Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

[Michael]

Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:

<quoted text>I got into working with sex offenders in the 80's. Yopu are correct.The state of treatment was horribly misguided and off track. Offenders were either taken at their word that they would stop or sent into psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is and remains totally ineffective with sex offenders. We had to fight with a very well known psychiatric institute to try to start sex offender treatment at our institution.They said standard treatment would be sufficient. We traveled to Massachusettes to talk to a man named Nick Groth, who was a pioneer in sopecialized sex offender treatment in those days. From there to see Fay Honey Knopp etc and we started a program.For adolescents. Specialized sex offender treatment can be effective.
My point is the Church did what others were doing during that time frame.
What is most important is what they are doing in the present. Hopefully they are using the top of the line treatment. Hopefully the culture of denial where it existed is being corrected.

Hermi, who cares about physco therapy or treatment. YOU CALL THE POLICE WHEN A CRIME IS COMMITTED! Period!

During that time period! Anytime period in the past if a man molested or raped a woman the police were called. They didn't call a pychiatrist.

More BS! excuses especially for the LIEING, DECEIVING and COVERING UP of these FELONY CRIMES by the BISHOPS.

There is no EXCUSE for criiminal behavior.

Nearly 3 Billion dollars paid out so far for criminal behavior by catholic clergy. The money that was not covered by insurance was paid for by you and all other catholics who put money on the collection plates, nothing from the actually molestors or lieing Bishops who created this mess in the first place.

1700 years of sexual abuse by catholic clergy, and that is all you got?

UNBELIEVABLE!

[Anthony MN]

confrinting with the word wrote:

<quoted text>
~~~
I have pasted the above scriptures here...
You left out a KEY VERSE in your attempting to make your point...
NOTE
verse
1Co 7:6 But I speak this by ==>permission,<=== and
not of===>commandment. <===
PERMISSION DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN 1 COR 7:6
G4774
&#963;&#965;&#947; &#947;&#957;&#969; &#769;&#956;&#951;
suggno&#772;me&#772;
soong-gno'-may
From a compound of G4862 and G1097; fellow knowledge, that is, concession:- permission.
COMMANDMENT DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN 1COR 7:6
G2003
&#949;&#787;&#960; &#953;&#964;&#945; &#947;&#951;&#769;
epitage&#772;
ep-ee-tag-ay'
From G2004; an injunction or decree; by implication authoritativeness:- authority, commandment.
ALL YOUR SCRIPTURES THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN 1COR CHAPTER 7... ARE PREDICATED UPON ==>PERMISSION AND NOT BY COMMANDMENT,<===
WHICH MEANS THE APOSTLE PAUL HERE....
WAS GIVING HIS PERSONAL OPINION.
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Co 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
1Co 7:38 So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.
1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
1Co 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
THESE SCRIPTURES BELOW ..YOU HAVE TAKEN OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT
THEY DO NOT APPLY
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Jer 16:1 The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,
Jer 16:2 Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place.
Jer 16:3 For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
Jer 16:4 They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
IN CONCLUSION YOU ...
DON'T HAVE ANY COMMANDMENT
FROM GOD THAT A PRIEST SHOULD NOT MARRY...BE CELIBATE.
---

Remember, it's a discipline, not a dogmatic teaching of the faith. So, in your opinion, following the opinions of Jesus and St. Paul is wrong?

[Michael]

Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:

<quoted text>I got into working with sex offenders in the 80's. Yopu are correct.The state of treatment was horribly misguided and off track. Offenders were either taken at their word that they would stop or sent into psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is and remains totally ineffective with sex offenders. We had to fight with a very well known psychiatric institute to try to start sex offender treatment at our institution.They said standard treatment would be sufficient. We traveled to Massachusettes to talk to a man named Nick Groth, who was a pioneer in sopecialized sex offender treatment in those days. From there to see Fay Honey Knopp etc and we started a program.For adolescents. Specialized sex offender treatment can be effective.
My point is the Church did what others were doing during that time frame.
What is most important is what they are doing in the present. Hopefully they are using the top of the line treatment. Hopefully the culture of denial where it existed is being corrected.

Read about Richard Sipe......who spent over 25 years studying celebacy and sexual behavior of catholic clergy.

http://www.richardsipe.com/Comments/2005-12-3...

http://www.richardsipe.com/Comments/2012-04-0...

...http://www.richardsipe.com/ Media/2010-04-28-ncr.htm

[Anthony MN]

Dust Storm wrote:

<quoted text>
The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:
has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
has conducted annual audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine claims of abuse against priests.
No other organization even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/1...
cont.

Also, why has the Southern Baptist Convention faught so hard to not keep records of accused offenders in their ranks? Why have other protestant denominations refused to have investigations into their groups? My guess is that they'd rather keep the spotlight on the Catholic Church.

[Robert F]

4GVN wrote:

<quoted text>In light of your affirmation that Jesus paid for all of your sins at Calvery, and with the hope that you understand that that payment is accredited to ones account the moment they accept by faith the Saviour, how can you possibly believe in purgatory? And why would you want to? There is no such place,nor is it needed. Jesus paid it all in full.

4GVN good friend

When one accepts Christ as Saviour, does that automatically make null and void the effects of sin in this life, or the next?

Yes the wages of sin is death, but the effects of sin in our life still exists. And our souls become soiled with sin. Some may be instantly cured of say drug addiction, or adultery, or stealing, but in general the fight of the flesh and spirit is one until the day he dies. And the stains of guilt are deep.

So for instance, an alcoholic accepts Christ as Saviour, stops drinking, and then drinks again....(A sinner accepts Christ, but falls back into the ways of the natural man, but still accepts Christ as Saviour.)

This means that person is unclean, even though saved. And in Revelation 21:27, nothing unclean will enter heaven.

So on earth we are given the process of sanctification, being made cleaned. People achieve varying degrees of sanctification in this life. If that process has not removed entirely our uncleaness, how can one enter heaven?(In light of Rev 21:27)?

Only one way, and God puts us through a Final Process, of Purgatory, or trial by fire(the Holy Spirit), after we are dead.

As Christian, I see it more a joyful thing that God has provided us just such a hopeful process. For one's Final Destination is assurred, though it is more painful in the spirit after one has died....

[Michael]

hojo wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes---and the other 1.168 Billion Catholics around the world, including myself, Clay, Regina, Anthony and others on this forum ALSO KNOW THE TRUTH, over 2000 years of PROVEN historical and biblical TRUTH of Jesus Christ and His One True Apostolic Catholic Church--the Bride of Christ.-------You deny it!!(your choice)----
By-the-way-----Jethro8-----I hope that you are recovering and feeling better! Blessings!!!

Give it up HOJO!

You keep up your "one man band crusade" that gives bogus numbers of PRACTICING baptized catholics, you base your one true church on stories written by men that you haven't got the foggiest personal clue who the actual men were that wrote these stories, you don't know where these stories were written and you don't know the dates these stories were written as you continue with your one man drum beating crusade, another bunch of catholics have left the fold.

Keep believing we don't care, if you check the numbers on this forum you will find there are probably just as man EX-CATHOLICS as there are practicing catholics. Not good is it?



BUSTED!

[Anthony MN]

Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:

<quoted text>For the Orthodox the monastics are the front line against the dark forces.ike the soldiers that they are, they abstain from sex, from wealth, etc and fight the battle every day against the passions and against the Deceiver.I can do nothing but admire them and admire anyone who sacrifices for God.They humble me.

Me too Hermie. It's such a tremendous sacrifice. The vicious criticism coming from the non-Catholics here is a sad testimony of the unwillingness of so many to offer up in sacrifice their personal desires for the glory of God.

[confrinting with the word]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
We do have some (very few) non-convert married priests, I even know a widower priest with children and grandchildren. It's not an absolute. You seem to be unable to grasp the concept of men and women who VOLUNTARILY choose this path. Are you envious of people who can willingly do this?

~~~

FROM THE GLOBAL diabolical TRACK RECORD THAT HAS SURFACED ABOUT YOUR

ONE TRUE APOSTOLIC CHURCH,

evidently SOME OF YOUR PRIEST seem to be unable to grasp the concept of

WHAT being a TRUE SERVANT OF GOD IS.

BEING envious of people who can willingly do WHAT THEY HAVE DONE...

IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION.

THE BIBLE SAYS..

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

[Michael]

Dust Storm wrote:

<quoted text>
The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:
has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
has conducted annual audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine claims of abuse against priests.
No other organization even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/1...
cont.

DustStorm says ZERO tolerance!

You missed the train DustStorm.......the abuse stories in great numbers happened in the past. In the past where the church never acknowledged anything was wrong and ZERO tolerance was not invented yet.

You make up more excuses for criminal behavior. I will always be an advocate for abused or taken advantaged children/women or youth, while you will always be an advocate for finding more excuses for dirty old men in your church, who created this mess in the first place.

ZERO tolerance!(lol) 10 years too late!

UNBELIEVABLE!

[Anthony MN]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
Read about Richard Sipe......who spent over 25 years studying celebacy and sexual behavior of catholic clergy.
http://www.richardsipe.com/Comments/2005-12-3...
http://www.richardsipe.com/Comments/2012-04-0...
...http://www.richardsipe.com/ Media/2010-04-28-ncr.htm

I think you can sense your agenda slipping away here as people are tiring your pathtic drumbeat of the sex abuse topic. It must be like an alcoholic loooking at the last drop of vodka in his bottle, he's desperate for more, but he's out of cash. Take my advice Mike and find another forum, or better yet, do something nice for your wife today.

[Clay]

Dust Storm wrote:

<quoted text>
The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:
has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
has conducted annual audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine claims of abuse against priests.
No other organization even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/1...
cont.

Thank you D.S for taking the time to write these undeniable truths.
Maybe this will put to rest the daily barrage of sexual abuse posts directed at the Catholic Church.. Ya right NOT.

We all know these folks like Michael, have another agenda that has nothing to do with pedophila. They just use that topic as an excuse to be bigoted.

No evidence what-so -ever will tone this people.

[Dust Storm]

Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:

<quoted text>I got into working with sex offenders in the 80's. Yopu are correct.The state of treatment was horribly misguided and off track. Offenders were either taken at their word that they would stop or sent into psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is and remains totally ineffective with sex offenders. We had to fight with a very well known psychiatric institute to try to start sex offender treatment at our institution.They said standard treatment would be sufficient. We traveled to Massachusettes to talk to a man named Nick Groth, who was a pioneer in sopecialized sex offender treatment in those days. From there to see Fay Honey Knopp etc and we started a program.For adolescents. Specialized sex offender treatment can be effective.
My point is the Church did what others were doing during that time frame.
What is most important is what they are doing in the present. Hopefully they are using the top of the line treatment. Hopefully the culture of denial where it existed is being corrected.

Exactly raising awareness is important, and in order to do that the denial by many who just point at the Catholic church is a reality. What is best to do those found guilty and to prevent them from doing it again is a work in progress. I think we are going to be seeing a lot more lawsuits against schools. If we are going to go back decades on them then its going to cost tax payers alot of money to put people who are dead on trial, which is what is pursued against the church. In Colorado legislation was introduced solely against the Catholic church to prosecute such cases. If Bishops are now going to be held accountable and they should be if they become aware and follow what they are instructed. Then, that same accountablity needs to apply to administrators of every organization or clear cut policies, procedures and penalties put in place. It does no good to single out one organization. People who really care about preventing abuse, stopping it and minimizing the damage these people do realize that.

In one city they put into play any Catholic Priest who was accused even if found not guilty who moves into a neighborhood must give the residents notice. Note: Only Catholic and Not even convicted just accused. How do things like that make people look at the problem at large? It doesnt! I was talking to a guy the other day who thinks we should give pedophiles more chances. No he wasnt Catholic. I asked him how many should they get. He shrugged his shoulders.

[Michael]

1700 years of "CATHOLIC CHURCH DOCUMENTED" sexual abuse in the catholic church by its own clergy, with no ZERO tolerance EVER.

....again! DOCUMENTED by the catholic church itself, and catholics on this forum patting the church leaders on the back. SICKENING!

Learn the history of your church....below.

http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/wall-...

http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/execu...

[Anthony MN]

confrinting with the word wrote:

<quoted text>
~~~
FROM THE GLOBAL diabolical TRACK RECORD THAT HAS SURFACED ABOUT YOUR
ONE TRUE APOSTOLIC CHURCH,
evidently SOME OF YOUR PRIEST seem to be unable to grasp the concept of
WHAT being a TRUE SERVANT OF GOD IS.
BEING envious of people who can willingly do WHAT THEY HAVE DONE...
IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION.
THE BIBLE SAYS..
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

I feel so sorry for you. Hate and rage has taken you over and you don't know how to deal with it. I sincerely hope you have enough time to look within yourself and recognize it.

[Michael]

Clay wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you D.S for taking the time to write these undeniable truths.
Maybe this will put to rest the daily barrage of sexual abuse posts directed at the Catholic Church.. Ya right NOT.
We all know these folks like Michael, have another agenda that has nothing to do with pedophila. They just use that topic as an excuse to be bigoted.
No evidence what-so -ever will tone this people.

Here is your churches history below, documented! again! documented by your church itself through its many canon laws and papal documents.

http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/execu...

[Clay]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
DustStorm says ZERO tolerance!
You missed the train DustStorm.......the abuse stories in great numbers happened in the past. In the past where the church never acknowledged anything was wrong and ZERO tolerance was not invented yet.
You make up more excuses for criminal behavior. I will always be an advocate for abused or taken advantaged children/women or youth, while you will always be an advocate for finding more excuses for dirty old men in your church, who created this mess in the first place.
ZERO tolerance!(lol) 10 years too late!
UNBELIEVABLE!

You're equivalent to every pedophile puke on the planet.
Why?
Because you use this subject as a platform to launch your anti Catholic tirade. That's all. The statistics don't warrant your odd obsession of this subject. So why do you use an evil like child sexual abuse for your own personal vendetta?
Sick sick sick.
People would have to be blind to not see that you struggle with attraction to children. Its simple psychology 101.

[Clay]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
Here is your churches history below, documented! again! documented by your church itself through its many canon laws and papal documents.
http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/execu...

Richard Sipe? Yawn.

Got any other shocking breaking news? Lol

Busted!

[Michael]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Also, why has the Southern Baptist Convention faught so hard to not keep records of accused offenders in their ranks? Why have other protestant denominations refused to have investigations into their groups? My guess is that they'd rather keep the spotlight on the Catholic Church.

Anthony says.....

......Also, why has the Southern Baptist Convention faught so hard to not keep records of accused offenders in their ranks? Why have other protestant denominations refused to have investigations into their groups?

Michael says....

Lets put them all in jail anthony. Right? Any convicted protestant clergy, catholic clergy and any clergy who lied, and covered up these crimes as well........right Anthony?

If priests, ministers, rabbis, catholic bishops who LIED and COVERED up to protect the criminals they too should be charged........agree Anthony?

[Clay]

Michael wrote:

1700 years of "CATHOLIC CHURCH DOCUMENTED" sexual abuse in the catholic church by its own clergy, with no ZERO tolerance EVER.
....again! DOCUMENTED by the catholic church itself, and catholics on this forum patting the church leaders on the back. SICKENING!
Learn the history of your church....below.
http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/wall-...
http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/execu...

Your image on this thread is that of a troubled individual Mike.
Do you realize how not normal it is to post about this subject around the clock ...everyday for the last two yrs.

I could be wrong, but you even went as far to say you were molested by a Priest. I won't bother going back two yrs to find the post.. I know you later denied it- so I have to take your word for it now. After all, you seem like an honest person. Lol

[Dust Storm]

Anthony MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Also, why has the Southern Baptist Convention faught so hard to not keep records of accused offenders in their ranks? Why have other protestant denominations refused to have investigations into their groups? My guess is that they'd rather keep the spotlight on the Catholic Church.

Well, that may be true for some, but that it would shine the light on them and cost them alot of money and shame and theyre would be alot of people who never really got saved, but they can know for sure as the saying goes. They were never really srong in the faith anyway as KM would say. As I have said before the people in here don't really care about the abused. Its more important to have a false card to play living in a delusional world of denial.