Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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Dan

Omaha, NE

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#421896
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
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What exactly would it matter if the scripture I use, the Bible, doesn't carry credibility with you?
Since you have no idea of what Clay's (nor anyone else's) view of the Bible is or isn't, why not simply answer the question?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421897
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
You are posting to a thread that is supposedly about whether the CC is the One True Church, or even if the Pope really said that.
It has deteriorated into a general Catholic-bashing thread.
There are other threads on the Topix Catholic Forum, and many other forums on the Topix site in genaral.
What is being suggested is that you start a new thread more specifically devoted to the subject you wish to address.
For example, the question about priests being called "father" could have had its own thread, rather than being in one that involves "You Catholics worship Mary." "Do not." "Do so."
That way, all of the posts in the thread (if peope follow proper nettiquette, which they don't) could be on the topic, and people not interested in other topics would not have to sift.
This thread, due to the misleading and inflammatory title, has become this horrible hydra-badt, and will probable never die, as there will always be new suckers pulled in by the "bait" of its misleading title.
Rob
Your making my point for me. I also thought he was asking me to leave with that question and start an entire new discussion.
Clay

United States

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#421898
Feb 12, 2013
 
concerned in Eygpt wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not leading anyone for the lies of the RCC the HOLY Spirit is.
To bow and prostate before an image or person is an act of worship.
To pray to someone who is not here, to call upon their name is an act of worship.
Acts of worship were defined biblically before Christianity existed before the first coming.
The RCC sect does not get to redefine worship some 2500 years or so after the fact so you can pretend you don't worship graven images.
Again when Jesus and the Apostles taught how to pray it is clearly demonstrated in the NT how we are too pray NOT one example of them praying to Saints or Christians in the here after why does ROME go beyond that which is written and in fact contradict OT and NT teachings and teach RC's sinful Idol worship.
To deny this is to deny the Sun rises in the EAST. It is that obvious and the fact RC's ignore this shows their real love is not of God and Spiritual things but of Men and Carnal things.
I am amazed If I took 2 dollars on the sly from your wallet you'd call it stealing.
If a Priest told you steal two dollars from me and to give it to the poor you would say its a tithe LOL and even as laughable as that sounds that truly is how pathetic you sound defending RC's bowing before statues made in someones imagination of what they think they look liked and bowing to them and calling on them to intercede for them and to ask them to forgive their sins in the hour of their death etc. etc. etc.
These are ACTS OF WORSHIP and to worship anyone or thing other than God is Idolatry according to the WORD of GOD.
You are with out excuse repent while you have time.
Truth Matters.
One of us is in serious violation of the ten commandments.
If you're right, then I'm worshiping a different god or statues; idols; I'm bowing down before something I consider a god; Mary is being worshiped by me...

If I'm right, then you are falsely accusing me and a billion other Catholics and Orthodox of doing something we are not. You are steering people away from the Church by convincing them they worship false gods; depriving them of the Eucharist forever. You'd be bearing false witness.

Just so you know, I'm Catholic and I know who I worship. I will have no problem looking Christ in the eye someday. Will you?
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

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#421899
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning Rob, I'm going to take your advice and leave this thread, maybe today..
You answered Mr Sabans question about "call no man father" with a great link. It should end the argument. It should bridge the two sides. A clear understanding should have been made. But it didn't.
I did the same thing with another poster named Guest. I went through a lot and showed her links to explain it. Clearly, calling a Priest Father or a minister, Reverend, is not violating scripture.
Yet, they isolate that one line (call no man father) and manipulate it against us.. I just saw Guest do it again last night.
You don't have to answer this, but how can they be forgiven for such blatant ignorance?
You just dorgive, Clay, just as Jesus said to turn the other cheek.

He didn't say you had to come up with a good reason they had for slapping you, or even that they had to ask forgiveness.

A big part of forgiveness is simply not letting an offense prompt a reaction, especially not a reaction of anger. This is not easy, especially when someone attacks our relationship with God, something so dear to us.

I think it best not to argue. There is little point. Most of the posters here don't want to know what the Church teaches, or try to understand why. They just want to "prove" that they are "right," and that anyone who does not see things as they do is "wrong," or even "damned."

I *think* I understand it ... it has to do with a fear that one's relationship with God is not perfect in all respects (which is of course what we are called to). If (when!) it is found to NOT be perfect, there is this fear of damnation, and entertaining ANY possibility that one might not be correct on ALL points puts some people on the edge of this spiritual cliff.

So people dig in, and argue, and condemn.

For the Catholic, we make an examination of conscience, and can repent, and turn toward a newer, deeper relationship with God through prayer and the sacraments. We can confess our sins to God in the presence of another human being, and receive counsel, advice, prayer, blessing, and the pronouncement of forgiveness in the Name of the Lord.

You have to remember, non-Catholics have never heard a voice telling them, specifically, "Your sins are forgiven. Go in Peace." They have to tell THEMSELVES this, and I suspect that, in their heart of hearts, they don't REALLY trust this (I would not fully trust it, either!), because they have set themselves in the place of Jesus, without anyone to help them see if they might be kidding themselves in their relationship with God.

It happens.

In all my years of priesthood, I have only seen it happen a handful of times, but it HAPPENS. Human beings are capable of doing this.

Most of the time, the presence of another human being in unnecessary, because most people who are trtying to turn toward God are people of good will, and they are not deceiving themselves, or letting themselves be deceived. But because we are CAPABLE of letting this happen, there has to be that little, nagging voice, if we do not have a brother in faith to help us.

I think that is a big part of what goes on here, in truth. Many of the anti-Catholic posters are terrified that the have gotten some point wrong in their relationship with God, but they could never admit it, because if they had, how would they ever really know they were forgiven?

Sure, they could go get out their idol - er - Bible, and consult it as a oracle, but this has got to be ultimately unsatisfying.

Try to turn from reaction to a response with love and patience.

My advice is once you see that someone is wanting to argue, drop them. Let them argue with someone else, and YOU look for someone with whom you can share faith in Christ.

These may not all be Catholics. You may find many Protestants of good will, people I am convinced would be declared saints, had they been Catholics. They exist.

But you won't find many here, sadly.

Rob
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421900
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you meant "status" vs. "stature"-they aren't taller than anyone else, I don't think.
Have you seen the height of those hats?

All of the mingling they do with the common people brings a tear to my eye.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#421901
Feb 12, 2013
 
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Tony

~~~

QUESTION

Just how many fathers can one have?

I have only one

What do you Constantians do ...with the words of Jesus..

He named only one FATHER and He gave His location.

He said...

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

==> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

With all the (so called holy fathers) that you Constantians claim...which one is actually your dad?

Of whose seed are you?

The Bible says..

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


just how man corruptible men (Men that will decay in the grave) do you claim to be your fathers...

YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HAD MANIFOLD HUSBANDS...

FOR YOU TO HAVE AS MANY FATHERS AS YOU CLAIM...

Jesus said

Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

If you actually have all the Fathers that you claim...

Your mother must have committed adultery with manifold individuals.
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

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#421902
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Your making my point for me. I also thought he was asking me to leave with that question and start an entire new discussion.
If you say so.

I don't see how that is asking you to "leave."

It's rather more simply a desire to have some kind of good order in discussion, which some people see as having value.

Rob
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#421903
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
One of us is in serious violation of the ten commandments.
If you're right, then I'm worshiping a different god or statues; idols; I'm bowing down before something I consider a god; Mary is being worshiped by me...
If I'm right, then you are falsely accusing me and a billion other Catholics and Orthodox of doing something we are not. You are steering people away from the Church by convincing them they worship false gods; depriving them of the Eucharist forever. You'd be bearing false witness.
Just so you know, I'm Catholic and I know who I worship. I will have no problem looking Christ in the eye someday. Will you?
Clay-

Rebuttal for these comments is simplicity itself.

Simply cite the online Catechism and ask the poster to locate where Catholics are instructed accord divine worship to any save for God.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#421904
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen the height of those hats?
All of the mingling they do with the common people brings a tear to my eye.
The pope meets and sees many common people.

It IS heartwarming, I'll agree.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#421905
Feb 12, 2013
 

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confrinting with the word wrote:
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Tony
~~~
QUESTION
Just how many fathers can one have?
I have only one
What do you Constantians do ...with the words of Jesus..
He named only one FATHER and He gave His location.
He said...
Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
==> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
With all the (so called holy fathers) that you Constantians claim...which one is actually your dad?
Of whose seed are you?
The Bible says..
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
just how man corruptible men (Men that will decay in the grave) do you claim to be your fathers...
YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HAD MANIFOLD HUSBANDS...
FOR YOU TO HAVE AS MANY FATHERS AS YOU CLAIM...
Jesus said
Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
If you actually have all the Fathers that you claim...
Your mother must have committed adultery with manifold individuals.
This is what you post? To a person who says "God Bless You"?

Scripture coupled with a "your mama" swipe?

Bitter old fool.
Clay

United States

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#421906
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
What exactly would it matter if the scripture I use, the Bible, doesn't carry credibility with you?
It depends how you read it. If you're reading it thru a 21st century lense then you got problems.

I'm sticking with the Church that established the books as Holy Scripture. Face it, you have no way of knowing those books in your Bible are valid. They do not come with the title "word of God".
Paul didn't start out his letter to Timothy "hello, this letter I'm writing is the word of God"

An Earthly authority determined that letter to be canonical and included it in the New Testament Books. This didn't happen until the 4 and 5th century.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#421907
Feb 12, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Tony
~~~
QUESTION
Just how many fathers can one have?
I have only one
What do you Constantians do ...with the words of Jesus..
He named only one FATHER and He gave His location.
He said...
Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
==> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
With all the (so called holy fathers) that you Constantians claim...which one is actually your dad?
Of whose seed are you?
The Bible says..
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
just how man corruptible men (Men that will decay in the grave) do you claim to be your fathers...
YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HAD MANIFOLD HUSBANDS...
FOR YOU TO HAVE AS MANY FATHERS AS YOU CLAIM...
Jesus said
Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
If you actually have all the Fathers that you claim...
Your mother must have committed adultery with manifold individuals.
~~~

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
==> Our -->Father<-- which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

-->FATHER<--- DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN MATTHEW 6:9

G3962
&#960;&#945;&#964; &#951;&#769;&#961;
pate&#772;r
pat-ayr'
Apparently a primary word; a “father”(literally or figuratively, near or more remote):- father, parent.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for

--> I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. <--

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear/HEAR with him.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#421908
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what you post? To a person who says "God Bless You"?
Scripture coupled with a "your mama" swipe?
Bitter old fool.
~~~

The truth will stand when God judges mankind.

CALL ME WHAT YOU WILL ...IT DOES NOT OFFEND ME...

I AM WHOM GOD SAYS I AM...and you carry no weight with Him.

~~~~~~

Mat_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

~~~

HOW MANY FATHERS DO YOU HAVE?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421909
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible lays out auricular confession and also lays out succession of ministerial authority.


I understand the importance of confession before men of Jesus Christ being the Son of God, and confessing our sins to one another, but maybe you can enlighten me about auricular confession.

While at it, the scriptural authority for Papal Infallibility, infant baptism, baptism by sprinkling, instrumental music for public worship would be helpful as well.

See, I believe the apostasy led TO all of these things FROM the church of Christ.

Paul warned "in latter times some will depart from the faith." A Catholic definition of what a 'departure from the faith' might look like, if indeed the Catholic Church itself is not a departure from the faith would also be helpful.

I'm also curious as to whether men like John Wycliffe are held to a high stature in the history of the Catholic church? Was Martin Luther? was John Calvin? These men among others were attempting to reform the Apostate church. Are they esteemed in high regard or not?

While they all differed sharply on matters of faith and doctrine, they were united in what I think is a noble idea of reformation. Unfortunately, this is how so many denominations were born. Therefore another question comes to mind; are those denominations the fault of these men or the fault of the Apostate church?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421910
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
It depends how you read it. If you're reading it thru a 21st century lense then you got problems.
I'm sticking with the Church that established the books as Holy Scripture. Face it, you have no way of knowing those books in your Bible are valid. They do not come with the title "word of God".
Paul didn't start out his letter to Timothy "hello, this letter I'm writing is the word of God"
An Earthly authority determined that letter to be canonical and included it in the New Testament Books. This didn't happen until the 4 and 5th century.
Surely God couldn't have worked through men, His creation, to place His will before them in a manner his creation could understand.

Its not like he hadn't done it before with the Old Testament writings obviously being used by the people in the NT.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#421911
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand the importance of confession before men of Jesus Christ being the Son of God, and confessing our sins to one another, but maybe you can enlighten me about auricular confession.
While at it, the scriptural authority for Papal Infallibility, infant baptism, baptism by sprinkling, instrumental music for public worship would be helpful as well.
See, I believe the apostasy led TO all of these things FROM the church of Christ.
Paul warned "in latter times some will depart from the faith." A Catholic definition of what a 'departure from the faith' might look like, if indeed the Catholic Church itself is not a departure from the faith would also be helpful.
I'm also curious as to whether men like John Wycliffe are held to a high stature in the history of the Catholic church? Was Martin Luther? was John Calvin? These men among others were attempting to reform the Apostate church. Are they esteemed in high regard or not?
While they all differed sharply on matters of faith and doctrine, they were united in what I think is a noble idea of reformation. Unfortunately, this is how so many denominations were born. Therefore another question comes to mind; are those denominations the fault of these men or the fault of the Apostate church?
That was sort of a shotgun blast. Can you get me like one or two questions at a time?

Auricular confession simply means that which can be heard, so I think we understand each other here.

Again, if we can focus on one or two questions, we can dialogue a bit more effectively than playing "52 pickup" with the 20 or so things you mentioned.

What's first?

Dan

Omaha, NE

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#421912
Feb 12, 2013
 

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confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
The truth will stand when God judges mankind.
CALL ME WHAT YOU WILL ...IT DOES NOT OFFEND ME...
I AM WHOM GOD SAYS I AM...and you carry no weight with Him.
~~~~~~
Mat_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
~~~
HOW MANY FATHERS DO YOU HAVE?
You should be offended by your own post.

Incredibly mean spirited.
MICHAEL

Hamilton, Canada

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#421913
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have a corroborating source?
Sipe eats off of criticizing the Church.
Click on that website I posted. Click on OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS. or CANON LAWS read them. They each specifically pertain to abuse. You can GOOGLE each of them using the word abuse and see what comes up.

Most of their contents are not in english but one example dated .....1568 Pope Pius V abuse......GOOGLE IT...its the only time in the churches past history where a pope was actually trying to get rid of abusive clergy.

http://patrickjwall.wordpress.com/2010/05/01/...

Richard Sipe Father Tom Doyle and Patrick Wall wrote a book a few years back explaining all the papal documents and canon laws of the church that particularily pertain to clergy abuse.

I am not dumping on the church but everyone should be aware.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#421914
Feb 12, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The pope meets and sees many common people.
It IS heartwarming, I'll agree.
Its too bad we live in a world where he feels the need to be behind bulletproof glass.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#421915
Feb 12, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Surely God couldn't have worked through men, His creation, to place His will before them in a manner his creation could understand.
Its not like he hadn't done it before with the Old Testament writings obviously being used by the people in the NT.
Did you mean to say

..."God could have..." ?

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