Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422343
Feb 13, 2013
 
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
As I'm sure you're aware (but probably convinced yourself otherwise) that Pauls letter to Timothy was telling him that scripture is profitable for teaching...
The scripture Paul was referring to would be the Hebrew Books the Apostles considered scripture. It would not have been his letter Timothy was reading. Nor would it have been future letters or Johns Revelation - which came at a later date.
Even so, Paul did NOT say scripture is the ONLY thing. You guys said this 1600 yrs later.
In fact Paul says the exact opposite in his letter to the Thessalonians "Hold steadfast to your traditions, taught to you by word of mouth AND letter" 2Thess 2:15
Any mention of scripture in the New Testament by the Apostles is always referring to the OT.
Does 1 Cor. 15 make your last sentence false? Does this scripture stand with your or against you?

"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

????

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Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422344
Feb 13, 2013
 
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
King James Bible (
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
The enemies of Christ would be thought desirous to know their duty, when really they hoped that which soever side he took of the question, they might find occasion to accuse him. Nothing is more likely to insnare the followers of Christ, than bringing them to meddle with disputes about worldly politics. Jesus avoided the snare, by referring to the submission they had already made as a nation; and all that heard him, marvelled at the great wisdom of his answer. Many will praise the words of a sermon, who will not be commanded by the doctrines of it.
Just out of curiosity LTM - do you know what this passage means? If so, please post your explanation.

"And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."

Thanks for responding.

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Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422345
Feb 13, 2013
 
7th Day Catholic Rocks wrote:
<quoted text>
John 14
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Hi 7th Day - your point is?

The discussion is about "Paul", not "John".

Please try to stay focussed.

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Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422346
Feb 13, 2013
 
7th Day Catholic Rocks wrote:
<quoted text>
John 14
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Do you find it odd that you only accept a portion of what Jesus taught?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422347
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah those guys are really 'out there.'
Far out there.
Say, I just remembered conversing with a member of your church last year. He was on Topix (a different thread) all the time and then disappeared. Prior to him leaving, we combed over every inch of Catholicism. It was cool and respectful. I always wondered if he converted to the Catholic Church. Seriously.
Anyway, you alluded to something I remember him talking about. And that's playing music in Church. I find this rather puzzling. How is it we are not allowed to use our talents to create beautiful music for God and use during worship?
Just curious.
Pssst....Clay, I'm just one guy.

And no, I am not far out there, but you do find it difficult that I believe in all of what Jesus taught, whereas, you don't.

IMO - you are not "far out there", but "lacking the understanding of what Jesus taught".

Why don't you believe Jesus?
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

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#422348
Feb 13, 2013
 

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LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
You read the bible but you don't know it. HOJO , satan knows the bible word for word. He has blinded you from the truth.
Or else you would not be in the catholic church , you are believing a pagan doctrine, an ancient religion .
Jesus has drawn a line in the sand alos and it starts at the cross, and the temple was torn in two from top to bottom,
WRONG as usual LTM which is no surprise to ANY of us Catholics who know the TRUTH of the Bible and Apostolic Church History. Jesus first"drew a line in the sand" in Matt 16:13-21 when IN HIS OWN STATED WORDS, He established, formed and initiated His One True Apostolic Catholic Church, it ended at the Cross and began again with the Resurrection. Your distorted and bogus Protestant "personal opinionated (half-truth, half-heresy) Christianity, has never, nor WILL EVER, change the TRUTH that has existed for over 2000 years. This constant bible only (merry-go-round) of Protestant "made up" hear-say bible history of myths and legends has been around since the Reformation, all of which have ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS of biblical or historical truth to back up ANYTHING that it teaches.....42,000+ Protestant denominations that are ALL Contradicting,inconsistent,and conflicting with each other,--- ALL spinning "around in circles" in a "hodge-podge" of confusion, chaos and deceit!! Go argue and debate with your other 42,000 "mish-mash" of self-interpreting bible verse "cherry pickers" of the scriptures. For us Catholics, there is NOTHING to dicuss, NOTHING to argue about and NOTHING to debate! Historical and biblically PROOF has been confirmed over and over again for over 2000 years, that Jesus Christ DID IN FACT established His One True Universal-Catholic Church. Heretics, hypocrits, bigots, liars and deceiving preachers and ministers have "CONE AND GONE" for over 2000 years------YET----the Church (HAS) in the past, IS NOW in the present and WILL CONTINUE, in the future to LIVE ON!!!--because Jesus said it would!!!
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#422349
Feb 13, 2013
 

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concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
None of the books not written where from Paul, and yet the all Early Church Father's who knew the Apostles consider them Scripture we know this from their writings.
What writings of Paul were Lost, curricular reasoning on your part as if you knew they would not be lost.
What writings of Paul did not make the cut? Your listseems well not existent.
Peter Clearly, with out doubt equates All Paul's letters as Scripture.
The question if you were on the ball and knew your stuff would have been HOW do I know 2 Peter is scripture do I have do everything for you? if so I will wind up debating myself. Come on you need to take it up a level if you want to play with the big boys
Cor 4 :16 "and when this letter is read before you, have it also read in the Church in Laodiceans. And you yourself read the one from Laodicea"

Pssst my bible doesn't have Paul's letter to the Laodiceans. Does yours?

You're a joke.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422350
Feb 13, 2013
 

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preston wrote:
<quoted text>yeah, I will get to that. howev er I will tell you this. I dont like acoward hat when proven he is wrong, then diverts like you ahve done twice now. first you intorduced "strange fire" when there was no talk about that. now when i showed you that the [gopher wood] was not a cypress, you switch again.
so now Acts does NOT AGREE WITH YOUR FALSE THEOLOGY. Peter told them to repent,a word that you keep forgetting for some reason.lol
so what does the bible say, He preached to them, and they accepted the word of God(not Peters)and belIEved it(that saved them) and THEN THEY WERE BAPTISED."FOR IT IS WRITTEN, HOW SHALL THEY BE SAVED EXCEPT THEY HEAR AND HOW SHALL THEY HEAR, EXCEPT IT BE PREACHED".
they were Saved before they got Baptised by water.lol
UNLIKE WHAT YOUR FALSE TEACHERS HAVE TOLD YOU ABOUT THESE VERSES,
now you know the rest of the story.
dont be like a liar and try to deceive and deflect. it shows a cowardiced like approach to the Biblical truths.
Sure they had to repent, but if they were save when they repented why does the verse read:

38 Peter replied,“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Could they have been added to their number without baptism?

Weren't you the person I asked to find me an example of a conversion just like yours in scripture? If it wasn't you, still, can you do it? Should be easy, shouldn't it!
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

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#422351
Feb 13, 2013
 

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New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>

Why don't you believe Jesus?
We, as Catholics do believe Jesus--but "more important" we believe (What HE Said)--in Matthew 16:13-21 regarding His One (AND ONLY) True (Universal-Catholic) Church and in John 6:47-59 regarding His TRUE BODY AND TRUE BLOOD --"in the Eucharist"---The bigger question for you New Age-- Why don't you believe the (spoken, stated and expressed words) of Jesus --in the Gospels?????????
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422352
Feb 13, 2013
 

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preston wrote:
<quoted text>lol, Jesus didnt need to be Baptsied, He did that so John would know that the Messiah had really come. hhe thought so but that Baptism showed him 4 sure.
that Baptism shows everyone(well except cults) that Baptism doesnt save, Jesus wasnt lost.lol
you come on here after studying false thelogy and think that you can teach people on here. I have forgot more Bible than you will ever know.
any person should have done some research before proclaiming that [gopher wood] was a cypress tree which is not native to that region of the world.lol
Show me where I have typed cypress.
Let's see your research on this little project....
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422353
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Face it. You lost. You've failed to convince me or anyone that sola scripture is what Christ and His Apostles taught. All you shown is that you're able to manipulate the verses.
Don't get mad at me because you're embarrassed by trying to be an intellectual expert on Christianity. You came across as smug, and now you look stupid.
Below are some interesting quotes from the following:
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/S...

Martin Luther told secular and Church officials at the Diet of Worms: "Unless I am convinced by scripture and plain reason -- I cannot accept the authority of popes and councils because they have contradicted each other -- my conscience is captive to the Word of God."

Luther was right about popes and councils contradicting each other. They did -- often -- as history records. Not only did they contradict their teaching, accepting at times what had been condemned as heresy at others -- they had, on occasions, as may as three men claiming to be the Pope at the same time. Who rightfully had "apostolic succession?" Who determined it? The answer comes: the Roman Catholic Church. Does this should like circular reasoning? Carefully study the history of the Roman Catholic Church and its claim to "apostolic succession" and it is as appalling as it is ludicrous. Time and again it was based upon political expediency, avarice, power hunger and every manipulation to which man is capable of descending.

What the Roman Catholic Church really wants is to be the sole interpreter of Scripture.
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#422354
Feb 13, 2013
 

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concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
None of the books not written where from Paul, and yet the all Early Church Father's who knew the Apostles consider them Scripture we know this from their writings.
What writings of Paul were Lost, curricular reasoning on your part as if you knew they would not be lost.
What writings of Paul did not make the cut? Your listseems well not existent.
Peter Clearly, with out doubt equates All Paul's letters as Scripture.
The question if you were on the ball and knew your stuff would have been HOW do I know 2 Peter is scripture do I have do everything for you? if so I will wind up debating myself. Come on you need to take it up a level if you want to play with the big boys
But you know what is really sad?(besides the fact you're very smug and reflect nothing of the Christ you claim to follow) is you set me up with this question above knowing I would respond with scripture which shows Paul had other writings.
That's ok though, I already know your response... There was no letter To the Laodiceans. It was something else Blah Blah.
Bible verse warfare may be something you guys enjoy. But frankly, it makes me sick watching you all pick apart our sacred scripture. You have no clue what the Holy Bible is. It doesn't belong to you. You're not an authority son, so don't boast to loudly, as your words will stand before God someday.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422355
Feb 13, 2013
 

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New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
No you didn't. You adverted the question altogether.
Again - I haven't said "Paul" contradicted Jesus, I asked, "why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus?", considering the Bible is littered with his letters, but very few of the teachings by Jesus.
That is the question I initially asked. You are the one who diverted with implying that "Paul" and Jesus haven't any contradictions.
Please stay focussed.
I'm sorry if I'm frustrating you.

OK, I don't think Paul was more enlightened than Jesus, but I can't say he was less so either if his writing was inspired.

(Is that still ducking your question?)
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422356
Feb 13, 2013
 

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New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Also - if I don't make sense to you, it is because you are probably so wrapped up in what men have given you to believe, you probably never researched Christianity before accepting what those men gave you to believe.
If you had done the research, you wouldn't be wondering what I am talking about.
You did research the religion before joining, right?
Or more aptly, you were probably indoctrinated with it through your childhood, and told to never question, huh?
You've been duped.
I didn't "join" a religion. I became a member of the church.

And, yes, I tried my hardest to disprove and discredit it before I eventually submitted to it. I became convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt after I failed miserably in proving it wrong.

I've not yet heard a question here that i didn't first ask and tried to prove correct.- with the exception of some of Preston's. Is he and that Australian Truth guy one in the same?
Clay

Chicago, IL

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#422357
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Below are some interesting quotes from the following:
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/S...
Martin Luther told secular and Church officials at the Diet of Worms: "Unless I am convinced by scripture and plain reason -- I cannot accept the authority of popes and councils because they have contradicted each other -- my conscience is captive to the Word of God."
Luther was right about popes and councils contradicting each other. They did -- often -- as history records. Not only did they contradict their teaching, accepting at times what had been condemned as heresy at others -- they had, on occasions, as may as three men claiming to be the Pope at the same time. Who rightfully had "apostolic succession?" Who determined it? The answer comes: the Roman Catholic Church. Does this should like circular reasoning? Carefully study the history of the Roman Catholic Church and its claim to "apostolic succession" and it is as appalling as it is ludicrous. Time and again it was based upon political expediency, avarice, power hunger and every manipulation to which man is capable of descending.
What the Roman Catholic Church really wants is to be the sole interpreter of Scripture.
I'm shocked that you and everyone else would still hold true to sola scripture. Its evident on this thread that its a complete disaster. I mean, do you think we're that stupid? You guys are arguing tooth and nail about serious Christian matters. Hello? Some of you - obviously - are dead wrong.

So who is it? I'll sit back n let the fireworks begin.

Its you against that smug fella who's concerned about Egypt and Preston - who was visited by Jesus a few yrs ago, and his grandpa talked with the Apostle Paul in Heaven... Plus there are some SDAs and a Jehovah witness, and a gnostic.

Keep in mind, their all using sola scripture - supposedly guided to truth by the Holy Spirit.

Let me get a beer and watch.
socci

Wheatland, MO

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#422358
Feb 13, 2013
 

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hojo wrote:
Catholics who know the TRUTH of the Bible and Apostolic Church History. Jesus first "drew a line in the sand" in Matt 16:13-21 when IN HIS OWN STATED WORDS, He established, formed and initiated His One True Apostolic Catholic Church, it ended at the Cross and began again with the Resurrection.

That's not what that passage says at all, and why you did not even quote it.

Christians are the church or bride of Christ. Your body is the temple that houses the Holy Spirit, if you will reject your pope and follow only Jesus.

This and other passages the RC has twisted in gnostic fashion to support the waffer god and 'virgin mary' beliefs, nuns or vestal virgins -- all preexisting Catholicism and Christianity to Roman practices adopted into a pagan mesh we know as Roman Catholicism.

Clay

Chicago, IL

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#422359
Feb 13, 2013
 

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concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
What a straw man Clay show you where they say the exact words you dream up in the moment.
2 Timothy clearly says scripture is sufficient and doess so with synonymous words.
Just like the doctrine of the Trinity, So by your retarded logic above we must believe you don't believe in the Trinity as no where in the Bible does any Apostle say God is a Trinity 3 persons one God.
You are posting like a 3 year old, If you continue your retarded illogical posts I will post through and not to you anymore. I hope you smarter than this last post.
"if you continue posting your retarded illogical posts"

Wow, you and Preston are on the same team (I think) you boast of having the Holy Spirit, yet he calls everyone names and you call me retarded??

Btw, I have an autistic son. Someone called him retarded once. It hurt him and my family pretty bad.
socci

Wheatland, MO

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The Roman Church claims to found itself upon ONE verse in the Bible:

Mt 16:18 "And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Nowhere does it say there would be a Catholic Church.

Jesus is the rock the church / Christianity is founded upon.

Mk 12:10 "And have you not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:"

Jesus is also the stone in the OT book of Daniel, symbolized here the Second Coming..

Dn 2:34 You saw till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image... and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth... For as much as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands,

Stone = Jesus

At the time of the Apostles MANY churches were founded. Paul founded the churches at Rome.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: 10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come to you. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

more Bible truth here..

www.youtube.com/playlist...

Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#422362
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm shocked that you and everyone else would still hold true to sola scripture. Its evident on this thread that its a complete disaster. I mean, do you think we're that stupid? You guys are arguing tooth and nail about serious Christian matters. Hello? Some of you - obviously - are dead wrong.
So who is it? I'll sit back n let the fireworks begin.
Its you against that smug fella who's concerned about Egypt and Preston - who was visited by Jesus a few yrs ago, and his grandpa talked with the Apostle Paul in Heaven... Plus there are some SDAs and a Jehovah witness, and a gnostic.
Keep in mind, their all using sola scripture - supposedly guided to truth by the Holy Spirit.
Let me get a beer and watch.
Martin Luther was pointing out inconsistencies between scripture and the RCC's popes and councils too.

"Martin Luther told secular and Church officials at the Diet of Worms: "Unless I am convinced by scripture and plain reason -- I cannot accept the authority of popes and councils because they have contradicted each other -- my conscience is captive to the Word of God.""

What are your thoughts about Martin Luther? Did he have a legitimate point?

Or, is the other statement correct that the RCC wishes to be the sole interpreter of scripture?

Would the current RCC acting as the sole interpreter of scripture be in violation of Paul's words to the Galatians concerning... if he or anyone else including an angel taught them differently...?
Saban fan

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#422363
Feb 13, 2013
 

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socci wrote:
The Roman Church claims to found itself upon ONE verse in the Bible:
Mt 16:18 "And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Nowhere does it say there would be a Catholic Church.
Jesus is the rock the church / Christianity is founded upon.
Mk 12:10 "And have you not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:"
Jesus is also the stone in the OT book of Daniel, symbolized here the Second Coming..
Dn 2:34 You saw till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image... and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth... For as much as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands,
Stone = Jesus
At the time of the Apostles MANY churches were founded. Paul founded the churches at Rome.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: 10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come to you. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
more Bible truth here..
www.youtube.com/playlist...
They miss the point of Matt. 16:18 all together:

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied,“Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked.“Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered,“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied,“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

The subject is Peter's confession that Jesus IS the Messiah, the son of the living God. The confession is the Rock being discussed.

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