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#421070 Feb 8, 2013
my tears go now too
when i read all of you
its very hard converted someone
did you say demons is holy ghost
no no no
you are wrong
#421071 Feb 8, 2013
We are coming..........in your dreams..........
Saint Paul, MN
#421072 Feb 8, 2013
Ah, I don't think so Preston. If that post from "concerned" is any indication of anything... Its that of just another ignorant fundie. I'm on the side of truth and that's a great feeling. I won't run or make up a fantasy scenario like you guys.
Again, your whole premise is built on a lie (sola scripture). You're gambling with that? Do you realize how much logic you need to forgo just to believe it? You can't prove from scripture that Christ ever taught it. Yet, we can prove from historic fact that man made it up a few hundred yrs ago!! And you say I'm getting in way over MY head?? Lol.
#421073 Feb 8, 2013
Claypool, We agree with you on the twenty-seven books of the NT.
This is a settled issue, Solo-Scripture, remember?
Saint Paul, MN
#421074 Feb 8, 2013
"you make allot of presumptions in your post that are flat out false"
Oh? The last and most severe persecution of Christians happened 10 yrs before the Edict of Milan legalized Christianity.
Emperor Diocletian on February 23, 303 AD, ordered the newly built Christian Church at Nicodemia be destroyed, and its scriptures burned. The next day (February 24th) he issued an edict ordering the destruction of all Christian scriptures, Liturgical books and places of worship across the entire Roman Empire.
So lets see.... Christian scriptures were probably important to the faithful in 303 AD. No? It could have been in a real sense, part of their Bible. No?
The conspiracy Christian will make themselves believe that the books that did survive, were all that God wanted - so He could later reveal its meanings to the Evangelicals 1500 yrs later I suppose.
#421075 Feb 8, 2013
Robert, I am posting these links in the hope that you will read them carefully for your edification.
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a87.htm Apostolic Succession
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a31.htm The Ministerial Priesthood
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a80.htm The Church always had Monarchal Bishops
#421076 Feb 8, 2013
Confrinting--your mind, heart and soul is so anti-catholic perverted and polluted in the bondage of hostility, that you will "frantically, say or do (anything) in order to attack our Catholic Faith!! What you fail to realize is that "it won't work! NO CATHOLIC---Not one of us---or ANY OF THE 1.168 Billion CATHOLICS around the world are listening to your "trash talking"--phoney history lesson regarding Constantine!!
Manipulating, distorting, mis-interpreting and mis-quoting of the "true meaning" of Gods word, is all that you have "EVER DONE" from the very first day that you came on this forum!..... "EVERY VERSE THAT YOU LIST" is based on one thing, and one thing only!!(Your personal anti-catholic animosity, vengeance and hatred toward Jesus Christ and His One (and only) True Apostolic Catholic Church! THIS IS THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW!! This is the ONLY thing that your bible only Ministry is grounded in!!!! Hate toward other Christians, their personal faith and salvation in Jesus Christ and the Churches they worship in--especially Catholics.
#421077 Feb 8, 2013
cancer line 66
As you created Heaven and Earth
as come will be gone too
in name of Jesus Christ
''kako bilo tako pocelo i tako zavrsilo''=Jesus Christ
Earth swear to Heaven not will be secret.
#421078 Feb 8, 2013
Following are twenty-one considerations which will help the reader scrutinize Luthers doctrine of Sola Scriptura from Biblical, historical and logical bases and which show that it is not in fact a genuine Biblical truth, but rather a man-made doctrine.
See Dave Armstrong 100 biblical arguments against sola scripture
See Robert Sungenis Not By Faith Alone
Do you believe that the Gospel of Matthew is the inspired Word of God? Okay. If so, how do you know that it is? How do you know that Matthew authored it? Does Matthew's Gospel claim to be inspired? Does it even claim that Matthew authored it? Does any other book of Scripture tell us how Matthew's Gospel came about? Okay, then. Why do you accept that it's inspired? Why do you accept that it's authored by Matthew and/or comes from him?
#421080 Feb 8, 2013
#421081 Feb 9, 2013
I really wonder why Catholics are so sure that their organization is the only one?Protestants may be in serious decline,but the church that is immersed in the Spirit still lives and the TESTIMONY is alive and well.
The whole Body of Christ is suffering from the assault daily of being in this W O R L D.God did not give to the church a new fresh look at the world,but a focus of what He wants for the Church in regards to Christ.
The World never ceases to disvalue the role of the Church in relationship to the souls of men and women in need of Salvation.All need to be saved,and only JESUS can complete Himself through His people."Many are called,few are chosen."It is not God's plan to only use one facet of the Church,but to proclaim liberty to captives by means of the whole Body.
If each segment of the Church begins to fall short,it is not because they have a fraction of truth,but because they have allowed their eyes to focus on this World rather than the Master.It is not a matter of what we joined,but Whom we joined into.The Lord Jesus gives the Roll Call,and if we respond,than we are chosen to continue to make a difference in this present World.
I find partiality to church preference ill-sought when people look to that preference rather than to the Master Himself.We can exalt our church all we want,but it takes Faith to live out what JESUS said"He who does the Will of My Father is my brother,sister and mother."
I respect your walk with Christ regardless of your affiliation.It makes no difference to me that you attend a RCCh,but it does make a difference to God if you are listening to His Son.
Protestantism fails for one reason only,not because someone says it is Babel,but rather that it takes its eyes off of the GOAL who is JESUS.
ARE we to think that eventually our church affiliation will make us savvy to the Kingdom of God? If so,than we miss the opportunity to hear His voice rather than to seek to find out the kingdom of God in our church organization. The Church is the bride of Christ,not the Kingdom of God our Father.
It is the Spiritual Manna from Heaven that will keep us going ,not our interpretation of what Communion is or is not.Baptism is for those who repent of their sins and follow Christ,can a n infant rightly make that decision? Of course not.We are not to seek initiation,but to understand that In Christ we have our being and are s a v e d,baptism spiritually brings us to acknowledge His Burial.
But who can argue these points? You believe that your church which teaches us those things we ultimately reject like infant baptism,is the only true church.Our response to the Word of God is to:believe,repent and be baptized.So much more to face as mature people the truth:To make that decision!
#421082 Feb 9, 2013
It would be so nice to know exactly what is wrong with being born again,(believing,repenting,and being baptized),knowing that Christ is our all-sufficiency? Having a TESTIMONY of what Christ has done in our lives,being in fellowship with many believers who have similar testimonies and to pray with them,experience the Holy Spirit in worship,and so on.
I do not believe that RCs realize that we have these things I mentioned and that the Bible confirms them,and we live accordingly. It is my experience that Christians in many places,Believe-Repent and are baptized,and continue to live their lives in Christ,knowing His voice through the Spiritual life.When I have traveled years ago,Christians in Wales,Britain,Viet Nam,Thailand,Canada and in Mexico for starters all had similar testimonies as to who and what Christ is.Believers and their congregations do the same things everywhere.
Bibles are read,pastors expound on what is taught in Scripture,hymns and songs are sung to the glory of God,worship is the same wherever one goes.The only difference is the language if it is not of course English.
The same good works are done in Belgium within evangelical communities as are done with believers in Singapore.The poor are fed,clothed,and loved,and given the heartfelt message to turn to Christ who will change a person and give them life eternal.
The Authority is that basic trust in JESUS who is the only authority concerning His relationship with His Father in glory.No one knows the Father as Jesus does,and vice versa. Through the Holy Spirit Jesus is revealed to us,and in the teachings of Jesus as confirmed through Scripture,the Father is known to us as well.
Authority comes through the Person of Jesus Christ,we trust and love Him,and He uses us as vessels to serve and love Him,and that is shed abroad to others around us,by the Holy Spirit,and our obedience to the Spirit of Truth.
#421083 Feb 9, 2013
ACTUALLY father Rob,you reject us more than we reject you.It is that simple.Your calling yourself Catholic does not make you anymore a Christian,than my calling myself a Catholic makes me a Christian.
As a Roman Catholic you reject us because you believe that we do not have the authority of Christ at all,but perhaps you think we have the crumbs that fell to the floor for the dogs to eat.In order to be a true Catholic in your teaching,one must be a Roman Catholic.The Orthodox,Anglicans and Lutherans would refute that would'nt they?
Many protestants and evangelicals through the years have said in fact they are C a t h o l i c,but not Roman Catholic.Well what is the point of saying I am a Catholic if I do not adhere to the Papacy? I reject the concept of what Roman Catholics view as Catholic,more so than I actually feel about the word Catholic itself. Being Catholic does not bother me,but I can never really be one because I basically reject being a Roman Catholic.
Being part of the UNIVERSAL body of Christ is a given when we believe,repent of our sins,and are baptized into the Godhead(Father/Son and Holy Spirit).But if calling oneself Catholic is that important,it will soon be frivolous if oneself decides that they cannot be a Roman Catholic.Is there such a criter as a Catholic,who is not Roman Catholic?
If you say the Orthodox are Catholics,that may be true,but yet you say also that the Anglicans,Methodists,Lutherans ,and Reformed are not Catholics.
It is a term that can be refuted for hours,but yet it is meaningless to Christians who have no stake in becoming Roman Catholic. Wesleyan Methodists,who are very evangelical,in their CREED(Apostle's),say Christian and Holy Catholic Church.Most evangelicals do not even recite the Apostle's creed.YET they acknowledge every ounce of faith in the Living God,His Son,and the Holy Spirit,the communion of all saints,not just the ones canonized by the RC tradition.
We can argue till the cows come home authority and titles,but it all boils down to the simple message of the Gospel,to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.GRACE is what God uses to save us,and faith is the impetus to do such,we cannot save ourselves.If we could than the Cross is in Vain.
#421084 Feb 9, 2013
The Communion of Saints is basically an ambigious term as according to the RCC the only saint is one who is canonized by the Papacy,which includes the Cardinals and dthe Pope.It would be ridiculous to spend anytime trying to convince you that many precious believers who are not Roman Catholic are indeed s a i n t s.I have met some over the years,and they will never be made a Saint by your church,by virtue of their not being Roman Catholic.
Holiness is not limited to being a priest,nun,brother and deacon.Holiness is not limited to martyrdom either although that is definitely a good reason to call those who were martyred:S A I N T S.
Non-RC Christians do not seek to have the title saint in front of their name,but would rather hear the Lord say"Enter into my abode,you faithful servant."But we know that God calls us what He will,if He chooses to call us saints than so be it. Of course the RCC and the Orthodox traditions naturally have their whole retinue of saints.Personally I cannot argue over who of them is truly a saint and whatever.BUT it is so obvious that most of them are either priests,nuns,brothers or deacons.
I have not seen in the Scriptures the RC saints canonized,nor do I see the Apostle's ever alluding to the forming of saints as your church claims it has the ability to do.It does not matter who you canonize a saint,that person will face the same judgment before the King Jesus,as we all will be judged by Him.The Great Throne Judgment is for all those who are not believers in YESHUA.
No I do not condemn them to hell,I will not begin to comment on what happens to those who do not know Him our Lord.He is full of mercy and compassion,we all agree to that,HOW Wide is His Mercy?Only God can know that and respond to the claim of the Word on His behalf.
Nevertheless,Christ did not die in Vain,and we are called to preach the gospel to a l l Nations,baptizing them in the Name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit! The Communion of saints simply to us means,all believers in the communion of His body and blood,a spiritual body!
#421085 Feb 9, 2013
My blood pressure is not raised. Graces from spiritual communion with Christ are for all believers.It is very apparent that Communion,baptism,anointing with oil,benediction of blessing from the WORD,Marriage in Christ between a man and a woman,who become Husband and Wife,the baptism in the Spirit,are all graces benefited to the whole body.Each member of the body can experience these things.Single people who choose not to marry can serve Christ that is grace applied by the Spirit as well.
Good works,ministires of help,love,and support through many different ways are all graces from God,as He alone inspires us to live a life that works for the good of those around us,and those who are helped through Missions.
I cannot see any fellowship in Christ void of graces,for everything done in Christ requires faith,faith comes from God it is His gift to us,and we share in His Will which includes His love that works its way through us,when we by faith trust and open the door to our hearts.Conduits for Christ,all believers regardless of affiliation can be.
Sorry but I do not see saying a rosary as a grace conduit,the prayers said to Christ,and the love shared concerning His sacrifice is a vehicle of grace.You can use the rosary if you will,and may it be whatever you hope it to be,but it is not a source of grace for me as a believer.
Naturally it is a matter of faith,and if Catholics see the rosary or the wearing of medals and scapulars as a vehicle of grace,God will see their hearts and that remains alone in His sight to judge the reins of the heart.I will not condemn you or any Catholic for using those things to enhance faith,or to claim grace is applied through such.God alone judges these matters.
The things that RCs may consider the vehicles of God's grace may or may not be the same as what we see,but it is wrong for me as a believer to mock,or ridicule what you do in your private time before the Living God.I do not have any desire to say the rosary,or to wear medals,and scapulars.If you do and you believe your time in purgatory will be shorter,enjoy that belief,it does not injure my relationship with you as a believer in Christ..
What injures my relationship with any believer is when they claim that my worship,prayers and the things I do in Christ are invalid because I am not a member of their church.That works both ways.Your loving and serving Christ is paramount to me,and I see that above all you may do in regards to the choices you make to serve HIM best!
#421086 Feb 9, 2013
The Intercession of Mary to enable and give a greater love of her Son.I have no fault with that,but I do believe that the realm of prayer beyond the grave is to God alone,why?Because He simply tells us to sekk Him,in a closet as it were,and He will reward you openly.The praying to God by any man or woman is astounding enough for the human mind let alone pray to another human being.Is not the whole issue of the Bible and faith in God the most important direction one must make to find the Living God?
When we seek HIM above all else,that takes all of our attention,to ONE we cannot SEE with our eyes.It is important that we realize that God the Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit is our Focus.All else can be a distraction.
I of course believe that if Mary came to me personally,she would exalt her Son in a way far greater than I could ever do now,because she has the advantage of raising Him from infancy to manhood,and she witnessed His death.
However father Dye,I do not believe for one minute that Mary would come to me and tell me to make an image of her,and venerate her through that image,or to use the image to bless my house or protect it.I would never believe that she would want me to build a huge edifice that is named for her,and that great devotions,litanies and prayers should be said to her in appeasement for sin,or for her to approach her Son,as though He is more approachable only through her.
There is a big difference brother, between Mary sharing the beauty of her son to us,and or requiring our obedience to make images of her,say rosaries,and build fantastic cathedrals in her name.Apparitions of Mary all require those who saw them to say litanies to her Pure heart,her immaculate conception,and to recite rosaries which the majority of the prayers are to her.The Apparitions all required those who saw them to make images or statues of her,and to build large edifices in her name,to exalt and bring a glory to her person.I can read,and many of those who have read the same and are not RC see the same things I did.We reject the Apparitions,not because Mary might have a word from her Son to us all,but that she requires obesiance to her,which is not Judeo-Christianity.
The Mary of the Bible is not one who would go against the Jewish laws of true worship to God alone,that which includes latria worship and veneration to her person,in order to appease for sin,or make shorter time in Purgatory,and or approach Jesus as though He is better approachable through her.
#421087 Feb 9, 2013
The Tower of Babel should never be referred to any believer who seeks to live for Christ,reads the Word,and obeys Christ,and most of all seeks to do the Will of the Father.
When Christians meet no matter what their affiliation,Prayer is made,Worship is conducted through music and praise,the Holy Scriptures are read,expounded upon,testimonies are also given within reasonable time,prayer is made to invite souls to Christ,Communion is shared basically once a month or in some churches twice,or even more.I knew a Lutheran pastor who was forced out of his pulpit because he believed in healing,he had communion in his church every Sunday.That pastor married my wife and I,we went to his church for several years.
I have been to many different kinds of Evangelical churches,all had similar formats,all used the Word in respect and holiness.All practiced Communion ,and most of them shared a very spiritual time while remembering the death of Christ,and taking of the elements.
I never heard in any evangelical church regardless of affiliation,that Jesus was not God,or that He was not born of a Virgin.Baptisms are the same in most evangelical churches,great times of seeing men,women and children show that they publicly accept Christ,and in obedience go down into the water,are immersed for the remission of sins.The only difference sometimes is the casualness of the way some do things,some may be very serious and respectful,some are very casual,laid back as it were.I have personal opinions about that.
But the same gospel is preached in all Christian churches:Christ lived,taught,called out His Apostles,healed the sick,cleansed the lepers.He was arrested,suffered,scourged,cro wned with thorns,crucified on a cross(tree),died was buried,and Rose again on the third day.
#421088 Feb 9, 2013
Saint Francis may have been able to reform the church to some extent,and bless his heart he no doubt did.But he again was ultimately cloistered,along with Saint Clare as well.They reformed the Holy Orders or communities of single men and women sacrificing their lives for Christ.Com mendable,and wonderful to sa the least.
That is a big difference though for the laity of those times.Many poor and the very salt of the earth.History does not paint a pretty picture for your church politically and so on.We know that the Papacy although it may not have done away with people like Saint Francis,it did persecute those who were not in total agreement with them.
But that is not relevant today is it?Does the Catholic church persecute those who do not agree with them? Majority would say no,there is some exception in third world countries where RCism is state religion or church,and outsiders would be limited by different means,sometimes even physical assault.
Nevertheless,the reformers knew in their day that the only way to shed the corruption of the RCC was to sever themselves from that organization completely.We see that today,as some Christians feel they must separate totally from denominations.The large reformer churches such as Presbyterian,Methodist and Congregationalist or reformed,all witnessed exoduses because of liberalism and watered-down gospel.
The Salvation Army in England opposed the coldness of Anglicanism,and confronted poverty and human misery headon,with a gospel message that valued the soul and gave hope to the addicted,afflicted and despised of society.
God has purpose,and He should be given the glory for any endeavor that raised humans out of despair and sinful addiction.What a Catholic priest may not be able to do Rob,a pastor like Dave Wilkerson did with the Lord in the streets of Brooklyn,with vicious gangs.And you can say the same for some of the endeavors your priests,brothers and sisters do.But God is ALL in all,and we Christians have that benefit of the limitless power of Christ to reach the lost through all of us who are yielded to the LOVE of Jesus.
It takes faith not denomination to do of His good pleasure.He uses men and women and children in all denominations,and those organizations can be a help in financing endeavors,praying behind ministries,and corporate worship to the glory of God. But nothing takes the place of men and women who are yielded to Him,and will trust Him by faith,and do HIS Will as He Leads by the Holy Spirit of Promise.
#421089 Feb 9, 2013
Nothing, if that's all you know. There are so many good Protestants and people of all faiths.
Catholics have said many times you guys can get to Heaven. Well, it may get harder for someone in a teaching capacity, who learns the truth, but ignores it to save the embarrassment from peers.
But that's a different thing ..
The issue is: your team is telling us we are going to hell for worshiping Mary etc. At that point, the debate gets bigger. Instead of just being content with your relationship with Jesus Christ and declaring your love for Him, you're entering into a different arena by attempting to be an authority on the scriptures.
“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”
Since: Jun 10
"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"
#421090 Feb 9, 2013
I confront with the word of God the Bible...
and since what your Constantinian facade does not tech the word of God
It is only natural for it to speak against antichrist doctrines..
Rake your grievances up with God...
I didn't write the Bible ...I only write what it says..
I AM A PREACHER.... AND I HAVE BEEN SENT...YOU REJECT IT
YOU WILL HAVE... AN ETERNAL HELL... TO PAY...FOR YOUR REJECTION!
Best receive the message and thank God for the messenger...
THE BIBLE SAYS..
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
You don't want to believe it, that's not my problem.
YOUR ACCOUNTABILITY to God's word INCREASES EACH TIME YOU ARE GIVEN THE TRUTH OF IT.
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