Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 543,253
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#421780 Feb 11, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Stephen Ray is not the final word on this one Dust Storm.I venture to say that one day when God judges all things,the RCC will have to answer for giving such a title to a man,especially when in the line of Popes,there were men bearing that title and bringing open and secret shame to the whole body of Christ.
Being obstinate about giving a title to a man,does not put the fear of God into me,nor should it have given that Phillipino cause to back down.Stephen Ray had the last word there in such a gathering,but he will stand before the GOD who SEES and give account to the false teaching he gave to 2000 plus people.
Holy Father is given to the One and Only Holy Father,GOD who is omnipotent,and omnipresent.We do not need a world leader who is called Holy Father,as though he were the only intercessor between God and Man.That is another way to look at such a title.Vicar of Christ,the Middle man as it were between the Living God and man on earth.The Father,Christ His Son,and the Holy Spirit are more than capable of running the Church themselves.we all are wanting when we assume that mere men should be given the opportunity to be the Middle man with lofty titles,that will be a judgment in the end!
LOL...This is your idea of being open minded. You are such a phony. I couldnt stand you from the beginning because I saw right through you. Pope Benedict is a very humble man and he doesnt think he is God the Father but you can add that to your list of things you have you have never understood about the church that you are an expert on. Honestly I cant imagine a Catholic more clueless than you on the faith. Did you respond to his statement? No, you just rattled off a bunch of hostility that has nothing to do with your projections. Look up what the Jewish Encyclopedia says about binding and loosing. I have no intention of dealing with a windbag like you. Maybe you can mock your dead brother a little more being such a great Christian as you are it always seems to make you feel better. After all its Catholics who pick on the Protestants as you say you are all just balls of joy as can be seen. lol
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#421781 Feb 11, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The feeling I have after reading the link is similar to the feeling I had after I received my first paycheck this year. I had felt cautiously assured that I would see no tax increase based on my salary level but after the first of the year the amount on my check decreased. After receiving the smaller check I once again hear that I've not experienced a tax increase.
Your feelings and projections are not a serious response or intellectual rebuttal to the points made. Pray and reflect on it.
guest

United States

#421782 Feb 11, 2013
Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
Rather than type all the arguuments and counter-arguments, here is a quick link for you.
Once you have taken a look, any question you may still have, or ANY POINT YOU WISH TO DISPUTE (assuming good faith, of course, which you have to admit is generosity on my part) would be most welcome.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/call-no-man-fa...
The quickest answer in my own words would be that we are not to attribute to ANYONE what we should attribute to God alone.
I have once been called "God," and once "Jesus." Both times, I had a visceral reaction, and made pains to explain to the children who were confused that God is in Heaven, and I am NOT Him.
There ARE those who have taken for themselves what belongs to God. Sun Yung Moon was one, and Jim Jones was another. I am sure they are not unique examples.
I don't really care what people call me. Most adults I encourage to call me by my first name.((My exception to this is in the jail, where I insist on a ritle of respect, because it does not serve the inmates to continue to fail to recognize authority. They need to recognize it, and quickly, or they will have some serious peoblems relatingto the D.O.'s.) My experience with most of my brother priests is the same. It's not a point of Catholic doctrine ... I don't believe it appears ANYWHERE in the CCC, but rather, a title of affection and respect that has grown amongs the people abd their pastors, much like the relationship of Paul and Timothy.
Anti-Catholics seeem to feel they have found the pot of gold in this one. My response is that, if it were essential to the Catholic faith, they WOULD have the pot if gold they so deperately desire.
But if every Catholic stopped using e title "father" tomorrow, the faith of the Church and its Teaching would be completely unaffected.
I consider a difference that makes no diference to be no difference.
YMMV.
Rob
-
Yet another LONG drawn out explanation attempting to convince everyone that Jesus DID NOT *REALLY* MEAN WHAT HE SAID and that it's OK to follow what the Pope said and do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Jesus said.

1) Jesus *SAID* what he said. "CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER."

2) Jesus *MEANT* what he said. "CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER."

Then, of course, there is part of your argument making the point that *IF* the Catholic church stopped this tomorrow *NOTHING* would change in the church. You can publicly make that statement and not be challenged on it, because YOU know the church will not outlaw the use of its title of veneration ... and therefore you can be confident it cannot be tested in the *real* world. So it is nothing more than a transparent argument meant to make parishioners feel good and not look deeper into the Word of God for real answers.

But, yes, I do agree with your statement:

""But if every Catholic stopped using e title "father" tomorrow, the faith of the Church and its Teaching would be completely unaffected.
I consider a difference that makes no diference to be no difference.""

It really makes no difference whether they call you Father or not ... because the Catholic church is SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH that cleaning up that one "little" error will not make any difference at all. It wouldn't even scratch the surface.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#421783 Feb 11, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>here is where HE failed. knowing that soemthing should have been done, and he knew for decades, yet he did nothing.
Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him.

Proverbs 23:9 Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#421784 Feb 11, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The feeling I have after reading the link is similar to the feeling I had after I received my first paycheck this year. I had felt cautiously assured that I would see no tax increase based on my salary level but after the first of the year the amount on my check decreased. After receiving the smaller check I once again hear that I've not experienced a tax increase.
I read the article the priest gave to you,it was very good I thought,and well written.I do not have a real problem with calling father Dye,(father),but that is out of respect for the title given him to be a leader ofa spiritual community.I would rather call him brother so and so.

Nevertheless I always thought it interestin when Jesus told his disciples"That he who does the will of My Father in heaven,is my brother,sister and mother."

Notice he never says in any gospel"that he who does the will of my Father in heaven,is my brother,sister,mother and father." It is my opinion,that Jesus tried to bring home the clear thought that God His Father,and is the only one we as believers should call Father.It is a purpose with the Son to bring beleivers to that ultimate place where only God is their heavenly Father,and to trust Him as their Father no matter what they experience in this world.

Jesus often taught with the point of what was obvious at that moment,and what would be that which was to come in the futre tense of serving and loving the Creator,as Father above all else.

That is why I beleive it is a sin to call the Pope the Holy Father,because it is a detriment to the relationship we are all suppose to have with the only Holy Father,God,The Supreme Being in the Godhead.The whole concept of Father and relationship with Him requires us to forsake man as being our source.God wants to be our only SOURCE.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#421785 Feb 11, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL...This is your idea of being open minded. You are such a phony. I couldnt stand you from the beginning because I saw right through you. Pope Benedict is a very humble man and he doesnt think he is God the Father but you can add that to your list of things you have you have never understood about the church that you are an expert on. Honestly I cant imagine a Catholic more clueless than you on the faith. Did you respond to his statement? No, you just rattled off a bunch of hostility that has nothing to do with your projections. Look up what the Jewish Encyclopedia says about binding and loosing. I have no intention of dealing with a windbag like you. Maybe you can mock your dead brother a little more being such a great Christian as you are it always seems to make you feel better. After all its Catholics who pick on the Protestants as you say you are all just balls of joy as can be seen. lol
Stephen Ray like you,thinks that you have the final word on the subject.Calling your pope the Holy Father diminishes and takes away from the only Source,for humans to put their trust in.You can throw you little digs at me,and call me names,and consider me a waste of your time.But the truth of the matter is that the Bible is the final authority on matters that concern God,His Son and the Holy Spirit.

In the Bible the Source of all truth and trust is God the Father,and He alone earns and is the Holy Father,not a sinful man.Do you call Jesus the Holy Father? Jesus told us how to pray to His Father,I would assume from the Scriptures that Jesus wanted us to know only ONE Holy and Heavenly Father,far be it that a m a n should be given His title.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#421786 Feb 11, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>I read the article the priest gave to you,it was very good I thought,and well written.I do not have a real problem with calling father Dye,(father),but that is out of respect for the title given him to be a leader ofa spiritual community.I would rather call him brother so and so.
Nevertheless I always thought it interestin when Jesus told his disciples"That he who does the will of My Father in heaven,is my brother,sister and mother."
Notice he never says in any gospel"that he who does the will of my Father in heaven,is my brother,sister,mother and father." It is my opinion,that Jesus tried to bring home the clear thought that God His Father,and is the only one we as believers should call Father.It is a purpose with the Son to bring beleivers to that ultimate place where only God is their heavenly Father,and to trust Him as their Father no matter what they experience in this world.
Jesus often taught with the point of what was obvious at that moment,and what would be that which was to come in the futre tense of serving and loving the Creator,as Father above all else.
That is why I beleive it is a sin to call the Pope the Holy Father,because it is a detriment to the relationship we are all suppose to have with the only Holy Father,God,The Supreme Being in the Godhead.The whole concept of Father and relationship with Him requires us to forsake man as being our source.God wants to be our only SOURCE.
Jn 8:56 Your Father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

Jesus called Abraham Father. Too bad you werent there to correct him. You ignored the biblical texts given and ignore what Jesus was saying. Your only source is your personal opinion of that which you choose to believe.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#421787 Feb 11, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's a new year, and as much as I love the gentle and brilliant Pope Benedict, I understand why he's ready to pass the keys, so we will have a new Holy Father. I think of the scene in Star Wars where Obi Wan is battling the dark lord Vader, glances over and sees Luke is going to escape in order to save the rebellion and decides his job is done. lol.
Anyway, I'm moving over to the Catholic Answers forum, just signed up today. Hope to see you there!
God Bless you.
Tony
Great place for you tony,you can expound all you want,the non-Catholics who raise any type of questions and respond with any intelligence are thrown off as quickly as they joined.You will be preaching to the choir.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#421789 Feb 11, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Stephen Ray like you,thinks that you have the final word on the subject.Calling your pope the Holy Father diminishes and takes away from the only Source,for humans to put their trust in.You can throw you little digs at me,and call me names,and consider me a waste of your time.But the truth of the matter is that the Bible is the final authority on matters that concern God,His Son and the Holy Spirit.
In the Bible the Source of all truth and trust is God the Father,and He alone earns and is the Holy Father,not a sinful man.Do you call Jesus the Holy Father? Jesus told us how to pray to His Father,I would assume from the Scriptures that Jesus wanted us to know only ONE Holy and Heavenly Father,far be it that a m a n should be given His title.
Nobody believes the Pope is God. No Pope tells anyone to Worship anyone other than God. Try reading the Creed as I know you are the Catholic and Jewish Expert. lol You making things up that have no basis in fact are not truths. The END

Sorry but the Apostles were Holy men. Ye be Holy For I am holy. Saints are Holy. All are sinners. You didnt address his point. Holy does not mean sinless in context. Your projections do not make it mean what you want it to mean out of malice. Call No man Teacher Doctor Dan. lol. Hallmark would be pretty upset if Fathers Day had to be changed to fit your doctrines. Also Jesus should have said Honor thy Father and they Mother was a mistake that Moses chiseled.:0

The bible tells you all and that is why you people are all over the place each one having more authority than any Pope has ever had as if you are ALL God with your infallible truths.
7th Day Catholic Rocks

Poplar Bluff, MO

#421790 Feb 11, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Jn 8:56 Your Father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
Jesus called Abraham Father. Too bad you werent there to correct him. You ignored the biblical texts given and ignore what Jesus was saying. Your only source is your personal opinion of that which you choose to believe.
Great Grandfather like 28 generations back or something along that count and yes they referred to the Grandfather or uncle simply as Father.

One is not t call a rabbi or minister father however.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#421791 Feb 11, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
:)
I'm being asked to leave? You just answered my questions for me...
If you can see words in the following that says you are being asked to leave, that will explain why you don't understand squat about anything!!!!

Quote: 726

I ignored them because they are not on this thread...if you want to...start a new thread...will be most happy to discuss your questions...
Pad

Rockford, IL

#421792 Feb 11, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Jn 8:56 Your Father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
Jesus called Abraham Father. Too bad you werent there to correct him. You ignored the biblical texts given and ignore what Jesus was saying. Your only source is your personal opinion of that which you choose to believe.
That is a big difference from calling a man Holy Father,or Pontificus Maximus.Holy Pontiff,and whatever title of a supreme nature.God the Father is our only Source,and no man on this planet can take the place of J E S U S who alone stands as the Redeemer,and Intercessor to the Father.I don't have to correct Jesus,and never have I ever felt that I dsagreed with Him.

He did not call Peter any of the titles the RCC gives the Pope,Peter was an Apostle,which as you know means Shepherd.

The Bible is clear on the relationship Jesus had with His disciples,and especially Peter.So there is nothing that even relates to the Pontifical Office of the Papacy in that relationship Jesus had with Peter and the other Apostles.He said they would be lambs amongst wolves,they would be hated as He was hated.

Abraham was the father of the Hebrew Nation,and Jesus declares His own relationship to that as a Jew.Sorry Dust Storm your reasoning falls short,because frankly you have bought into the idea that man's tradition comes first than the Word of God comes second,oh because Jesus didn't tell us to write a book,or that He did nto establish a book but a church.

The Jews had the Torah,and the Prophets,and the Psalms,and the Lord Jesus made it quite obvious through the Holy Spirit that we should have the Gospels,the Epistles and the book of Revelation along with the OLD Covenant of the Torah,Prophets and the Psalms. I think God is telling us somethin,and it is in His W o r d.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#421793 Feb 11, 2013
Don't any Catholics read their pope approved NABre Bible...

Here is what it says about the word "church"...

There are several possibilities for an Aramaic original. Jesus’ church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation. That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

Does anyone see this saying one thing about any Christianity denomination????!!!!!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#421794 Feb 11, 2013
And....evidently no Catholics study their Encyclopedia!!!!

Here is what it says about "church"...

The term church (Anglo-Saxon, cirice, circe; Modern German, Kirche; Swedish, Kyrka) is the name employed in the Teutonic languages to render the Greek ekklesia (ecclesia), the term by which the New Testament writers denote the society founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Does anybody see this talking about any Christian denomination????!!!!
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#421795 Feb 11, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Great place for you tony,you can expound all you want,the non-Catholics who raise any type of questions and respond with any intelligence are thrown off as quickly as they joined.You will be preaching to the choir.
This is Pads way of saying that he was unable to speak with Charity in truth so they threw him off. Your intelligence is very debatable, but you are a huge phony and a deceiver. Honest discussion without projections, theories, slander, unfounded attacks and false teachings and inflammatory spamming full of lies and telling people what they believe as exists in here are your truths. Honest, open, intelligent and respectful disagreements are welcome there.

“YESHUA IS LORD”

Since: Apr 07

GAWGIA (GEORGIA)

#421796 Feb 11, 2013
Question for any of the advanced Bible students here if there be any. Cain slew Abel but was it a sin?

I think I asked this question once before but no one was able to answer.
guest

United States

#421797 Feb 11, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Jn 8:56 Your Father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
Jesus called Abraham Father. Too bad you werent there to correct him. You ignored the biblical texts given and ignore what Jesus was saying. Your only source is your personal opinion of that which you choose to believe.
-
-
Well, Dust storm, taken out of context your Bible quote would seem to make sense.
But as you can see, Jesus was calling Abraham their "father" in a completely different context. He is using the word his accusers used NOT because it was the proper title. His accusers were calling him demon possessed, as well. Jesus honored his Father in the proper way by not seeking glory for himself.

Jesus said, "My Father, whom you claim as your God,..."

Jesus was calling God his Father and letting it be known that these phonies were (falsely) claiming that Christ's Father was their God.

Jesus said, "If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you," ...Dust Storm ... he was calling these men who called Abraham their farther LIARS.

So .. If Jesus was calling them LIARS then doesn't that make them calling Abraham their (spiritual) Father a moot point?
-
And THIS is the point for Catholics. Don't take scripture out of context and you will be more able to learn the TRUTH.
-
-
http://niv.scripturetext.com/john/8.htm
The Claims of Jesus About Himself

48 The Jews answered him,“Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus,“but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

52 At this the Jews exclaimed,“Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied,“If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him,“and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered,“before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#421798 Feb 11, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody believes the Pope is God. No Pope tells anyone to Worship anyone other than God. Try reading the Creed as I know you are the Catholic and Jewish Expert. lol You making things up that have no basis in fact are not truths. The END
Sorry but the Apostles were Holy men. Ye be Holy For I am holy. Saints are Holy. All are sinners. You didnt address his point. Holy does not mean sinless in context. Your projections do not make it mean what you want it to mean out of malice. Call No man Teacher Doctor Dan. lol. Hallmark would be pretty upset if Fathers Day had to be changed to fit your doctrines. Also Jesus should have said Honor thy Father and they Mother was a mistake that Moses chiseled.:0
The bible tells you all and that is why you people are all over the place each one having more authority than any Pope has ever had as if you are ALL God with your infallible truths.
END, and that is what you want me to do,is to end the discussion and humble myself to the Catholic teaching.That would be fine if the Catholic teaching just left things that concern only our Father in heaven to Him and Him alone.No man is worthy of being envisioned as the only Source of life,man needs life,it is not a matter of holiness Dust Storm,it is a matter of who is the Source of that Holiness.

God does not want us to be equal to Him,but to be conduits of His love and holiness,we are such sinful creatures outside of Him who bought us with the great price of His Son.

Just because someone declares a person such and such,does not give them the right to claim solo validity before God.i don't claim that the RCC and the Pope claim that.You claim it in your posts in defence to proclaim your church is the only one.YET at the same time God is doing of His good purpose throughout all of Christianity.You would mock any minister or leader of the denominations who called themselves the Holy Father.

Oh we are suppose to accept that title for the Pope because your church claims it was started at Pentecost?Which it was not,how obvious is that?

It is a matter of conscience as well.How can we as believers call your Pope the Holy Father,when we read in Scripture that God our Father is the only Holy Father? It is only our faith and duty as believers to challenge something so important as to what your Pope is called on a daily basis,and that by your own words have declared that we basically are invalid because we do not accept those teachings,and those titles given to your Pope by men,not God.Good Night!
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#421799 Feb 11, 2013
7th Day Catholic Rocks wrote:
<quoted text>Great Grandfather like 28 generations back or something along that count and yes they referred to the Grandfather or uncle simply as Father.
One is not t call a rabbi or minister father however.
Did you read the article Father Dye posted and the arguments given a billion times on this thread? You say that, but that is not the point Jesus was making and that is not how it was understood. Jesus was not contradicting himself. He was making a point! Something not many of you ever get or do.

Now if you read the article and want to point to the flaw and give us your infallible opinions from the Protestant gallery of endless infallible opinions then do so. I have to go to sleep and I have a big day tomorrow. Regardless, if he or other Catholics wish to waste there time with you then by all means have at it. However just once it would be nice to see if you people are even capable of responding to the argument with something that pertains to the argument given rather than just giving your infallible opinion as the gospel truth according to you.
marge

Ames, IA

#421800 Feb 11, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Stephen Ray is not the final word on this one Dust Storm.I venture to say that one day when God judges all things,the RCC will have to answer for giving such a title to a man,especially when in the line of Popes,there were men bearing that title and bringing open and secret shame to the whole body of Christ.
Being obstinate about giving a title to a man,does not put the fear of God into me,nor should it have given that Phillipino cause to back down.Stephen Ray had the last word there in such a gathering,but he will stand before the GOD who SEES and give account to the false teaching he gave to 2000 plus people.
Holy Father is given to the One and Only Holy Father,GOD who is omnipotent,and omnipresent.We do not need a world leader who is called Holy Father,as though he were the only intercessor between God and Man.That is another way to look at such a title.Vicar of Christ,the Middle man as it were between the Living God and man on earth.The Father,Christ His Son,and the Holy Spirit are more than capable of running the Church themselves.we all are wanting when we assume that mere men should be given the opportunity to be the Middle man with lofty titles,that will be a judgment in the end!
YEP!

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