Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 543,219
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423530 Feb 19, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
No I would never understand why God would forbid musical instruments at worship.
He gave some of ya beautiful voices and some, the ability to play the piano. Your voice - when sung to the notes - is an instrument anyway.
As far as I know, you guys are the only Christian sect that sees the Bible that way.
Its just like people who claim God gets offended at a beautiful sculpture of Mary holding the infant Jesus.
I'm not sure why he would either, but worship is to please Him. Worship is not intended for our entertainment or pleasure. As soon as I find a NT example of instruments (other than the one in us that God created) being used in worship, I will avoid their use. No one has ever shown me how it would be sinful for me to not use one for worship.

Better safe than sorry.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423531 Feb 19, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
No I would never understand why God would forbid musical instruments at worship.
He gave some of ya beautiful voices and some, the ability to play the piano. Your voice - when sung to the notes - is an instrument anyway.
As far as I know, you guys are the only Christian sect that sees the Bible that way.
Its just like people who claim God gets offended at a beautiful sculpture of Mary holding the infant Jesus.
Matt. 7:14 Per your second to last sentence.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#423532 Feb 19, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
No I would never understand why God would forbid musical instruments at worship.
He gave some of ya beautiful voices and some, the ability to play the piano. Your voice - when sung to the notes - is an instrument anyway.
As far as I know, you guys are the only Christian sect that sees the Bible that way.
Its just like people who claim God gets offended at a beautiful sculpture of Mary holding the infant Jesus.
As beautiful as some of these art works are Clay, claiming they are Mary and the baby Jesus is blaspheme.
For one thing you have no idea what Mary or baby Jesus looks like.
Second people bow to these statues and pray , adorn them kisses this worship which belongs to God alone, which you give to another.
Third, we are not to make graven images of anything in Heaven and in the earth or beneth the earth. That is a Commandment of God ,
which has been blantingly disobeyed.
"ALL WORSHIP, ALL PRIASE, ALL GLORY BELONGS TO GOD, AND NO OTHER, NOT EVEN MARY." IT IS BLASPHEME TO DO SO.
Justice

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#423533 Feb 19, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure why he would either, but worship is to please Him. Worship is not intended for our entertainment or pleasure...
I have been to a Pentecostal service where they have a stage and a band. It is very centered around the music. I think its called entertainment worship, centered around rock and roll. Dancing away to rock music, guitars drums and rock music. I realise they want to bring in young people, but am not sure that this is the best way to do it. Strikes me a in some way sacrilegious and lacking in respect. Cant quite put my finger on why, but it creeped me out. Maybe it works for some people, but I had a difficult time relating to it.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#423534 Feb 19, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:14 Per your second to last sentence.
Good Morning, "Sadan" you are an early riser to I see!
It is another snowing day in the great white Northern part of Canada, the good news is that it has warmed up quite a bit, it's only -4 warming up to -1 balmy weather.
Kids have had so many snow days, the teachers didn't need to go on strike. Snow shoes, ski-doo's, and snowmobles is the normal things to drive up here this time of year.
truth

Australia

#423535 Feb 19, 2013
http://bible.cc/genesis/6-3.htm
moja te usta najvise spominju
tears
he will restore

now
izmisljotino
i.. zmije=snake
i.. zmaje dragons
neka te slave svi puci i jezici
neka se spase
Justice

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#423536 Feb 19, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Third, we are not to make graven images of anything in Heaven and in the earth or beneth the earth. That is a Commandment of God ,
If you take a strict literalist view then the the brazen serpent and the golden cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant were also idolatry.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#423537 Feb 19, 2013
"Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?"

Answer: The theory that the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion, among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself”(Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible.

But Paul’s apostolic authority has been well documented in Scripture, beginning with his dramatic Damascus Road experience which changed him from a Christ-hating persecutor of Christians to the foremost spokesman for the faith. His astonishing change of heart is one of the clearest indications of his anointing by the Lord Jesus Himself.

Tom Tarrants, once labeled “the most dangerous man in Mississippi,” was one of the top men on the FBI’s most wanted list. Tarrants was a member of the Ku Klux Klan and despised African-Americans and Jews, a people he fully believed were God’s enemies and involved in a communist plot against America. Tarrants was responsible for bombing some 30 synagogues, churches and homes. He was so dangerous that the FBI director, J. Edgar Hoover, sent a special team of FBI agents that were used to infiltrate the Russian KGB down into the American South to locate and apprehend Tarrants. They were successful and took Tarrants into custody after a violent shootout. Tarrants received a 30-year sentence in the Mississippi State Penitentiary.

While in prison, Tarrants one day asked for a Bible and began reading it. He got as far as Matthew 16 and was confronted with Jesus’ words:“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?” He couldn’t escape the impact of Christ’s statement and got down on his knees in his cell and asked God to deliver him from his sinful life.

Word of Tarrant’s conversion soon began to spread throughout the prison and ultimately made it all the way back to Hoover, who strongly doubted the story. How could such a true change in such a hardened, evil person be validated?

About 2,000 years ago, another man had nearly the identical problem. When the apostle Paul first came to Jerusalem after his conversion to Christianity, he tried to associate with the disciples, but they were all afraid of him and didn’t believe he was a true convert (Acts 9:26) because of his past persecution of Christians. Today, some people feel the same way about Paul. Occasionally, a charge is made that Paul was a Pharisee who tried to corrupt the teachings of Christ and that his writings should have no place in the Bible. This accusation can be put to rest by examining his conversion experience and his adherence to Christ and His teachings.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423538 Feb 19, 2013
Justice wrote:
<quoted text>
The vast majority of people could not read or write until fairly recently in history. This is why bible only theology would be alien to people prior to relatively recently. Widespread literacy in Europe only occured two hundred years ago.
The idea that the apostles could spread their teaching by written word would make no sense back then, when very few people could read.
This is why in the gospels the great commission in its various forms was for the disciples to spread the word of God by preaching and not by distributing a written word. Only two of the eleven disciples wrote gospels. The gospel message was taught primarily by word of mouth and secondly by letter. Bible only Christians I dont think fully understand this point.
There were many letters written. It can take quite a while to read through them all. The Apostles, the church's foundation, had the miraculous ability to speak in languages they'd never learned. This ability along with the other miracles they could work for confirmation was paramount for spreading the gospel. The end of 1 Cor. 13 explains that the putting away of childish things (miracles) would happen, they would cease and people would no longer know "in part" when "that which is perfect (Bible) has come"
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#423539 Feb 19, 2013
Paul’s Persecution of Christianity
Paul first appears in Scripture as a witness to the martyrdom of Stephen:“When they had driven him [Stephen] out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul" (Acts 7:58).“Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death”(Acts 8:1). The words “hearty agreement” indicate active approval, not just passive consent. Why would Paul agree with the murder of Stephen?
Paul the Pharisee would have immediately recognized the statement Stephen made right before his death:“Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God”(Acts 7:56). Stephen’s words repeat the claim Christ made at His trial before the high priest (Mark 14:62). Just as Jesus’ claim resulted in Him being accused of blasphemy, so also these words would bring a murderous response from Saul the Pharisee toward Stephen.
In addition, the term “Son of Man” is filled with significance. It is the last time the term is used in the New Testament and it is the only time in the Gospels and Acts when it is not spoken by Jesus. It shows that Jesus is the Messiah, and it speaks of Christ’s position in the end times as the coming King. It also combines two great Messianic passages: Daniel 7:13-14 and Psalm 110:1. Daniel 7:13-14 emphasizes the universal aspect of Jesus’ rule; that He is not simply a Jewish ruler, but also the Savior of the world. Psalm 110:1 presents the Messiah as being at God’s right hand. Besides stressing power and position, it also shows acceptance.
All these things would have infuriated Saul the Pharisee, who at the time did not possess the true knowledge of Christ. But it would not be long before Saul the Pharisee would become Paul the evangelist for Christ.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#423540 Feb 19, 2013
The Conversion of Paul
In the three versions of Paul’s conversion (Acts 9:1-9, 22:6-11, 26:9-20), there are repeated elements which appear to be central to his mission and commissioning. First, it marked his conversion to Christianity; second, it constituted his call to be a prophet; and third, it served as his commission to be an apostle. These three points may be broken down into the following, more intimate considerations:(1) Paul was specifically chosen, set aside, and prepared by the Lord for the work that he would do; (2) Paul was sent as a witness to not just the Jews, but the Gentiles as well; (3) Paul’s evangelistic mission would encounter rejection and require suffering; (4) Paul would bring light to people who were born into and currently lived in darkness; (5) Paul would preach repentance was required prior to a person’s acceptance into the Christian faith; (6) Paul’s witness would be grounded in space-time history and be based on his Damascus Road experience—what he had personally seen and heard in a real location that would be known to all who lived in Damascus.
Before Gamaliel’s pupil came to a proper assessment of the ministry entrusted to him by God and the death of Jesus, a revolution had to take place in his life and thought. Paul would later say that he was “apprehended” by Jesus (Philippians 3:12) on the road to Damascus, a term that means to make something one’s own or gain control of someone through pursuit. In Acts 9, we clearly see miracles on display in Paul’s conversion, the point of which were to make clear that God is in control and directing all the events, so that Paul will undertake certain tasks God has in mind, something the former Saul would never have had any intention of doing.
Although there are many observations that can be made about Paul’s Damascus Road conversion, there are two key items of interest. First is the fact that Paul’s life would become centered on Christ after his experience. After his encounter with Jesus, Paul’s understanding of the Messiah had been revolutionized, and it was not long before he is proclaiming,“He [Jesus] is the Son of God”(Acts 9:20).
Second, we note that in Paul’s conversion there are no positive antecedents or precursory events that led him from being a zealous opponent to a fervent proponent of Christ. One minute Paul had been an enemy of Jesus, and the next he had become a captive to the Christ he had once persecuted. Paul says,“By the grace of God, I am what I am”(1 Corinthians 15:10), indicating he was transformed by God, became truly spiritual, and he was one whom Christ possessed and was now a Christ-bearer himself.
After the Damascus experience, Paul first went to Arabia, but whether he actually began his missionary work there is unknown. What is more likely is that he earnestly desired a time of quiet recollection. Then after a short stay in Jerusalem, he worked as a missionary in Syria and Cilicia (that is for the most part in Antioch on the Orontes and in his native city of Tarsus) and after that in company with Barnabas in Cyprus, in Pamphylia, Pisidia, and Lycaonia.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423541 Feb 19, 2013
Justice wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been to a Pentecostal service where they have a stage and a band. It is very centered around the music. I think its called entertainment worship, centered around rock and roll. Dancing away to rock music, guitars drums and rock music. I realise they want to bring in young people, but am not sure that this is the best way to do it. Strikes me a in some way sacrilegious and lacking in respect. Cant quite put my finger on why, but it creeped me out. Maybe it works for some people, but I had a difficult time relating to it.
When I've gone to funerals in a building with a big pipe organ I've noticed I cannot hear my own singing over the huge sound of the machine and I can't hear anyone else's singing either.

I enjoy contemporary Christian music and I listen to it fairly often, and the words do teach the listener. But, there may be something wrong if I need the attraction of a free concert in order to go to church. Plus, if I want to go tent camping with friends over the weekend I don't have to tote a pipe organ or band in order to worship God on Sunday morning. ;)

We're finding music in worship isn't the bring everyone together solution. Lots of divisiveness in the denominational world about what type of music they like for their worship, whether to use drums or even just sticking to a piano only. Many have gone to two worship services because of the disagreement over the types of music and songs.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#423542 Feb 19, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Morning, "Sadan" you are an early riser to I see!
It is another snowing day in the great white Northern part of Canada, the good news is that it has warmed up quite a bit, it's only -4 warming up to -1 balmy weather.
Kids have had so many snow days, the teachers didn't need to go on strike. Snow shoes, ski-doo's, and snowmobles is the normal things to drive up here this time of year.
The snow sounds fun!

I'm sporting a true redneck, as I spent the entire day outside yesterday doing outdoor home improvement projects. Should've worn sunscreen! I'm not sure what the temp was but I wore a T-shirt comfortably all day.

Never been to northern Canada. An hour and a half north of Toronto is as far up as I've traveled. Pretty farms up that way though with very rich deep black soil. Black squirrels too - strange looking to Alabamians.
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#423543 Feb 19, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:14 Per your second to last sentence.
"Sadan, is there anything new under the sun.

Since the Bible really does not say much at all about music ministers, it is difficult to arrive at an explicitly biblical position on women music ministers / worship leaders. After the exodus, Miriam functioned in at least one instance as somewhat of a worship leader (Exodus 15:20-21). At the Tabernacle, male Levites seem to be the ones who led in worship (Numbers 8:25-26; 1 Chronicles 9:33). In Judges 5, Deborah and Barak led the Israelites in a song. Second Samuel 19:35 and Second Chronicles 35:25 mention “singing men and women”(see also Ecclesiastes 2:8).

David appointed men from among the Levites (1 Chronicles 15:16-24), who were skilled singers and used brass cymbals, harps, trumpets, and other instruments to accompany the singing. First Chronicles 5:12-13 gives a description of the Levites who led the music at the dedication of Solomon's temple, and they were all men. In the days of the rebuilding of the Temple, the sons of the Levites were appointed to lead the music in the Temple service (Ezra 3:10; Nehemiah 12:24). Psalm 68:25 says, "The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels." The women were participating in, but not leading, the worship.

The New Testament contains no specific instructions or examples of how worship was, or should be, practiced in the Christian church. The New Testament nowhere speaks positively or negatively regarding female music ministers / worship leaders. Some point to 1 Timothy 2:12, that a woman is not to teach or take authority over a man, as a prohibition against women leading men in worship. However, this text is better understood as focusing on the pastoral role of shepherding/teaching than on other forms of leadership. Further, it is questionable whether leading worship involves any “authority” that would violate 1 Timothy 2:12. In what sense does a worship leader have authority over the worshippers? Could a woman lead with an instrument, but just not with her voice? Does not a woman playing piano/organ in some sense result in her “leading” the worship?

Generally speaking, it would seem that with the consistent pattern of male leadership in the church, it would be best for men to serve in the role of worship leader / music minister. At the same time, there is nothing explicit in Scripture that would forbid women from serving in the role. Many women are undeniably very gifted/skilled in worship, whether by voice or instrument. These gifts most definitely should not be ignored or neglected:“addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart”(Ephesians 5:19 ESV).
gotquestions.org
LTM

Fort Frances, Canada

#423544 Feb 19, 2013
God and Music
God and the Arts, Part Three

By Kevin Stone

Thanks ... to Whom?

In their 1977 song “Thank You for the Music,” the Swedish group ABBA express their gratitude for all things musical. The lyrics, which address an unnamed Giver of Music, acknowledge that music is a gift that brings joy, and that, at the core, we are musical creatures.“What would life be?” the song asks.“Without a song or a dance, what are we?”

The song then raises some good questions concerning the origin of music:“I've often wondered, how did it all start?/ Who found out that nothing can capture a heart / Like a melody can?” Lead vocalist Agnetha Fältskog gives a decidedly ambiguous answer:“Well, whoever it was, I'm a fan.” The mysterious Muse is appreciated, but unknown.

Johann Sebastian Bach would have given the question “Who created music?” a very different answer. Bach once said,“I play the notes as they are written but it is God who makes the music.” No uncertainty there. No vague equivocations. The Giver of Music is God. At the beginning and end of each piece of sacred music he composed, Bach wrote the letters “S.D.G.” an abbreviation of Soli Deo gloria (“glory to God alone”). Bach’s dedication of each song was a simple acknowledgment of his view of the music’s source.

From Heaven with Love

Both Bach and ABBA agree that music is a joyful thing. Both used music to communicate to the world. A key difference between them, besides the instruments they played, is their view of the origin of music. Bach saw music as a personal gift from the Creator of the universe. ABBA was curious enough to ask the question “who?” but then shrugged and concluded that it didn’t really matter.

So, where does music come from? Biblically speaking, Bach was right. His assessment of music’s origin was the same as David’s, who said,“He has put a new song in my mouth”(Psalm 40:3). David sang, but it was God who made the music.

Music is a creation of God, a gift that He has bestowed upon humanity. Music was present at the creation of the world, when “the morning stars sang together”(Job 38:7). The Bible is full of songs. Whole books are dedicated to preserving the Spirit-inspired songs of God’s people (Psalms, Song of Solomon). Many of the prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Habakkuk, wrote songs as part of their oracles.

The inescapable conclusion is that God is a musical God, and He has made us musical creatures. Our ability to produce, understand, and enjoy music is evidence of God’s image in us. Jesus sang with His disciples (Mark 14:26); God is depicted as singing for joy over His people (Zephaniah 3:17); when the Spirit fills a person, He brings a song with Him (Ephesians 5:18-19; Colossians 3:16).

Many musicians practice their art without ever giving conscious tribute to the God who made music in the first place. Some of them, like ABBA, seem to be aware that music does not originate with them, but they carry on in happy ignorance of the divine Source of their gift. It is the Christian musician who knows the Giver of Music and willingly becomes an earthly sounding board to amplify the music of heaven.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#423545 Feb 19, 2013
Justice wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been to a Pentecostal service where they have a stage and a band. It is very centered around the music. I think its called entertainment worship, centered around rock and roll. Dancing away to rock music, guitars drums and rock music. I realise they want to bring in young people, but am not sure that this is the best way to do it. Strikes me a in some way sacrilegious and lacking in respect. Cant quite put my finger on why, but it creeped me out. Maybe it works for some people, but I had a difficult time relating to it.
False teaching...
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#423546 Feb 19, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
When I've gone to funerals in a building with a big pipe organ I've noticed I cannot hear my own singing over the huge sound of the machine and I can't hear anyone else's singing either.
I enjoy contemporary Christian music and I listen to it fairly often, and the words do teach the listener. But, there may be something wrong if I need the attraction of a free concert in order to go to church. Plus, if I want to go tent camping with friends over the weekend I don't have to tote a pipe organ or band in order to worship God on Sunday morning. ;)
We're finding music in worship isn't the bring everyone together solution. Lots of divisiveness in the denominational world about what type of music they like for their worship, whether to use drums or even just sticking to a piano only. Many have gone to two worship services because of the disagreement over the types of music and songs.
God wants everything to come from our hearts....
Clay

Chicago, IL

#423547 Feb 19, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure why he would either, but worship is to please Him. Worship is not intended for our entertainment or pleasure. As soon as I find a NT example of instruments (other than the one in us that God created) being used in worship, I will avoid their use. No one has ever shown me how it would be sinful for me to not use one for worship.
Better safe than sorry.
Wait a second. You're demanding that God reveal to you in the NT, an example of a musical instrument being played at worship, then you'll accept playing and creating music for him?

How about just using His gift of logic?
Clay

Chicago, IL

#423548 Feb 19, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 7:14 Per your second to last sentence.
Matthew 7:14

Narrow is the gate.'

I'm not sure I why you would sling this one at me. It has nothing to do with anything I said.

Saban, to use the Holy Scriptures like that is a sin. You guy throw these verses around like snowballs.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#423549 Feb 19, 2013
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
-
-
<quoted text>
-
SNACK TIME?
-
au contraire - The partaking of the bread and the wine is a serious celebration and not to be taken lightly.
Well, not very serious. You reduce it to bread and wine when Christ in John 6 said clearly that we are to partake of His Body and Blood.
Your rejection of Him in this regard renders it a mid-meeting snack, or represents you being "in communion" with ..... bread.

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