Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 542,742
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
David McIntyre

Bexley, Australia

#423686 Feb 19, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
YOU CAN SPOUT YOU FABLES ALL YOU PLEASE..
THE APOSTLE PAUL WARNED TIMOTHY...He prophesied .that there would be those such as yourself...
He said
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2==> Preach the word;<== be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
You will not be judged by the roman catholic catechism when you stand before God in judgment...
YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY GOD'S WORD...
BEST.. ADHERE TO GOD'S WORD AND LEAVE YOUR FABLES AND CONJECTURE TO THE PAGANS.
Dear Friend
They are not "fables", read the Scriptures! Don't you want to be a "Bible Christian" on every issue now?
Show me how your opinions about the meaning of Scripture are divinely guaranteed? Clearly they are not. You pick up the Scriptures and say "by reading this God gives me his truth" yet you all disagree with eachother. Mmmmmm.
Catholics simply follow Jesus through the Church he established and promised to guide until the end. Jesus knew men are imperfect and would sometimes fail. It comes down to trust in Christ's promises. You need to trust Christ,rather than your own interpretaions of Holy Scripture.
Your PREFERENCES for the meaning of Scripture are irrelevent. What IS important is the ACTUAL MEANING of Scripture. We know the actual meaning of Scripture by examining the writings of the EARLY CHURCH.
They were undisputably Catholic on every point of belief. They believed in the teaching Church as final authority and rejected privite interpretation, the Succession of Peter and the Apostles, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, Confession of sins to the Bishop or his priests, Asking the prayers of the Saints, The special Motherhood of Mary, That we are totally saved BY Grace-alone but that we must RESPOND to this in faith and good works, etc
Your religion is simply the invention of some men in the 1500's.
Your assertions about Scriptuer are simply attempts to justify your indefensible position.
Long live the Successor of ST Peter
Dave McIntyre
marge

Ames, IA

#423687 Feb 19, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
YOU CAN SPOUT YOU FABLES ALL YOU PLEASE..
THE APOSTLE PAUL WARNED TIMOTHY...He prophesied .that there would be those such as yourself...
He said
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2==> Preach the word;<== be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
You will not be judged by the roman catholic catechism when you stand before God in judgment...
YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY GOD'S WORD...
BEST.. ADHERE TO GOD'S WORD AND LEAVE YOUR FABLES AND CONJECTURE TO THE PAGANS.
AMEN

What in the world do they think they will be judged by? and they so proudly disobey, so sad.

We can pray, I would like to drop a Bible on their head, hello.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#423688 Feb 19, 2013
669
David McIntyre wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear "Guest"
You can shoot off quotes from Holy Scripture until the cows come home. But the fact is that your or my OPINIONS and PREFERENCES for the meaning of Scripture are irrelevent.
What IS important is the ACTUAL meaning of Scripture. We know this by examining the writings of the EARLY CHURCH.
They were Catholic on every point.
Most significantly, the Early Church of the New Testament times, whilst greatly loving Sriptures immensley, TOTALLY REJECTED a system of Private Interpretation. Their final authority was the teaching Church which Christ promised to guide until the end.
Private interpretation by it's very nature leads to continual division.
Every Protestant claims to have arrived at the truth through Bible reading. So which of the 60,000 (and growing) Protestant groups would you have people join??? The suggestion that Christ would abandon his promise to guide the Church in truth until the end, and then replace this with a system in which his truth comes in thousands of versions is absurd!!!
Long live the Successors of St Peter and the Apostles.
Horse feathers!!!!

None of the seven churches Christ talked about in Rev 2 are referred to as "Catholic"....why? Very simple.....there were none!!!!

The Catholic Church did not "make the scene" until circa 312....and you have the Emperor Constantine to thank for its source...paganism....

Quote:
Roman Catholicism
Founder: Emperor Constantine

The Roman Catholic church, headquartered in Rome, Italy, has its own powerful City-State, the Vatican. The Roman Catholic church unofficially came into being in 312 A.D., at the time of the so-called "miraculous conversion" to Christianity of the Roman Emperor Constantine but he still worshipped the sun god.

Although Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until the edicts of Theodosius I in 380 and 381 A.D., Constantine, from 312 A.D. until his death in 337, was engaged in the process of simultaneously building pagan temples and Christian churches, and was slowly turning over the reins of his pagan priesthood to the Bishop of Rome.

However, the family of Constantine did not give up the last vestige of his priesthood until after the disintegration of the Roman Empire that being the title the emperors bore as heads of the pagan priesthood Pontifex Maximus a title which the popes would inherit.

The popes also inherited Constantine's titles as the self-appointed civil head of the church Summus Pontifex (Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Bishops).

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#423689 Feb 19, 2013
669
David McIntyre wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear "Guest"
You can shoot off quotes from Holy Scripture until the cows come home. But the fact is that your or my OPINIONS and PREFERENCES for the meaning of Scripture are irrelevent.
What IS important is the ACTUAL meaning of Scripture. We know this by examining the writings of the EARLY CHURCH.
They were Catholic on every point.
Most significantly, the Early Church of the New Testament times, whilst greatly loving Sriptures immensley, TOTALLY REJECTED a system of Private Interpretation. Their final authority was the teaching Church which Christ promised to guide until the end.
Private interpretation by it's very nature leads to continual division.
Every Protestant claims to have arrived at the truth through Bible reading. So which of the 60,000 (and growing) Protestant groups would you have people join??? The suggestion that Christ would abandon his promise to guide the Church in truth until the end, and then replace this with a system in which his truth comes in thousands of versions is absurd!!!
Long live the Successors of St Peter and the Apostles.
Catholics maintain Scripture in Mt 16:18 proves Christ built the Catholic Church, because He made Peter the first pope...

Well...guess what!!!! For Peter to be the first pope, there had to be, at that instant, a Catholic Church, or, at the very least, one before he died, thing is, there was not...

Proof: When Christ referred to the seven churches in Rev 2, He never referred to any of them as the Catholic Church...nor did He mention any church in Rome....

But...Catholics deny the truth...that is their mainstay....
marge

Ames, IA

#423690 Feb 19, 2013
David McIntyre wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear Friend
They are not "fables", read the Scriptures! Don't you want to be a "Bible Christian" on every issue now?
Show me how your opinions about the meaning of Scripture are divinely guaranteed? Clearly they are not. You pick up the Scriptures and say "by reading this God gives me his truth" yet you all disagree with eachother. Mmmmmm.
Catholics simply follow Jesus through the Church he established and promised to guide until the end. Jesus knew men are imperfect and would sometimes fail. It comes down to trust in Christ's promises. You need to trust Christ,rather than your own interpretaions of Holy Scripture.
Your PREFERENCES for the meaning of Scripture are irrelevent. What IS important is the ACTUAL MEANING of Scripture. We know the actual meaning of Scripture by examining the writings of the EARLY CHURCH.
They were undisputably Catholic on every point of belief. They believed in the teaching Church as final authority and rejected privite interpretation, the Succession of Peter and the Apostles, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, Confession of sins to the Bishop or his priests, Asking the prayers of the Saints, The special Motherhood of Mary, That we are totally saved BY Grace-alone but that we must RESPOND to this in faith and good works, etc
Your religion is simply the invention of some men in the 1500's.
Your assertions about Scriptuer are simply attempts to justify your indefensible position.
Long live the Successor of ST Peter
Dave McIntyre
I will testify that he(confrinting), is a servant of the One and Only God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth.

Others here also born-again from above will say the same thing as we are of the One Faith.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#423691 Feb 19, 2013
690
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
I will testify that he(confrinting), is a servant of the One and Only God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth.
Others here also born-again from above will say the same thing as we are of the One Faith.
We don't all follow the teaching of the Bible....some disregard:

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

When the SBC church I attend will allow a woman to preach to the congregation...I am gone like a spotted ape!!!! To have a woman do so is past being sacrilegious!!!! It vilifies the Word of God...
marge

Ames, IA

#423693 Feb 19, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
690
<quoted text>
We don't all follow the teaching of the Bible....some disregard:
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
When the SBC church I attend will allow a woman to preach to the congregation...I am gone like a spotted ape!!!! To have a woman do so is past being sacrilegious!!!! It vilifies the Word of God...
Maybe there's a reason my two cents usurps you?

And why yell at me and not Ltm, she preaches the truth more than you ever did.

See ya. Blessings

David McIntyre

Sydney, Australia

#423694 Feb 19, 2013
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
I will testify that he(confrinting), is a servant of the One and Only God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth.
Others here also born-again from above will say the same thing as we are of the One Faith.
With respect, the only thing you share is your notion that God will enable you to arrive at his truth though Bible reading. So how is it that you all disagree and continue to divide. There are now over 60,000 Protestant groups. They disagree on the big things ancluding Scripture-alone and Faith-alone, and they govern and worship separately. You are certainy are not One, and you are certainly not One with the Early Church who were Catholic on every point.
truth

Australia

#423695 Feb 19, 2013
now
rosary is the best weapons then anything..
no silence front of throne they pray too
day and night never silence..
holy holy holy
David McIntyre

Sydney, Australia

#423696 Feb 19, 2013
Dear Confriter with the Word
You claimed that the Ave Maria is a fable.
Here below is abundant Scriptural evidence for every word and intention for the prayer, all strictly from Scripture!
What is wonderful about our conversation is that all our Protestant friends lacking full communion with Christ's Church, get to hear the truth about the Catholic Church strait from a Catholic.

The Rosary and Sacred Scripture

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you".
Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love.

"Blessed art thou among women"
Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."
Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."
Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Mary is created free from Original Sin but her condition is still made possible only through the Cross.

"Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus"
Luke 1:42b "and blessed is the fruit of your womb."
Jesus is Mary's fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.

"Holy Mary, Mother of God"
Luke 1:43 "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Mary is not above God and does not create God. She simply gave birth to the undivided Second Person of the Trinity.

"Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen".
Luke 2:35 "...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
John 2:5 "His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it.

"Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death".
Intercessory prayer proceeds from faith in God that holy men and women who have died are as alive today as they were on earth (Luke 20:38). If the prayer of the just man avails much, how much more the prayer of the one made perfect (Rev. 21:27) and living with God in heaven (the patriarchs, apostles and other holy men and women).
James 5:16b "the fervent prayer of a righteous man is very powerful."
Rev. 5:8 "When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
The angels, too, mediate our prayers. This is taught explicitly in the Jewish book of Tobit (Tob. 12:12), accepted by Christians as inspired until Luther on his own authority rejected it. It remains part of the Catholic Bible.
Tobit 12:12 I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and I did the same thing when you used to bury the dead.
Rev. 8:3 "Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne."

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#423697 Feb 19, 2013
693
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe there's a reason my two cents usurps you?
And why yell at me and not Ltm, she preaches the truth more than you ever did.
See ya. Blessings
There is a reason....you vilify the Word of God. Am not aware that ltm is a minister...One who is authorized to perform religious functions in a Christian church...
David McIntyre

Sydney, Australia

#423698 Feb 19, 2013
Dear "Pastor"
You claimed that the Ave Maria is a fable.
Here below is abundant Scriptural evidence for every word and intention in thethe prayer!
What is wonderful about our conversation is that all our Protestant friends lwho lack full communion with Christ's Church, can hear the truth about the Catholic Church strait from a Catholic! All with evidence they can check for themselves!

The Rosary and Sacred Scripture
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you".
Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love.
"Blessed art thou among women"
Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."
Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."
Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Mary is created free from Original Sin but her condition is still made possible only through the Cross.
"Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus"
Luke 1:42b "and blessed is the fruit of your womb."
Jesus is Mary's fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.
"Holy Mary, Mother of God"
Luke 1:43 "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Mary is not above God and does not create God. She simply gave birth to the undivided Second Person of the Trinity.
"Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen".
Luke 2:35 "...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
John 2:5 "His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it.
"Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death".
Intercessory prayer proceeds from faith in God that holy men and women who have died are as alive today as they were on earth (Luke 20:38). If the prayer of the just man avails much, how much more the prayer of the one made perfect (Rev. 21:27) and living with God in heaven (the patriarchs, apostles and other holy men and women).
James 5:16b "the fervent prayer of a righteous man is very powerful."
Rev. 5:8 "When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
The angels, too, mediate our prayers. This is taught explicitly in the Jewish book of Tobit (Tob. 12:12), accepted by Christians as inspired until Luther on his own authority rejected it. It remains part of the Catholic Bible.
Tobit 12:12 I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and I did the same thing when you used to bury the dead.
Rev. 8:3 "Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne."

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#423699 Feb 19, 2013
696
David McIntyre wrote:
Dear Confriter with the Word
You claimed that the Ave Maria is a fable.
Here below is abundant Scriptural evidence for every word and intention for the prayer, all strictly from Scripture!
What is wonderful about our conversation is that all our Protestant friends lacking full communion with Christ's Church, get to hear the truth about the Catholic Church strait from a Catholic.
The Rosary and Sacred Scripture
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you".
Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love.
"Blessed art thou among women"
Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."
Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."
Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Mary is created free from Original Sin but her condition is still made possible only through the Cross.
"Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus"
Luke 1:42b "and blessed is the fruit of your womb."
Jesus is Mary's fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.
"Holy Mary, Mother of God"
Luke 1:43 "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Mary is not above God and does not create God. She simply gave birth to the undivided Second Person of the Trinity.
"Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen".
Luke 2:35 "...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
John 2:5 "His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it.
"Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death".
Intercessory prayer proceeds from faith in God that holy men and women who have died are as alive today as they were on earth (Luke 20:38). If the prayer of the just man avails much, how much more the prayer of the one made perfect (Rev. 21:27) and living with God in heaven (the patriarchs, apostles and other holy men and women).
Edited for space....

Horse puckette!!!

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you".

Luke 1:28 does not say "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you...it says: "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."

You are changing Scripture to make it say what you want it to say.....
socci

Lawson, MO

#423700 Feb 19, 2013
David McIntyre wrote:
With respect, the only thing you share is your notion that God will enable you to arrive at his truth though Bible reading. So how is it that you all disagree and continue to divide. There are now over 60,000 Protestant groups. They disagree on the big things ancluding Scripture-alone and Faith-alone, and they govern and worship separately. You are certainy are not One, and you are certainly not One with the Early Church who were Catholic on every point.

There's about 900 denominations in the USA, as little as 100 in NZ. How many in Aus?

They all do agree on scripture alone, and no Apocryphal books. If not what other books do they use? If they use other books they arent really Christian at all.
socci

Lawson, MO

#423701 Feb 19, 2013
David McIntyre wrote:
Dear "Pastor"
You claimed that the Ave Maria is a fable.
Here below is abundant Scriptural evidence for every word and intention in thethe prayer!
What is wonderful about our conversation is that all our Protestant friends lwho lack full communion with Christ's Church, can hear the truth about the Catholic Church strait from a Catholic! All with evidence they can check for themselves!
The Rosary and Sacred Scripture
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you".
Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love.
"Blessed art thou among women"
Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."
Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."

"But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." (Luke 11:28)

The book of Tobit is an unrecognized uninspired work of no importance, used by Rome to support her heresies.
marge

Ames, IA

#423702 Feb 19, 2013
David McIntyre wrote:
<quoted text>
With respect, the only thing you share is your notion that God will enable you to arrive at his truth though Bible reading. So how is it that you all disagree and continue to divide. There are now over 60,000 Protestant groups. They disagree on the big things ancluding Scripture-alone and Faith-alone, and they govern and worship separately. You are certainy are not One, and you are certainly not One with the Early Church who were Catholic on every point.
That is not true we do agree with Scripture alone and Faith in Jesus Alone for Salvation and more, Yes us born-again from God above are One and there are about four or five of us here that post daily.
4GVN

Jackson, MO

#423703 Feb 19, 2013
David McIntyre wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear "Guest"
You can shoot off quotes from Holy Scripture until the cows come home. But the fact is that your or my OPINIONS and PREFERENCES for the meaning of Scripture are irrelevent.
What IS important is the ACTUAL meaning of Scripture. We know this by examining the writings of the EARLY CHURCH.
They were Catholic on every point.
Most significantly, the Early Church of the New Testament times, whilst greatly loving Sriptures immensley, TOTALLY REJECTED a system of Private Interpretation. Their final authority was the teaching Church which Christ promised to guide until the end.
Private interpretation by it's very nature leads to continual division.
Every Protestant claims to have arrived at the truth through Bible reading. So which of the 60,000 (and growing) Protestant groups would you have people join??? The suggestion that Christ would abandon his promise to guide the Church in truth until the end, and then replace this with a system in which his truth comes in thousands of versions is absurd!!!
Long live the Successors of St Peter and the Apostles.
Sorry, David, but you do not judge scripture by the church, but you judge the church by scripture. It is scripture that is the very "word of God." The Catholic church has taught error by example on many occasions. But God's word stands forever true.
marge

Ames, IA

#423704 Feb 19, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
693
<quoted text>
There is a reason....you vilify the Word of God. Am not aware that ltm is a minister...One who is authorized to perform religious functions in a Christian church...
Well there you go and admit there are female Disciples, nite Oxbow, love you.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#423705 Feb 19, 2013
696
David McIntyre wrote:
Dear Confriter with the Word
You claimed that the Ave Maria is a fable.
Here below is abundant Scriptural evidence for every word and intention for the prayer, all strictly from Scripture!
What is wonderful about our conversation is that all our Protestant friends lacking full communion with Christ's Church, get to hear the truth about the Catholic Church strait from a Catholic.
The Rosary and Sacred Scripture
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you".
Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love.
"Blessed art thou among women"
Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."
Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."
Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Mary is created free from Original Sin but her condition is still made possible only through the Cross.
"Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus"
Luke 1:42b "and blessed is the fruit of your womb."
Jesus is Mary's fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.
"Holy Mary, Mother of God"
Luke 1:43 "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Mary is not above God and does not create God. She simply gave birth to the undivided Second Person of the Trinity.
"Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen".
Luke 2:35 "...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
John 2:5 "His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it.
"Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death".
Intercessory prayer proceeds from faith in God that holy men and women who have died are as alive today as they were on earth (Luke 20:38). If the prayer of the just man avails much, how much more the prayer of the one made perfect (Rev. 21:27) and living with God in heaven (the patriarchs, apostles and other holy men and women).
James 5:16b "the fervent prayer of a righteous man is very powerful."
Rev. 5:8 "When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
The angels, too, mediate our prayers. This is taught explicitly in the Jewish book of Tobit (Tob. 12:12), accepted by Christians as inspired until Luther on his own authority rejected it. It remains part of the Catholic Bible.
Edited for space...

There is no Scripture that says: "Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen".

BTW Christ taught that we are to pray to the God the Father, in His name...there is no Scripture that teaches otherwise...
David McIntyre

Sydney, Australia

#423706 Feb 19, 2013
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, David, but you do not judge scripture by the church, but you judge the church by scripture. It is scripture that is the very "word of God." The Catholic church has taught error by example on many occasions. But God's word stands forever true.
The Scriptures came from the Early Church and we ascertain it's true meaning of Scripture by looking at what the Early Church believed. We do not ascertain it's meaning my reading the Bible and concuding "God showed me what it means" as Protestants claim. Look at the Early Church evidence- they undestood the Scriptures as Cathoilics on every account!

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