Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[Clay]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
No, you still belong to a group that not only committed terrible crimes, but covered them as well. It is not one or two bad priest or even just a few dozen! It is the entire church, which helped cover up the crimes and the followers who continue to support a criminal syndicate!
It has very little to do with your beliefs and everything to do with your support!

Oh no no on. You can't make a blanket statement that its the entire Church top to bottom.
I thought you Atheist were interested in scientific evidence? Isn't that how you come to the conclusion that there is no God?
Well scientific evidence shows the abuse thing isn't anymore in the CC then your immediate family.
So, who in Black Sheeps family is covering it up? We know its Michael in his family. He obviously struggles with attraction to children based on his unprecedented attention to this subject..
Someone in your family is doing the same thing. I know you'd like to think its a catholic thing, But its right in front of you as you gather with your kin at Thanksgiving or Christmas.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
"To me, Catholicism isn't faith at all, it is dictation from one man to another"
Believe it or not, I can see how someone on the outside looking in, has that impression.
But you NASL, said you used to be in the Church, so I would expect a little more understanding of how we view things.
The main thing is that we believe Christ started an actual Church. A hierarchy; a magisterium. New Testament scripture Is a result of this magisterium's authority when they added 27 books to the Bible in the 4th century.
Given the fact that Christ is God made manifest...and He started a Church... This Church would have to be 100% right on teachings or not at all. Because Christ wasn't a little right here or somewhat right there.. No, he was/is 100% right.
And I can't find the Catholic Church in error on one single doctrine. Its only when folks take a deceptive stance towards the Church that they can 'show' error. ie citing bible verses out of context.

You are comingling what Jesus stated and taught with what men claimed he taught.

You failed to understand that.

"this magisterium's authority when they added 27 books to the Bible in the 4th century."

400 yrs later?

Really? This justifies what you believe as "true"?

Wanna try again? Or is this where you say that "God's Inspiration" now takes precendence?

It also sort of washed down the drain, that "Apostolic Succession" too.

Really?

[Clay]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
No, you still belong to a group that not only committed terrible crimes, but covered them as well.i!

Actually, YOU belong to group that committed terrible crimes too. You should leave your family and live by yourself.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
"To me, Catholicism isn't faith at all, it is dictation from one man to another"
Believe it or not, I can see how someone on the outside looking in, has that impression.
But you NASL, said you used to be in the Church, so I would expect a little more understanding of how we view things.
The main thing is that we believe Christ started an actual Church. A hierarchy; a magisterium. New Testament scripture Is a result of this magisterium's authority when they added 27 books to the Bible in the 4th century.
Given the fact that Christ is God made manifest...and He started a Church... This Church would have to be 100% right on teachings or not at all. Because Christ wasn't a little right here or somewhat right there.. No, he was/is 100% right.
And I can't find the Catholic Church in error on one single doctrine. Its only when folks take a deceptive stance towards the Church that they can 'show' error. ie citing bible verses out of context.

You may want to read "The Jesus Wars" for a better understanding of what you believe to be "true".
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wars-Patriarchs-E...

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
You can't understand why educated people today are bailing out of organized religion.
1 in 5 americans today claims no religion. Doubled in just 12 years.
Believe what you want, but there is no clear winner of the truth, if there was everyone would be that religion.

"You can't understand why educated people today are bailing out of organized religion."

Of course they can't, because they don't even understand their own religion well enough to make this step themselves.

They would rather go on believing as they do, in the charade that they were given, than to take the effort and understand:

- why do I only believe in a portion of what Jesus taught?
- why do I think "Paul" is more enlightened than Jesus or the other Apostles?

All to do with Self, but through their eyes, they think this is being "selfish", "self-centered", or even "self-righteous".

All are incorrect, if one realizes that if one could examine themself of the faults they have within, that these "traits" would disappear.

They must be afraid of being free from these "sins".

[4GVN]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Nothing is being infallibly and unchangeably taught. It's a discipline, a small "t" tradition. Neither are wrong. It's not at all like women being priests. That has been "taught", it's been defined as something that cannot happen. If you can't accept that, well, I'm sorry.

Do you not understand that it is wrong for man to place requirements on God's servents that God himself did not place. The Pharisees were noted for making laws apart from God. I believe taht you are intelligent enough to understand the concept.

[New Age Spiritual Leader]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
No, you still belong to a group that not only committed terrible crimes, but covered them as well. It is not one or two bad priest or even just a few dozen! It is the entire church, which helped cover up the crimes and the followers who continue to support a criminal syndicate!
It has very little to do with your beliefs and everything to do with your support!

Hey TBS - they don't see it this way. They feel that the so-called UNDEFINED "Church" is all they need, and that just because certain individuals (their hierarchy) has caused harm to children, it has not affect upon their "church" or the embodiment of the so-called UNDEFINED "Church".

Yet, they will donate to it, support it, and even like this forum posters exclaim - believe in it.

Donating to it - to help pay off the victims of said abuse
Support it - by attending the services, even though they know children have been abused by a priest, they just don't know if their priest is guilty or not.

Believe in it - because they choose to only believe in half of what Jesus taught - those teachings accumulated by men.

Quite sad, in many regards, for an individual to support child abuse, but all the while, deny they do.

This is the honesty they fear and are afraid to express.

[TheBlackSheep]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh no no on. You can't make a blanket statement that its the entire Church top to bottom.
I thought you Atheist were interested in scientific evidence? Isn't that how you come to the conclusion that there is no God?
Well scientific evidence shows the abuse thing isn't anymore in the CC then your immediate family.
So, who in Black Sheeps family is covering it up? We know its Michael in his family. He obviously struggles with attraction to children based on his unprecedented attention to this subject..
Someone in your family is doing the same thing. I know you'd like to think its a catholic thing, But its right in front of you as you gather with your kin at Thanksgiving or Christmas.

One very important distinction, our families are not claiming to be 'god' guided, or 'god' anything. The church believes and insists that its followers believe that god is in control. Until my family makes such a claim, you are missing in the wind!

Your god appointed people failed you!

Science in no way tries to proof that there is no god. There is just, very simply no god evidence of any god. Try to get that straight.

[Michael]

preston wrote:

<quoted text>DONT YOU THINK THAT IT IS ABOUT TIME FOR YOU TO SHUT UP AND GROW UP?
you griped about me calling out LTM for her lying but you have drug this dead horse of yours for 3000 miles or so.

NOPE! I got 10,000 more miles to go! GIDDY UP!

[Michael]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

<quoted text>
"You can't understand why educated people today are bailing out of organized religion."
Of course they can't, because they don't even understand their own religion well enough to make this step themselves.
They would rather go on believing as they do, in the charade that they were given, than to take the effort and understand:
- why do I only believe in a portion of what Jesus taught?
- why do I think "Paul" is more enlightened than Jesus or the other Apostles?
All to do with Self, but through their eyes, they think this is being "selfish", "self-centered", or even "self-righteous".
All are incorrect, if one realizes that if one could examine themself of the faults they have within, that these "traits" would disappear.
They must be afraid of being free from these "sins".

Another thing that is baffling. The cousins/son debate from the bible.

Catholics claim that Jesus had no brothers, because centuries later the church declared Mary an ever virgin, yet scriptures in several locations clearly state brothers not cousins, and lets not forget! it was the "CATHOLIC FATHERS THEMSELVES" who wrote this stuff, and catholics today dispute what the CATHOLIC FATHERS WROTE.

(lol)

makes no common sense!

[TheBlackSheep]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, YOU belong to group that committed terrible crimes too. You should leave your family and live by yourself.

Do I claim that my family has any connection to a prefect God? No.

Do I claim that god selected anyone in my family to lead it?

No, but the rcc does. The rcc makes several claims about how god has his hand in it, yet the rcc has been caught doing many things which are illegal.

[Michael]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
One very important distinction, our families are not claiming to be 'god' guided, or 'god' anything. The church believes and insists that its followers believe that god is in control. Until my family makes such a claim, you are missing in the wind!
Your god appointed people failed you!
Science in no way tries to proof that there is no god. There is just, very simply no god evidence of any god. Try to get that straight.

Have you seen God?...... Has Clay seen God?....Has Anthony seen God?...Has ReginaM. seen God?...... Has Michael seen God?

If there are so many skeptics today in our world about God, wouldn't it be time that God makes himself known? Would kind of help the credability along, wouldn't you think?

30,000 innocent children starve to death everyday in our world. No one helping them, yet religious people claim saying some little prayer 3 times, is going to help them with their little breathing problem, or nose cancer will disappear.......but no help for those starving.

BUSTED!

[Clay]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

<quoted text>
You may want to read "The Jesus Wars" for a better understanding of what you believe to be "true".
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wars-Patriarchs-E...

Yes I'm aware of that.

Here's the problem:

You'd have to accept that 4 Patriarchs, 3 Queens, and a couple Emperors overtook what Christ wished to establish.
That's not faith at all. Christ being who He is, wouldn't let that sort of thing infiltrate His teachings.
Whatever religion prevailed HAD to be the one that Christ wanted.(and no, Catholicism was not spread by the sword.. 35 of the first Popes were murdered and countless Priests fed to the lions.)

There was no secret hidden church Our Lord started. Nothing got mixed up. Nothing was spread that wasn't His will. Our Lord is the good shepherd who does not leave His flock.

You can't buy into this conspiracy Christianity stuff NASL. It insults Our Lord and lacks legitimate faith.

[LTM]

confrinting with the word wrote:

who="LTM"
Thank you I thought it was also, my Mom who was a nurse, use to wrap a raw onion up in an old sock and put it around our throat when we had the flu or a common cold.
Some of these old remedies really work . some people are allergies to sprays to freshen the house I use vinegar. Just place a bowl in a room and the odors are gone with in about half and hour
&&&&&& &&&&&& &&&
Mom baked her onions first...
KM

Really?? did she use it for colds and flu's
baked onions sounds like something I would eat.
LOL

[Hermeneutics Smutics]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
If treatment is no gurantee that a person will not re-offend why are we allowing them to get out? Every city in america has sex offender registries that are nothing but ticking time bombs ready to go off at anytime.
Isn't that the problem?
We all know this is a problem that cuts across all society. The issue with the catholic church is the church that systematically all around the world every bishop who had first hand knowledge of an offender, operated EXACTLY the same way in dealing with the offenders. LIE for the perpitrators, DECEIVE the followers as to why the offenders were getting moved, and COVERED UP these crimes from authorities, everytime. What rational person does that? They all did it. Its obvious to me people higher up than the Bishops must have been giving orders for all the bishops to act in the exact same manner of dealing with the many situations. How else could it be explained?
The first phone call past or present of anyone taking serious advantage of anyone should be 9-1-1. Not a physciatrist. Who does that?.....
Every 9-1-1 call was made by the victims or their families. What does that say about the church leaders who preach morality but don't practice it themselves?
Not very much.

iN MOST CASeS THE LAW DICTATES THAT THE OFFENDER CAN ONLY BE KEPT INCARCERATED FOR A DEFINITE AMOUNT OF TIME. aN EXCEPTION WOUD BE IF THE OFFENDER IS declared a predatory sex offender. n this case he is placed in a mental health side of the prison system ( still prison) and he is evaluated friom time to tinme as far as his dangerousness is concerned. He can be kept incarcerated a long time this way. Of course civil rights activists are oposed to this.(sorry my caps were opon at the beginning)

[TheBlackSheep]

New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey TBS - they don't see it this way. They feel that the so-called UNDEFINED "Church" is all they need, and that just because certain individuals (their hierarchy) has caused harm to children, it has not affect upon their "church" or the embodiment of the so-called UNDEFINED "Church".
Yet, they will donate to it, support it, and even like this forum posters exclaim - believe in it.
Donating to it - to help pay off the victims of said abuse
Support it - by attending the services, even though they know children have been abused by a priest, they just don't know if their priest is guilty or not.
Believe in it - because they choose to only believe in half of what Jesus taught - those teachings accumulated by men.
Quite sad, in many regards, for an individual to support child abuse, but all the while, deny they do.
This is the honesty they fear and are afraid to express.

I Know! "Hey, Black Sheep, you had a pervert uncle, so you Are just the same as we are the same as us!"

No, I do not support my uncle and his evil ways! I don't tried to minimize my uncle's crimes. No one in my family tried to cover up my uncle's crimes! Those are the key issues! Catholics are thing to cover up and minimize the criminals in their ranks.

[Michael]

....... where St. Paul says, "but other of the Apostles saw I none, save James, the Lord's BROTHER."

Did he say brother? Did he mean cousin? Who says cousin all the time? NOBODY!!

Catholics today, dispute what their own catholic fathers wrote in the scriptures themselves.

UNBELIEVABLE!

[Michael]

Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:

<quoted text>iN MOST CASeS THE LAW DICTATES THAT THE OFFENDER CAN ONLY BE KEPT INCARCERATED FOR A DEFINITE AMOUNT OF TIME. aN EXCEPTION WOUD BE IF THE OFFENDER IS declared a predatory sex offender. n this case he is placed in a mental health side of the prison system ( still prison) and he is evaluated friom time to tinme as far as his dangerousness is concerned. He can be kept incarcerated a long time this way. Of course civil rights activists are oposed to this.(sorry my caps were opon at the beginning)

We need to change the laws! We need to build more Jails! We need to protect what we have!

We need to make every lieing Bishop accountable for his actions in protecting those individuals that went on to offend even more.

I am not hearing it from any catholics!

Generally speaking, anyone in society who takes advantage of any indefencable person needs to be accountable for his actions, regardless of his position in society.

[TheBlackSheep]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you seen God?...... Has Clay seen God?....Has Anthony seen God?...Has ReginaM. seen God?...... Has Michael seen God?
If there are so many skeptics today in our world about God, wouldn't it be time that God makes himself known? Would kind of help the credability along, wouldn't you think?
30,000 innocent children starve to death everyday in our world. No one helping them, yet religious people claim saying some little prayer 3 times, is going to help them with their little breathing problem, or nose cancer will disappear.......but no help for those starving.
BUSTED!

One would think! Several times in the bible, god made it clear to some very small group, that he existed. Never to a large group and never caught on film. Why?

Why will he not restore a limb?

Christians claim that god will not be tempted, yet many times, in the bible and in other non verifiable places, god did or was tempted and did show himself. Just never where we could verify it.

Urban legends are the same way,yet their are not willing to see it.

[Hermeneutics Smutics]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you seen God?...... Has Clay seen God?....Has Anthony seen God?...Has ReginaM. seen God?...... Has Michael seen God?
!

Michael, I saw God down at the Barber Shop.He showed up cause He heard that an Orthodox priest was scheduled for a shave and boy was He upset.
God asked me about you. Don't worry.I covered for you.