Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
Comments
423,081 - 423,100 of 538,836 Comments Last updated 3 min ago
Anthony MN

Andover, MN

#438890 May 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
No-her penance, apparently, was to admit that she didn't understand simple English on a public message board.
Lol!
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#438891 May 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. You knew about the Latin. Didn't know the context in which the phrase was said, but you knew the Latin thing.
You've pasted the same Ferraris quotes as you had previously. Ferraris WAS a canonist, no question. His work, still, doesn't constitute Catholic doctrine. Were he alive today, he'd tell you as much.
Unlike Protestantism, everything a Catholic writes concerning theological matters isn't awarded doctrinal status just because it's written down.
And by this method (denial) folks, the RCC can get away with anything they say.
Why being a canonist is he therefore invalid?

Lucius Ferraris

An eighteenth-century canonist of the Franciscan Order. The exact dates of his birth and death are unknown, but he was born at Solero, near Alessandria in Northern Italy. He was also professor, provincial of his order, and consultor of the Holy Office. It would seem he died before 1763. He is the author of the "Prompta Bibliotheca canonica, juridica, moralis, theologica, necnon ascetica, polemica, rubricistica, historica", a veritable encyclopedia of religious knowledge.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06048a.htm An RCC site.
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#438892 May 8, 2013
"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold:'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth."

(Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958).
__________

This is a recent statement by a recent pope.(November 4, 1958).

I have read denials on this site that Catholics regard themselves as the only people saved.

No pope leads me. Am I therefore unsaved?
If you are not Catholic, are YOU saved?
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#438893 May 8, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Well ... your gut tells you to be greedy in the idea that a god exists just to pamper you.
A Jewish god ... no less!
:)
June I am allowed to believe in God, without being persecuted by you.
Are you jealous that I have a God who loves me, well don't be because He loves you to.
Inspite of your lack of faith, His love is unconditional June.
He also under stands your grieve, at the lose of 2 daughters.
I have never lost a child, to death. so I can say I know how you feel.
Why your daughter chose suicide, is not your fault. I hope you are not blaming yourself that would be a terrible guilt to live with.
So people are not afraid to die, but they are afraid to live.
I do think you are in pain and confused June.
You talk about a god, but you are not talking about the God I know,
the one you are talking about is a stranger to me.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#438894 May 8, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
And by this method (denial) folks, the RCC can get away with anything they say.
Why being a canonist is he therefore invalid?
Lucius Ferraris
An eighteenth-century canonist of the Franciscan Order. The exact dates of his birth and death are unknown, but he was born at Solero, near Alessandria in Northern Italy. He was also professor, provincial of his order, and consultor of the Holy Office. It would seem he died before 1763. He is the author of the "Prompta Bibliotheca canonica, juridica, moralis, theologica, necnon ascetica, polemica, rubricistica, historica", a veritable encyclopedia of religious knowledge.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06048a.htm An RCC site.
I didn't declare him "invalid". He was a perfectly valid canonist.

I said that his writings do not constitute Catholic doctrine.

The source you cite doesn't declare anything to the contrary.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#438895 May 8, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold:'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth."
(Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958).
__________
This is a recent statement by a recent pope.(November 4, 1958).
I have read denials on this site that Catholics regard themselves as the only people saved.
No pope leads me. Am I therefore unsaved?
If you are not Catholic, are YOU saved?
Non-Catholics are not assured of salvation. That's the VERY short form.

Here's the long form from the Catechism:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.H...
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#438896 May 8, 2013
The Catholic Church has solemnly defined three times by infallible declarations that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

The most explicit and forceful of the three came from Pope Eugene IV, in the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441, who proclaimed ex cathedra:
"The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire 'which was prepared for the devil and his angels'(Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her... No one let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

**********

"The other two infallible declarations are as follows:
There is one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved. Pope Innocent III, ex cathedra,(Fourth Lateran Council, 1215)."

**********

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.(Unum Sanctum, 1302)."

"This means, and has always meant, that salvation and unity exist only within the Catholic Church, and that members of heretical groups cannot be considered as "part" of the Church of Christ. This doctrine has been the consistent teaching of the Popes throughout the centuries."

Now wait for the diversion and denials.
Anthony MN

Andover, MN

#438897 May 8, 2013
Regina wrote:
<quoted text>
She's what Gene would call a Seminar Catholic, lol....
"I was a Catholic until I read my bible" is without question the silliest statement these phonies make. I wonder how good ole Gene is doing.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#438898 May 8, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
The Catholic Church has solemnly defined three times by infallible declarations that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.
The most explicit and forceful of the three came from Pope Eugene IV, in the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441, who proclaimed ex cathedra:
"The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire 'which was prepared for the devil and his angels'(Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her... No one let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."
**********
"The other two infallible declarations are as follows:
There is one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved. Pope Innocent III, ex cathedra,(Fourth Lateran Council, 1215)."
**********
"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.(Unum Sanctum, 1302)."
"This means, and has always meant, that salvation and unity exist only within the Catholic Church, and that members of heretical groups cannot be considered as "part" of the Church of Christ. This doctrine has been the consistent teaching of the Popes throughout the centuries."
Now wait for the diversion and denials.
No denials here.

See post #438895
Dan

Omaha, NE

#438899 May 8, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
"I was a Catholic until I read my bible" is without question the silliest statement these phonies make. I wonder how good ole Gene is doing.
Shhhh.

Don't conjure him up.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#438900 May 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Luckily, he doesn't claim to speak on God's behalf.
He speaks on the Church's behalf.
So the church has nothing in common with a god huh???

:)

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#438901 May 8, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
June I am allowed to believe in God, without being persecuted by you.
This is a forum to express varying opinions. I can't persecute your opinions. I can however disagree with them.

:)
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#438902 May 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
I didn't declare him "invalid". He was a perfectly valid canonist.
I said that his writings do not constitute Catholic doctrine.
The source you cite doesn't declare anything to the contrary.
So who judges which "Early Father" is legitimate and which isn't?
You say their writings are equal with scripture.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

#438903 May 8, 2013
Georges Minois History of Suicide Voluntary Death in Western Culture Translated by Lydia G. Cochrane. First published in 1995.

Although the voluntary self-sacrifice of the Christian martyrs of the heroic centuries was held to be admirable, the Albigensians who marched joyfully to the stake were granted no merit, since their audacity was held to be inspired by the devil: Their acts were identical, but the souls of the early Christian martyrs were saved, while those of the Albigensian heretics were damned.
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#438904 May 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
Who needed you to "prove" it? I already knew it.
The priest can absolve sins. He has Christ's authority to do so.
Christ said so.
Earlier, you explained that the priest did it "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit".
Not by his own power.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#438905 May 8, 2013
783
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
You insisted that there's no way St. James said to confess to one another because it contradicts 1 Timothy. Is there any wonder no one takes you seriously?
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.("That ye may be healed" speaks of a physical healing of an illness....sins are forgiven...not healed)

This is not teaching confessing our sins to God, as we are taught from Scripture, and asking forgiveness for our sins in the name of our Saviour, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It is teaching when a wrong, or wrongs, have occurred, reconciliation must be attempted.

Quote: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Tiger Lily

New Zealand

#438906 May 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Non-Catholics are not assured of salvation. That's the VERY short form.
Here's the long form from the Catechism:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.H...
So, those who are NOT ignorant of the Gospels but who pay no allegiance to the pope have no hope of salvation?

That would be all of those here who never attend mass.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#438907 May 8, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
So the church has nothing in common with a god huh???
:)
The Church is OF God, yes, but the Pope does not speak for God.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#438908 May 8, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
So who judges which "Early Father" is legitimate and which isn't?
You say their writings are equal with scripture.
I don't say their writings of the Fathers of the Church are equal to scripture, nor does the Church. The Church Fathers inform sacred tradition, which informs our faith along with Scripture and church teaching.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#438909 May 8, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
Earlier, you explained that the priest did it "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit".
Not by his own power.
You're stuck on this for some reason.

The priest has been given the authority to absolve sin (See Matt. 16:19). He does so in Gods' name. He does not do so under his own personal authority, rather his ministerial authority conferred by Christ.

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