Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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truth

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#431955
Apr 10, 2013
 
micle take care about yourself..don't read my post if you don't liked..evil say that..not me
where
asked your military personel for each position where they going press..then find on other side scotland islend where..its look like that as symbol
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don't play funny game..its stay under secret words
Jesus words is perfect..turn over another face spit me..but you will find where is correction..tamo gdje se najmanje nadas..na vrlo ruzan nacin i neugodan..tako je ostavljeno ispod slova..gdje se continenti razvajaju i spustaju..in..where???
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truth

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#431956
Apr 10, 2013
 
69 96 b11
see
9 11
see
nk
ivo

see

i will tell you many secrets which exist more
did we are in dangerous
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i been as graveyard..
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a nkh
truth

Perth, Australia

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#431957
Apr 10, 2013
 
many words
whats worthy or not..hm

i don't asked forgiveness from anyone
no

you need know
its not my words which you try on evil way set up to me
evil set up wicket satanic people
do you understood
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a nkh
truth

Perth, Australia

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#431958
Apr 10, 2013
 
sve ste meni i mojoj djeci i familiji najgore od svega

byyyyyyyyyyyyy

much more you will seeeeeeeeeeee
hojo

Chanhassen, MN

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#431960
Apr 10, 2013
 

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jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>you can not debate me, because you have nothing to debate with,you can not prove anything about your church is true.
Your sources of Church History are biasly "filled with anti-catholic "editorialized rhetoric" that is not worth ANY Catholics time to debate, deliberate or discuss. I have "glanced over" some of the "anti-catholic negativity" from your "fundie sources" that is nothing more than Protestant "personal opinionated propaganda" ---again---"a total waste of time" to discuss. We/as Catholics, know without a doubt, where the TRUTH of TRUE Church History originates, who the credible historian authors and writers are and who possesses "a monopoly on Historical Documented fundamental TRUTH. It begins with the teachings of the Jesus Christs Apostles,to the recorded historical writings of Early Church Fathers,(who gave you Protestants the bible that you mis-interpret to your own (destruction), then from biographical the Lives of the Saints, the writings from the Apostolic Succession of the Popes (for over 2000 years) and finally the Apologistic historian authors and writers (both Catholic and Protestant) WHO--if you took time to read- would "debunk" all of the "spin" and "editorialized heretical garbage" that you come up with. Again-go read the Catholic Catechism and the Encyclicals if you REALLY ARE SERIOUS about finding TRUTH. OTHERWISE--go argue with the rest of your 42,000 contradicting and inconsistent "fundies" NONE OF WHICH agree with you EITHER!!----Still "fishing" jethro8----and still "catching NOTHING"!!!

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431961
Apr 10, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
"Tens of thousands"
- hmmmmm.....citation please, considering illiteracy was rampant in the first five centuries - thanks to the so-called "Church".
BTW - scribal errors have already been proven to occur, that would and had changed the meaning of a passage.
Bart Ehrman discusses four different examples in his book "Misquoting Jesus".
http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-...
You'll have to come up with something to better support what you have stated.
<quoted text>
You'll have to first provide proof that those dead people even wrote what you claim is "innocent".
Citation please.
<quoted text>
I didn't say that at all.
What I was pointing out is that, there are no witness accounts that were contemporary with the actual occurances, so how is that you find them true and accurate, if at a minimum these books were written decades later.
If one is to accept all of what Jesus taught, then the picture forms on who he was, and what he taught.
<quoted text>
I have with the link above.
How much evidence do you require from me? I'd like to get this out of the way early, because if I am to keep posting support and evidence, then I want to make sure I achieve it completely.
How much?
<quoted text>
No you don't, but to give you the benefit of a doubt - which of the original 13 Apostles do you trust? Please list them all.
<quoted text>
- The so-called "Church" has not been fully defined, so your argument is lacking substance and may be just trying to mislead others.
If you trust Jesus, then you turst all his teachings. The Baptist do NOT accept non-canonical texts as part of their doctrine. With you saying the opposite, it is clear you are not Baptist.
You don't have to accuse anyone, because you've already lied to yourself about your honesty with believing in Jesus.
Evidence that illiteracy was prevalent please. Did the Romans take a census on literacy?

I don't have a reference, you'll just have to take my word for it. But it takes a long time, and a lot of people, to copy all those books from the Bible. Common sense. No printing press means millions of hours spent copying books. Who has that kind of time? Why would anyone do that unless they were convinced of the truth of what they copied?

Scribal errors have not been substantial enough to change the overall meaning, which remains unchanged.

I have to do no such thing. You cannot prove someone is innocent, only guilty. YOU have to provide evidence, not I. Which means, unless you can prove the early Christians liars, you are just spinning your wheels here.

The Church ha been defined quite well over these last 2000 years. Longest enduring institution on earth, no other has come close. I wonder why?

I require no evidence from you. You have the burden of proof to convince me that mainstream Christianity is wrong, and that 2000 years of believers have been lied to.

Well, I never did state I'd be loyal to all Baptist doctrines. But I do attend a Baptist church, where I was baptized. So what does that make me? Let's just stick with Christian, yes?

You declare yourself a Gnostic, and claim I am trying to mislead others? I think not. I accept the main doctrines of Christ. You do not. Who is misleading who?

Anyway, let this not get ugly, proceed to Part Two
hojo

Chanhassen, MN

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#431962
Apr 10, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
So does that mean you give up? Don't get frustrated, just keep at it. Our Lord had to deal with the Pharisees. And as I've posted previously, why do so few Catholics and Americans know about what the pope's have declared about the social problems of our day, like socialism and other great evils?
You real problem is too many Catholics don't believe in Catholicism, so many non-Catholics will stay away.
No problem Yankee Yahoo! Just continue to "keep the faith"!!
The TRUE faith!!!

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431963
Apr 10, 2013
 
New Spiritual Leader:

What do you believe, exactly?

I can tell you what little I have learned of Gnosticism, which does not sound legit. So please correct me, and let's clarify this.

1. That Jesus is the liberator, and Yahweh the evil god keeping us captive on this planet.

2. That this world, and all fleshly things are evil, or inherently evil.

3. That the purpose of life is for our souls to escape this evil bodies, and this evil material world.

That about sums it up.

Tell us what doctrines you hold to.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431964
Apr 10, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Most Catholics do not know that. Its interesting a Protestant knows more about Church history than Catholics. That's why its so easy for Evangelicals to away Catholics away from the Church.
Most have no idea ROMAN Catholic is a Protestant name given to us that stuck. It stuck so much, the Catholic Church doesn't correct it, and sometimes uses it for administrative purposes, but not in the official capacity of the Church.
Its interesting that later cultist and some Evangelicals point to Book of Revelation, and say its the ROMAN Catholic Church (not Pagan Rome) that John was writing about. They have no clue that the name was given by England and carried over to the USA. Oh well, it ain't going away now.
Never too late to correct it. It's a perfect opening for converting Protestants. "Wait, if you thought our name was Roman Catholic, then what other foolishness do you believe?"

It sort of undermines a lot of other nonsense getting that cleared up right off the bat.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

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#431965
Apr 10, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
With you keep voicing it without providing any support, is a typical so-called "Christian" problem. Repeating it does not make it true.
Please name all the witnesses you think testified accurately.
<quoted text>
I've already hsown you that the writings have been changed and now flawed. What more evidence do you need to believe in the evidence?
Or more accurately - you are afraid the Bible is incorrect, which causes a big dent in your theology, so you continue to deny the truths by being dishonest with others and yourself?
Well?
<quoted text>
Citation please.
Oh I get it. Your belief is correct and all others are wrong.
Your arrogance is starting to show.
<quoted text>
Please cite the passage or text that has "God" stating these heresies.
Or are you going to just pass this point of interest on by and go on living a lie told to you by men?
Seriously, where has "God" stated that a specific belief is heresy.
I think you are continuing to lie for your religion and belief.
Where's the honesty?
<quoted text>
You struggle because you let other men dictate for what you are to believe.
Choose Self. Jesus did. Don't you want to be like Jesus?
I'm not really hear on an academic basis. If you keep demanding supporting evidence for things I know to be true, and things which are my opinions, then I'm going to start asking you for the same ... and this whole affair will get VERY bulky and time-consuming.

Can't you pretend this is a conversation? Trust me, I don't lie. And I will not assume you lie.

Arrogance? No. Pure logic. Christianity is a false religion if any of the doctrines are false. Jesus sais He is the only way, then that means all other religions are false. Jesus said He is God, then either He is, or he is a liar and all of Christianity is false. Witnesses said he was Resurrected. Either this is true, or it is all entirely a lie.

The vast majority of Christians actual think Jesus was just a mortal, and a great moral teacher, and that nothing supernatural happened. Well, that cannot be logical. If Jesus is not God, then He is the lunatic, and one of the most evil men in history.

I don't promote anything that has not already been promoted for centuries. Now quit with the accusations, and let us have an open and honest dialogue.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431966
Apr 10, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately none of this applies to the 21st C.
You probably also applaud slavery, rape and incest, because all of these are in the Bible that you trust is "true".
You are deluded.
Sigh ...

The same response I get from socialists, atheists, Marxists, Democrats, and Liberals anytime I bring into question their knowledge of historical facts.

Are you really going to go down this path, or are you willing to learn?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431967
Apr 10, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Why?
Your arrogance is now peeking through my monitor.
What can you test me for? With you just saying this, goes to show you don't know squat about what you think others should be like.
Why aren't you on TV teaching the world?
A: because you don't have anything that does teach and would allow you test someone.
<quoted text>
I'm not ignorant of history, far from it.
You'll have to support your position to show that these horrendous acts didn't occur - or didn't occur as common, or to non-believers.
<quoted text>
Probably not, but these acts sure played a role during those times.
<quoted text>
Looks like the 20th and the 21st centuries trumped this time period.
<quoted text>
Huh?
What are you claiming now? Are you trying to rewrite history?
Good luck with that.
Testing people is not arrogance. It's seeing where people stand.

And lack of knowledge about history is one of the greatest cause of misunderstandings.

Why are you angry about this? Do you not like someone thinking of the Medieval age differently than you do?

I don't have to provide ANY evidence that something DID NOT happen. One cannot prove a negative.

All assertions about history made by Marxists, Protestants, and yourself, requires evidence. If you don't like anything I stated, then research it yourself.

And if you believed ANY of those things as valid, then no, you are NOT knowledgable of history, but conform to the majority of people around you that believe those things with NO supporting evidence.

Take Dark Age for example. Is there any such thing? Of course not. One historian used the term, based on HIS world view that Roman times was the golden age, and it's fall, and barbarian invasions, meant darkness.

That was his world view. That doesn't make it reality. The reality is that there was never a Dark Age. One, older civilization fell, and another, more advanced civilization came along.

And you have a problem with this ... why?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431968
Apr 10, 2013
 

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jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>like i stated before the church would not be in existence today if not for the pagan/christian emperor Constantine,every date used is pagan,the outfit of the pope is of pagan origin,the catholic church is a man made pagan/christian church,that is lead by a man referred to as pope,it changed the Sabbath and the commandments with no divine authority. the true church would have all the answers and never change their beliefs,the p/c church does it on a regular basis, Jesus is the leader of the true church,the pope is not,you can't have two leaders.and going by the dark history of the church,there is no way it is the true church,that is impossible.
And what is pagan about it? Name something specific please.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

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#431969
Apr 10, 2013
 

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socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Dont forget the other testament of Mormon and the Koran. They are your fellow Gnostics.
Citation please.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

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#431970
Apr 10, 2013
 
waaasssuuup wrote:
Dear RCC friends -
just renounce the statement and position of the vatican that 'the roman catholic church is the only true church' and most of the antagonism against you and this cult should go away.
we're waiting......
So, if they renounce that it is the only true church, then it is no longer a cult?

I didn't know that claiming to be the only church made it a cult.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431971
Apr 10, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I THINK IT IS ABOUT TIME TO.....
GETTTTTT READY TO RUMMMBBLLE!!!!
Our first contestants up are:
HOJO and GiF (aka Confrinting)
Now gents - the rules are:
1. Be respectful
2. No name calling
3. Must post list links and facts to support what you say
Disqualification will occur if you state differently.
Honesty will help immensely.
Good luck!
:o)
Um, practice what you preach?

I've not been hostile with you, but I've just read several hostile posts from you to me.

That does not bode well.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431972
Apr 10, 2013
 
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible was in the hands of the catholic fathers only. They could edit it anyway they wanted it to read.
Outside the bible there is no story of Jesus, Mary, Joseph, miracles or crucifixion. Thats a lot of faith you put into one source collection of books whose meanings were probably re-written and changed dozens of times to get the catholic message the way their agenda wanted it to be.
Basically all the customs/traditions and elements of christianity were common knowledge throughout the medeteranean 1,000 years before the Jesus story.
Very little UNIQUE about christianity. The only reason it is still around is because of family hand me down tradition. Mom and Dad are catholic/protestant......so shall be the children.
If everyone today was brought up to study and learn about most main religions and those with no beliefs would make one a much better educated person to make a personal choice when that person becomes an adult.
Being indoctrinated from childhood to become just like mom and dad makes no common sense for a true personal belief.
Being born in the west usually means most follow Jesus. Born to a loving family from the east usually means Allah is who you pray to.
Religion is the great divider of mankind......very sad.
What Catholic message?

The Bible does not do a good job supporting the priesthood. Martin Luther basically used what was NOT in the Bible to make his assertions. Nor did the Catholics put down everything of Sacred Tradition into writing, that took way more time, which is now their Catechism I believe.(Not sure, since I'm not a Catholic.)

You are basically accusing people in ancient times of lying.

OK, so I wasn't raised with any religious beliefs. My father was agnostic, and I embraced Ayn Rand and became totally atheist.

Then, after years of historical research, unrelated to any interest in religion at all, I found that Western Civilization is a pretty amazing an unique culture, and began to wonder why. I read, and read, and read. Carroll Quigley helped me understand the Evolution of Civilization, a solid professor, even tutored Bill Clinton himself. Then I read some more.

Conclusion?

Christ was God.

So there goes your theory.

Then there is Korea.

"Silhak scholars saw Christianity as an ideological basis for their beliefs and were therefore attracted to what they saw as the egalitarian values of Christianity.[5] When Christianity was finally established in Korea, there was already a substantial body of educated opinion sympathetic to it, which was crucial to the spread of the Catholic faith in the 1790s.[6] An 1801 study indicated that 55% of all Catholics had family ties to the Silhak school.[7]" --- Wikipedia on Christianity in Korea.

Not exactly how the word of Christ spreads, but alas, scholars met Christ from a different angle.

Why should mankind be united? Of what merit is that? If you accept evolution and natural selection, then this division is EXACTLY what has created so many excellent and interesting culture throughout man's history.

Your world view is confusing.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431973
Apr 10, 2013
 
http://www.letusreason.org/Current48.htm

Yo, New Age Dude.

(Yes, I'm being a little sarcastic, sorry.)

Is this what you believe?

"Gnosticism was built on Greek philosophy that taught matter was evil and the Spirit was good. They taught docetism, a dualism which promoted a clear separation between the material and spiritual world. Christian Gnostics said since matter was evil, God could not really incarnate in a human body, He only appeared in human form and only appeared to suffer, it was an illusion. It was stated when Jesus walked on the sand you could know by seeing his footprints that were left. In this Jesus could be a pure spiritual being in an evil world and not be contaminated by it."

Well, no wonder you believe most of history to be full of evil.

Would you admit that you world view in then shaped by your religious belief that the material world is evil?

This would, I'm afraid, explain why your arguments and responses are very similar to Marxists (No, I'm NOT accusing you, so don't take that tone with me!)

Who also believe that mankind (though maybe not the material world) is evil, or mostly evil, and therefore must be guided.

This conflicts with Christianity, and Classic Liberalism, for obvious reasons. We believe that man is mostly good (since God created us, or we evolved by natural selection to be most excellent), and therefore perfectly capable of managing most social affairs without any special guidance from other men. Or rather, that the total sum of all decisions made by the collective work just fine, and need not be supplanted by any elite few.(A trust, committee, or soviet for example.)

And therefore, most deeds in history where not evil, and that most people in history made an honest effort to do good.

Therefore we have a conflict based on what we believe.

So how do we prove who is right?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431974
Apr 10, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Could you provide proof that Jesus said those things. Thank you.
I can't, I'm sorry.

Can you prove he said anything in the Bible? Thanks!
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>Could you also provide proof that the Apostle Thomas said those things that Jesus said.
I can't. Thomas is dead, and the texts are speaking much more these days.

What do you have on John, Mark, and Luke?
- IMO - I highly doubt Luke was present to hear Jesus speak, so that is an unlikely source, as he isn't even in the Apostles lists, so that puts him in the "hear-say" column. Another factor that is present on Luke, is practically a verbatim of GoMark with GoThomas mixed in - which tells me the author had those texts in his presence when it was scribed. "GoJohn", the non-Synoptic one (what a rebel!), tells a tale and could be an original Apostle, but unfortunately we don't have any contemporaries to support the story.

That leaves us with GoMark and GoMatthew.

GoMatthew, like GoLuke, seems to be a verbatim to GoMark. Same story, and told pretty much the same way. What Matt gets credit for, is he may be an original Apostles, but like GoLuke, the later dating also spoils the kitty.

Which leaves us to speculate on GoMark.
- An original story. But oops, we have a problem, the ending isn't quite defined, huh? The earliest editions of this text in possession are only 4th century copies - Codex Siniaticus and Vaticanus, and don't have the resurrection occurring in their texts. Which now leaves the impression, that "risen in bodily form" now moves off the table, and one could envision a spiritual resurrection - the Spirit - something Jesus continuously spoke of.
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>BTW, are you listening to men?
Well right now I am, I am watching Toy Hunter. Why?
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>Men said Jesus said. Right?
Yes, we only have documents by men. Continue to be this honest and you may actually understand Jesus. Well, you'll have to believe in Jesus first and what he taught, which isn't what you've decided to do.
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus never wrote anything down in the NT you know....
Correct. We agree with this statement.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#431975
Apr 10, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
New Spiritual Leader:
What do you believe, exactly?
I can tell you what little I have learned of Gnosticism, which does not sound legit. So please correct me, and let's clarify this.
1. That Jesus is the liberator, and Yahweh the evil god keeping us captive on this planet.
2. That this world, and all fleshly things are evil, or inherently evil.
3. That the purpose of life is for our souls to escape this evil bodies, and this evil material world.
That about sums it up.
Tell us what doctrines you hold to.
1. One does not need to believe in evil.
2. If one lives in love, evil is usually far away or not near.
2. Understand that the Spirit is that which motivates and learns to achieve the areas you are "still seeking".
- You have to use a religious platform in order to find comfort. When one realizes that a religious platform or basis is not needed, one moves to a new level of consciousness, as "being one with God". Jesus spoke of it - "to know yourself is to know the kingdom of God". You do believe in this teaching, right?

As for other beliefs - you are actually lucky I posted these. As in the many posts I have done in this forum alone, many have my beliefs listed. If you want to know about them, then go read them.

I will state that this forum is not about me, so asking me to prove this or prove that, you'll have to go elsewhere.

I'm jere to refute the RCC. If you have a beef about Gnosticism - start your own forum and then discuss it. My belief in whatever I do believe in, is really no concern of yours, unless you think it is?

Do you?

*sighs*

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