Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 568,854
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Dan

Omaha, NE

#418132 Jan 25, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
104 092
<quoted text>
If you have followed this thread you have seen me using Scripture to debunk the teaching that Christ is God Almighty and that God Almighty is Christ.
However, you as any other, can deny the truth..
The Catholics teach that Christ is the Incarnate Son of God...SBC teaches Christ is the Son of God..this, as I have shown is supported by Scripture and it is my firm belief...
What is your belief on the matter....
Full of Love, a non-Catholic, quite obviously has taken the same approach to his faith as you have and concluded differently-both of you employ the Bible alone and interpret same yourself.

You two have come to completely different conclusions respective to the Trinity. One of you is wrong, or both of you are wrong.

How do you know who is correct?
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#418133 Jan 25, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
093
<quoted text>
I have never denied the Holy Trinity...
I firmly believe Scripture that supports the Catholic teaching that Christ is the incarnate Son of God and not God the Almighty as Catholics erroneously believe....
Is the deity of Christ biblical?"
Answer: In addition to Jesus’ specific claims about Himself, His disciples also acknowledged the deity of Christ. They claimed that Jesus had the right to forgive sins—something only God can do—as it is God who is offended by sin (Acts 5:31; Colossians 3:13; Psalm 130:4; Jeremiah 31:34). In close connection with this last claim, Jesus is also said to be the one who will “judge the living and the dead”(2 Timothy 4:1). Thomas cried out to Jesus,“My Lord and my God!”(John 20:28). Paul calls Jesus “great God and Savior”(Titus 2:13) and points out that prior to His incarnation Jesus existed in the “form of God”(Philippians 2:5-8). God the Father says regarding Jesus:“Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever”(Hebrews 1:8). John states that “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God”(John 1:1). Examples of Scriptures that teach the deity of Christ are many (see Revelation 1:17, 2:8, 22:13; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 2:6-8; Psalm 18:2, 95:1; 1 Peter 5:4; Hebrews 13:20), but even one of these is enough to show that Christ was considered to be God by His followers.
Jesus is also given titles that are unique to YHWH (the formal name of God) in the Old Testament. The Old Testament title “redeemer”(Psalm 130:7; Hosea 13:14) is used of Jesus in the New Testament (Titus 2:13; Revelation 5:9). Jesus is called Immanuel—“God with us”—in Matthew 1. In Zechariah 12:10, it is YHWH who says,“They will look on me, the one they have pierced.” But the New Testament applies this to Jesus’ crucifixion (John 19:37; Revelation 1:7). If it is YHWH who is pierced and looked upon, and Jesus was the one pierced and looked upon, then Jesus is YHWH. Paul interprets Isaiah 45:22-23 as applying to Jesus in Philippians 2:10-11. Further, Jesus’ name is used alongside God’s in prayer “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ”(Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 1:2). This would be blasphemy if Christ were not deity. The name of Jesus appears with God's in Jesus' commanded to baptize “in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”(Matthew 28:19; see also 2 Corinthians 13:14).
Actions that can be accomplished only by God are credited to Jesus. Jesus not only raised the dead (John 5:21, 11:38-44) and forgave sins (Acts 5:31, 13:38), He created and sustains the universe (John 1:2; Colossians 1:16-17). This becomes even clearer when one considers YHWH said He was alone during creation (Isaiah 44:24). Further, Christ possesses attributes that only deity can have: eternality (John 8:58), omnipresence (Matthew 18:20, 28:20), omniscience (Matthew 16:21), and omnipotence (John 11:38-44).
Now, it is one thing to claim to be God or to fool someone into believing it is true, and something else entirely to prove it to be so. Christ offered many miracles as proof of His claim to deity. Just a few of Jesus' miracles include turning water to wine (John 2:7), walking on water (Matthew 14:25), multiplying physical objects (John 6:11), healing the blind (John 9:7), the lame (Mark 2:3), and the sick (Matthew 9:35; Mark 1:40-42), and even raising people from the dead (John 11:43-44; Luke 7:11-15; Mark 5:35). Moreover, Christ Himself rose from the dead. Far from the so-called dying and rising gods of pagan mythology, nothing like the resurrection is seriously claimed by other religions, and no other claim has as much extra-scriptural confirmation.
There are at least twelve historical facts about Jesus that even non-Christian critical scholars will admit:
cont
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#418134 Jan 25, 2013
Oxbow
cont
1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.
4. Jesus' tomb was discovered (or was claimed to be discovered) to be empty a few days later.
5. The disciples believed they experienced appearances of the risen Jesus.
6. After this, the disciples were transformed from doubters into bold believers.
7. This message was the center of preaching in the early Church.
8. This message was preached in Jerusalem.
9. As a result of this preaching, the Church was born and it grew.
10. Resurrection day, Sunday, replaced the Sabbath (Saturday) as the primary day of worship.
11. James, a skeptic, was converted when he also believed that he saw the resurrected Jesus.
12. Paul, an enemy of Christianity, was converted by an experience which he believed to be an appearance of the risen Jesus.
Even if someone were to object to this specific list, only a few are needed to prove the resurrection and establish the gospel: Jesus' death, burial, resurrection, and appearances (1 Corinthians 15:1-5). While there may be some theories to explain one or two of the above facts, only the resurrection explains and accounts for them all. Critics admit that the disciples claimed they saw the risen Jesus. Neither lies nor hallucinations can transform people the way the resurrection did. First, what would they have had to gain? Christianity was not popular and it certainly did not make them any money. Second, liars do not make good martyrs. There is no better explanation than the resurrection for the disciples’ willingness to die horrible deaths for their faith. Yes, many people die for lies that they think are true, but people do not die for what they know is untrue.
In conclusion, Christ claimed He was YHWH, that He was deity (not just “a god” but the one true God); His followers (Jews who would have been terrified of idolatry) believed Him and referred to Him as God. Christ proved His claims to deity through miracles, including the world-altering resurrection. No other hypothesis can explain these facts. Yes, the deity of Christ is biblical.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#418135 Jan 25, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
You mistake arrogance for confidence.
Confidence in what? Surely not Jesus.
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not trying to convert you, I know you've rejected the Church.

Good - because it is futile to do so.
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you try so hard to convert others to gnosticism? I think it's lack of confidence.
No it's not, it is to bring them closer to Jesus.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#418137 Jan 25, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
108 093
<quoted text>
There is a new book on the market now..it just came out..it is called "dictionary"...you need one.
Incarnate: Embodied in human form; personified
Permit me. Christ, the Second Person in the Holy Trinity was embodied in human form...He was personified.
A minature inverter/converter is always a great means to learn something new.

and when we look at your word description(embodied) we find that it totally agrees with what I have been saying about an egg of mary was NEVER used by God as far as Jesus was concerned.

em·bod·y (m-bd)
tr.v. em·bod·ied, em·bod·y·ing, em·bod·ies
1. To give a bodily form to;

NOTICE THAT IT SAYS TO GIVE A BODILY FORM.

AN EGG IS JUST THAT, AN EGG, AND LIKE i HAVE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN, AN EGG CAN NOT IN AND OF ITSELF PRODUCES A BODY.LOL

BUT THE EMBRYO DOES.
Fun Facts

Freeland, MI

#418138 Jan 25, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
120
<quoted text>
You evidently did not understand my request..
The Holy Trinity: God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Show me this Trinity that expresses your belief that God is Christ and that Christ is God.
Look again...

9 You, however, live not by your natural inclinations, but by the Spirit, since the

Spirit of God
has made a home in you. Indeed, anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ

does not belong to him
http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php...
"The Spirit of Christ"...
not..
The Spirit 'Given to' Christ...
Questions?
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ...
Dan

Omaha, NE

#418139 Jan 25, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>A minature inverter/converter is always a great means to learn something new.
and when we look at your word description(embodied) we find that it totally agrees with what I have been saying about an egg of mary was NEVER used by God as far as Jesus was concerned.
em·bod·y (m-bd)
tr.v. em·bod·ied, em·bod·y·ing, em·bod·ies
1. To give a bodily form to;
NOTICE THAT IT SAYS TO GIVE A BODILY FORM.
AN EGG IS JUST THAT, AN EGG, AND LIKE i HAVE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN, AN EGG CAN NOT IN AND OF ITSELF PRODUCES A BODY.LOL
BUT THE EMBRYO DOES.
Embryos occur without a fertilzed egg (in human development)?

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#418140 Jan 25, 2013
LTM wrote:
Oxbow
cont
1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.
4. Jesus' tomb was discovered (or was claimed to be discovered) to be empty a few days later.
5. The disciples believed they experienced appearances of the risen Jesus.
6. After this, the disciples were transformed from doubters into bold believers.
7. This message was the center of preaching in the early Church.
8. This message was preached in Jerusalem.
9. As a result of this preaching, the Church was born and it grew.
10. Resurrection day, Sunday, replaced the Sabbath (Saturday) as the primary day of worship.
11. James, a skeptic, was converted when he also believed that he saw the resurrected Jesus.
12. Paul, an enemy of Christianity, was converted by an experience which he believed to be an appearance of the risen Jesus.
Even if someone were to object to this specific list, only a few are needed to prove the resurrection and establish the gospel: Jesus' death, burial, resurrection, and appearances (1 Corinthians 15:1-5). While there may be some theories to explain one or two of the above facts, only the resurrection explains and accounts for them all. Critics admit that the disciples claimed they saw the risen Jesus. Neither lies nor hallucinations can transform people the way the resurrection did. First, what would they have had to gain? Christianity was not popular and it certainly did not make them any money. Second, liars do not make good martyrs. There is no better explanation than the resurrection for the disciples’ willingness to die horrible deaths for their faith. Yes, many people die for lies that they think are true, but people do not die for what they know is untrue.
In conclusion, Christ claimed He was YHWH, that He was deity (not just “a god” but the one true God); His followers (Jews who would have been terrified of idolatry) believed Him and referred to Him as God. Christ proved His claims to deity through miracles, including the world-altering resurrection. No other hypothesis can explain these facts. Yes, the deity of Christ is biblical.
THIS MATTER CAN BE RESOLVED VERY EASILY.

all OXBOW has to say is this; God, the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, nothing more has to be added, however if he wants to be bullheaded, who on here would wish for him to be otherwise, if he so chooses.

One can not be Seperated from the other. when I first got saved, even to think of the Name of Jesus would give me Blessings and i wondered about that since I felt that God the Father would be jealous, but he soon let me know that He was well pleased and proud of His Son.

that settled it in my Heart and I have never looked at this dilemma(in my mind,anyway) any other way, since it isnt.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#418141 Jan 25, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>THIS MATTER CAN BE RESOLVED VERY EASILY.
all OXBOW has to say is this; God, the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, nothing more has to be added, however if he wants to be bullheaded, who on here would wish for him to be otherwise, if he so chooses.
One can not be Seperated from the other. when I first got saved, even to think of the Name of Jesus would give me Blessings and i wondered about that since I felt that God the Father would be jealous, but he soon let me know that He was well pleased and proud of His Son.
that settled it in my Heart and I have never looked at this dilemma(in my mind,anyway) any other way, since it isnt.
Well, Oxbow isn't saying that.

Why are you all so anxious to bail Oxbow out of his heresy?

I'm Catholic and believe in the Trinity and you guys have condemned me to the nether regions a thousand times.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#418142 Jan 25, 2013
Catholic Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
this isn't facebook.
I realize that this isnt facebook, however, to show a picture of a little baby sometimes turns the insults, fangs showing and so on, into all of us forgetting those displays and becoming human beings with soemthing in common.

I hope that you understand that reasoning, because that is why I put it up there, but never mind, you can now look at my ugly mug instead of a beautiful baby boy, as I do what I do best.

SITTING.
ReginaM

Jackson, NJ

#418143 Jan 25, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>A minature inverter/converter is always a great means to learn something new.
and when we look at your word description(embodied) we find that it totally agrees with what I have been saying about an egg of mary was NEVER used by God as far as Jesus was concerned.
em·bod·y (m-bd)
tr.v. em·bod·ied, em·bod·y·ing, em·bod·ies
1. To give a bodily form to;
NOTICE THAT IT SAYS TO GIVE A BODILY FORM.
AN EGG IS JUST THAT, AN EGG, AND LIKE i HAVE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN, AN EGG CAN NOT IN AND OF ITSELF PRODUCES A BODY.LOL
BUT THE EMBRYO DOES.
An egg must be fertilized first.

"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]

"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#418144 Jan 25, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Embryos occur without a fertilzed egg (in human development)?
and that simply put, is WHY it was considered a miracle.

do you really believe that God had sexual intercourse with Mary, fertilizing her egg, making Jesus half man/ half God?

I dont. because if that occured, that would be exactly what Jesus would have been.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#418145 Jan 25, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Oxbow isn't saying that.
Why are you all so anxious to bail Oxbow out of his heresy?
I'm Catholic and believe in the Trinity and you guys have condemned me to the nether regions a thousand times.
go back to grade school,dan, calling oxbow [bullheaded] isnt bailing him out of anything.

I consider him in the same class as the sda, 4bdn,and Orville.

USELESS
Dan

Omaha, NE

#418146 Jan 25, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>and that simply put, is WHY it was considered a miracle.
do you really believe that God had sexual intercourse with Mary, fertilizing her egg, making Jesus half man/ half God?
I dont. because if that occured, that would be exactly what Jesus would have been.
Um, He was fully man and fully God.

His conception was miraculous.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#418147 Jan 25, 2013
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
An egg must be fertilized first.
"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]
"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]
"Embryo: The early developing fertilize. to me it is aas clear asd egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...
God has no chromosomes, nor did he fertilize any egg of mary's.

go back and read genesis and what God said about the "seed".
a woman has no [seed}, therefore those words were figuretive and was Speaking of the Messiah that was to come.

I am sorry, but I am somewhat knowledgable about the Reproductive system of the human race and how also it relates to the Messiah.and even if a human egg was used, it couldnt have come from mary either since as I said, then Jesus would have been half man/half God in that scenario also.

Now go back and read about the embryo and what continues to happen with it and its relationship to the woman as it grows.

this is as clear as clear can be.

and reggie, it doesnt take anything away from this miracleous Event, not if you stop and ponder on it.just makes it understandable for even the most simple minded person.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#418148 Jan 25, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Um, He was fully man and fully God.
His conception was miraculous.
No, her pregnancy was miraculous.

the word [conceive] means a beginning of her pregnancy with the Christ child.it doesnt mean that God had sexual relations with Mary, Get Real!!!!
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#418149 Jan 25, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Confidence in what? Surely not Jesus.
<quoted text>
Good - because it is futile to do so.
<quoted text>
No it's not, it is to bring them closer to Jesus.
Let's make a deal NASaL. You stop trying to blow gnosticism up everyone's behind, and I'll stop making fun of it.
Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#418151 Jan 25, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
090 070 065
<quoted text>
You, evidently, have not been following this thread. Catholics on this forum have said, over and over, that Christ is God and God is Christ...including Clay..They have provided tons of Scripture that they insist supports their belief!!!!!???? Hello!!!!!
I hope that every Catholic who denies that Christ is the Incarnate Son of God, reads this absolute truth...
"If you don't subscribe to the Teaching that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Son of God, you are NOT Catholic. You cannot be.
.
In rejecting that Teaching, you place yourself outside of the Church."
Thank you for your support...
???

You seem to be taking two opposing views at the same time ...
.
???
.
Is it possible ... you are committing (unconsciously) the common American error of saying (thinking) "God" when you really mean "the Father?"
.
(To everyone else: No. I am NOT saying "The Father is not God." What I am saying is that for many Americans, when we say the word "God," we are really thinking of "God he Father."
.
As in "Jesus died on th cross in obedience to God's will."
.
That should more correctly be : "Jesus died on the cross in obedience to the will of the Father."

(ALSO ***not*** saying that the will of Jesus or the Holy Spirit was somehow different.)

If Oxbow is reading "Jesus is God" to mean "Jesus is God the Father," then his objection becomes obviously correct.
.
Jesus is ONE WITH the Father, but is NOT the Father, nor is He the Holy Spirit, yet He is ONE WITH the Holy Spirit.
.
ONE God.
.
THREE Persons.
.
(Notice I did not say "THREE distinct Persons.")
.
You could probably say it that way, but you would have to be very cautious about what you mean ... since they are in fact One, which in English does not jibe well with the connotations of "distinct."
.
The Father did not die on the Cross.
.
The Holy Spirit did not rise from the dead.
.
God DID DO both of these things, in the Person of Jesus, who is God the Son.
.
There.
.
That's as much as I can guess as to the source of the confusion with Oxbow.
.
If he means something ELSE, I have no idea how it would fit with Christianity ...
.
Rob
ReginaM

Jackson, NJ

#418152 Jan 25, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>and that simply put, is WHY it was considered a miracle.
do you really believe that God had sexual intercourse with Mary, fertilizing her egg, making Jesus half man/ half God?
I dont. because if that occured, that would be exactly what Jesus would have been.
Half man/half God?? Eeeek! Not good, Preston. That's another ancient heresy.

Christ is truly God and truly man in every sense except sin. He's not split in half.

Re fertilization: the Holy Spirit didn't have intercourse with the Blessed Virgin. Being God, physical sex, in the way that we understand it, was not required in order to fertilize her egg. However, it was indeed fertilized, the same effect occurred just as if intercourse was involved. Anything else means Jesus wasn't truly human, therefore we weren't redeemed.

Since the Blessed Mother was His only human parent, Christ's DNA comes from His mother, His blood is hers.
Hit And Run

Piedmont, OK

#418153 Jan 25, 2013
You Sheeple don't have a clue as to who you are worshiping first lets start with.

Revelation 12 /9 the whole world is deceived. Do you think because you are a christian or a catholic this does not pertain to you.

How many of you have reverenced the creator....

Only a few are called and chosen to understand ....

Yahweh is not A god he never was one but man changed his name and made him A god.the very thing he warns you not to worship god and or gods so what do you do you worship A god....

Yahweh Is not A god.......Now continue on with your lies and the tickling of each others ears....as for me I tell it like it is And how the roman catholick church is the woman the beast that sits on seven hills named after seven different god.and is without a teacher but for satan. How she has changed the sabbath and changed the laws..... Not one of you can prove this to be un true so what do you do you over look it....because you are not willing to give up your sin.....

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