Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[Clay]

Robert Dye wrote:

<quoted text>
Okay.
I don't see a follow-up question there, so I will take it that you are satisfied with tje answer, even though you do not agree with the reasoning.
Rob

Good morning Rob, I'm going to take your advice and leave this thread, maybe today..

You answered Mr Sabans question about "call no man father" with a great link. It should end the argument. It should bridge the two sides. A clear understanding should have been made. But it didn't.
I did the same thing with another poster named Guest. I went through a lot and showed her links to explain it. Clearly, calling a Priest Father or a minister, Reverend, is not violating scripture.

Yet, they isolate that one line (call no man father) and manipulate it against us.. I just saw Guest do it again last night.
You don't have to answer this, but how can they be forgiven for such blatant ignorance?

[Robert Dye]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
I'll admit I'm new. Explain what you mean by start a new thread - I obviously misunderstood.

You are posting to a thread that is supposedly about whether the CC is the One True Church, or even if the Pope really said that.

It has deteriorated into a general Catholic-bashing thread.

There are other threads on the Topix Catholic Forum, and many other forums on the Topix site in genaral.

What is being suggested is that you start a new thread more specifically devoted to the subject you wish to address.

For example, the question about priests being called "father" could have had its own thread, rather than being in one that involves "You Catholics worship Mary." "Do not." "Do so."

That way, all of the posts in the thread (if peope follow proper nettiquette, which they don't) could be on the topic, and people not interested in other topics would not have to sift.

This thread, due to the misleading and inflammatory title, has become this horrible hydra-badt, and will probable never die, as there will always be new suckers pulled in by the "bait" of its misleading title.

Rob

[Dan]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Do we not have to go sit in a booth and talk to our Holy Father the priest? I'm confused again. Based on Biblical teaching a Christian is a priest and a saint, but look at what you have to do to be called a priest or a saint in Catholicism.

The bible lays out auricular confession and also lays out succession of ministerial authority.

[Dan]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Do we not have to go sit in a booth and talk to our Holy Father the priest? I'm confused again. Based on Biblical teaching a Christian is a priest and a saint, but look at what you have to do to be called a priest or a saint in Catholicism.

The Church also recognizes saints; it doesn't create them.

The thread beat this one to death a while ago.

[Dan]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Good advice. Those men are all wrapped up in pretty packages! It highlights and flaunts their elite stature.

I think you meant "status" vs. "stature"-they aren't taller than anyone else, I don't think.

[Dan]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Good morning Rob, I'm going to take your advice and leave this thread, maybe today..
You answered Mr Sabans question about "call no man father" with a great link. It should end the argument. It should bridge the two sides. A clear understanding should have been made. But it didn't.
I did the same thing with another poster named Guest. I went through a lot and showed her links to explain it. Clearly, calling a Priest Father or a minister, Reverend, is not violating scripture.
Yet, they isolate that one line (call no man father) and manipulate it against us.. I just saw Guest do it again last night.
You don't have to answer this, but how can they be forgiven for such blatant ignorance?

If they admit to it (being willfully ignorant), then their argument goes away.

They want to keep their prejudices intact. Thinking is antithetical to such beliefs.

The conundrum is that while none of these folks have the slightest intellectual curiosity to actually review the Catholic teachings and beliefs they pillory before they pass their judgement, they will presume to proffer their personal interpretation of the Writ of Holy Scripture as authoritative simply on their say-so.

Very frustrating.

[Saban fan]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh yeah, could you also show me from scripture how you're an authority on scripture?

What exactly would it matter if the scripture I use, the Bible, doesn't carry credibility with you?

[Saban fan]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't you think you ought to show - from scripture - that scripture is the only thing revealed about Our Lords ministry, BEFORE you go on rant about "Bible this.. Bible that"?
Just show me where Christ commanded His Apostles write 27 books.
I already know you can't. So hopefully you'll see that you're sinning by adding something to Jesus Christ that is not part of His will.

If not the Bible, what credible source in your opinion could show me His Will?

[Dan]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
What exactly would it matter if the scripture I use, the Bible, doesn't carry credibility with you?

Since you have no idea of what Clay's (nor anyone else's) view of the Bible is or isn't, why not simply answer the question?

[Saban fan]

Robert Dye wrote:

<quoted text>
You are posting to a thread that is supposedly about whether the CC is the One True Church, or even if the Pope really said that.
It has deteriorated into a general Catholic-bashing thread.
There are other threads on the Topix Catholic Forum, and many other forums on the Topix site in genaral.
What is being suggested is that you start a new thread more specifically devoted to the subject you wish to address.
For example, the question about priests being called "father" could have had its own thread, rather than being in one that involves "You Catholics worship Mary." "Do not." "Do so."
That way, all of the posts in the thread (if peope follow proper nettiquette, which they don't) could be on the topic, and people not interested in other topics would not have to sift.
This thread, due to the misleading and inflammatory title, has become this horrible hydra-badt, and will probable never die, as there will always be new suckers pulled in by the "bait" of its misleading title.
Rob

Your making my point for me. I also thought he was asking me to leave with that question and start an entire new discussion.

[Clay]

concerned in Eygpt wrote:

<quoted text>
I am not leading anyone for the lies of the RCC the HOLY Spirit is.
To bow and prostate before an image or person is an act of worship.
To pray to someone who is not here, to call upon their name is an act of worship.
Acts of worship were defined biblically before Christianity existed before the first coming.
The RCC sect does not get to redefine worship some 2500 years or so after the fact so you can pretend you don't worship graven images.
Again when Jesus and the Apostles taught how to pray it is clearly demonstrated in the NT how we are too pray NOT one example of them praying to Saints or Christians in the here after why does ROME go beyond that which is written and in fact contradict OT and NT teachings and teach RC's sinful Idol worship.
To deny this is to deny the Sun rises in the EAST. It is that obvious and the fact RC's ignore this shows their real love is not of God and Spiritual things but of Men and Carnal things.
I am amazed If I took 2 dollars on the sly from your wallet you'd call it stealing.
If a Priest told you steal two dollars from me and to give it to the poor you would say its a tithe LOL and even as laughable as that sounds that truly is how pathetic you sound defending RC's bowing before statues made in someones imagination of what they think they look liked and bowing to them and calling on them to intercede for them and to ask them to forgive their sins in the hour of their death etc. etc. etc.
These are ACTS OF WORSHIP and to worship anyone or thing other than God is Idolatry according to the WORD of GOD.
You are with out excuse repent while you have time.
Truth Matters.

One of us is in serious violation of the ten commandments.
If you're right, then I'm worshiping a different god or statues; idols; I'm bowing down before something I consider a god; Mary is being worshiped by me...

If I'm right, then you are falsely accusing me and a billion other Catholics and Orthodox of doing something we are not. You are steering people away from the Church by convincing them they worship false gods; depriving them of the Eucharist forever. You'd be bearing false witness.

Just so you know, I'm Catholic and I know who I worship. I will have no problem looking Christ in the eye someday. Will you?

[Robert Dye]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Good morning Rob, I'm going to take your advice and leave this thread, maybe today..
You answered Mr Sabans question about "call no man father" with a great link. It should end the argument. It should bridge the two sides. A clear understanding should have been made. But it didn't.
I did the same thing with another poster named Guest. I went through a lot and showed her links to explain it. Clearly, calling a Priest Father or a minister, Reverend, is not violating scripture.
Yet, they isolate that one line (call no man father) and manipulate it against us.. I just saw Guest do it again last night.
You don't have to answer this, but how can they be forgiven for such blatant ignorance?

You just dorgive, Clay, just as Jesus said to turn the other cheek.

He didn't say you had to come up with a good reason they had for slapping you, or even that they had to ask forgiveness.

A big part of forgiveness is simply not letting an offense prompt a reaction, especially not a reaction of anger. This is not easy, especially when someone attacks our relationship with God, something so dear to us.

I think it best not to argue. There is little point. Most of the posters here don't want to know what the Church teaches, or try to understand why. They just want to "prove" that they are "right," and that anyone who does not see things as they do is "wrong," or even "damned."

I *think* I understand it ... it has to do with a fear that one's relationship with God is not perfect in all respects (which is of course what we are called to). If (when!) it is found to NOT be perfect, there is this fear of damnation, and entertaining ANY possibility that one might not be correct on ALL points puts some people on the edge of this spiritual cliff.

So people dig in, and argue, and condemn.

For the Catholic, we make an examination of conscience, and can repent, and turn toward a newer, deeper relationship with God through prayer and the sacraments. We can confess our sins to God in the presence of another human being, and receive counsel, advice, prayer, blessing, and the pronouncement of forgiveness in the Name of the Lord.

You have to remember, non-Catholics have never heard a voice telling them, specifically, "Your sins are forgiven. Go in Peace." They have to tell THEMSELVES this, and I suspect that, in their heart of hearts, they don't REALLY trust this (I would not fully trust it, either!), because they have set themselves in the place of Jesus, without anyone to help them see if they might be kidding themselves in their relationship with God.

It happens.

In all my years of priesthood, I have only seen it happen a handful of times, but it HAPPENS. Human beings are capable of doing this.

Most of the time, the presence of another human being in unnecessary, because most people who are trtying to turn toward God are people of good will, and they are not deceiving themselves, or letting themselves be deceived. But because we are CAPABLE of letting this happen, there has to be that little, nagging voice, if we do not have a brother in faith to help us.

I think that is a big part of what goes on here, in truth. Many of the anti-Catholic posters are terrified that the have gotten some point wrong in their relationship with God, but they could never admit it, because if they had, how would they ever really know they were forgiven?

Sure, they could go get out their idol - er - Bible, and consult it as a oracle, but this has got to be ultimately unsatisfying.

Try to turn from reaction to a response with love and patience.

My advice is once you see that someone is wanting to argue, drop them. Let them argue with someone else, and YOU look for someone with whom you can share faith in Christ.

These may not all be Catholics. You may find many Protestants of good will, people I am convinced would be declared saints, had they been Catholics. They exist.

But you won't find many here, sadly.

Rob

[Saban fan]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you meant "status" vs. "stature"-they aren't taller than anyone else, I don't think.

Have you seen the height of those hats?

All of the mingling they do with the common people brings a tear to my eye.

[confrinting with the word]

Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Tony

~~~

QUESTION

Just how many fathers can one have?

I have only one

What do you Constantians do ...with the words of Jesus..

He named only one FATHER and He gave His location.

He said...

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

==> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

With all the (so called holy fathers) that you Constantians claim...which one is actually your dad?

Of whose seed are you?

The Bible says..

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


just how man corruptible men (Men that will decay in the grave) do you claim to be your fathers...

YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HAD MANIFOLD HUSBANDS...

FOR YOU TO HAVE AS MANY FATHERS AS YOU CLAIM...

Jesus said

Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

If you actually have all the Fathers that you claim...

Your mother must have committed adultery with manifold individuals.

[Robert Dye]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Your making my point for me. I also thought he was asking me to leave with that question and start an entire new discussion.

If you say so.

I don't see how that is asking you to "leave."

It's rather more simply a desire to have some kind of good order in discussion, which some people see as having value.

Rob

[Dan]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
One of us is in serious violation of the ten commandments.
If you're right, then I'm worshiping a different god or statues; idols; I'm bowing down before something I consider a god; Mary is being worshiped by me...
If I'm right, then you are falsely accusing me and a billion other Catholics and Orthodox of doing something we are not. You are steering people away from the Church by convincing them they worship false gods; depriving them of the Eucharist forever. You'd be bearing false witness.
Just so you know, I'm Catholic and I know who I worship. I will have no problem looking Christ in the eye someday. Will you?

Clay-

Rebuttal for these comments is simplicity itself.

Simply cite the online Catechism and ask the poster to locate where Catholics are instructed accord divine worship to any save for God.

[Dan]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you seen the height of those hats?
All of the mingling they do with the common people brings a tear to my eye.

The pope meets and sees many common people.

It IS heartwarming, I'll agree.

[Dan]

confrinting with the word wrote:

Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Tony
~~~
QUESTION
Just how many fathers can one have?
I have only one
What do you Constantians do ...with the words of Jesus..
He named only one FATHER and He gave His location.
He said...
Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
==> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
With all the (so called holy fathers) that you Constantians claim...which one is actually your dad?
Of whose seed are you?
The Bible says..
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
just how man corruptible men (Men that will decay in the grave) do you claim to be your fathers...
YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HAD MANIFOLD HUSBANDS...
FOR YOU TO HAVE AS MANY FATHERS AS YOU CLAIM...
Jesus said
Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
If you actually have all the Fathers that you claim...
Your mother must have committed adultery with manifold individuals.

This is what you post? To a person who says "God Bless You"?

Scripture coupled with a "your mama" swipe?

Bitter old fool.

[Clay]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
What exactly would it matter if the scripture I use, the Bible, doesn't carry credibility with you?

It depends how you read it. If you're reading it thru a 21st century lense then you got problems.

I'm sticking with the Church that established the books as Holy Scripture. Face it, you have no way of knowing those books in your Bible are valid. They do not come with the title "word of God".
Paul didn't start out his letter to Timothy "hello, this letter I'm writing is the word of God"

An Earthly authority determined that letter to be canonical and included it in the New Testament Books. This didn't happen until the 4 and 5th century.

[confrinting with the word]

confrinting with the word wrote:

Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Tony
~~~
QUESTION
Just how many fathers can one have?
I have only one
What do you Constantians do ...with the words of Jesus..
He named only one FATHER and He gave His location.
He said...
Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
==> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
With all the (so called holy fathers) that you Constantians claim...which one is actually your dad?
Of whose seed are you?
The Bible says..
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
just how man corruptible men (Men that will decay in the grave) do you claim to be your fathers...
YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HAD MANIFOLD HUSBANDS...
FOR YOU TO HAVE AS MANY FATHERS AS YOU CLAIM...
Jesus said
Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
If you actually have all the Fathers that you claim...
Your mother must have committed adultery with manifold individuals.

~~~

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
==> Our -->Father<-- which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

-->FATHER<--- DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN MATTHEW 6:9

G3962
&#960;&#945;&#964; &#951;&#769;&#961;
pate&#772;r
pat-ayr'
Apparently a primary word; a “father”(literally or figuratively, near or more remote):- father, parent.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for

--> I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. <--

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear/HEAR with him.