Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 548,726
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#407547 Dec 7, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
4GVN good friend
When one accepts Christ as Saviour, does that automatically make null and void the effects of sin in this life, or the next?
Yes the wages of sin is death, but the effects of sin in our life still exists. And our souls become soiled with sin. Some may be instantly cured of say drug addiction, or adultery, or stealing, but in general the fight of the flesh and spirit is one until the day he dies. And the stains of guilt are deep.
So for instance, an alcoholic accepts Christ as Saviour, stops drinking, and then drinks again....(A sinner accepts Christ, but falls back into the ways of the natural man, but still accepts Christ as Saviour.)
This means that person is unclean, even though saved. And in Revelation 21:27, nothing unclean will enter heaven.
So on earth we are given the process of sanctification, being made cleaned. People achieve varying degrees of sanctification in this life. If that process has not removed entirely our uncleaness, how can one enter heaven?(In light of Rev 21:27)?
Only one way, and God puts us through a Final Process, of Purgatory, or trial by fire(the Holy Spirit), after we are dead.
As Christian, I see it more a joyful thing that God has provided us just such a hopeful process. For one's Final Destination is assurred, though it is more painful in the spirit after one has died....
I am afraid that you have a very flawed view of who is able to wash us from the penalty of sin and remove them as far as the eaxt is from the west. CHRIST'S SACRIFICE was ALL that was needed. He does not need the help of a RCC invention to make us clean and KEEP us clean. I sincerely hope that you come to that level of faith in HIS FINISHED WORK. And are able to place all of your faith in HIM. IT IS FINISHED. The SACRIFICE for our sins has been completed by a spotless LAMB OF GOD. There is NOTHING lacking. There is no more payment for sin. JESUS PAID IT ALL.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407548 Dec 7, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I think I'm the only one who responds to him and free.
I guess because I'm lazy and they're to easy to refute.
I'm done now. The debate is over and the winner is clear.
CLAY says.......The debate is over and the winner is clear.

MICHAEL says......You know Clay as you stated, your church leaders around the world, lied, deceived, and covered up the most disgusting sins immaginable since the inception of the church, and you say there is a winner?...... UNBELIEVABLE!

I can't understand why you Clay would defend an organization, that did not remedy the worst problem immaginable that went on for 1 thousand 7 hundred years.

Can you even imagine the thousands of adult men who went to their graves over the centuries who lived a life of pain, suffering, guilt and horror at the hands of these men when these victims were children, and the worst part is their own famiies took the words of the clergy and not their own children. Nothing more horrible than that. 1700 years of pain.

http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/execu...

ReginaM

Lakewood, NJ

#407549 Dec 7, 2012
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>For the Orthodox the monastics are the front line against the dark forces.ike the soldiers that they are, they abstain from sex, from wealth, etc and fight the battle every day against the passions and against the Deceiver.I can do nothing but admire them and admire anyone who sacrifices for God.They humble me.
I admire them also. If I'm not mistaken, most if not all Orthodox Bishops are from the ranks of celibate monks. Have you ever read anything of the Desert Fathers and Mothers? They're wonderful.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#407550 Dec 7, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Why do yo fight so hard to keep from answering the question? Could it be that in your heart you see that there is indeed a problem? I will ask you AGAIN FOR AN ANSWER. The RCC allowed married prests for 1000 yrs. THEN they decided to chane th requirements for priests for the next 1000 yrs. WHICH POSITION IS 'RIGHT'? Which position is biblical? Come on Anthony, you can do it. ANSWER the question, PLEEZ :)
I'm going to give you the benfit of the doubt and assume you have a sincere desire to know the history of clerical celibacy and aren't belaboring this just to argue with me. The following is from wiki and it will hopefully meet your standard of an unbiased source;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibac... (Catholic_Church)
4GVN

Wentzville, MO

#407551 Dec 7, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry you don't like my answers, but you need to deal with it. So you think celibacy is wrong. Ok. Don't be Catholc. No one's forcing you. These wonderful men and women intentionally choose the path they take. They feel God calls them to this life. I'm friends with the deacon in our Church. He's an ordained "man of God" and he has a wife and three kids. That is an option for any man who wants it.
But your constant stream of insults and accusations tell me there's something else bothering you. If I was insecure in my faith I might spend all my time attacking another faith trying to reconcile the doubts in my mind. Is that a possibility?
This seems to be the pattern with you, Anthony. When you are uncomfortable answering a question you try to divert by going on the offensive and attacking one for asking questions. I leave the question out there for any one brave enough to honestly address it. Obviously, you are not that man.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407552 Dec 7, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I know for certain, that every Catholic on here has stated their disgust with the guilty clergy and those who covered for them.
Some, like myself, said "hang em".
I know you know this was said by me, because we talked about it.
Yet, when we finally respond to your 20,000 posts, you accuse us for defending the Church and not the victim.
Face it, nothing will satisfy you til the Church closes its doors and disappears.
Well, it must make your blood boil to know the Church will be around long after your dead and gone. We had Michaels spewing anti Catholic junk in every decade since Saint Peter. We're still here.
CLAY says.......

...Yet, when we finally respond to your 20,000 posts, you accuse us for defending the Church and not the victim.

MICHAEL says....

....Everyday thousands of americans INCLUDING CATHOLICS write letters of concern to their cities mayors, their congressmen, and even the president of the United States expressing their issues.

I have yet to hear of any catholic poster on here ever write to their bishops or even parish priest asking why LIES, DECEIT and COVERUPS occured in the catholic church.

Cathoilics are SILENT when it comes to being pro-active in contacting their church leaders. All they do now is pat the church on the back for this new ZERO tolerance. Where was your voice when the shite was flying, when victims needed support? NO WHERE!........that is what is disgusting!

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#407553 Dec 7, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I feel so sorry for you. Hate and rage has taken you over and you don't know how to deal with it. I sincerely hope you have enough time to look within yourself and recognize it.
~~~

I guess you don't understand that tough love,

and the necessity of confronting error with truth...

NO HATRED NO RAGE,... MOTIVATES.... MY POSTING THE TRUTH...

OF GOD'S WORD.

You can either face the truth now..and turn to God and

obey His word...NOW

OR

FACE the truth LATER

WHEN YOU STAND BEFORE HIM.

Your placebo will not stand ..in judgment..

Your choice.

Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407554 Dec 7, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I've often wondered if it might be a good idea to have the authorities go through Mike's computer...
Nothing but support of victims of crime. Too bad your not on board Anthony.

Your a big talker on here but always fall short when its time to be pro-active. Put a straw in your mouth, and your head back in the sand with the rest..........thats it!

Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#407555 Dec 7, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>This seems to be the pattern with you, Anthony. When you are uncomfortable answering a question you try to divert by going on the offensive and attacking one for asking questions. I leave the question out there for any one brave enough to honestly address it. Obviously, you are not that man.
Thanks. I'm not uncomfortable in the least. Neither is "wrong". It's a choice.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#407556 Dec 7, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
I guess you don't understand that tough love,
and the necessity of confronting error with truth...
NO HATRED NO RAGE,... MOTIVATES.... MY POSTING THE TRUTH...
OF GOD'S WORD.
You can either face the truth now..and turn to God and
obey His word...NOW
OR
FACE the truth LATER
WHEN YOU STAND BEFORE HIM.
Your placebo will not stand ..in judgment..
Your choice.
I have heard your version of the "truth" as you interpret it. I reject your interpretation. I'm completely convinced of the Catholic interpretation. Let your mind be at ease with the fact that you have done what you think God is calling you to do. In other words, to use a protestant slogan, "let go and let God". I'll keep praying for your conversion.
Fun Facts

Lake, MI

#407557 Dec 7, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
I have pasted the above scriptures here...
You left out a KEY VERSE in your attempting to make your point...
NOTE
verse
1Co 7:6 But I speak this by ==>permission,<=== and
not of===>commandment. <===
PERMISSION DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN 1 COR 7:6
G4774
&#963;&#965;&#947; &#947;&#957;&#969; &#769;&#956;&#951;
suggno&#772;me&#772;
soong-gno'-may
From a compound of G4862 and G1097; fellow knowledge, that is, concession:- permission.
COMMANDMENT DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN 1COR 7:6
G2003
&#949;&#787;&#960; &#953;&#964;&#945; &#947;&#951;&#769;
epitage&#772;
ep-ee-tag-ay'
From G2004; an injunction or decree; by implication authoritativeness:- authority, commandment.
ALL YOUR SCRIPTURES THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN 1COR CHAPTER 7... ARE PREDICATED UPON ==>PERMISSION AND NOT BY COMMANDMENT,<===
WHICH MEANS THE APOSTLE PAUL HERE....
WAS GIVING HIS PERSONAL OPINION.
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Co 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
1Co 7:38 So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.
1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
1Co 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
THESE SCRIPTURES BELOW ..YOU HAVE TAKEN OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT
THEY DO NOT APPLY
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Jer 16:1 The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,
Jer 16:2 Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place.
Jer 16:3 For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
Jer 16:4 They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
IN CONCLUSION YOU ...
DON'T HAVE ANY COMMANDMENT
FROM GOD THAT A PRIEST SHOULD NOT MARRY...BE CELIBATE.
---
You may have overlooked...
http://bible.cc/matthew/19-12.htm
Questions?
http://avemariaradio.net/catholic-online-radi...
ReginaM

Lakewood, NJ

#407558 Dec 7, 2012
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Regina,I had the priviledge years ago to spend a year and several months in South Wales,the city of Swansea.Like everywhere else in Europe and the Americas,a given city has a hodge podge of many Christian churches,all different affiliations ans so on.The college I attended there was an evangelical one,it was not basically any one particular Christian denomination,although it never was referred to as non-denominational,as the Brits view that subject differently than we do.
I can recall that not more than three persons were part of one particular denomination,but that almost every group in the Prot world was represented.We had :Anglicans,Presbyterians,Congr egationalists,Evangelicals(and Pentecostals)
all under the same roof,all missionary minded.There were some differences in the way people viewed baptism and communion,but for the most part we all were Christ centered,Bible oriented,and believing in the basics of the Christian faith:HIS life,Incarnation,teachings,suf fering,Crucifixion,Death and RESURRECTION.We all read the same Bible,and worked together in ministries,which included going to hospitals,prisons,street ministries,and the local churches.
Although we might have our differences,and knew about them,we made it our goal to work together as a common goal to be a blessing from the College to the Community.And we saw the fruit of our joint efforts as well.The Anglicans were much like the Catholics so we saw that tradition on a regular basis.Also at times we went to the Liturgical Mass of the Anglicans which is Catholic,minus the Papacy.Although as evangelicals we did not make a practice of going with our Anglican brothers to their mass,we never argued with them about their beliefs in regards to Communion,which is typically Catholic.
Now you have to realize Regina,that we all were confident in our own experience with Christ,and the college was basically evangelical,our services were plain and simple,not Anglican at all.But we made it our choice to serve Christ and to work together with the Anglicans who were considered Catholics.A priest from the community spoke to the men's groups on several occasions,and he wore the Roman Collar,and preached and taughty,with us being totally respectful to his position,and seeing him as a brother in Christ.
I'm not questioning your love of God and agree that there are a multitude of different expressions of Christianity but, again, are there supposed to be? Did Christ and the apostles preach one truth, or variations on the theme? You talk about differences in baptism and communion as if they were trivialities. Both were instituted by Christ as was the priesthood. It's not our right to tweak them so that they're more in line with our comfort level. Christianity is a package. If the apostolic faith is picked apart, we'll keep a little of this, discard a little of that, then what have you got left? A watered down version at best, completely unrecognizable at worst. Was this our dear Lord's intention? The Christian life is one of faith, obedience, and sacrifice. When did pride, the "I know better than Christ and the apostles" attitude come into it, because at some point it most certainly did or else there wouldn't be any different expressions.

Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407559 Dec 7, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm going to give you the benfit of the doubt and assume you have a sincere desire to know the history of clerical celibacy and aren't belaboring this just to argue with me. The following is from wiki and it will hopefully meet your standard of an unbiased source;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibac... (Catholic_Church)
Miss Anthony said the other day to ReginaM. Can't trust whats on the internet. What does Miss Anthony do? Post from the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibac... (Catholic_Church

An report 9 years old, from cities around america of priests questioned on wanting dialogue on celebacy.

Even priests from PATTERSON NJ responded......

http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/survey/

I will find a current study. We do know that 160 catholic priests JUST in the city of Milwuakee sent a letter to their bishop demanding discussions on celebacy.

Change is good! thats what makes america grow!
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407560 Dec 7, 2012
Roman catholic bishops in america stated just 2 years ago that only 1/4 of roman catholics attend mandatory sunday mass. That upwards of 85% of roman catholics use or have used birth control the church says is sinful. Millions of catholics are divorced and have new spouses or partners. Its obvious and clear that the actual followers of catholicism is MUCH MUCH smaller than the 1.168 Billion stated by a poster.(lol) UNBELIEVABLE!

Imagine a big company like GM and only 25% of the workers going to work when required.

That would be DEVASTING!
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407561 Dec 7, 2012


Why are so many dedicated catholics today not taking the steps to the priest/sisterhood as in the past? What is going on in the church that has turned these people away? It must be something.

http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/optcel/fact-s...

Its time that roman catholics become pro-active instead of sitting on their hands and being defensive.

The future is yours, but it will not be without support of catholics themselves. Just more SILENCE!
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407562 Dec 7, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I know for certain, that every Catholic on here has stated their disgust with the guilty clergy and those who covered for them.
Some, like myself, said "hang em".
I know you know this was said by me, because we talked about it.
Yet, when we finally respond to your 20,000 posts, you accuse us for defending the Church and not the victim.
Face it, nothing will satisfy you til the Church closes its doors and disappears.
Well, it must make your blood boil to know the Church will be around long after your dead and gone. We had Michaels spewing anti Catholic junk in every decade since Saint Peter. We're still here.
Where did Clay go?

What happened to Gened, Catholic Mom, Sophie and the others? Have they given up?
Clay

Chicago, IL

#407563 Dec 7, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
CLAY says.......
...Yet, when we finally respond to your 20,000 posts, you accuse us for defending the Church and not the victim.
MICHAEL says....
....Everyday thousands of americans INCLUDING CATHOLICS write letters of concern to their cities mayors, their congressmen, and even the president of the United States expressing their issues.
I have yet to hear of any catholic poster on here ever write to their bishops or even parish priest asking why LIES, DECEIT and COVERUPS occured in the catholic church.
Cathoilics are SILENT when it comes to being pro-active in contacting their church leaders. All they do now is pat the church on the back for this new ZERO tolerance. Where was your voice when the shite was flying, when victims needed support? NO WHERE!........that is what is disgusting!
Ok, one more response and that's it.

1. Why would I write to my Bishop today? DS clearly showed the Church is leading the way and new protocol is in place to ensure that there will never be a cover up again.

2. You cite 1700 yrs of abuse (from none other than anti Catholic former priest Richard Sipe) as a way of blowing up this issue to make it seem far far worse than it is or ever was! I don't understand how you can look at the statistics, and act like this is bigger than anything you ever heard?
Its clear as can be that you WANT it to be big. You WANT this on the front page everyday. You WANT everyone in the world to think of the Catholic Church as a Pedophile ring - even though you know that's ridiculous. You know the truth.
Honestly, you're one of the sickest individuals I ever came across. Its indescribable how ignorant you are. I never thought anyone would use child sexual abuse - which is one of the most evil acts imaginable - as a personal platform cuz you don't believe in God, and want everyone else to not as well.
Unbelievable sick.
Give it up. You're embarrassing yourself.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407564 Dec 7, 2012
Celebacy!

http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/history.htm

Council Elvira 306 AD

A priest who sleeps with his wife the night before will lose his job.(lol)

...and this is the history of the one true church that Clay brags about.... above?

Fifteenth Century
Transition; 50% of priests are married and accepted by the people.

Interesting, most catholics today believe in optional celebacy.

BUSTED!

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#407565 Dec 7, 2012
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
All sin is against God and must be confessed to Him.
Psalm 32:3-5
3 When I kept silent,
my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
4 For day and night
your hand was heavy on me;
my strength was sapped
as in the heat of summer.
5 ~~~~~Then I acknowledged my sin to you
and did not cover up my iniquity (sin.)
I said,I will confess
my transgressions (sin) to the Lord.
And you forgave
the guilt of my sin.~~~~~
What a lovely god!

2 Samuel 12:11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#407566 Dec 7, 2012
Truth wrote:
Psalm 32:2
2 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord does not count against them
and in whose spirit is no deceit.
I do love this game!

Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

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