Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 574,236
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#427953 Mar 15, 2013
"What is the doctrine of eternal Sonship and is it biblical?"

Answer: The doctrine of eternal Sonship simply affirms that the second Person of the triune Godhead has eternally existed as the Son. In other words, there was never a time when He was not the Son of God, and there has always been a Father/Son relationship within the Godhead. This doctrine recognizes that the idea of Sonship is not merely a title or role that Christ assumed at some specific point in history, but that it is the essential identity of the second Person of the Godhead. According to this doctrine, Christ is and always has been the Son of God.

Yes, the eternal Sonship is biblical and is a view that is widely held among Christians and has been throughout church history. It is important, however, to remember when discussing the doctrine of eternal Sonship that there are evangelical Christians on both sides of this debate. This is not to say that this is not an important doctrine, because it is; it simply acknowledges the fact that there are orthodox or evangelical Christians that hold or have held both views. Those that deny the doctrine of eternal Sonship are not denying the triune nature of God or the deity or eternality of Christ, and those that embrace the eternal Sonship of Christ are not inferring that Jesus Christ was anything less than fully God.

Throughout church history the doctrine of eternal Sonship has been widely held, with most Christians believing that Jesus existed as God’s eternal Son before creation. It is affirmed in the Nicene Creed (325 A.D.) which states: "We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end." It was also later reaffirmed in the fifth century in the Athanasian Creed.

There is considerable biblical evidence to support the eternal Sonship of Christ. First of all, there are many passages that clearly identify that it was “the Son” who created all things (Colossians 1:13-16; Hebrews 1:2), thereby strongly implying that Christ was the Son of God at the time of creation. When one considers these passages, it seems clear that the most normal and natural meaning of the passages is that at the time of creation Jesus was the Son of God, the second Person of the Triune Godhead, thus supporting the doctrine of eternal Sonship.

cont
truth

Perth, Australia

#427954 Mar 15, 2013
people working in soilence prepeare thrmself for 50 years on front much more..you what you doing nothing..
i need go again see proper position what they prepeare whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

i know whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
they want control much more medern then you know or think
o yes yes yes they know whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
cmockkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
holy spirit
will lead you
me no i don't going do nothing wrong..nothing against anyone..i am not interesting about any person..not at all..i am looking what others did not know but they working against me in my name..
its not meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
by almightyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyy
will be what i know not others krukovici

I wish you all the best.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#427955 Mar 15, 2013
cont
Second, there are numerous verses that speak of God the Father sending the Son into the world to redeem sinful man (John 20:21; Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:14; 1 John 4:10) and giving His Son as a sacrifice for sin (John 3:16). Clearly implied in all the passages that deal with the Father sending/giving the Son is the fact that He was the Son before He was sent into the world. This is even more clearly seen in Galatians 4:4-6, where the term “sent forth” is used both of the Son and the Spirit. Just as the Holy Spirit did not become the Holy Spirit when He was sent to empower the believers at Pentecost, neither did the Son become the Son at the moment of His incarnation. All three Persons of the Triune Godhead have existed for all eternity, and their names reveal who they are, not simply what their title or function is.

cont
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#427956 Mar 15, 2013
cont
Third, 1 John 3:8 speaks of the appearance or manifestation of the Son of God:“the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” The verb “to make manifest” or “appeared” means to make visible or to bring to light something that was previously hidden. The idea communicated in this verse is not that the second Person of the trinity became the Son of God, but that the already existing Son of God was made manifest or appeared in order to fulfill God’s predetermined purpose. This idea is also seen in other verses such as John 11:27 and 1 John 5:20.
Fourth, Hebrews 13:8 teaches that “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever.” This verse again seems to support the doctrine of eternal Sonship. The fact that Jesus’ divine nature is unchanging would seem to indicate that He was always the Son of God because that is an essential part of His Person. At the incarnation Jesus took on human flesh, but His divine nature did not change, nor did His relationship with the Father. This same truth is also implied in John 20:31, where we see John’s purpose in writing his gospel was so that we might “believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.” It does not say that He became the Son of God but that He is the Son of God. The fact that Jesus was and is the Son of God is an essential aspect of Who He is and His work in redemption.
Finally, one of the strongest evidences for the eternal Sonship of Christ is the triune nature of God and the eternal relationship that exists among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Particularly important is the unique Father/Son relationship that can only be understood from the aspect of Christ’s eternal Sonship. This relationship is key to understanding the full measure of God’s love for those whom He redeems through the blood of Christ. The fact that God the Father took His Son, the very Son He loved from before the foundation of the world, and sent Him to be a sacrifice for our sins is an amazing act of grace and love that is best understood from the doctrine of eternal Sonship.
One verse that speaks of the eternal relationship between the Father and Son is John 16:28. "I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again, and going to the Father." Implied in this verse is again the fact that the Father/Son relationship between God the Father and God the Son is one that always has and always will exist. At His incarnation the Son “came from the Father” in the same sense as upon His resurrection He returned “to the Father.” Implied in this verse is the fact that if Jesus was the Son after the resurrection, then He was also the Son prior to His incarnation. Other verses that support the eternal Sonship of Christ would include John 17:5 and John 17:24, which speak of the Father’s love for the Son from “before the foundation of the world.”
After one considers the many arguments for the doctrine of eternal Sonship, it should become clear that this is indeed a biblical doctrine that finds much support in Scripture. However, that is not to imply that arguments cannot be made against the doctrine as well, or that all Christians will agree to this doctrine. While it has been the view of the majority of Christian commentators throughout history, there have been several prominent Christians on the other side of the issue as well.
cont
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#427957 Mar 15, 2013
cont
Those that deny the doctrine of eternal Sonship would instead hold to a view that is often referred to as the Incarnational Sonship, which teaches that while Christ preexisted, He was not always the Son of God. Those that hold this view believe Christ became the Son of God at some point in history, with the most common view being that Christ became the Son at His incarnation. However, there are others who believe Christ did not become the Son until sometime after His incarnation, such as at His baptism, His resurrection, or His exaltation. It is important to realize that those who deny the eternal Sonship of Christ still recognize and affirm His deity and His eternality.
Those who hold this view see the Sonship of Christ as not being an essential part of Who He is, but instead see it as simply being a role or a title or function that Christ assumed at His incarnation. They also teach that the Father became the Father at the time of the incarnation. Throughout history many conservative Christians have denied the doctrine of eternal Sonship. Some examples would include Ralph Wardlaw, Adam Clarke, Albert Barnes, Finis J. Dake, Walter Martin, and at one time John MacArthur. It is important to note, however, that several years ago John MacArthur changed his position on this doctrine and he now affirms the doctrine of eternal Sonship.
One of the verses commonly used to support Incarnational Sonship is Hebrews 1:5, which appears to speak of God the Father’s begetting of God the Son as an event that takes place at a specific point in time:“Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee. And again. I will be a Father to Him. And He shall be a Son to Me.” Those who hold to the doctrine of incarnational Sonship point out two important aspects of this verse. 1—that “begetting” normally speaks of a person’s origin, and 2—that a Son is normally subordinate to his father. They reject the doctrine of eternal Sonship in an attempt to preserve the perfect equality and eternality of the Persons of the Triune Godhead. In order to do so, they must conclude that “Son” is simply a title or function that Christ took on at His incarnation and that “Sonship” refers to the voluntary submission that Christ took to the Father at His incarnation (Philippians 2:5-8; John 5:19).
Some of the problems with the Incarnational Sonship of Christ are that this teaching confuses or destroys the internal relationships that exist within the Trinity, because if the Son is not eternally begotten by the Father, then neither did the Spirit eternally proceed from the Father through the Son. Also, if there is no Son prior to the incarnation, then there is no Father either; and yet throughout the Old Testament we see God being referred to as the Father of Israel. Instead of having a triune God eternally existing in three distinct Persons with three distinct names, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, those who hold to the doctrine of incarnational Sonship end up with a nameless Trinity prior to the incarnation, and we would be forced to say that God has chosen not to reveal Himself as He truly is, but only as He was to become. In other words, instead of actually revealing who He is, the Triune God instead chose to reveal Himself by the titles He would assume or the roles that He would take on and not who He really is. This is dangerously close to modalism and could easily lead to false teachings about the nature of God. One of the weaknesses of the doctrine of incarnational Sonship is that the basic relationships existing among the members of the Trinity are confused and diminished. Taken to its logical conclusion, denying the eternal Sonship of Christ reduces the Trinity from the relationship of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to simply Number One, Number Two and Number Three Persons—with the numbers themselves being an arbitrary designation, destroying the God-given order and relationship that exists among the Persons of the Trinity.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427958 Mar 15, 2013
945 879 833 698
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
I am just teasing you. We all need to lighten a little.
Thanks for reading my post.
Thanks for saying that....it is very difficult, at times, to understand that someone is just teasing, in that, we don't hear what "tone of voice" is being intended, not hearing any voice inflection, nor any face expressions, etc etc...

Am willing to lighten up!!!!

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#427959 Mar 15, 2013
who="MICHAEL"
If Canes wife was his sister, than that goes against all our own moral beliefs including the 10 commandments. What is the point in creating only 1 man and 1 woman if incest was the start of all of us?
Same with Mary and Joseph. The story claims Mary was very young, and Joseph was very old. My mother would not approve of a 40 something man dating my 15 year old sister.........another flawed moral teaching.

__________

Worldly people have mistreated the Bible in an attempt to destroy it. All Godly people are pictured in story books as toothless and shaggy headed. If they were cave-men, why are others well groomed, and in fancy houses? Joseph WAS NOT an old widower. Someone was trying to reason that no young man would marry a teen-ager who was pregnant.

What difference does it make that we don't know where Cain got his wife?

Don't let your bad experience with people turn you against God. THAT leaves you with THEM alone, and NO God! HE is the One Who is REAL.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427960 Mar 15, 2013
949 792 494 414
7th Day Catholic Rocks wrote:
<quoted text>Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel
Woman has an egg so there was a seed planted in her from somewhere right ?
In Ge 3:15 show me the word "egg"...

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#427961 Mar 15, 2013
LTM: Those that deny the doctrine of eternal Sonship would instead hold to a view that is often referred to as the Incarnational Sonship, which teaches that while Christ preexisted, He was not always the Son of God. Those that hold this view believe Christ became the Son of God at some point in history, with the most common view being that Christ became the Son at His incarnation. However, there are others who believe Christ did not become the Son until sometime after His incarnation, such as at His baptism, His resurrection, or His exaltation. It is important to realize that those who deny the eternal Sonship of Christ still recognize and affirm His deity and His eternality.

________

God was/is eternal. Jesus said (John 17)that He and the Father are ONE. Jesus/God clothed Himself (His Word) in flesh so that He could reveal Himself to us. The flesh was not God...though He raised it to immortality to show us His plan for us. Colossians: Christ in you is YOUR HOPE OF GLORY.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#427962 Mar 15, 2013
who="7th Day Catholic Rocks" Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel
Woman has an egg so there was a seed planted in her from somewhere right ?

__________

The MYSTERY of godliness is not ours to figure out. Things revealed belong to us, but those NOT revealed are His...not ours.
Come out of her MY people

Bell, CA

#427963 Mar 15, 2013
the Bible IS THE ONLY AUTHORITY. IF YOU DON'T READ IT AND OBEY IT YOU CAN WITHOUT A DOUBT KNOW YOU WILL BE IN HELL AND THE LAKE OF FIRE. 2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.THE WORD IS IN THE BIBLE, NOT IN CATHOLICISM. PETER WAS NEVER A POPE, NEVER IN ROME AND HE WAS MARRIED. IT'S ALL IN THE BIBLE. WHEN JESUS SAVED ME HIS HOLY SPIRIT LED ME TO GET A KING JAMES BIBLE AND HE SAID THIS IS MY AUTHORITY!
Joh_10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

#427964 Mar 15, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
I got it now.....you have this already prepared in a Word document for ease fo copying and pasting, and haven't figured out how to express your own thoughts, huh?
It happens to the best of Catholics at some point in their life.
Nope!! Wrong again as usual New Age! I don't need to copy and paste anything! It's called "AD-LIBBING ----the--- TRUTH!! Two words that have "escaped your vocabulary as well as your thinking!!
truth

Perth, Australia

#427965 Mar 15, 2013
mistreated..say again ..please
people..no..

Church is not definition of that..you need find out about authority of church and leaders within authority..they call that as within church Hierarchy.
Why you say people..please explain?

I say people..why..Jesus Christ is been teacher which direct been with people on that time.
truth

Perth, Australia

#427966 Mar 15, 2013
Hearts and mind.
Please explain impact over people.
Both side used that as negative as well positive side.
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

#427967 Mar 15, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, no hojo - what you do is a tactic that is called "brainwashing", and has been used by all kinds of people and cults to control their followers. I can see it works very well with you.
Repeating it over and over again, will NOT make it true.
The One True Catholic Church has been verified, recorded and proven for over 2000 years and whether I repeat it over and over again, doesn't change change "anything"! It still remains an authenticated and proven FACT of biblical and historical Church History! What it comes down to is that your "rejection and denial" of this recorded TRUTH of the Catholic Church --now becomes "your problem"! Your denial of the TRUTH of Jesus Christs One True Church has not,and will not "EVER" make it "untrue"!
truth

Perth, Australia

#427968 Mar 15, 2013
godliness

Lucifer know about creation.
Please explain who used that against people as weakness to control as well let down.
Did you wrote Jesus Christ come between us sinners help us..you did not say that..don't you..yes you are wrote before.
Please explain why is like that.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#427969 Mar 15, 2013
961
confrinting with the word wrote:
LTM: Those that deny the doctrine of eternal Sonship would instead hold to a view that is often referred to as the Incarnational Sonship, which teaches that while Christ preexisted, He was not always the Son of God. Those that hold this view believe Christ became the Son of God at some point in history, with the most common view being that Christ became the Son at His incarnation. However, there are others who believe Christ did not become the Son until sometime after His incarnation, such as at His baptism, His resurrection, or His exaltation. It is important to realize that those who deny the eternal Sonship of Christ still recognize and affirm His deity and His eternality.
________
God was/is eternal. Jesus said (John 17)that He and the Father are ONE. Jesus/God clothed Himself (His Word) in flesh so that He could reveal Himself to us. The flesh was not God...though He raised it to immortality to show us His plan for us. Colossians: Christ in you is YOUR HOPE OF GLORY.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The fact of the incarnation

The Incarnation implies three facts:(1) The Divine Person of Jesus Christ; (2) The Human Nature of Jesus Christ; (3) The Hypostatic Union of the Human with the Divine Nature in the Divine Person of Jesus Christ.

God twice plainly stated that Jesus Christ was His Son, once at His baptism, once at the "transfiguration":

"3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw The Spirit Of God descending like a dove [see also Christian Doves], and lighting upon him: 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

"17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

The Bible is the infallible Word of God...if anyone "sees Scripture" that contradicts what God said...then the Bible is fallible...

Period...
guest

United States

#427970 Mar 15, 2013
guest wrote:
-
-
"You will know the truth and the truth will set you free."
.
-
the "gates of hell" have not brought down the Catholic church. To loosely quote Clay, The gates of hell have not prevailed against the church "even from within".... I am flabbergasted that that does not tell you something.
-
-
Matthew 12:
http://niv.scripturetext.com/matthew/12.htm
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them,“EVERY KINGDOM DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF WILL BE RUINED, and every city or household
-
-
hojo wrote:
Yes!! "The TRUTH HAS set me free"! Free (after 35 years) from the "bondage of Protestant (BIBLE ONLY) "hypocricy, bigotry,(half-truth Christianity and judgmental condemnation" against the TRUTH of Jesus Christs and His One (and only) True Church, since the Reformation..
What your comments "tell me" is that you have "bought into" the bible only heretical lies that have "divided and separated" Jesus Christ into divisions, which Paul warns and chastises the Early Christians (against) in I Cor 1:10------Any division, that you refer to in Matthew 12, has come "directly" from the Protestant Reformation (AND) has expanded into a "rapid cancer of" (42,000+) "editorialized personal opinions) that are ALL contradicting, conflicting and inconsistent denominations...... This is just more of the same Protestant hodge-podge of confusion, chaos and "relative (half)truth" Christianity that has been dividing the "body of Christ" for over 500 years.----What it "tells me" is that you have been "duped" by your "half-truth, half-heresy" bible only Christianity, which has "no basis" of ANY biblical or historical truth, to back up ANYTHING that it believes OR teaches!!
-
-
what you fail to understand is that Catholicism was not started by Christ.
-
it's like the wife who finds her husband in bed with another woman and the man says, "I am not having sex with this woman, are you going to believe me or your lying eyes?"
-
Jesus said, "Call no man Father."
pope said, "call mere men 'father." in essence calling Jesus himself a LIAR! along with all those who adhere to his direct command to not call men father, and get out of the church that insists that they do.
-
Your pope is asking you to disbelieve your own eyes and agree that he is a peaceful man of God even when he orders the murder and torture of heretics!
-
Your pope is asking you to disbelieve your own eyes and agree that he is a peaceful man when he covers up, FOR CENTURIES for pedophiles raping little boys.
-
Your pope is asking you to disbelieve your own eyes and agree that he is a peaceful man of God even when he signs a concordat with Hitler to murder the Jews.
-
Your pope is asking you to disbelieve your own eyes and agree that he is a peaceful man of God when he insists on infallibility and then the next pope reverses his position.
-
I could go on.
-
Your pope is asking you to disbelieve your own eyes and agree that he is a peaceful man of God when he lies straight faced to the Catholics of the world.
-
Your pope has said your very eyes are lying to you as he tells you Jesus is the liar and the pope, himself, is the one telling the truth.
-
The truth can't "set you free", hojo, if you don't even know what it is.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#427971 Mar 15, 2013
christ had one ball wrote:
it's inspiring that the new pope can molest so many kids with just one lung.
go francis the talking mule---all the way to those tijuana donkey shows.
Just because your daddy allowed the neighbor's dogs to shag the arse off of you, doesn't mean that you can go around with a purple condom hanging out of your hole.

Stanley says that you reek.

Stanley also says that you are going to get a seat reserved on one of the assigned BLACK Buses.

Its only a matter to time until the minders of the BLACK Bus show up in your tiny room and haul you off your filty mattress and drag you out kicking and screaming with No time to haul down that 2 foot dilto that you keep parked up your annus.

Go Figure.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#427972 Mar 15, 2013
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Stanely says to me that you are a phoney, and some other nasty names.
I tell it like it is, like it or not Ollie!
This is Stanley... and Ollie is no more phoney than you are, you hateful, hypocritical, hAtheistic schidt-for-brains.

Another fact is that you are destined to showUP at the BLACK Bus station sometime in the future for your one-way ride to your ultimate party.

While on the assigned BLACK Bus, the dedicated driver (who we have seconded from 'ol Scratch himself) will be cornHoling you every so often. So often in fact, that you will lose so much weight that when you arrive at your end destination...you will be nothing left but a sagging foreSkin with a Tattoo on it reading 'I am the last of the wannabees'. Meanwhile your screams for your mommy will go unheeded as the designated BLACK Bus driver's minders ram things up your lower extremities so far that your eyeBalls will fall out on your cheeks. That doesn't matter though, because the seat next to you will be occupied by a more ugly bastard...if you can believe that.

Ollie sends his worst regards and says 'you are one ugly prick to begin with'.

Go Figure.

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