Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 687370 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#431011 Apr 3, 2013
"In the third century the early Christian identification of the eucharistic bread and wine with the Lord's body and blood continued unchanged, although a difference of approach can be detected in East and West. The outline, too, of a more considered theology of the eucharistic sacrifice begins to appear [I'll cover Sacrifice later]. In the West the equation of the consecrated elements with the body and blood was quite straightforward, although the fact that the presence is sacramental was never forgotten. Hippolytus speaks of 'the body and the blood' through which the Church is saved, and Tertullian regularly describes [E.g. de orat. 19; de idol. 7] the bread as 'the Lord's body.' The converted pagan, he remarks [De pud. 9],'feeds on the richness of the Lord's body, that is, on the eucharist.' The REALISM of his theology comes to light in the argument [De res. carn. 8], based on the intimate relation of body and soul, that just as in baptism the body is washed with water so that the soul may be cleansed, so in the eucharist 'the flesh feeds on Christ's body and blood so that the soul may be filled with God.' Clearly his assumption is that the Savior's BODY and BLOOD are as REAL as the baptismal WATER." (Kelly, pg 211)

So says J.N.D. Kelly, Oxford scholar and one of the greatest Protestant patristic scholars of the 20th century. Schaff may have been good last century, but his accounts on the Eucharist are incomplete and misleading. Further, Kelly goes on to say concerning -figura---

"Occasionally these writers use language which has been held to imply that, for all its realist sound, their use of the terms 'body' and 'blood' may after all be merely symbolical. Tertullian, for example, refers [E.g. C. Marc. 3,19; 4,40] to the bread as 'a figure'(figura) of Christ's body, and once speaks [Ibid I,14: cf. Hippolytus, apost. trad. 32,3] of 'the bread by which He represents (repraesentat) His very body.'

"YET WE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT INTERPRETING SUCH EXPRESSIONS IN A MODERN FASHION. According to ancient modes of thought a mysterious relationship existed between the thing symbolized and its symbol, figure or type; the symbol in some sense WAS the thing symbolized. Again, the verb -repraesentare-, in Tertullian's vocabulary [Cf. ibid 4,22; de monog. 10], retained its original significance of 'to make PRESENT.'

"All that his language really suggests is that, while accepting the EQUATION of the elements with the body and blood, he remains conscious of the sacramental distinction between them [as do Catholics today -- see the Catechism, paragraphs 1333ff].

"In fact, he is trying, with the aid of the concept of -figura-, to rationalize to himself the apparent contradiction between (a) the dogma that the elements are NOW Christ's body and blood, and (b) the empirical fact that for sensation they remain bread and wine." (JND Kelly, EARLY CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES, page 212)

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/num29.htm
Tiger Lily

Auckland, New Zealand

#431012 Apr 3, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
994
<quoted text>
Practically any info on the origin of the Bible will tell you the OT was translated from the Hebrew language and the NT from the Greek language..
Your words clearly show that you are definitely a serious student of the Bible!!!!!
I have shown you several verses in Scripture that says we go to Heaven as soon as we draw our last breath. You have every right to deny the truth in these verses...and continuing trying to prove the Sacred Word of God is in error...
All you have done is use a verse wrongly punctuated which is easy to understand if you know that Jesus did not go anywhere other than the tomb or the locality nearby for another 40 days.

You stubbornly cling to the idea that we do not sleep until the resurrection by quoting this one verse.

Yet I post many verses which prove we do sleep until reurrection day.

Here is some more...
John 3:13
New American Standard Bible
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
King James Bible
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

American King James Version
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

American Standard Version
And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

And ...

Ecclesiastes 9:5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.

But if you wish to believe you are right, go ahead. I don't mind at all.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#431013 Apr 3, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Clueless.
OT passages do not explain this supposed process.
Please stop misleading others with the bullshite.
In other words - your definition is the only one that you are willing to accept and you have no other definition.
Fail.
hey new age psuedo mystic, you're talking to someone who was born again/changed in an instant and i've never been the same since.

unlike your choosing to study psuedo mysticism, this didn't happen to me through my efforts (flesh and blood) but by the will of God so we're not talking about theory here, but an actual changed life. everyone who knew me then and knows me now can testify to my being born again well as i can, whether or not they think it's good or bad thing.
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#431014 Apr 3, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
So the Scribes and Pharisees didn't sin by killing Jesus?
Already then.
Our sins put Jesus on the cross Clay. Jesus came to die for all man kind, for all sin.
Jesus gave His life that we might live.
The Scribes and Pharisee's wanted Jesus dead, The romans wanted Him dead, for the same reasons greed and power .
The Jews made up lies about Jesus, to the Romans who crucified Him.
Every sinner on earth is responsible for killing Jesus.
We all are sinners that come short of the glory of God.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#431015 Apr 3, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
I was aware that Jesus was using a prophecy when He said, "Father, why have you forsaken me?"
But it still shows that Jesus had a need to communicate through prayer to His Father. Jesus is the Son of God. It was through Jesus the world was created.
JESUS IN HIS AGONY SAID

"Father, why have you forsaken me?" AND IT APPEARS THAT (THE HEAVENLY FATHER DID ...BUT FOR A SHORT TIME.)

BUT IN PSALMS IT SAYS...

Psa 18:6 In my distress I (JESUS) called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

Psa 18:7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he(THE HEAVENLY FATHER) was wroth.

Psa 18:8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.

Psa 18:9 He (THE HEAVENLY FATHER) bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

Psa 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

Psa 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.

Psa 18:12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.

-->NOTE THE EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE WHEN JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS..<--

Psa 18:13 --> The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

Psa 18:14 --->Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.

Psa 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and

the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
Psa 18:16 He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.

Psa 18:17 He delivered (JESUS) from my strong enemy,(DEATH) and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.

Psa 18:18 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay.

Psa 18:19 HE (THE HEAVENLY fATHER) brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.

Psa 18:20 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness;


according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

Psa 18:21 For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God.

Psa 18:22 For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me.

Psa 18:23 I(JESUS) was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity.

Psa 18:24 Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.
Tiger Lily

Auckland, New Zealand

#431016 Apr 3, 2013
Ecclesiastes 9 (Which is in the OT of the Bible)

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave,(Hebrew Sheol) where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

... until Jesus comes and awakens you from the dead.

Prayers on behalf of the dead have no meaning, for nothing can be changed by them.

God's Word shows that the dead no longer have any physical or mental activity (Psalm 146:4;

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10). Each person who dies sleeps in his grave in unconsciousness until the resurrection (John 5:28-29; Daniel 12:2; Job 19:25-26; 14:12-14; John 3:13; Acts 2:29, 34).

Clearly, prayers should be for the living while there is still hope of repentance, not for the dead, who can do nothing.

Prayers for the dead are based on the false teaching that man possesses an immortal soul.

Some believe that at death a wicked person's "immortal" soul is tormented in hell.

Friends and relatives then pray that the departed "soul" be spared some of its suffering.

However, the Bible says that the soul itself can die (Ezekiel 18:4, 20; also, compare the last parts of Genesis 2:7, 17).

In addition, Solomon says the human spirit (breath) returns to God, not to some place of punishment (Ecclesiastes 12:7; see Job 32:8).

God preserves the spirit (breath) until He can return it in the resurrection from the dead when eternal judgment—to either eternal life or eternal death—is determined (see Ezekiel 37:1-14; Revelation 20:14-15; 21:6-8).

There are absolutely no biblical grounds for the doctrine of the immortality of the soul.


God ALONE is immortal.

This is not some modern day theology. It has been there in Scripture for Millennia.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431017 Apr 3, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don't be faithless any longer. Believe!" John 20:27
Jesus then ate some fish. A spirit has no need for food.
I think you need some study on the life of Jesus after His resurrection.
Oh I see how it is....you'll quote Jesus here, but disregard all of his other teachings.

He was Spirit.

(24)

(1) His disciples said: "Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light, and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."

- NOTE - the question to Jesus is for him to "show us the place where you are".....NOT.....where are you going to, which would signify he he still on the planet.

I think you need to stop believing what men have told you to believe.

Why don't you believe Jesus?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431018 Apr 3, 2013
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don't be faithless any longer. Believe!" John 20:27
Jesus then ate some fish. A spirit has no need for food.
I think you need some study on the life of Jesus after His resurrection.
BTW - you forgot to answer why the earliest copy of GoMark doesn't have the resurrection.

Why?

You seem to know much about the Bible, so it would be wise to ask you this question, so I may have the correct answer.

So - why doesn't it?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431019 Apr 3, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
hey new age psuedo mystic, you're talking to someone who was born again/changed in an instant and i've never been the same since.
unlike your choosing to study psuedo mysticism, this didn't happen to me through my efforts (flesh and blood) but by the will of God so we're not talking about theory here, but an actual changed life. everyone who knew me then and knows me now can testify to my being born again well as i can, whether or not they think it's good or bad thing.
Self-interpretation - gotta love it!

I agree - we all get to choose on who we are. Thus signifying the Bible is of no use.
socci

Cameron, MO

#431020 Apr 3, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Self-interpretation - gotta love it!
I agree - we all get to choose on who we are. Thus signifying the Bible is of no use.

Without the Bible you dont even know Jesus. We know who he was through the written word.
socci

Cameron, MO

#431021 Apr 3, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
BTW - you forgot to answer why the earliest copy of GoMark doesn't have the resurrection.

What is a gomark?

The preserved Greek NT found with the Textus Receptus has just what is found translated to English KJV.

The Greek was preserved among the Greeks.

Next time you ask will be the same reply.
socci

Cameron, MO

#431022 Apr 3, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Oh I see how it is....you'll quote Jesus here, but disregard all of his other teachings.
He was Spirit.
(24)
(1) His disciples said: "Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light, and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."
- NOTE - the question to Jesus is for him to "show us the place where you are".....NOT.....where are you going to, which would signify he he still on the planet.
I think you need to stop believing what men have told you to believe.
Why don't you believe Jesus?

That made zero sense. Your word vs God's word:

Heavenly bodies as Jesus had after his resurrection, not some disembodied spirit or soul.

Luke 24:34-43 "Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon. And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. And as they thus spoke, Jesus himself stood in the middle of them, and said to them, Peace be to you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said to them, Why are you troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said to them, Have you here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."
Tiger Lily

Auckland, New Zealand

#431023 Apr 3, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I see how it is....you'll quote Jesus here, but disregard all of his other teachings.
He was Spirit.
(24)
(1) His disciples said: "Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light, and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."
- NOTE - the question to Jesus is for him to "show us the place where you are".....NOT.....where are you going to, which would signify he he still on the planet.
I think you need to stop believing what men have told you to believe.
Why don't you believe Jesus?
And why don't you believe Jesus rose from the dead BODILY?

His grave clothes were left folded in the tomb.

I believe the very textx I have posted. They stand for themselves.

When you realise this, they may be more significant to you.

He was the firstfruits from death.
He is the example of what is truth.
He rose from the tomb.

This is what the Bible plainly teaches. No bias put in by any man.
Clay

Union, NJ

#431024 Apr 3, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
You truly are stupid. Quote, "Human thought entwined with Divine insights created the Bible." Really! You should try keeping your mouth shut. When you open it you reveal your ignorance.
The "catholic" universal church gathered the Bible as directed by the Holy Spirit. It was not the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Try reading a Bible it will could open your closed pathetic Roman mind.
If you can't talk about Christianity without acting like you do, then don't do it. Frankly, its disturbing you'd refer to yourself as a Deacon of Jesus Christ.

Anywho, yes, it was the Catholic Church, holding council in Rome, that determined the Bible in the 4th century. So what's the problem?
How about you do some homework on where the title 'Roman' Catholic came from and when???

Hope you had a nice Easter!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#431025 Apr 3, 2013
007
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
Christ didn't get it wrong: you did.
You hang your belief on this ONE sentence. I base mine and will continue to on MANY, MANY verses. Such as...
They praise not the Lord nor exercise mental powers.
Psa. 6:5 Psa. 115:17 Psa. 8:10-12
Eccl. 9:4-6 Psa. 146:4 Isa. 38:18,19
They do not live until the resurrection.
Rev 20:4-6 1 Cor. 15:12-21
WHAT COMFORTING ASSURANCE DOES GOD GIVE CONCERNING THE DEAD?
1. That they will all be resurrected. John 5:28-29 Rev. 20:11-15
2. That they will all ultimately receive fullness of life through the saving work of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 15:22-28 1 Tim. 2:3-6 Rom. 5:18,19 1 Tim. 4:9-11
Now you have to lie to support your erroneous belief. Quote: You hang your belief on this ONE sentence.

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431026 Apr 3, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
You may have overlooked...
" An empty thing, or phantom, is incapable of a figure. If, however,(as Marcion might say,) He pretended the bread was His body, because He lacked the truth of bodily substance,"
in other words...
Christ had a physical human body(And a Spiritual body) because the bread at the Last Supper became Christ's Body.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03124.htm
Questions?
http://www.catholic.com/radio/about
don't know much about this,Marcion stuff first time i'm hearing about it,will have to read about it.funny thing about religion everyone has an answer but no one knows the questions.

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431027 Apr 3, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Without the Bible you dont even know Jesus. We know who he was through the written word.
only one set of written words,don't you find that odd?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#431028 Apr 3, 2013
012
Tiger Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
All you have done is use a verse wrongly punctuated which is easy to understand if you know that Jesus did not go anywhere other than the tomb or the locality nearby for another 40 days.
You stubbornly cling to the idea that we do not sleep until the resurrection by quoting this one verse.
Yet I post many verses which prove we do sleep until reurrection day.
Here is some more...
John 3:13
New American Standard Bible
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
King James Bible
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
American King James Version
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
American Standard Version
And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.
And ...
Ecclesiastes 9:5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.
But if you wish to believe you are right, go ahead. I don't mind at all.
Since you are convinced that the Sacred Infallible Word of God is in error (All you have done is use a verse wrongly punctuated which is easy to understand if you know that Jesus did not go anywhere other than the tomb or the locality nearby for another 40 days) my advise to you is to bring with you lots of fans and cool-aid.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431029 Apr 3, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Without the Bible you dont even know Jesus. We know who he was through the written word.
Incorrect conclusion.

We know who Jesus was, through the writings of men - in and outside fo the Bible.

Only men have claimed that Jesus was a certain character, in which certain traits were given him, and others were not.

So, in essence, your theology and dogma is flawed to think only the Bible is where we have learned of Jesus.

In fact, the Bible, or in the least, its core book, devised and decided upon in 325 CE, goes to show you that there was about 300 years of people believing in Jesus. Which also shows you are incorrect in your belief.

I think you and Tiger Lily must've missed those days in Bible study or they didn't include these facts.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431030 Apr 3, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
What is a gomark?
The preserved Greek NT found with the Textus Receptus has just what is found translated to English KJV.
The Greek was preserved among the Greeks.
Next time you ask will be the same reply.
For someone who thinks they are Bible literate, you just failed.

GoMark = Gospel of Mark

*sighs*

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