Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 653698 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#407319 Dec 6, 2012
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but you said they choose not to repent of future sins, do we agree then that that is impossible, with the Holy Spirit guiding the person to not be lead to repentance?
You WILL sin in the future. If the Holy Spirit is guiding you and it is impossible for you to fail to repent, how can the Holy Spirit also be guiding you to sin in the first place?

You are not a puppet. You have free will. You can be both guided by the Holy Spirit AND also reject the Holy Spirit's guidance.
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#407320 Dec 6, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Dust Storm
Peace
I understand and sympathize with your struggle....
I am coming to understand that when the Gentile mind, which is unconformed to Christ comes to a realization of salvation is in Jesus Christ alone and accepts this Gift, it is the Great Epiphany, they become part of a journey on this earth, a pilgrim.
There are times when we feel anchored(at rest) in this voyage, and also when we are underway....That sense of being at anchor is both salvation and sanctification.
But we must voyage on...,on a pilgrimage, and we carry the Anchor of our Faith, with us. Then comes in the difficult storms, and monotonous time which strengthens our faith, and is sanctification in a process.
Most often in this journey we are not aware of carrying our cross daily. But it still happens. And so we find it easy to remember the big moments, which are like epiphanies in in our sanctification process.
Robert,

What I am most happy about is that you have been led back to God. You are chosen and hopefully you can help others grow with you. How often do we see those in the bible who had moments of deep doubt and darkness in both the OT and New. Mother Teresa relates well to what you say here. May you receive blessings beyond your trials.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#407321 Dec 6, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="hojo"
Daily Mass, the Eucharist, Prayer, Bible Readings, etc.---are ALL giving "glory, adoration, respect, homage, reverence, veneration and PRAISE to Almighty God HIMSELF and to HIS SON Jesus Christ, ALL which is manifested in and through Our Lords Catholic Church--of which HIS bride---IS---the Church!......... Thanks KayMarie and Gods Blessing to you and your family during this season of Advent!!
**********
You are welcome, and may your Christmas be the most blessed ever!
I am no stranger to glory, adoration, reverence, etc. to Almighty God. I am part of THE CHURCH which is His bride. I call it the Invisible Church for it's chapel cannot be seen by man's eye...and it has multitude of parts from EVERY TRIBE AND TONGUE AND NATION in it. WE are His temple, the temple of the Holy Ghost.
Every Baptist, Methodist, etc. is not my brother/sister, but all of those who truly love HIM ARE MY FAMILY...His bride. Together, Peter says, we are Living Stones, and make up the REAL church.
KayMarie
Thanks---we may disagree on Christs definition of His Church, in Matthew 16, which has Bishops, priests, elders and deacons, Acts 2 -from Jesus' 1st Church in Antioch ---and----for over 2000 years----HOWEVER----there is "much" in our mutual faith to "unite us as One in Jesus Christ and in His love! AMEN!!
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#407322 Dec 6, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Robert,
What I am most happy about is that you have been led back to God. You are chosen and hopefully you can help others grow with you. How often do we see those in the bible who had moments of deep doubt and darkness in both the OT and New. Mother Teresa relates well to what you say here. May you receive blessings beyond your trials.
Amen!!!
Pad

Fishers, IN

#407323 Dec 6, 2012
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
No where in those verses is marriage a requirement.
"Admittedly, there's no hint in the New Testament of celibacy being mandatory either among the apostles or those they ordained. But we have ample warrant in the words of Christ and the writings of Paul that celibacy is a higher calling than marriage. Christ Himself was celibate, and the Incarnation took place, so to speak, in the context of Mary and Joseph's abstention from sexual relations. Pope Benedict XVI has written eloquently about how Mary's virginity is really a condition of spiritual fruitfulness. At one point, the disciples ask Christ if it is "expedient not to marry?" He replies that "not all can accept this teaching; but those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born so...and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let him accept it who can" (Mt 19:10-12)."
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/a...
I know I've mentioned this before, but am conducting a little experiment today...celibacy is a requirement for Bishops in the Orthodox Church and if a priest is not already married at the time of his ordination, he must also remain celibate. I'm curious, what are your thoughts about this??
It is fitting to follow one's own conscience here.If one chooses to remain celibate and serve Christ he or she is not bound to ever marry or follow the way of everyone else as it were.But it seems that Catholic and Orthodox churches have their rules on the priesthood,so we have to let them do as they do,and not give them our opinion,as they will continue to serve Christ in whatever suits them,to be celibate or to marry.

Evangelicals for the most part marry,and a young man who is single and a preacher is under much pressure to marry if he pastors in a church.There are not too many who will say they would rather remain single,as married couples do very well as pastors of churches,giving a great insight as a married couple to the many pressures of married life.It seems that God has allowed the many expressions of Christian church life to reach all different facets of humanity.Many people are not attracted to the Catholic Church,and vice versa,but there are enough different expressions and traditions that seem to meet the needs of countless numbers of people who need Christ and are changed by His powerful love.

So all expressions of Christian endeavor can in a wide sense meet the needs of many different people,at a given time,under many circumstances.
4GVN

Saint Louis, MO

#407324 Dec 6, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok. You seem to think you're the debate moderator, so I will do my best.
"'How many of your sins did Jesus die for?"
All of them.
"How many did He take upon Himself and carry to the cross."
All of them.
"Was Jesus payment enough?"
Yes.
"Is there more to be paid?"
No, not by Him.
"Can we in any way add to the sacrificial payment that Jesus made?"
" And what did Jesus mean when He stated that "IT IS FINISHED?"
Very good article here by Jimmy Akin, a convert to Catholicism from protestant evangelical fundamentalism. Please take the time to read it (I hope you don't stop at the first paragraph like you usually do, as that would tend to enforce my suspicion that you're not really looking for a sincere debate):
http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/how2purg....
Now, if you would do me the honor of answering MY question;
Are all of your future sins already forgiven by Christ if you choose not to repent of them?
NO is a correct answer. In view of your previous answers, how can you believe that there is and amount of unpaid debt that Jesus did not cover?
In answer to your question, We must understand that all of our sins were in the future at the time of Christ's crucifiction. The debt was paid in full for all of my (future) sins. The account was accredited (PAID IN FULL) the day, the hour, the moment I trusted in Him and the payment(gift) He so freely offers.
As to you for me to read the article you mention, no I really don't have the time or desire to chase after every article you post. They are long a laborious and really a waste of time.
If you would care to post the points you think deserve attention I will try to respond to those. By the same token, I don't expect you to chase after the unlimited articles and sites I could direct you to.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#407325 Dec 6, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not calling you names, you are, in fact, ignorant of Catholic teaching. And you lie about it. I know this because I know Catholic teaching. You know it because you mis-represent it all the time.
In your sad little world you know deep down that you MUST prove Catholicism wrong, because if it's right, you're in deep trouble. While you scream and holler and codemn Catholics (with your fingers stuck in your ears), you do it out of fear and rage, not love and concern.
I know who and what you are confrinting, and so does God.
I hope for your sake it's not too late for you because I do care about your eternal soul.
~~~

MORE DANCING AROUND...

MY SOUL IS SECURE FOR I AM SIMPLY STANDING ON THE PROMISES OF GOD...

Isaiah PROPHESIED

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isa 53:5 But

1.he was wounded for our transgressions,

2.he was bruised for our iniquities:

3.the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and

4.with his stripes we are healed.

JESUS SAID

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

I CAME TO HIM AND HE HAS KEPT HIS WORD...

THE APOSTLE PAUL WROTE

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and
shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I CALLED UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD AND HE SAVED ME.

Acts 3:16
And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know:(d) yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

(d) Because he believed on him who was raised from the dead, whose name he heard about from us.

I AM SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH...

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I DON'T NEED YOUR RITUALS AND EXERCISES..

~~~~

WHERE IS THE PROMISE.. SECURITY...OF YOUR HOPE OF ETERNAL..LIFE

IS IT IN YOU CATECHISM?

IS IT IN MARY?...

IS IT IN YOU ICONS?..IDOLS..STATUES...

IS IT IN YOUR SAINTS?...

IS IT IN YOUR ROSARY?...

IS IT IN YOU POPE?...

IS IT IN YOU CHURCH?...

IS IT IN YOUR EUCHARIST?

AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE UNESSARY CALTHESENTICS THAT HAS BEEN ADDED TO GOD'S ETERNAL PLAN OF SALVATION

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#407326 Dec 6, 2012
who="ReginaM"
No where in those verses is marriage a requirement.
"Admittedly, there's no hint in the New Testament of celibacy being mandatory either among the apostles or those they ordained. But we have ample warrant in the words of Christ and the writings of Paul that celibacy is a higher calling than marriage. Christ Himself was celibate, and the Incarnation took place, so to speak, in the context of Mary and Joseph's abstention from sexual relations. Pope Benedict XVI has written eloquently about how Mary's virginity is really a condition of spiritual fruitfulness. At one point, the disciples ask Christ if it is "expedient not to marry?" He replies that "not all can accept this teaching; but those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born so...and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let him accept it who can" (Mt 19:10-12)."
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/a...
I know I've mentioned this before, but am conducting a little experiment today...celibacy is a requirement for Bishops in the Orthodox Church and if a priest is not already married at the time of his ordination, he must also remain celibate. I'm curious, what are your thoughts about this??

**********

I trust that you are well, and that the situation is improving for those of you that were in Sandy's path.

Mankind's first command from God was to 'be fruitful and multiply'. The 'demand' is strong on mankind so that no power has been able to overcome it...else humanity would be in danger.

Jesus made it plain that everyone could not receive the celibate condition...only those to whom it was given. He did not present it as a requirement.

I've been married sixty years. I am well aware of the hindrances we humans present to each other when it comes to serving the Lord. However, those OUTSIDE my marriage have presented just as many hindrances. Marriage presents much aid, and its experiences have increased my under-
standing of the Christian experience. It has helped me to help others, married or not. The Christian walk, after all, is where we learn to walk in fellowship with others...and is especially important in marriage.

Paul said to LET the deacons/bishops be married to one wife. ALLOW them.
Requiring celibacy of a man/woman, is not 'allowing' them.

Joseph and Mary abstained from physical intimacy so that the SEED was not polluted.

My thoughts are that if a man wishes to devote himself to the ministry, AND his devotion is sufficient to keep him from failing that ministry, I am in agreement. It must not be a choice made in ignorance.

KayMarie
4GVN

Saint Louis, MO

#407327 Dec 6, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Celibacy is Church Practice, Not Dogma
Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.
But Jesus never made it a (requirement) for the pastorate. It was a choice he gave to each individual. It was not to be mandated by the church or anyone else.
And what kind of double standard is it for the RCC to mandate it for thier priests UNLESS they come from another denomination, and have married and then it is acceptable. If it is good for the goose?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#407328 Dec 6, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:

Now, if you would do me the honor of answering MY question;
Are all of your future sins already forgiven by Christ if you choose not to repent of them?

**********

It is understood that 'the just shall LIVE by faith'. Also,'whatsoever is not of faith is SIN'.

Unrepented sin is rebellion. Though all my sins are covered by the blood of His sacrifice...the ones I do not repent ARE NOT COVERED.

KayMarie
ReginaM

Point Pleasant Beach, NJ

#407329 Dec 6, 2012
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>It is fitting to follow one's own conscience here.If one chooses to remain celibate and serve Christ he or she is not bound to ever marry or follow the way of everyone else as it were.But it seems that Catholic and Orthodox churches have their rules on the priesthood,so we have to let them do as they do,and not give them our opinion,as they will continue to serve Christ in whatever suits them,to be celibate or to marry.
Evangelicals for the most part marry,and a young man who is single and a preacher is under much pressure to marry if he pastors in a church.There are not too many who will say they would rather remain single,as married couples do very well as pastors of churches,giving a great insight as a married couple to the many pressures of married life.It seems that God has allowed the many expressions of Christian church life to reach all different facets of humanity.Many people are not attracted to the Catholic Church,and vice versa,but there are enough different expressions and traditions that seem to meet the needs of countless numbers of people who need Christ and are changed by His powerful love.
So all expressions of Christian endeavor can in a wide sense meet the needs of many different people,at a given time,under many circumstances.
This is all very nice, Dan, and in a sense I agree with you since the reality is that there *are* many different expressions. However, it begs the question: was there supposed to be? In faithfulness to the Gospel, with a clear conscience, can you honestly say it was Christ's intention to have different expressions of His truth? I can't...and I'm not talking about practices, rituals, etc.
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#407330 Dec 6, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
MORE DANCING AROUND...
MY SOUL IS SECURE FOR I AM SIMPLY STANDING ON THE PROMISES OF GOD...
Isaiah PROPHESIED
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But
1.he was wounded for our transgressions,
2.he was bruised for our iniquities:
3.the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and
4.with his stripes we are healed.
JESUS SAID
Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
I CAME TO HIM AND HE HAS KEPT HIS WORD...
THE APOSTLE PAUL WROTE
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and
shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
I CALLED UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD AND HE SAVED ME.
Acts 3:16
And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know:(d) yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
(d) Because he believed on him who was raised from the dead, whose name he heard about from us.
I AM SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH...
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
I DON'T NEED YOUR RITUALS AND EXERCISES..
~~~~
WHERE IS THE PROMISE.. SECURITY...OF YOUR HOPE OF ETERNAL..LIFE
IS IT IN YOU CATECHISM?
IS IT IN MARY?...
IS IT IN YOU ICONS?..IDOLS..STATUES...
IS IT IN YOUR SAINTS?...
IS IT IN YOUR ROSARY?...
IS IT IN YOU POPE?...
IS IT IN YOU CHURCH?...
IS IT IN YOUR EUCHARIST?
AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE UNESSARY CALTHESENTICS THAT HAS BEEN ADDED TO GOD'S ETERNAL PLAN OF SALVATION
More anger, bitterness, hate and bigotry. You feel it in the depths of your soul. You are aware of it but can't stop it or contain it.

I repeat, I know who and what you are confrinting, and so does God.
I hope for your sake it's not too late for you because I do care about your eternal soul.

I'll continue to pray for you. God bless.
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#407331 Dec 6, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text> But Jesus never made it a (requirement) for the pastorate. It was a choice he gave to each individual. It was not to be mandated by the church or anyone else.
And what kind of double standard is it for the RCC to mandate it for thier priests UNLESS they come from another denomination, and have married and then it is acceptable. If it is good for the goose?
It certainly is a choice. A man or woman, individually, makes a conscious choice to forego marriage and devote their lives entirely to God. In the case of protestant converts, the Church recognizes that we cannot break the marriage bond that already exists. If they take their vows while BEFORE marriage, they cannot later get married.
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#407332 Dec 6, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
Anthony MN wrote:
Now, if you would do me the honor of answering MY question;
Are all of your future sins already forgiven by Christ if you choose not to repent of them?
**********
It is understood that 'the just shall LIVE by faith'. Also,'whatsoever is not of faith is SIN'.
Unrepented sin is rebellion. Though all my sins are covered by the blood of His sacrifice...the ones I do not repent ARE NOT COVERED.
KayMarie
Yes, but 4gvn says that ALL sins, past, presnt and future are covered no matter what. It sounds like you disagree with him.
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#407333 Dec 6, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>NO is a correct answer. In view of your previous answers, how can you believe that there is and amount of unpaid debt that Jesus did not cover?
In answer to your question, We must understand that all of our sins were in the future at the time of Christ's crucifiction. The debt was paid in full for all of my (future) sins. The account was accredited (PAID IN FULL) the day, the hour, the moment I trusted in Him and the payment(gift) He so freely offers.
As to you for me to read the article you mention, no I really don't have the time or desire to chase after every article you post. They are long a laborious and really a waste of time.
If you would care to post the points you think deserve attention I will try to respond to those. By the same token, I don't expect you to chase after the unlimited articles and sites I could direct you to.
I always read your articles, all of them, no matter how long and tedious. I don't think they're a waste of time because I sincerely want to know what you're taught. I wish you felt the same way.
4GVN

Saint Louis, MO

#407334 Dec 6, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
Anthony MN wrote:
Now, if you would do me the honor of answering MY question;
Are all of your future sins already forgiven by Christ if you choose not to repent of them?
**********
It is understood that 'the just shall LIVE by faith'. Also,'whatsoever is not of faith is SIN'.
Unrepented sin is rebellion. Though all my sins are covered by the blood of His sacrifice...the ones I do not repent ARE NOT COVERED.
KayMarie
KayMarie, please take the time to sincerely and PRAYERFULLY consider your response. DID Jesus pay for ALL of your (future) sins on the cross? Was it a (FULL) payment? Therefore are they not all(covered)?
I do understand the donfusion, but consider for a moment what your reply would entail. If (any) unconfessed sin was not (covered) we would be in danger of hell at any moment in our lives. In fact we could never be confident of our salvation because it would all hinge on the last moments before death. And what of the sins we commit(falling short of the Glory of God) that we are not even aware of. The scripture tells us that "to him that knows to to good and does it not, to him it is sin." How many times do we as christians fail to to that 'good' thing that we have thought(I should do this, or I should do that), but we just never get around to it. Scripture telles us that that is sin. If that is true and as you say since we did not repent of it we are lost, because that sin was not covered. If that were true we would have NO POSSIBILITY of ever reaching heaven. JESUS PAID IT ALL. They are ALL covered! And we were given the GIFT of eternal life the moment we trusted in that finished work(completed and paid in full) by Jesus. I believe taht what you are misunderstanding is chastisement."whom the Lord loves(His children) He chastises" to bring us back to where He wants us to be. God does not chastise anothers children. Only His own.
ReginaM

Point Pleasant Beach, NJ

#407335 Dec 6, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
**********
I trust that you are well, and that the situation is improving for those of you that were in Sandy's path.
Mankind's first command from God was to 'be fruitful and multiply'. The 'demand' is strong on mankind so that no power has been able to overcome it...else humanity would be in danger.
Jesus made it plain that everyone could not receive the celibate condition...only those to whom it was given. He did not present it as a requirement.
I've been married sixty years. I am well aware of the hindrances we humans present to each other when it comes to serving the Lord. However, those OUTSIDE my marriage have presented just as many hindrances. Marriage presents much aid, and its experiences have increased my under-
standing of the Christian experience. It has helped me to help others, married or not. The Christian walk, after all, is where we learn to walk in fellowship with others...and is especially important in marriage.
Paul said to LET the deacons/bishops be married to one wife. ALLOW them.
Requiring celibacy of a man/woman, is not 'allowing' them.
Joseph and Mary abstained from physical intimacy so that the SEED was not polluted.
My thoughts are that if a man wishes to devote himself to the ministry, AND his devotion is sufficient to keep him from failing that ministry, I am in agreement. It must not be a choice made in ignorance.
KayMarie
Yes, I'm well, thank you for asking. Please do keep the many who are still suffering from the storm in your prayers, particularly those who lost their primary residence and are struggling financially.

Your answer is quite a bit different from your previous posts, Kay. The priesthood is a choice, an answer to God's call. No one goes into it in ignorance. We're all fallen creatures, God knows this when He calls these men to serve Him. Much time, usually years, is spent in discernment of the vocation. Is adultery an indication that the married state isn't valid? Should a man or woman who cheats on their spouse throw in the towel and divorce because their "failing" means they shouldn't be married? We all fail.
marge

Leesburg, GA

#407336 Dec 6, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
You WILL sin in the future. If the Holy Spirit is guiding you and it is impossible for you to fail to repent, how can the Holy Spirit also be guiding you to sin in the first place?
You are not a puppet. You have free will. You can be both guided by the Holy Spirit AND also reject the Holy Spirit's guidance.
Yet we have these promises;

Heb 10:10,14

10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Phil 1:6
6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
4GVN

Saint Louis, MO

#407337 Dec 6, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
It certainly is a choice. A man or woman, individually, makes a conscious choice to forego marriage and devote their lives entirely to God. In the case of protestant converts, the Church recognizes that we cannot break the marriage bond that already exists. If they take their vows while BEFORE marriage, they cannot later get married.
There is NO CHOICE if the requirements are mandated by the church. One cannot CHOOSE to get married and be a priest. The choice is legislated by the church. Christ never mandated such a restriction. Should we go beond what Christ required? And would there have been all of the pedifilia in the church if this requirement had not been mandated? Did the mandate produce a blessing or a curse?
Free Mind

Eaton Park, FL

#407338 Dec 6, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Clay says....
1) It checks out by independent non-Christian historians.
2) Sola Scripture is a foreign concept and is not what Christ wished for.
Michael says....
1) What non-christian historians? No one at anytime from 7BCE to 30AD said a peep about a son of God, miracle man Jesus. Why?
2) If there was a Christ, how do you know what he wished for? Were you there to witness this wish?
Its all just conjecture, and wishful thinking on your behalf. It was all taught to you, when you were born by CHANCE into your belief system.
BUSTED!
I agree. Where are these "independent source" the poster refers to?

It all sounds so dreamy, until you get into the actual specifics, then the entire thing blows up, which is why we are called names.

They have no other retort when they try to turn faith into fact.

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