Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 681702 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435275 Apr 24, 2013
What does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit?
An important portion of Scripture that refers to the filling of the Holy Spirit is Ephesians 5:17-21:

Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

In these verses being filled with the Spirit is contrasted with being filled or drunk with wine. The idea is one of being controlled by God’s Spirit rather than by other forces. When we are filled by the Spirit, we see a resultant attitude of joy and thanksgiving. We also see a relational posture of humility toward God and of submission to one another.

So how can a person be filled with the Holy Spirit? To be clear, there is an important difference between the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the filling of the Holy Spirit. All believers in Jesus Christ have God’s Spirit living within them, or dwelling within them (John 14:16, Ephesians 1:13, 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 4:30); but not all believers live filled or controlled by the Spirit’s power. Some Christians describe this distinction by saying believers have all of the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit may not have all of them. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the time of our salvation but we are filled by Him when we submit to Him.

The filling of the Holy Spirit, then, can vary in the life of each believer. Negatively, a believer in Christ can “quench” or “grieve” the Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19; Ephesians 4:30). Sinful actions can hinder the work of God’s Spirit in his or her life. In contrast, when a believer in Christ lives in obedience to God’s will and commands, he or she should expect to see God’s Spirit living through them.

Some suggest that the filling of the Holy Spirit is an emotional experience that takes place at certain moments, but the concept of “filling” in Scripture is one of being controlled or influenced by the Holy Spirit. At times living a Spirit-filled life may include emotional or mountain-top experiences. But the idea of being filled by the Spirit is more about an ongoing sense of God’s Spirit working in a person’s life, not a one-time experience. As the believer lives out his or her faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit increasingly controls or fills his or her life; this leads to joy, thankfulness, and right relationships.
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435276 Apr 24, 2013
What is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and when does someone receive it?
In short, we receive the Holy Spirit when we receive Christ as Lord and Savior. Paul says in Romans:“However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him”(Romans 8:9).

In another epistle, the Apostle states:“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory”(Ephesians 1:13–14). So there is no gap between belief in Christ and the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

However, it should be noted that some have tried to teach what is called the “doctrine of subsequence” or “second work of grace,” which states that Christians receive some of the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation and then what is called the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” at some time afterwards. A careful examination of Scripture shows this position to be incorrect.

First, the phrase “baptism of the Holy Spirit” appears nowhere in Scripture. Moreover, there is no place in Scripture where the Holy Spirit does the baptizing. Instead, the Bible clearly portrays Christ as the baptizer:“As for me [John the Baptist], I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”(Matthew 3:11).

Second, while those supporting the teaching of subsequence point to specific episodes in Acts as proof that a secondary baptism occurs among all believers, closer inspection of both the texts and the historical background of the book undoes their position.

In Acts 2, a subsequent baptism with the Holy Spirit is certainly seen; however, this is in keeping with Jesus’ previous promise to the disciples in Acts 1:5:“You will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” This occurred on Pentecost and was a predominantly Jewish event that inaugurated the Church age.

In Acts 8, the Samaritans, a race deeply despised by the Jews, were added to the Church. While a subsequent baptism with the Holy Spirit is present in the text, the reasons for it are quite evident. It was important for the Jews to see and experience the fact that the Samaritans were included in the Church, and it was important for the Samaritans to know that the Jewish apostles were the channels of divine truth and that they were to be under apostolic authority.

In Acts 10, the Gentiles—Cornelius and those who were with him—were added to the Church. However, it should be noted that a subsequent baptism does not occur; rather, belief and the baptism with the Spirit occur at the same time.

Such is also the case in Acts 19 with a group of those who had only been exposed to John the Baptist’s repentance teaching but nothing more. Belief in Christ and the baptism with the Spirit again occur simultaneously.

CONT
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435277 Apr 24, 2013
CONT
It is important to remember that the genre of Acts is that of historical narrative where Luke is recording an important time of historical spiritual transition. Therefore, a distinction must be made between what is descriptive in Acts vs. what is prescriptive. As one theologian has said,“We must not make the tragic mistake of teaching the experience of the apostles, but rather we must experience the teaching of the apostles.”

To be baptized with the Holy Spirit means that Christ places the new believer into the unity of His body and connects him/her with everyone else who also believes in Christ. Baptism with the Spirit makes all believers one. Of this, Paul says,“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit”(1 Corinthians 12:13).

We must not miss the significance of the past tense expression “were all baptized.” There is no state of limbo where a person is saved but not a part of the body of Christ.

While the Scripture never commands Christians to be baptized by, with, or of the Holy Spirit, it does charge them to be filled with the Spirit:“And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit”(Ephesians 5:18). But as for the initial gift of the Holy Spirit, that happens at one, and only one, time—at the time of salvation:“There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism”(Ephesians 4:4–5).
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435278 Apr 24, 2013
"Why won't God heal amputees?"

Answer: Some use this question in an attempt to "disprove" the existence of God. In fact, there is a popular anti-Christian website dedicated to the “Why won’t God heal amputees?” argument: http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com . If God is all-powerful and if Jesus promised to do anything we ask (or so the reasoning goes), then why won’t God ever heal amputees when we pray for them? Why does God heal victims of cancer and diabetes, for example, yet He never causes an amputated limb to be regenerated? The fact that an amputee stays an amputee is "proof" to some that God does not exist, that prayer is useless, that so-called healings are coincidence, and that religion is a myth.

The above argument is usually presented in a thoughtful, well-reasoned way, with a liberal sprinkling of Scripture to make it seem all the more legitimate. However, it is an argument based on a wrong view of God and a misrepresentation of Scripture. The line of reasoning employed in the "why won’t God heal amputees" argument makes at least seven false assumptions:

CONT
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435279 Apr 24, 2013
CONT

Assumption 1: God has never healed an amputee. Who is to say that in the history of the world, God has never caused a limb to regenerate? To say, "I have no empirical evidence that limbs can regenerate; therefore, no amputee has ever been healed in the history of the world" is akin to saying "I have no empirical evidence that rabbits live in my yard; therefore, no rabbit has ever lived on this ground in the history of the world." It’s a conclusion that simply cannot be drawn. Besides, we have the historical record of Jesus healing lepers, some of whom we may assume had lost digits or facial features. In each case, the lepers were restored whole (Mark 1:40-42; Luke 17:12-14). Also, there is the case of the man with the shriveled hand (Matthew 12:9-13), and the restoration of Malchus's severed ear (Luke 22:50-51), not to mention the fact that Jesus raised the dead (Matthew 11:5; John 11), which would undeniably be even more difficult than healing an amputee.

Assumption 2: God’s goodness and love require Him to heal everyone. Illness, suffering, and pain are the result of our living in a cursed world—cursed because of our sin (Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 8:20-22). God’s goodness and love moved Him to provide a Savior to redeem us from the curse (1 John 4:9-10), but our ultimate redemption will not be realized until God has made a final end of sin in the world. Until that time, we are still subject to physical death.

If God’s love required Him to heal every disease and infirmity, then no one would ever die—because "love" would maintain everyone in perfect health. The biblical definition of love is "a sacrificial seeking what is best for the loved one." What is best for us is not always physical wholeness. Paul the apostle prayed to have his "thorn in the flesh" removed, but God said, "No," because He wanted Paul to understand he didn’t need to be physically whole to experience the sustaining grace of God. Through the experience, Paul grew in humility and in the understanding of God’s mercy and power (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

CONT
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435280 Apr 24, 2013
CONT

The testimony of Joni Eareckson Tada provides a modern example of what God can do through physical tragedy. As a teenager, Joni suffered a diving accident that left her a quadriplegic. In her book Joni, she relates how she visited faith healers many times and prayed desperately for the healing which never came. Finally, she accepted her condition as God’s will, and she writes, "The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that God doesn’t want everyone well. He uses our problems for His glory and our good" (p. 190).

Assumption 3: God still performs miracles today just as He did in the past. In the thousands of years of history covered by the Bible, we find just four short periods in which miracles were widely performed (the period of the Exodus, the time of the prophets Elijah and Elisha, the ministry of Jesus, and the time of the apostles). While miracles occurred throughout the Bible, it was only during these four periods that miracles were "common."

The time of the apostles ended with the writing of Revelation and the death of John. That means that now, once again, miracles are rare. Any ministry which claims to be led by a new breed of apostle or claims to possess the ability to heal is deceiving people. "Faith healers" play upon emotion and use the power of suggestion to produce unverifiable "healings." This is not to say that God does not heal people today—we believe He does—but not in the numbers or in the way that some people claim.

We turn again to the story of Joni Eareckson Tada, who at one time sought the help of faith healers. On the subject of modern-day miracles, she says, "Man’s dealing with God in our day and culture is based on His Word rather than ‘signs and wonders’" (op cit., p. 190). His grace is sufficient, and His Word is sure.

CONT
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435281 Apr 24, 2013
CONT
Assumption 4: God is bound to say "yes" to any prayer offered in faith. Jesus said, "I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:12-14). Some have tried to interpret this passage as Jesus agreeing to whatever we ask. But this is misreading Jesus’ intent. Notice, first, that Jesus is speaking to His apostles, and the promise is for them. After Jesus’ ascension, the apostles were given power to perform miracles as they spread the gospel (Acts 5:12). Second, Jesus twice uses the phrase "in My name." This indicates the basis for the apostles’ prayers, but it also implies that whatever they prayed for should be consonant with Jesus’ will. A selfish prayer, for example, or one motivated by greed, cannot be said to be prayed in Jesus’ name.

We pray in faith, but faith means that we trust God. We trust Him to do what is best and to know what is best. When we consider all the Bible’s teaching on prayer (not just the promise given to the apostles), we learn that God may exercise His power in response to our prayer, or He may surprise us with a different course of action. In His wisdom He always does what is best (Romans 8:28).

Assumption 5: God’s future healing (at the resurrection) cannot compensate for earthly suffering. The truth is, "our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us" (Romans 8:18). When a believer loses a limb, he has God’s promise of future wholeness, and faith is "being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" (Hebrews 11:4). Jesus said, "It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire" (Matthew 18:8). His words confirm the relative unimportance of our physical condition in this world, as compared to our eternal state. To enter life maimed (and then to be made whole) is infinitely better than to enter hell whole (to suffer for eternity).

Assumption 6: God’s plan is subject to man’s approval. One of the contentions of the "why won’t God heal amputees" argument is that God just isn’t "fair" to amputees. Yet, Scripture is clear that God is perfectly just (Psalm 11:7; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-6) and in His sovereignty answers to no one (Romans 9:20-21). A believer has faith in God’s goodness, even when circumstances make it difficult and reason seems to falter.

Assumption 7: God does not exist. This is the underlying assumption on which the whole "why won’t God heal amputees" argument is based. Those who champion the "why won’t God heal amputees" argument start with the assumption that God does not exist and then proceed to buttress their idea as best they can. For them, "religion is a myth" is a foregone conclusion, presented as a logical deduction but which is, in reality, foundational to the argument.

In one sense, the question of why God doesn’t heal amputees is a trick question, comparable to "Can God make a rock too big for Him to lift?" and is designed not to seek for truth but to discredit faith. In another sense, it can be a valid question with a biblical answer. That answer, in short, would be something like this: "God can heal amputees and will heal every one of them who trusts Christ as Savior. The healing will come, not as the result of our demanding it now, but in God’s own time, possibly in this life, but definitely in heaven. Until that time, we walk by faith, trusting the God who redeems us in Christ and promises the resurrection of the body."

CONT
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#435282 Apr 24, 2013
A personal testimony:
Our first son was born missing bones in his lower legs and in his feet and he only had two toes. Two days after his first birthday he had both feet amputated. We are now considering adopting a child from China who would require a similar surgery as he has similar issues. I feel God chose me to be a very special mother to these special children, and I had no idea until seeing the topic about why doesn't God heal amputees that people used this as a reason to doubt the existence of God. As the mother of one child with no feet and the potential mother of another child that will be missing some of his lower limbs as well, I've never seen it in that light. Rather, I have seen His calling me to be a special mother as a way to teach others of the blessings of God. He is also calling me to give these children the opportunity to be added to a Christian family that will teach them to love the Lord in their special way and to understand that we can overcome all things all things through Christ. Some might find it to be a stumbling block; we find it to be a learning experience and challenge. We also thank Him for giving someone the knowledge to perform the necessary surgeries and make the necessary prostheses that allow my son, and hopefully our next son, to be able to walk, run, jump, and live to glorify God in all things.“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose”(Romans 8:28).
June VanDerMark

Since: Sep 09

Quesnel, Canada

#435283 Apr 24, 2013
Religion - A Delusion wrote:
Let's ALL ask Jesus to appear...
Spirit can appear all over the world at the same time.

That's how the hierarchy spread the room-er that Jesus was in all of their confessionals 24 hrs a day ... while his Jewish father was searching all over for him in the synagogues.

It was a terrible way to treat Jesus' father, but the Catholics didn't care.

:)
June VanDerMark

Since: Sep 09

Quesnel, Canada

#435284 Apr 24, 2013
LTM wrote:
"Does God love me?"
Whose opinion do you want?

:)

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#435285 Apr 24, 2013
Doctrinal rightness and rightness of ecclesiastical position are important, but only as a starting point to go on into a living relationship - and not as ends in themselves
Francis Shaeffer
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#435286 Apr 24, 2013
More from the Roman Catholics.....

"We teach,...We declare that the Roman Church by the Providence of God holds the primacy of ordinary power over all others, and that this power of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, which is truly episcopal, is immediate. Toward it, the pastors and the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both individually and collectively, are bound by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, not only in matters which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church spread throughout the whole world, in such a way that once the unity of communion and the profession of the same Faith has been preserved with the Roman Pontiff, there is one flock of the Church of Christ under one supreme shepherd. This is the teaching of the Catholic truth from which no one can depart without loss of faith and salvation." Pope Pius XII, Ad Apostolorum Principis (On Communism And The Church In China), Encyclical Promulgated on June 29, 1958,#46.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#435287 Apr 24, 2013
John Chrysostom???? Another Roman Catholic!


"Do not hold aloof from the Church; for nothing is stronger than the Church. The Church is thy hope, thy salvation, thy refuge." St. John Chrysostom, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series I, Vol. IX, Introduction to the Two Homilies on Eutropius, Homily II.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#435288 Apr 24, 2013
The Roman Catholic "Mary"

"Thus there is a mediation: Mary places herself between her Son and mankind in the reality of their wants, needs and sufferings. She puts herself 'in the middle,' that is to say she acts as a mediatrix not as an outsider, but in her position as mother." Pope John Paul II, in Redemptoris Mater (On the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Life of the Pilgrim Church), Encyclical promulgated on March 25, 1987,#21.

"...we only have access to the Father by means of the Son, who is the Mediator of justice, so we only have access to the Son by means of the Mother, who is mediator of grace, and who obtains for us, by her intercession, the gifts which Jesus Christ has merited for us....you cannot come to God except by means of Jesus Christ, nor can you come to Christ except by means of his Mother." St. Alphonsus Ligouri, The Great Means of Salvation and of Perfection (The Necessity and Power of Prayer), Chapter 1, The Necessity of Prayer, Section 4 "The Intercession of the Blessed Virgin".

"With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ. Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother....Mary is this glorious intermediary..." Pope Leo XIII, in Octobri Mense (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 22, 1891,# 4.

"God chose her to be the treasurer, the administrator and the dispenser of all his graces, so that all his graces and gifts pass through her hands. Such is the power that she has received from him that, according to St Bernardine, she gives the graces of the eternal Father, the virtues of Jesus Christ, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit to whom she wills, as and when she wills, and as much as she wills.....
"We must never go to our Lord except through Mary, using her intercession and good standing with him. We must never be without her when praying to Jesus.....
"Beware, chosen soul, of thinking that it is more perfect to direct your work and intention straight to Jesus or straight to God. Without Mary, your work and your intention will be of little value. But if you go to God through Mary, your work will become Mary's work, and consequently will be most noble and most worthy of God.." St. Louis Marie de Montfort, in The Secret of Mary,#10, 48, 50.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#435289 Apr 24, 2013
266
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
My apologies Answered the wrong post...
Glad to hear from you......I will dismantle my munitions I gathered for a serious tete-a-tete..
truth

Perth, Australia

#435290 Apr 24, 2013
Remember this planet can be less then child marble..its looks like that ones upon time when somebody watch me.Did i describe perfectly?
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#435291 Apr 24, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
It's not fair that the good-god gets all the fresh air and sunshine, and the devil gets to eat dirt.
Some things just aren't fair at all.
:)
So true June! And you just keep "eating crow" with every one of your editorial "opinionated "relative truth" nonsense"!!!
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#435292 Apr 24, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
249
<quoted text>
That does not answer: Why do Catholics allow tradition to trump the Bible???
And why do "bible only" (so-called Christians) continue to distort,deceive and lie about what the Catholic Church actually teaches and believes. Answer: because they have absolutely "nothing" to base ANY of their own Protestant beliefs and doctrine of faith upon. The ONLY THING that can rely upon is spreading lies, heresy, hostility and vindictive hate against over 2000 years, of the historically and biblically PROVEN TRUE Gospel of Jesus Christ and His One (and only one) True Apostolic Catholic Church.
truth

Perth, Australia

#435293 Apr 24, 2013
you traveling there without any money or paying ticket or anybody recomend you..no..its not..its your inner prayers..now

simple you flying on wing of love eye up to eye up to eye planet by planet by planet ..ah good by if take you there..did you see any city..no not at all..your planet become less then child marble.
by
truth

Perth, Australia

#435294 Apr 24, 2013
where are you looking ..there and there, here and here whereeeeee..oh
i am within you..you are within me.

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