions have been verified) The Bible says (I gave quotes) that you can have the privilege of seeing God.
Wanna do something fun????

In the Books of Moses - switch "God" with alien/ET....and then read it.

:o)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#442080 May 17, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>

Basic five major steps:
-Faith
-Repentance
-Baptism
-Receive the Holy Ghost
-Endure
I'd consider some one a Christian no matter where they are on "steps" I listed...as long as they have faith and are progressing towards the later steps, which will happen in they are acting on true faith.
Ya know - I do agree that these steps are integral iin ones "spiritual development", but if you really look at them individually - and "are progressing towards the later steps":
- one does not need to be part of any religion in order to do any or all of them.(Baptism is just a ritual built around symbolism.
+ Water (the liquid used) is a symbol of Love in may cultures around the world and even in those mystical Tarot cards - through the symbol of a Cup holding or pouring water.
+ "pouring love over any individual" / "showing how Jesus loves you, by you participating freely in the ritual" - are both examples what Jesus supposed taught, and live by.
- All require one thing to begin and end each step. YOU. Self.

You will have to do better or show me how the RCC can help me attain the salvation they exclaim.
Regina

Long Branch, NJ

#442081 May 17, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
YEAH TEAM CATHOLIC!! GOOOOOO TEAM!!!
Thank you, thank you (bows deeply).

(Sorry for pulling an LTM, but he who asks for it, shall receive.)

Since: Sep 09

Fraser Lake, Canada

#442082 May 17, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrogn again. Hmmm....not getting the gold stars today, huh?
It was an anonymous name choice for many reasons.
a. I give credit to Edgar Cayce for the name.
b. I chose it solely, just to piss off people like you -*smiles*- oh and the Catholics too....*winks*....and whomever thinks that an anonymous login name is a catalyst to have people "follow" you.
You must still have that thorn in your side, which you must think came from me, huh?
In all truthfulness - I hope it stays there. It will remind you of me and my beliefs.
;o)
I don't believe that you gave Edgar Cayce credit for the avatar that you picked for your self.

From what you post, you seem to believe that your religious perspectives are far above others in hitting the mark of truth.

You think you are one smart cookie.
Regina

Long Branch, NJ

#442083 May 17, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
THERE is the "Duality" I was telling you about.
You are digging your own grave here.
There's not enough room to paste the rest here. It's obvious you don't know as much about Christianity as you think you do. Anthony was correct in suggesting you read the Early Church Fathers, for a start.

Since: Sep 09

Fraser Lake, Canada

#442084 May 17, 2013
Jumper The Wise wrote:
<quoted text>Out on a bender huh?
Well its nice to see the posters on this thread are wise to your little tricks.
AHHH you finally came over from the other thread.

You naught boy!

:)

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#442085 May 17, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
True, but the Church facilitated a lot. People still would have had imaginations without the church. However, would some of the great composers and artists and architects been able to devote as much time to refine their talent if they were not supported by the Church?
We can only guess.
Thanks for being honest.

"We can only guess."

If others weren't so arrogant or ignorant, these words would have soooo much impact because of their meaning and depth.
Regina

Long Branch, NJ

#442086 May 17, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
There always is.....
*sighs*
lol.....I knew you would appreciate it. Heck, why should the fundies have all the fun?

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