Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 574,467
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#440803 May 14, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
You realize that we can resolve this question with a simple prayer experiment, right?
<quoted text>
First off, when I raised kids - I would give them all the answers up front. I wouldn't just give them your choices and make then answer. One cannot make an accurate decision if the information isn't present.
Your analogy is irrelevant.
What?
So if your kid asked you for icecream before supper, you would say:
"Yes, no, not now. Pick one."?
Sorry I don't follow.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#440804 May 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Catholic Church.
The subject of the thread. That one.
Thanks
The Roman Catholic Church is not "the Church" according to this definition:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm

the term by which the New Testament writers denote the society founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. The derivation of the word has been much debated. It is now agreed that it is derived from the Greek kyriakon (cyriacon), i.e. the Lord's house, a term which from the third century was used, as well as ekklesia, to signify a Christian place of worship.

--OR--

The church, as has been seen, is a society formed of living men, not a mere mystical union of souls.

Yet we see in this man-made document the qualifiers:
"It certainly does not mean that none can be saved except those who are in visible communion with the Church. The Catholic Church has ever taught that nothing else is needed to obtain justification than an act of perfect charity and of contrition."

Hmmmm...no specific >>Roman Catholic<< here either.

Maybe to help me out, you will provide the link to your definition, just so we can clear the air in this regard.

Thanks!
Dan

Omaha, NE

#440805 May 14, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
A simple googling of the term "natural immortality" would have revealed this to you:
"This doctrine is based in part upon another theological argument, that if the human soul is naturally mortal, immortality ("eternal life") is therefore granted by God as a gift. "
But I believe you had an alternative motive by avoiding to answer.
I guess you don't have as keen as an eye that was initially thought of by me.
When I respond to you, I'll be sure to dumb it down for you, to help you better understand the religion you supposedly are practicing.
LOL. Great. Another expert on Catholicism who isn't Catholic. Never enough of those.

Actually, Tiger Lily claimed that the Catholic Church taught that concept and I asked her to cite that teaching. I don't think she understood it as you explain it here. I'll never know, since she dropped it to instead put forth her startling, never-before-seen revelations on how praying the Rosary is an affront to God.

Are you Tiger Lily's uncle or something?

Since: Sep 09

Smithers, Canada

#440806 May 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church teaches that Salvation is through the Church. They also teach that there is the possibility of salvation for those outside the Church.
If they teach that now, they have changed their format ... which means they never taught truth in the first place, which I already believed was a fact.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#440807 May 14, 2013
611
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
The ironic thing is you think YOUR speaking without error when interpreting sacred scriptures. In fact, so did your David Koresh; so does oldG; so does Confrint. Your all a bunch of hypocrites who take on more authority than any of our Popes put together.
Jesus Christ clearly made Peter the leader. Peter was the rock and you can't refute it unless you twist the scriptures to mean opposite of what was actually taught.
From your pope approved NABre:

Jesus’ church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation. That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

Repeat: That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

This is why you and your ilk cannot understand the Word of God:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned....
Dan

Omaha, NE

#440808 May 14, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
AWWWWW come on ... be honest. You are certain you are saved and also certain that Muslims won't be saved ... unless they become Christian.
If you don't believe that, you are NOT Christian ... you are off traveling in your own space.
Asked and answered.

Do you have something new, June?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#440809 May 14, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe we can know ourselves, because we can't know what might happen in the next minute to change our ways of perceiving.
For instance, I am not a killer of other humans at this moment, but I might be put in a position to kill in the next moment. Only then would I understand that it was easier to be a killer than I thought possible one moment before. Then I would have to get to know the "new" me.
Getting to know the self is never stationary, so from my perspective, one can never know the self.
Another example in my case, is that four years ago, I never thought I would be leaving my own previously treasured religious beliefs behind ... yet I slowly learned to accept my new and very different way of perceiving.
So, you would never make a judgement or act without considering truth, justice, or fairness as a basis of proper conduct. Is that what you are saying? They are the prime principles of decency and proper conduct.
If you dismiss that you can only become a liability in all interactions regarding your environment mentally and physically.
It is essential to any individual to learn and aquire knowledge and apply it to the best of their ability.
You can't possibly be ignorant to the degree that you think you can function or be of any value without it.
How did you come to the conclusion that your beliefs were incorrect?--knowledge you had gained in whatever way...then you made a decision leading to action.
What I am saying is one should obtain all the possible knowledge that is available(and it is available) and apply it using truth, justice and fairness to the best of one's ability. If one does not they are failing themselves and everything they interact with.
The unstable position of self is made more stable by applying what I have explained..The more one knows and understands, the more stable and less fearful of the "unknown" they become. In effect they are more at ease and have less difficulty with their environment, and it shows.
You seem to be under the impression that there is some secret mystical knowledge that you can poke a quarter into a machine and it will pop out. It requires effort and time to study and understand everything. If one is not willing to invest that effort, then they are responsible for their own willful ignorance, and the degree that it reflects their person.

Since: Sep 09

Smithers, Canada

#440810 May 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, some will be saved and others will not.
Do you see that you are certain your bible gave you truth?

You don't even say "maybe." You are definitive in your stance, and that is arrogance, and nothing BUT arrogance.

Without the bible in your hand and the words embedded in your brain ... you would have nothing to say ... NOTHING.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#440811 May 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Catholic Church.
The subject of the thread. That one.
Thanks
hmmmm....still no Roman Catholic here either:

Members of the Church
The foregoing account of the Church and of the principle of authority by which it is governed enables us to determine who are members of the Church and who are not. The membership of which we speak, is incorporation in the visible body of Christ. It has already been noted (VI) that a member of the Church may have forfeited the grace of God. In this case he is a withered branch of the true Vine; but he has not been finally broken off from it. He still belongs to Christ. Three conditions are requisite for a man to be a member of the Church.

1.In the first place, he must profess the true Faith, and have received the Sacrament of Baptism. The essential necessity of this condition is apparent from the fact that the Church is the kingdom of truth, the society of those who accept the revelation of the Son of God. Every member of the Church must accept the whole revelation, either explicitly or implicitly, by profession of all that the Church teaches. He who refuses to receive it, or who, having received it, falls away, thereby excludes himself from the kingdom (Titus 3:10 sq.). The Sacrament of Baptism is rightly regarded as part of this condition. By it those who profess the Faith are formally adopted as children of God (Ephesians 1:13), and an habitual faith is among the gifts bestowed in it. Christ expressly connects the two, declaring that "he who believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16; cf. Matthew 28:19).
2.It is further necessary to acknowledge the authority of the Church and of her appointed rulers. Those who reject the jurisdiction established by Christ are no longer members of His kingdom. Thus St. Ignatius lays it down in his Letter to the Church of Smyrna (no. 8): Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be; even as where Jesus may be there is the universal Church". In regard to this condition, the ultimate touchstone is to be found in communion with the Holy See. On Peter Christ founded his Church. Those who are not joined to that foundation cannot form part of the house of God.
3.The third condition lies in the canonical right to communion with the Church. In virtue of its coercive power the Church has authority to excommunicate notorious sinners. It may inflict this punishment not merely on the ground of heresy or schism, but for other grave offences. Thus St. Paul pronounces sentence of excommunication on the incestuous Corinthian (1 Corinthians 5:3). This penalty is no mere external severance from the rights of common worship. It is a severance from the body of Christ, undoing to this extent the work of baptism, and placing the excommunicated man in the condition of the heathen and the publican". It casts him out of God's kingdom; and the Apostle speaks of it as "delivering him over to Satan" (1 Corinthians 5:5; 1 Timothy 1:20).
Dan

Omaha, NE

#440812 May 14, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Catholic Church is not "the Church" according to this definition:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
the term by which the New Testament writers denote the society founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. The derivation of the word has been much debated. It is now agreed that it is derived from the Greek kyriakon (cyriacon), i.e. the Lord's house, a term which from the third century was used, as well as ekklesia, to signify a Christian place of worship.
--OR--
The church, as has been seen, is a society formed of living men, not a mere mystical union of souls.
Yet we see in this man-made document the qualifiers:
"It certainly does not mean that none can be saved except those who are in visible communion with the Church. The Catholic Church has ever taught that nothing else is needed to obtain justification than an act of perfect charity and of contrition."
Hmmmm...no specific >>Roman Catholic<< here either.
Maybe to help me out, you will provide the link to your definition, just so we can clear the air in this regard.
Thanks!
Further down the same page you skimmed.

Thanks. Goes into great detail. The "Church" in question is the Roman Catholic Church.

Some subheadings on the piece you helpfully linked:

The present article is arranged as follows:
•The term Ecclesia
•The Church in prophecy
•Its constitution by Christ; the Church after the Ascension
•Its organization by the Apostles
•The Church, a divine society
•The Church, the necessary means of salvation
•Visibility of the Church
•The principle of authority; infallibility; jurisdiction
•Members of the Church
•Indefectibility of the Church; continuity
•Universality of the Church; the "Branch" Theory
•Notes of the Church
•The Church, a perfect society

Thanks.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#440813 May 14, 2013
and yes Dan - that was from a "Catholic" link.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm

Are you even sure you understand this term?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#440814 May 14, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
If they teach that now, they have changed their format ... which means they never taught truth in the first place, which I already believed was a fact.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
Athanasian Creed
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith
They still teach that. I think I just typed it a few minutes ago.

Here it is, since I know that any non-Catholic treats the Catechism as if it's radioactive:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
Regina

Long Branch, NJ

#440815 May 14, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
AWWWWW come on ... be honest. You are certain you are saved and also certain that Muslims won't be saved ... unless they become Christian.
If you don't believe that, you are NOT Christian ... you are off traveling in your own space.
He's told you several times what he believes, and I agree with him. It's also a teaching of the Church.
What you're trying so desperately to get him to say is a protestant point of view, particularly evangelicals/born-agains. Didn't one of them condemn all Muslims to hell about a week or so ago? Yes, I recall she did. Very loudly and clearly at that. However, no Catholic believes that. Perhaps you should take it up with those who do.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#440816 May 14, 2013
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you say that Christians mislead others about God when you and June don't believe that anything at all can be proven? If you can prove there is no Christian God, then you might have a leg to stand on.
You do mislead.

You don't believe in all of what Jesus taught, but will claim "the fullness of Jesus".
- misleading others with what you actually believe

You mislead others with saying "God" does this or that...
- misleading others with a false sense that you do know, when in fact you don't.

As for what June posts - she can answer for herself. The above is only my view of your religion.

Anything else?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#440817 May 14, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
My guess is, from your attitude, you think you know more than others about many issues.
Even in this post you brag about being able to survive where others couldn't.
I suggest in a concentration camp, you would learn humility in a hurry.
I agree that nothing in life is cut and dried.
Some I do, some I don't.
That was not bragging. You made the reference that I was incapable of surviving in dire circumstances, and I explained that you were assuming, and for the most part, incorrect in that assumption-with explanation...and now you repeat the very same erroneous assumption.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#440818 May 14, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW!! You covered all the basis, huh. Maybe not.
Luke and Matt are copies of Mark.
So that leaves us GoMark. Let's review the texts:
http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.... Query&book=34&chapter= 8&lid=en&side=r&ve rse=34&zoomSlider=0
31 And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders, and the chief priests, and the scribes, and be put to death, and rise after three days.
32 And he uttered this saying plainly. And Peter took him and began to rebuke him.
33 But turning and looking on his disciples he rebuked Peter and said: Get behind me, Satan, for thou thinkest not the things of God, but the things of men.
34 And calling the multitude to him with his disciples, he said to them: Whoever will follow after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whoever will save his life shall lose it; but whoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his life?
37 For what would a man give as a ransom for his life?
Deny the human being your Spirit entombs is more of an accurate analogy of these teachings.
"himself" = the body
"Self" = the Spirit
I still don't see how a journey into one's Self is what Jesus taught. In fact it seems for all the world He taught the opposite.
Fr. Barron explains this teaching quite well in his book "And Now I See."
http://www.amazon.com/Now-See-Theology-Transf...

Great book.

“Christianity is, above all, a way of seeing. What unites figures as diverse as James Joyce, Caravaggio, John Milton, the architect of Chartres, Dorothy Day, Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the later Bob Dylan is a peculiar and distinctive take on things, a style, a way, which flows finally from Jesus of Nazareth. Origen remarked that holiness is seeing with the eyes of Christ. Teilhard de Chardin said, with great passion, that his mission as a Christian thinker was to help people see. And Thomas Aquinas said that the ultimate goal of the Christian life is a ‘beatific vision,’ an act of seeing. This book is about coming to vision through Christ.”
— Robert Barron, from the Prelude
Dan

Omaha, NE

#440819 May 14, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you see that you are certain your bible gave you truth?
You don't even say "maybe." You are definitive in your stance, and that is arrogance, and nothing BUT arrogance.
Without the bible in your hand and the words embedded in your brain ... you would have nothing to say ... NOTHING.
It's "faith". It would be "arrogance" if I said that it was my idea, or if I said "I'm saved, you or any other person isn't".

Since: Sep 09

Smithers, Canada

#440820 May 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Asked and answered.
Do you have something new, June?
YES ... I suggest you try conversing as though you were not indoctrinated by your specific brand of religion.

Then you will see that neither one of us are fortune-tellers, and that the future therefore is not ours to hold.

We could have a cup of tea or coffee or whatever and talk about what is happening in the moment. We could be kind to each other.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Since: Sep 09

Smithers, Canada

#440821 May 14, 2013
No matter how they tried, preachers could not get me to belong to cults that taught that I would be saved and others would burn in hell or be lost to salvation.

How repulsive!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#440822 May 14, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a question.
Why do you need to study what others write to learn about what YOU believe is moral?
Good question.

We should all, always want to learn. If it includes better morals, then so be it, we should learn them, just so we can better ourselves ad others.

Now that I've lived a while on this planet, of course, I will learn different morals, from not only reading, but also day-to-day activities, etc. So in truth, to study the different morals, actually is donet hrough just living life - reading about what others think on the subject is helpful, especially, since we humans do not already have all the knowledge associated to said study.

And since we are only human, having something right in front of us, is sometimes a better reminder than trying to remember soemthing we only heard or saw - the clarity may not be present.

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