Oh yeah, could you also show me from scripture how you're an authority on scripture?<quoted text>
Do we not have to go sit in a booth and talk to our Holy Father the priest? I'm confused again. Based on Biblical teaching a Christian is a priest and a saint, but look at what you have to do to be called a priest or a saint in Catholicism.
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#421887 Feb 12, 2013
#421888 Feb 12, 2013
Good morning Rob, I'm going to take your advice and leave this thread, maybe today..
You answered Mr Sabans question about "call no man father" with a great link. It should end the argument. It should bridge the two sides. A clear understanding should have been made. But it didn't.
I did the same thing with another poster named Guest. I went through a lot and showed her links to explain it. Clearly, calling a Priest Father or a minister, Reverend, is not violating scripture.
Yet, they isolate that one line (call no man father) and manipulate it against us.. I just saw Guest do it again last night.
You don't have to answer this, but how can they be forgiven for such blatant ignorance?
#421889 Feb 12, 2013
You are posting to a thread that is supposedly about whether the CC is the One True Church, or even if the Pope really said that.
It has deteriorated into a general Catholic-bashing thread.
There are other threads on the Topix Catholic Forum, and many other forums on the Topix site in genaral.
What is being suggested is that you start a new thread more specifically devoted to the subject you wish to address.
For example, the question about priests being called "father" could have had its own thread, rather than being in one that involves "You Catholics worship Mary." "Do not." "Do so."
That way, all of the posts in the thread (if peope follow proper nettiquette, which they don't) could be on the topic, and people not interested in other topics would not have to sift.
This thread, due to the misleading and inflammatory title, has become this horrible hydra-badt, and will probable never die, as there will always be new suckers pulled in by the "bait" of its misleading title.
#421890 Feb 12, 2013
The bible lays out auricular confession and also lays out succession of ministerial authority.
#421891 Feb 12, 2013
The Church also recognizes saints; it doesn't create them.
The thread beat this one to death a while ago.
#421892 Feb 12, 2013
I think you meant "status" vs. "stature"-they aren't taller than anyone else, I don't think.
#421893 Feb 12, 2013
If they admit to it (being willfully ignorant), then their argument goes away.
They want to keep their prejudices intact. Thinking is antithetical to such beliefs.
The conundrum is that while none of these folks have the slightest intellectual curiosity to actually review the Catholic teachings and beliefs they pillory before they pass their judgement, they will presume to proffer their personal interpretation of the Writ of Holy Scripture as authoritative simply on their say-so.
#421894 Feb 12, 2013
What exactly would it matter if the scripture I use, the Bible, doesn't carry credibility with you?
#421895 Feb 12, 2013
If not the Bible, what credible source in your opinion could show me His Will?
#421896 Feb 12, 2013
Since you have no idea of what Clay's (nor anyone else's) view of the Bible is or isn't, why not simply answer the question?
#421897 Feb 12, 2013
Your making my point for me. I also thought he was asking me to leave with that question and start an entire new discussion.
#421898 Feb 12, 2013
One of us is in serious violation of the ten commandments.
If you're right, then I'm worshiping a different god or statues; idols; I'm bowing down before something I consider a god; Mary is being worshiped by me...
If I'm right, then you are falsely accusing me and a billion other Catholics and Orthodox of doing something we are not. You are steering people away from the Church by convincing them they worship false gods; depriving them of the Eucharist forever. You'd be bearing false witness.
Just so you know, I'm Catholic and I know who I worship. I will have no problem looking Christ in the eye someday. Will you?
#421899 Feb 12, 2013
You just dorgive, Clay, just as Jesus said to turn the other cheek.
He didn't say you had to come up with a good reason they had for slapping you, or even that they had to ask forgiveness.
A big part of forgiveness is simply not letting an offense prompt a reaction, especially not a reaction of anger. This is not easy, especially when someone attacks our relationship with God, something so dear to us.
I think it best not to argue. There is little point. Most of the posters here don't want to know what the Church teaches, or try to understand why. They just want to "prove" that they are "right," and that anyone who does not see things as they do is "wrong," or even "damned."
I *think* I understand it ... it has to do with a fear that one's relationship with God is not perfect in all respects (which is of course what we are called to). If (when!) it is found to NOT be perfect, there is this fear of damnation, and entertaining ANY possibility that one might not be correct on ALL points puts some people on the edge of this spiritual cliff.
So people dig in, and argue, and condemn.
For the Catholic, we make an examination of conscience, and can repent, and turn toward a newer, deeper relationship with God through prayer and the sacraments. We can confess our sins to God in the presence of another human being, and receive counsel, advice, prayer, blessing, and the pronouncement of forgiveness in the Name of the Lord.
You have to remember, non-Catholics have never heard a voice telling them, specifically, "Your sins are forgiven. Go in Peace." They have to tell THEMSELVES this, and I suspect that, in their heart of hearts, they don't REALLY trust this (I would not fully trust it, either!), because they have set themselves in the place of Jesus, without anyone to help them see if they might be kidding themselves in their relationship with God.
In all my years of priesthood, I have only seen it happen a handful of times, but it HAPPENS. Human beings are capable of doing this.
Most of the time, the presence of another human being in unnecessary, because most people who are trtying to turn toward God are people of good will, and they are not deceiving themselves, or letting themselves be deceived. But because we are CAPABLE of letting this happen, there has to be that little, nagging voice, if we do not have a brother in faith to help us.
I think that is a big part of what goes on here, in truth. Many of the anti-Catholic posters are terrified that the have gotten some point wrong in their relationship with God, but they could never admit it, because if they had, how would they ever really know they were forgiven?
Sure, they could go get out their idol - er - Bible, and consult it as a oracle, but this has got to be ultimately unsatisfying.
Try to turn from reaction to a response with love and patience.
My advice is once you see that someone is wanting to argue, drop them. Let them argue with someone else, and YOU look for someone with whom you can share faith in Christ.
These may not all be Catholics. You may find many Protestants of good will, people I am convinced would be declared saints, had they been Catholics. They exist.
But you won't find many here, sadly.
#421900 Feb 12, 2013
Have you seen the height of those hats?
All of the mingling they do with the common people brings a tear to my eye.
“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”
Since: Jun 10
"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"
#421901 Feb 12, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Just how many fathers can one have?
I have only one
What do you Constantians do ...with the words of Jesus..
He named only one FATHER and He gave His location.
Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
==> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
With all the (so called holy fathers) that you Constantians claim...which one is actually your dad?
Of whose seed are you?
The Bible says..
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
just how man corruptible men (Men that will decay in the grave) do you claim to be your fathers...
YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HAD MANIFOLD HUSBANDS...
FOR YOU TO HAVE AS MANY FATHERS AS YOU CLAIM...
Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
If you actually have all the Fathers that you claim...
Your mother must have committed adultery with manifold individuals.
#421902 Feb 12, 2013
If you say so.
I don't see how that is asking you to "leave."
It's rather more simply a desire to have some kind of good order in discussion, which some people see as having value.
#421903 Feb 12, 2013
Rebuttal for these comments is simplicity itself.
Simply cite the online Catechism and ask the poster to locate where Catholics are instructed accord divine worship to any save for God.
#421904 Feb 12, 2013
The pope meets and sees many common people.
It IS heartwarming, I'll agree.
#421905 Feb 12, 2013
This is what you post? To a person who says "God Bless You"?
Scripture coupled with a "your mama" swipe?
Bitter old fool.
#421906 Feb 12, 2013
It depends how you read it. If you're reading it thru a 21st century lense then you got problems.
I'm sticking with the Church that established the books as Holy Scripture. Face it, you have no way of knowing those books in your Bible are valid. They do not come with the title "word of God".
Paul didn't start out his letter to Timothy "hello, this letter I'm writing is the word of God"
An Earthly authority determined that letter to be canonical and included it in the New Testament Books. This didn't happen until the 4 and 5th century.
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